{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/z60bv7bs8r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Debby Yaffe Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eDebby Yaffe was one of the youngest members of the Student Help Project who volunteered to go to Prince Edward County, Virginia, in the summer of 1963 to tutor local Black children who were denied a public education for four years in massive resistance to the desegregation of schools. Yaffe contributes her memories of organizing and preparing for the summer initiative. In Prince Edward County, Yaffe served as the librarian of the Queens College group, rather than as a tutor, which she had to divide donated books between the six different tutoring sites within the town that summer so that each site was adequately equipped with learning resources. She also provides further insight about racist and antagonistic incidents the group encountered in Farmville that have been mentioned in previous interviews\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/40433"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2021-03-26 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Tags"]},"value":{"en":["Queens College Alumni"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Debby Yaffe (Interviewee)","Victoria Fernandez (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College “Student Help: Lived Experience” Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1954-1967 (temporal)","Queens College, Queens, NY; Prince Edward County and Farmville, VA (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eDebby Yaffe was one of the youngest members of the Student Help Project who volunteered to go to Prince Edward County, Virginia, in the summer of 1963 to tutor local Black children who were denied a public education for four years in massive resistance to the desegregation of schools. Yaffe contributes her memories of organizing and preparing for the summer initiative. In Prince Edward County, Yaffe served as the librarian of the Queens College group, rather than as a tutor, which she had to divide donated books between the six different tutoring sites within the town that summer so that each site was adequately equipped with learning resources. She also provides further insight about racist and antagonistic incidents the group encountered in Farmville that have been mentioned in previous interviews\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/118/963/small/Yaffe-Debby-aviary.png?1625648958","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - SHPInterview_DYaffe_VFernandez_03262021_EDIT2.mp3"]},"duration":6960.45714,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/118/963/small/Yaffe-Debby-aviary.png?1625648958","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/118/963/original/SHPInterview_DYaffe_VFernandez_03262021_EDIT2.mp3?1625236035","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":6960.45714,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay, so we're recording now. I'm Victoria Fernandez. I'm the 2020-2021 Freda S. and J. Chester Johnson Civil Rights and Social Justice Archives Fellow at the Queens College Library. And I'm here with Debby Yaffe. Debby, if you'd like to introduce yourself? Debby?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=0.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=22.0,24.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, that's okay. If you'd like to introduce yourself.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=24.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Oh well, as I— as you said, my name is Debby Yaffe. I was part of the Virginia-Jamaica Student Help Project. And I should say I was seventeen years old at the time. It was the formative experience of my life. I mean, that's the only way I can put it. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=26.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. So, like you mentioned, we are going to be talking today about the work of and the activities of Queens College students who were active in the Civil Rights Movement. More specifically, the work of the Student Help Project in both Virginia and Jamaica. And Debby, you as one of the students who participated. So just to, just to put this out there today is Friday, March 26, 2021. And we are recording this interview using Zoom. We're doing an audio interview and this is being recorded for Queens College Special Collections and Archives, along with the Queens Memory Project. To begin Debby, I would like to ask you a little bit about your background. Where did you grow up and how would you describe your neighborhood?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=51.0,100.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Well, I grew up in Brooklyn all the way out on the eastern part on Jamaica Bay in that neighborhood called Canarsie, which was very much a totally residential area. You know, the kind of area, the kind of neighborhood where you knew everybody on the block. And— all the children, all the mothers and fathers. I went to high school in Brooklyn and, but my graduating average was, they needed eighty-five for me to go to Brooklyn College, 85 average. And I was just below, I was eighty-four or something. And at that time, this is the fall of 1962, each city college had to accept certain students from other boroughs who were right, like me, right there on the edge. So actually I was assigned to Queens College. So for my whole freshman year, I commuted all the way from all the way out in Brooklyn to Queens College. And, but it was okay because in my sophomore year, my parents were planning to move to Queens anyway. So it really worked out very well.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=100.0,177.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And where did you end up moving to?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=177.0,181.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Rochdale Village. It's— trying to think what we would call the neighborhood. Do you know, I don't remember. It's near Saint Alban's. It's near— I don't remember what we called the neighborhood. I really don't. Cause we moved in in 19— Yeah. We moved in '64. But anyway, Rochdale Village was a development of twenty, about twenty thousand people in twenty buildings and it was meant to be an integrated community. And we were, I guess about, maybe less than a half hour bus ride to Jamaica, to the, you know, Jamaica subway station on Jamaica Avenue. For the life of me \n[crosstalk]—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=181.0,237.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Was Rochdale integrated as you say it was? Was it actually? I've spoken with some other people and they're like, you know, we grew up thinking that it was an integrated community and looking back it, you know, it was two thirds white.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=237.0,248.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: It was not. No, it, it very definitely w— was not. You know, with twenty thousand people it's hard to know, but walking around, I can't remember. Maybe I saw one Black family, maybe. The thing that made it may be unusual is we were in the middle of a Black community. There was Ozone Park was to our— on one side. Saint Albans was on the other side. So we were kind of plunked down in the middle of a, an area that was filled with neighborhoods of African-American people all around us. It became a little bit more integrated probably in the later sixties. No, I moved out in 1967 and moved into Manhattan, but probably around that time or a little bit earlier. It became a little, I can remember it being a little bit more integrated. But it certainly wasn't, it didn't fulfill what it was trying to do.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=248.0,316.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right. And it was that the same case when you were growing up in Brooklyn?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=316.0,320.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Brooklyn was completely restricted. I mean, I can't remember ever seeing a Black child in a public elementary school or junior high school. In high school, what they did was— it still makes me angry. Every Black child who was scheduled to, you know, start high school that, it was Tilden High School, was immediately put into a commercial track and all the white kids were put into an academic track. And so until I saw my yearbook, I didn't even know there were Black kids in the school.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=320.0,363.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Wow.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=363.0,364.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. Except for one, we had one star football player, everybody knew who he was. He was a big deal in the school, you know, football team, competitions and everything. But seriously, it still makes me angry that the— it's, it was a lost generation of, of, of people because they were never given a chance to be in the academic, you know, the academic track.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=364.0,391.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right. So, so that's to say that they— were they doing like vocational classes? You, you didn't see them in your own time?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=391.0,398.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, no. I, as I said, I didn't know until I looked at my yearbook that, that there were Black kids in the school. I don't know, I don't know how they managed it, but we never saw any Black kids.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=398.0,412.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. And what high school again was this?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=412.0,412.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I'm sorry?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=412.0,412.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: What high school?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=412.0,412.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Tilden, T I L D— T, T I L D E N.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=412.0,419.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Thank you. And so this, this question might seem a little irrelevant but I'm interested to know if you've ever, while you were growing up, if you witnessed aside from, from what you just explained, social injustice, outward displays of racism? Any incident that you felt, you know, like this is blatantly wrong and that you should be an agent of social change?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=419.0,445.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Not really. I should tell you something about my background because I have a family. My mother's side of the family is very un— we call it a United Nations. We have a lot of, ma— many of my mother's, one of my mother's sisters and many of her cousins were intermarriages. So we had, I had an uncle who was Chinese. One cousin married a Korean woman, one cousin married a Cuban woman, you know, Cuban refugee. One ita— we had one cousin married an Italian man. I'm sure I'm probably forgetting people. Somebody married somebody from Puerto Rico, a Puerto Rican. And then somebody else married a Puerto Rican.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=445.0,494.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: So growing up, I just took it for granted that this is the way the world operated cause that's, that's all I knew from my family. But I'm trying to think back, because— you know, it, it's just— no, I mean, it was a totally, now we're calling it white privilege, but it was a totally white community. And as I say, Tilden seemed to be totally white, but because of my family, I was very aware of, you know, people of other races and other nationalities.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=494.0,539.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And did these family members also live near you in New York or were they from, were they elsewhere?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=539.0,545.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, every, every— at this time everybody still lived in New York and we were close with all, we were close with everybody. I mean, these were people we knew and visited, and they visited us. And I was very close to my uncle who was Chinese because my, my cousin, his daughter and I are about the same age and we were very close. And so it was almost like— and, and my mother and her sister were very close. So it was almost like the two families were one family. So I was very close to my, my uncle who was Chinese, was almost like a second father.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=545.0,582.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And so I do want to ask about your parents. Were, were they born in America? What were their political views? Were you influenced by them in any way?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=582.0,595.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: My mother was born in— well, at that time it was the Ukraine, but she came here with the family when she was four years old. My father was born here. My father's story is a little bit longer. My father's parents and the people they knew were anarchists in about 1905, in Russia. This was all in Belarus.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=595.0,629.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=629.0,629.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I mean, I say Russia, but it was Belarus. My grandfather had been thrown into jail for whatever activities and the women in the group, they wanted to get him out of Belarus to the United States so he could get a medical degree and come back as a doctor. And women had— so somebody had to marry him, you know, get him out of the country and then marry him to get him into the U.S. My, the women of the group drew straws, my grandmother drew the short straw and she— this is the way we got the story.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=629.0,671.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: She smuggled him in, to jail a priest's uniform. And so they were able to get out. And he went to Canada to live with his sister who was already living there. And my grandmother came to the U.S. where she had relatives to become a cit— to be naturalized. And we're not quite sure— what we always thought was, cause they were married as soon as she was naturalized, but they were married in Canada and then came to Chicago, live in Chicago so he could go to the medical school in Chicago. Well, not sure about the naturalization paper, but they were both American citizens by the time he graduated as a doctor in 1917 from Chicago Medical School.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=671.0,726.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay. We— so this is, this is, this is June 1917 and things were going on, obviously, in Russia, you know, with the revolution, you know, it starting up. They went back, they— we always thought, my sister and I always thought that they probably would have stayed here, except a relative of his wrote telling them what was going on about the revolution. So they went back. Well, first of all, I'm sorry, first they came to New York for my grandfather to do his residency in what was Saint Vincent's Hospital at the time. And my father was born here in, in 1911. So in 1917, dragging this six, seven year old kid, they went back to Russia. And they were on a hospital train because my grandfather was a doctor and my grandmother had nursing skills and whatever. And my poor father had to tread along with that. After I'd say about, after about 1920, my grandmother decided she did not want to have my father grow up in Russia so they separated. I mean, it was never a love marriage. I mean, it was a political marriage. So my grandmother came back here to New York with my father and left my grandfather in, in Russia.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=726.0,822.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=822.0,831.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Well, no. There's more. My grandfather was an idealist and he had, his English was very, very good. My sister and I have letters that he wrote to my father. He ended up being killed in the Stalinist purges in the late 1930s, my grandfather. As far as political atti— attitudes or interests, we have— well, they were communist. They were, they were communist in name more than anything else, I mean, not, not very active. But I was sent to a camp called Camp Kinderland, which was known as a camp that was run by communists. Except it was— what they did was they had more of a Jewish culture that we learned. And then we learned the kind of one-world way of looking at the world, or having a worldview of everybody's the same under the skin. And that's the first time that we had one Black girl who a, a, actually in my, in my group at camp and she was having trouble with her period. I was there from eleven, twelve, eleven years. Eleven, twelve, and thirteen. She was having trouble with her period. And I saw her being taken care of very, very well by the counselors. And that was, that made an impression on me, very, very very strongly that the way she was being taken care of. And I, I was— I, I've always remembered that because that was my first \n[unclear] look at a Black person and white person and interacting.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=831.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: In the mid-fifties?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=942.0,944.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. It was, it would have been about '57 probably.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=944.0,950.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=950.0,950.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. And so, you know. So we learned if we played base— a softball game, one team was, teams were from each country and we, you know, w— we, we were being fed the feeling and I believe in it that everybody's the same under the skin. We didn't have overt communist propaganda or anything, but it was, you know, it was kind of— the message was there, but, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't said we are communists. It was, it was just the ideas, the ideals of being, of justice and being aware of other people who were different and, and, but knowing they were just different, you know, on the skin, they were the same underneath. I, we were taught, I think, very good values in terms of, you know, in terms of justice and equality. And that made a great impression on me.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=950.0,1035.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: That's fascinating. Can you just say the name of the camp again?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1035.0,1038.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Kinderland, K I N D E R L A N D E.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1038.0,1044.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And so I'm assuming that your parents, they supported this kind of view of equality, of all around, you know, racial, racial justice, if they did send you to that camp? Or did they not know?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1044.0,1058.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Oh, no. They knew. No, very definitely. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1058.0,1061.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nNew Speaker: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1061.0,1062.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: But of course, even at the camp, there was only this one Black girl. And just actually, I forgot. In my family, even though we called ourselves the United Nations, one cousin married a Black man, and she was forced to annul the marriage. So the family talked the talk, but they didn't walk the walk. You know, that kind of thing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1062.0,1090.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. United Nations with an exception.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1090.0,1093.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I'm sorry?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1093.0,1094.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nNew Speaker: I said United Nations with an exception.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1094.0,1097.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. I mean, that every— all the other different nationalities were fine, but not the Black man.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1097.0,1103.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. All right. So we'll, we'll shift a little to Queens College. You mentioned before how you, how you managed to, to enroll at Queens College rather than Brooklyn. So can you describe your campus experience? What was it like at the time? What activities other than the Student Help Project were you a part of?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1103.0,1126.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I always say I majored in shouting. My first, the first thing I remember is being approached by the head of the Student Government who was Mark Levy. I don't know if you're familiar? You're probably familiar with his name.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1126.0,1142.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes, yes. Mark has contributed to this project. We, we had some interviews with him and he's, he's a \n[unclear].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1142.0,1150.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, I mean, he, he basically got, you know, got it started. I was approached by him very early because there was going to be a protest in the cafeteria against the really horrendous meals. So this is all I remember from my freshman year. First, we had the protests in the cafeteria, then I remember we had the protest in library cause girls were not allowed to wear pants. So all I remember about the first few months was, was, was protesting. I honestly don't even remember my classes that much.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1150.0,1188.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nNew Speaker: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1188.0,1188.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. So as I say, I was not, never that great, I was never that great a student. So these activities were more important to me than the classes, actually.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1188.0,1203.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. And did you support, support these protests that you were joining in your freshman year? Or did you kind of just go along because it was the general consensus at Queens?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1203.0,1214.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Oh, no. I— no, I supported it cause— Oh right, I forgot one— My whole family on both sides were union members and very, very, very vocally active union members. So to go on a protest to me was sure, I mean, that's what, that's what people do.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1214.0,1234.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, yeah. Like second nature. Yeah. Sure. Okay. And were you a part of any other clubs? Did you yourself get involved in Student Government?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1234.0,1245.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, not really. The, I, I guess it was the last weekend in October, they took a group of us up to a mountain retreat for a weekend. They were, they were trying to make us, you know, lea— it was a leadership weekend. They would try to, to identify people who would be campus leaders. And so we spent the weekend talk— I don't remember what actually what we did, but that was the point of the weekend. And that was the last weekend in October. That's about the only other thing I remember from, you know, before I started with the CORE. I joined the CORE chapter, you know, the Council \n[Congress] of Racial Equality, which is, we were the chapter that— we did the, the Virginia project was a CORE summer project. So, so really CORE would have been my first group that I joined.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1245.0,1319.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Did you hold any leadership positions in CORE or you were just a member?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1319.0,1324.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Just a member. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1324.0,1325.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay, sure. So you, you hinted at it and I'm going to pose it in a formal question. How did you get involved in the Student Help Project?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1325.0,1337.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. One of the people at that leadership weekend in October was Carolyn Hubbard. You probably have her name?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1337.0,1346.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1346.0,1346.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. So I met her at that leadership weekend and, you know, we remained friends. And somewhere in the spring, I ran into her and she said \"There's this project starting. You might want to go talk to the faculty instructor who's— the faculty advisor for the project,\" who was Dr. Rachel Weddington. And I'm sure you have her name.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1346.0,1375.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1375.0,1376.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. So I walked— I can remember, I walked into Dr. Weddington, his office and I said, \"Carolyn Hubbard said I should talk to you.\" And the next thing I knew, I was part of the Virginia-Jamaica Student Help Projects. And you know, I met with, you know, met with the other students. We were— I know I'm saying things you probably know, but the number of people who tutored in Jamaica was, was fairly large because what they, as I understand it, what was happening was they were looking to see who was doing what in Jamaica and people for Virginia were identified as people who might be good for the Virginia project. And I was one of those people.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1376.0,1427.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. So that also leads me to kind of ask a one-off question. How many people that were part of this fall retreat in October ended up being part of the Student Help Project? If you can remember.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1427.0,1441.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Only, only Carolyn.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1441.0,1443.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1443.0,1443.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1443.0,1445.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And just to put it out there, Carolyn Hubbard was the only Black woman who joined the cohort down to Virginia in a, in a very small, diverse Queens College. Everybody points that out. So I think this is a good, a good segue into talking about the Virginia project as a whole. And the first question I want to pose in terms of that is how did CORE support the summer initiative?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1445.0,1477.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Oh, boy. I— you'd have to talk to— I don't know. I mean, the people who would know would have been Lenny Hausman, Mike Wenger, Stan Shaw. They were the ones who were, who were the leaders of the project. And Marjorie Sulkas, who I think has died. I don't think she's still alive. But Mike, Stan, and Lenny are the people who would know the ins and outs of how the whole thing was, was structured and worked and, and put together.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1477.0,1512.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. No, I asked— I know other people have mentioned the CORE chapter and how that came from, I think, the NAACP one at Queens. So I was just curious if you had any, anything else to add in terms of that. But that's fine, definitely. We have conversations with Mike, Stan, and Lenny. So, so if anybody were trying to look for those kinds of details, they could find them there. So before you head down to Virginia, what activities were organized or did you participate in to fundraise for the summer?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1512.0,1546.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Well, okay. We had we had the benefit. Do you know about the benefit concert that we had?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1546.0,1557.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes, with Dick Gregory at Carnegie Hall. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1557.0,1557.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. And Dick Gregory didn't show up. Yeah, we had that. And we each did individual fundraising with, you know, groups of people that, you know, we thought might, might help. And Carolyn was, again, was the fundraiser. She was incredible at getting fun— you know, in raising funds for the group. I don't remember what anybody else did. I just remember her, her activities and how good she was at getting money for the group. I don't remember, I don't remember doing any great amount of fundraising except maybe with my family or a friend, you know, friends of the family.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1557.0,1604.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And I know I sent this question to you while we corresponded over email before this. There was a book drive that happened and knowing that you, you ha— you played a role as librarian down for the Prince Edward County initiative. How did your role come to be? Was that because of the book drive? What do you remember of the book drive? Things like that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1604.0,1629.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I don't remember it at all. Okay, how I became the librarian? I lived in libraries in elementary school. Every Saturday morning, I would be in the library and I always understood what, how the librarians were working just instinctively. I, when I saw my first catalog card in the catalog, you know, the catalog card drawers. When I saw the first one, I understood what they would doing. There's a library term, it's called fields. So you have a field for the author name and you have a field for the title, and a fields for the publisher's name. And then you have what are called scope notes on the card that the cataloger would put in interesting things that you might want to know that there are maps in the book or, or something else like that. And the first time I saw a catalog card, I understood what that was about.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1629.0,1701.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I understood the background or the, you know, the underpinning of how the card was being put together. And I didn't realize I understood that. I just, I just did. That would have been probably in high school, I guess. I remember walking around the 42nd Street library, you know the big one, and thinking to myself about what it would be like to work there. And this was before Virginia, before I even thought about it. So when we got donations of, two truckloads, very, very large trucks, of books for the project, for Virginia, I sat down with them and I knew instinctively, you had, I had to divide them into groups. Because we had six tutoring centers, I had to divide them into six, balanced collections.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1701.0,1758.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1758.0,1758.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And I just knew that instinctively. And so I spent quite a long time, quite a number of weeks, you know, organizing that. When we got down to Virginia, the books came just piled into the trucks like, you know, without being organized. So my tutoring experience was only the first week. In— I don't know if you know, the, if you've been told the names of the different centers. I was out in, what's called Hampden Sydney. And as I said, I was seventeen years old and I was terrified. I had no idea, you know, how to do this.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1758.0,1803.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I think, though, I must have been better than I thought, because at the end of the first week, two little— I must have— no, wait a minute. I must have been there, I must have been there at least two weeks because I tan very, very, I have Mediterranean, you know, blood so I tan very quickly. And it was an extremely hot summers so I had tanned very quickly. And two little girls, two of the little girls in the class, that's I don't know, six or seven years old, came over to me, very politely. You know, \"Missy Yaffe, we wanted to know, are you Black or are you white?\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1803.0,1842.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And, you know, it was just, as I said. So I must've been tutoring more than I remember, actually. I couldn't have gotten that tan in one week. And they were so adorable, I have to tell you. But I remember being absolutely terrified. I have no memory of what I did. I must, I must have been doing something, you know, I must've been all right. But, but because the parents were aware of me and two par— two mothers came up to me one, one afternoon and asked if I would come out to the house, their house for dinner. So I must've been doing okay, I just don't remember it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1842.0,1886.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And what I am ashamed to say is, I, I said I couldn't come because they were out, they were on the farms, you know, out in the countryside. And I was scared, quite honestly, you know, that, that, you know, that I might run into some, you know, white vigilantes. And I'm so ashamed of myself that I did that. I can't tell you. So I must've been doing something with the kids. Do you know about the agreement that we had about being protected and all that?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1886.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I've, I've heard about it before. I think, I forget who, but they did mention that you did have some sort of security while you were down there. But please, elaborate on that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1920.0,1931.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay. As— again, everything is as I understand it. Dr. Weddington and I think Lenny Hausman went down in probably April or May and spoke with the mayor of the town and the publisher of the newspaper who was a rabid, they were, you know, rabid segregationists. And spoke with whoever else they needed to talk to and the agreement was if the teenagers in the town were having a boycott of the stores, you know, down, the downtown stores in Farmville. And it was agreed if we did not take part in any of the teenagers' activities and just stuck to tutoring the children, then we would be protected.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1931.0,1988.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And actually the newspaper editor wrote an editorial calling us their Peace Corps, you know, because we would, you know, we were coming— you know, you know, the Peace Corps?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=1988.0,2003.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2003.0,2004.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. Okay. So say he actually wrote an editorial about us saying that we were their Peace Corps. In other words, to tell the white citizens, you know, leave them alone. You may have heard about the Dairy Freeze episode? Have you heard—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2004.0,2021.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2021.0,2021.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And we can't remember if it was Dairy Freezer or Tastee Freez. Now I was not part of it, but that was the only time that there was ever any, any trouble.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2021.0,2034.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I just want to— sorry, I don't mean to cut you off. I just want to mention that others have called it the Dairy Queen incident. Same, same thing, but if anybody ends up listening to this in the future and they want to, they want to kind of cross-reference it that with, with some of the other interviews, that's how they can find it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2034.0,2052.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay. Because we, we, we have gone back and forth over the years. But the people who were there even don't remember if it was dairy, the Dairy Queen or Tastee Freez. But it's probably was Dairy Queen. Whatever it was, it was, it was very frightening to the, you know, the people who were there. And they can tell you about that experience because I, I didn't know anything about it actually until afterwards.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2052.0,2082.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I'll tell you about one, one thing that sticks in my mind, and then we'll go back to what happened in the project. About the fourth week— we were there six weeks. So about the fourth week, we're New Yorkers, we decided we wanted something related to New York, we were getting homesick for New York or, you know, feeling like we were, you know, in a totally different country actually. So we decided to go into Richmond to find the Chinese restaurant, because that would be, that would be a New York thing to do.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2082.0,2114.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And we were eleven, eleven of us. And we came into the first Chinese restaurant and it was empty. And the owner was, you know, glad to see this huge group of people coming in, except that Carolyn was the last person on the line. And as we came in, all of a sudden the owners saw Carolyn and all the tables were reserved. So we, we couldn't stay, you know, we couldn't, we couldn't get a meal there. We went to another restaurant, another Chinese restaurant and the owner came over and said, \"Oh, we know who you are, you're outside agitators,\" you know. \"Please go away.\" We ended up in a shopping center that had a huge cafeteria.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2114.0,2169.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And the police came in and they— very nicely, very politely and said they would like to escort us out of town to protect us. That, you know, we shouldn't have any trouble. And me being innocent, I though oh, how nice of them. And I think probably I was about forty before I realized they were getting us out of town because, you know, they were being polite to us, pretending they were trying to protect us, but I didn't realize 'til much, much later that actually, they were getting us out of town as outside agitators. But they were polite. I mean, it was perfectly fine. But that, that's the one big episode, the only episode that I remember, because I wasn't part of the Dairy Queen thing. That's the only episode I remember of any trouble that we had. And you know, about the UFT teachers that were part of our group?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2169.0,2231.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right. There were some that also went down. It wasn't just you guys in Virginia.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2231.0,2235.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. One of— we learned much later one, of the teachers was a Black man and he decided to go drive off by himself in the countryside one night. And he learn— we learned much later when we, I think a year or two later or at least after we came back, that he had been attacked and, you know, taken out of the car and beaten up and whatever. But we didn't know that until much, until much later.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2235.0,2271.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I just want to backtrack a little bit. A few things that you mentioned I've been jotting down that I, that I definitely think should be talked about a little bit more. And I'm going to ask you to, to hypothesize or make an assumption for this question. When you were in the Chinese restaurants, did they not want you there because they were racist against Carolyn? Wa— was it because they, they were afraid of trouble themselves if they were to seat a Black person in the group? W— is, you know \n[crosstalk]—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2271.0,2306.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, I think it was totally, it was a totally racist reaction. They would not seat an integrated, I mean, an integrated group.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2306.0,2317.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, I don't \n[crosstalk]—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2317.0,2317.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I mean, I don't think they were worried about— you know, that second Chinese restaurant sounded, the owner sounded more afraid that, you know, that, because we were outside, quote unquote \"outside agitators.\" But it was definitely racist. I mean, I don't know if you remember the, the lunch counter problems? You know, with the, the students who tried to sit down at the lunch counters? It was that kind of attitude.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2317.0,2347.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And I, I wanted to go back cause I, I, I jotted this down before we even got on the call and you mentioned it before, you said that you divided books based on locations and sites. I've, I haven't heard anybody mention— so you said there were six different sites? Can you just elaborate a little bit more on that?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2347.0,2367.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. In Farmville itself, we had two centers. One was in the First Baptist, you know, Reverend Griffin's First Baptist Church. And the other was right across the street in the African Methodist, AME, African Methodist Episcopal Church which was, the pastor was Reverend Douglas who was very, very young, very active. He w— he was he was helping the teenagers a lot, you know, with the boycott. And he was, you know, he w— he, he, he was very interested in what we were doing and, and, and, and, and we had a very nice relationship with him.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2367.0,2419.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Reverend Griffin was a little bit unapproachable, kind of. He was he was like Mount Rushmore. I mean, he, he was very strong, silent kind of person. He was not really that approachable. But Reverend Douglas was totally approachable and we had, we enjoyed being with him. So those are the two in Farmville. And, okay, so I was in Hampden Sydney, and I don't remember where the others— I remembered as six centers all together. Then you know, the four, the other four would have been within a car ride, you know, out into the countryside, where the farms were.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2419.0,2467.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. And who were you with? Were you with anybody from Queens College in Hampden Sydney?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2467.0,2473.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, no. I was there by myself, as far as— No, I was there by myself.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2473.0,2479.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2479.0,2479.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I think it must have been a very young, must've been like a kindergarten class, so they didn't think that you know, they would need more than, you know, like one person. Probably, it was probably a very small kindergarten class that would only be one person. But I'll tell you my experience. The first day we got up and running, we started trying to register the kids. And the first little boy who came, you know, to my— the first little boy that I was trying to register, he had such a thick country accent. I didn't understand what he was saying. And I was totally in panic. You know, because, you know, I w— I wanted to do a good job, but I just couldn't understand what he was saying.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2479.0,2536.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And in one of the newspaper, you know, newspaper reporters were down with us. And one reporter put it this way that I didn't understand his thick Southern accent and he didn't, he did not understand my rat-a-tat-tat Brooklyn accent, which I did not appreciate. But no, but it was, I was just panicked. It was just, it was just scary. Scary because I wanted to do a good job. I don't remember what happened after that, if I worked with, you know, if I tried to register other children or I tried to do something else, but I just remember that poor one, poor little boy, and we just could not communicate.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2536.0,2582.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I also think it's, it's— we do have to mention that you were the youngest one in the group. You were only seventeen in the summer of '63 and you had, you had started at Queens the year before that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2582.0,2594.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2594.0,2594.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: So in, in what way— maybe it was your age, maybe it was other factors. What kind of assumptions, and fears, anxieties, expectations did you have before even going down to Prince Edward?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2594.0,2607.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Before I answer that, I should also, I should say Mark Blumberg, who was part of the group was also seventeen. But you know when you're seventeen, you don't think about those things. You just think, you know, you just think, \"Oh, sure, okay, sure. I'm going to do this.\" You, you don't think about anxieties and fears and whatever. One thing that prepared me for it a little bit was we went down on a Greyhound, or my group of about four or five of us went down on a Greyhound, and when we got to Maryland there was only one seat open and was next to a Black woman. And there was one man who wanted to, you know, get on the bus. And when he saw he would have had to sit next to a Black woman, he wouldn't get on the bus.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2607.0,2656.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And so that sort of told me, you know, like where we were. And I have relatives in Maryland. We used to go down everything Thanksgiving and I can remember, you know, going into restaurants on the way and seeing the sign, \"We reserve the right to serve who,\" you know, \"whoever we want.\" You know, that sign that they would put up. And I remember talking about that with my parents you know, and they were explaining to me what that was all about. But that would have been when I was a kid.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2656.0,2692.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right. But it's still bears, you know, keeping in mind that this, the reality in the South, it was much more overt, much more visible than, you know, the sort of like quiet racism of the North, you know, living in New York.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2692.0,2709.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2709.0,2709.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I think everybody kind of, kind of points to that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2709.0,2712.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. I think I thought I was going down to do one very specific thing. I wasn't all that aware of what was going on with the Freedom Riders and the lunch counter sit-ins and all of that. Maybe I was, I don't remember being aware of the violence that was going on, you know, with the, in Mississippi and Alabama and all the rest of that. So I just thought I, I thought I was going down to do something that, you know, I wanted to do. And I don't, I don't think I had any anxieties about the racial aspect of it or, or danger aspect of it, because at seventeen, you don't. I mean, I don't know, I don't know how the other guys felt, but at seventeen, you simply think, \"Oh, sure. Fine. Why not?\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2712.0,2770.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. Yeah, I haven't heard of Mark Blumberg that you mentioned, so thank you. Cause that's a, that's a name that we should also include in the project. But I know Mike Wenger mentioned, I think he was nineteen and he's like, you're young, you're kind of totally ignorant, but with a steadfast ambition. Like I'm going to go down there, I'm going to teach, not really understanding what's happening around you guys.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2770.0,2795.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. Yeah. That was the way. I, I'm surprised that he said that that's an older kid, but I thought it was only me because I was seventeen, but yeah. But also part of it was that we knew that there was this agreement that we would be protected. So I think that had also contributed to our not being anxious.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2795.0,2818.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right. So thinking about this, how did your parents feel that you were going down to the South?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2818.0,2826.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Oh. My parents, my parents were not very vocal about what they— I'm sure they were terrified, but they, they just said, \"Okay, fine.\" But the only reason I, they allowed me to go was because Jean Konzal, Jean, Jean Stein?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2826.0,2847.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2847.0,2847.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. Jeanie and I are cousins. Jeanie's my older cousin. And the only reason I was actually allowed to go, my parents felt, because I was going with my older cousin. Then my mother had this idea, which was probably an immigrant idea that if you're with relatives, nothing can happen to you.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2847.0,2869.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2869.0,2869.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: So I would not have been allowed to go if Jeanie was not going. You know, if Jeanie was not part of the group, I wouldn't have been allowed to go.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2869.0,2877.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, okay. And we also, we also spoke with Jean. I spoke with Jean a few months ago so her experiences will also be part of the, part of the project, one of the interviews. So that's great. Yeah. I, I want to, I want to talk a little bit more specifically about how, how did you prepare, how did the group prepare not only to go down and tutor, but maybe to be in sort of, you know, a different cultural world?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2877.0,2906.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay. You know, the names of our two faculty advisors, I'm sure. Rachel Weddington and Sid Simon?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2906.0,2913.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2913.0,2913.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: We had— I can remember them. We would go out, especially to Sid's house. He would invite the whole group out for the day and we would do role-playing. Very rigorous role-playing. They made sure we were prepared for any, you know, what would you do in this kind of situation? What would you do, you know, if this happened? What would you do? You know, they made sure that we did a lot of role-playing, discussion about, you know, what we might find down there. The one part of it I remember is a lot of the role-playing. You know, one person would be an angry white person and we would be, you know, how would we talk to them if we, if we came, came into contact with them. That kind of thing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2913.0,2963.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I'm sure we had discussions or lessons, I would have to say, on how to tutor children or, or what to look for in, be aware of the children, if one kid had a problem or, you know, to be aware of, of the children. Quite honestly, I don't remember. All I remember was the role-playing in Sid's house, out in long— out in Long Beach. He was at a house on the beach. But I remember it being a very rigorous preparation between Sid and Rachel. We felt very, you know, that they were almost like our parents in a sense. And they were preparing us quite, quite well.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=2963.0,3025.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And, and did you feel that these role-plays were useful when you had incidents such as the one in the ice cream shop and the Chinese food restaurant?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3025.0,3039.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I didn't hear the beginning of that sentence. I'm sorry.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3039.0,3042.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Did you feel that these roles, role-plays were, were useful when you actually had those, those incidents down in Farmville?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3042.0,3049.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: It must have been, but I don't think we made that connection. Again, I, the people who were involved in the Dairy Queen thing, I think, would be able to answer that, you know, a lot better. I know the Chinese restaurant thing to me just seemed well, that's the way they are and what can you do about it? You know, there was just nothing to do about it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3049.0,3075.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. Okay. And so— Yeah?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3075.0,3078.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Phyllis— Have you talked to Phyllis Padow?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3078.0,3082.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: We are in the midst of trying to schedule an interview with Phyllis, so.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3082.0,3087.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Oh God, they're doing drilling outside. Ask her about the— there was something I didn't know about, but she talked about couple of years ago that she went with Rachel Weddington and Rachel had to buy a bathing suit. And there was something when she went with Rachel to buy a bathing suit in Richmond, I don't know exactly what happened, but she, you know, she talked about the bathing suit incident. So you might ask her about that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3087.0,3112.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh yeah. I'm jotting it down. Definitely going to bring that up. Sure. Okay. Sorry, I'm writing, I'm writing and talking at the same time. That's why I stopped for a second. So I, I wanted to, to be a little more specific about what your involvement every day in Farmville was like. You said, you, you most likely tutored for two weeks and then what were you involved in? How did you engage with the students in, for the rest of the summer?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3112.0,3145.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Do you know? I, I don't remember. And we all had a long round— Oh God, the drilling, so try to just speak a little bit louder. We all were talking about this on a— we had a round-robin discussion. I think there were about seventy emails that went back and forth. We just started talking about memories a couple of years ago, and most of us said, we can't remember. We, we really can't remember what we did during the day. I can remember being in the basement of Reverend Griffin's church, the First Baptist Church, with the books, you know, organizing them again into six, balanced collections. I can remember doing that and I can remember getting the books on a truck and, you know, going out to the centers to deliver the books. And that's— I don't even remember what I did once we got to the center with the books.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3145.0,3203.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I mean, I must've done something. I mean, you know, I must have either talked about the books to the kids or, or I must've done something besides just, you know, drop off the books. I have no idea. And we were all talking about this. We have very little memory of what we actually did in, while we were tutoring, what we did with the kids. We remember more you know, the, the, the things that stand out. I remember the, our hostess— Oh God. They had been building, they tore down the brownstone that's to me three years ago, and then building a completely new house. And they've, they've been drilling for three years.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3203.0,3253.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh my goodness. Luckily I don't hear it. So I just hear you, which is great. There's no interruptions.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3253.0,3261.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: It's on, it's on and off. It's like a little bit, and then they stop, then a little bit more, then they stop. We don't, we just don't remember. I mean, I can remember talking with Mrs. Parker was my hostess, and I think Carolyn and I, and June Tauber were the three people who were staying with her. And I remember the marvelous meals that she served us. And I remember how, you know, just how lovely she was and that. And I can even remember what the house looked like, but we have, I don't remember what I did with the kids. And I know a lot of us were saying this.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3261.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, yeah. S— some others have shared the same sentiment, which is funny. But I mean, you know, what you remember, what you, what you cher— or like take with you after, after all these years, it's, it's understandable.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3300.0,3314.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: You know what I do remember, I remember very vividly in the evenings there was one family, I think it was Mrs. Reed, was housing Phyllis— I can tell you where a lot of people were staying. She was housing Phyllis, Donna, Jean, and Ina. And Mrs. Reed was, you know, very, very hospitable and so we would all congregate usually in her backyard in the evenings. And in the evenings, we would congregate with the teenagers. And I don't know how often we did this. I remember doing it a couple of times, at least, and we'd be singing freedom songs. And that's, it's very hard to explain it now, but— Oh God, the drilling. Alright, wait until they stop this. I'm on the other side, they once drilled right through my bookshelf.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3314.0,3378.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh my goodness.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3378.0,3378.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yes \n[laughter]. Anyway, I just remember the, the, we'd be sitting around the little bonfire in somebody's backyard and or maybe not a bonfire all the time, but— and singing was something that we all did all the time. Like when we went on day trips, like to mon— Monticello, Monticello, you know to see Jefferson's home and we went to other places, we'd sing in the car. That's what you did in the sixties. So we would be sitting around in the backyard at night singing freedom songs with the teenagers, besides talking about, you know, various things.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3378.0,3421.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And again, many years later, it dawned on me that if any white person had walked by and seen us with the teenagers singing the freedom songs, we could have been in a lot of trouble, but it didn't dawn on me. I had, I felt like I had no contact with the white community. I was not aware of the white community at all. I was, I felt totally immersed in the Black community and I just simply was not at all— you know, you see people on the street or whatever, but I didn't feel, I felt like there was a distinct line. And I was just not aware of, of the white people around. I was only aware of, of the Black community that I was in.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3421.0,3471.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. And when you say that you were with teenagers around a bonfire on most nights, those were, those were local Black teenagers in Farmville?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3471.0,3478.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. Those were the teenagers who were organizing the boy— the boycotts of the stores in, in town.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3478.0,3486.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right, okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3486.0,3486.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I mean, not all of them, but you know, the teenagers kind of, the Black teenagers kind of hung together also. Another thing I didn't learn until just recently, the elders of the Black community did not want the teenagers to be engaging in boycotts. You know, the, the idea of the, you know, the elders' idea always was to stay invisible. That's how you stayed out of trouble. And they were very upset that the teenagers, some of them were very upset that the teenagers were engaging in these very visible boycotts. And I just found out actually a couple years ago that the elders blamed us— the New York, Jewish, communist, God knows what, liberals, whatever— that we, we told the teenagers what to do. That, you know, we were the ones who instigated it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3486.0,3543.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: That's very interesting.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3543.0,3543.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. Yeah. I, I was told this by Skip Griffin, who is Reverend Griffin's son. So he would have known, you know, what was going on in the community. And—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3543.0,3556.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I spoke with— I don't mean to interrupt. I spoke with Skip a month ago in February and he, he didn't particularly mention that. And, and I think his perspective was more, you know, he had the support from his father because of who Reverend Griffin was just in the Civil Rights Movement. So it's, it's very interesting to hear you say that other aspect.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3556.0,3577.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. I don't know how we got onto that, but that, that I— that's what he told me. But the elders that we were, you know, being, who were hosting us or, you know, we were involved with never gave us any feeling except that they were very happy to have us. And they were very gracious and, and, and, you know, really you know, just nice, you know, nice to be with, lovely to be with.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3577.0,3606.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. Did, did the, the people you were staying with, Mrs. Parker perhaps, Mrs. Reed, did they sort of share their perspective on, on the fact that their students in the community were locked out of education? Did, did they sit down and talk to you about that? Tell you like—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3606.0,3625.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I don't know. I don't know about anybody else. I don't remember ever, ever doing that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3625.0,3634.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3634.0,3634.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I don't remember any, any of the adults that we met ever doing that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3634.0,3638.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. I just like to ask, you know. I, I've asked some others, to what extent did the students understand what they were going through. With Skip, that was very obvious, you know, he was, I think he was sixteen at the time, so he was well aware. Some others say that the students— sorry, I have a dog in the background. They say that the students, they understood, you know, why, why were you guys there helping them. So yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3638.0,3666.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Well, well, the ones I think, the ones that we always said who were most effected were like the eight- and nine-year old's, because the little kids were getting, didn't really know what was going on, the kindergarten, first grade kids. And the older kids who were, let's say high school age had already had some education. So, and of course, they were very aware of what was going on. But it was the eight or nine year old kids who really got hit the worst, because they would have been taken out of school in second grade or something like that. And they were embarrassed to meet us. We talked about this once among ourselves. Some of them were very embarrassed to meet us because they didn't know how to read and write. And they were embarrassed to show us that they didn't know how to read or write.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3666.0,3722.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And those were the kids that were totally heartbreaking. I mean, really. You know, again, it's totally lost generation. But I mean, that they should feel embarrassed to us was, was, was totally heartbreaking.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3722.0,3743.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3743.0,3745.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: The— I'm trying to think of if the teenagers were in classes along with the boycotts. That I don't remember at all. I don't, I don't know if they were or they weren't. I know some were.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3745.0,3765.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3765.0,3765.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And I remember— Mike might've spoken— I think Mike knew her. There was a girl named Mamie that— I think it was Mamie, that we gave a scholarship to. She came up north to go to nursing school, I think it was. So we were close with her. I don't know, Mamie was her name, but we were close with her or at least the guys were close, you know, I think Mike and Stan were close with her enough, you know, to support her.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3765.0,3796.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: But there was one girl that I always try to use as an example when I'm telling people about this. She was about fifteen and she lived on a farm and she would do all her farm chores and then she would sit and read philosophy, you know. And she was just a farm kid out in the, you know, boondocks. And I always try to use that as, you know, the example of, of, of, you know, you shouldn't stereotype these kids. Not you, but, you know, people in general shouldn't stereotype the, the kids at all.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3796.0,3835.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3835.0,3838.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: What else do I remember?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3838.0,3843.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I was going to ask if, if you had any particular relationships or, with a student with a particular student? Did you grow a friendship with any of them? I know you said you were, interacted with kindergartners, so a little bit young, but— Any anecdotes that you want to share maybe?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3843.0,3861.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: You know, I think I did, but I just can't remember. I mean, I think, I think some of, you know, some of the, maybe ten or eleven year old kids, some, some were around there. I think I did, but I don't know why, we've all drawn mental blocks on, on, on what we did. I remember more the interactions with the UFT teachers than I do with the kids.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3861.0,3889.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Can you, can you talk about that a little bit? I know some others were more focused on the fact that they were tutoring and we, we haven't really discussed the role of the UFT down there.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3889.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: You'll get different stories about this, but it was difficult because we approached them before, you know, before we went to ask if they wanted to join in and they worked it out so that a certain group of teachers were there on a two week rotation. So one group would be, you know, two weeks, they'd leave, another group would come. They seemed to feel that we were helping them because they were the, you know, licensed teachers and we should think of ourselves as, as you know, being in their category, which did not work out very well. There was some friction, there was friction with them, that I, I remember, you know, we talked about. We would have a meeting, our group would have a meeting, I think maybe every Sunday afternoon or Sunday morning, you know, to go over what had happened that week.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3900.0,3961.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And I can remember talking, you know, we were talking about the friction that was going on with the, with the UFT people because they, you know, they assumed they were the ones who were the experts and we would just college kids, and it did not, you know, didn't make for a very good relationship. Although we were very friendly with many of them. You know, not everybody had that attitude. I mean, there was some of them, some of the teachers who were, we were quite friendly with. The, the person actually, who I personally was the most friendly with was Richard Parrish.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=3961.0,4000.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4000.0,4003.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Do you know his name? Do you know who he was?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4003.0,4006.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: It sounds very familiar and I'm \n[unclear].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4006.0,4007.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay, yeah. He, he was I think one of the UFT directors, administrators, whatever, but he was the head of the UFT contingent. And somehow I became friendly with him and he used to call me his daughter. And I can remember standing on the street corner talking to him about something. And I don't, I don't know how that happened and all I remember is that one time when we were standing on the street talking, but I remember him calling me saying that I was his daughter or something. Now later, a couple of years ago when we were doing research for the, for the high school, you know, the museum down there— I'm a, I am a retired researcher, but even though I have an MLS \n[Master of Library Science] and I'm technically a librarian, but all my experience was as an online researcher in corporate libraries.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4007.0,4069.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: So I was doing research when we wanted to the help the museum with a project and I came across these UFT articles where he had died, Richard Parrish, Mrs. Parrish was saying that she was— the UFT were the ones who initiated the project and we came, we just came along to help them and it was their project. And it wasn't, that was not at all true and it drove me up a wall. But and I mean, that was in some of their, their, their newsletters and it just was not true at all. But, you know, what can you do? You know, it's quite a long time ago. I'm trying to think of anything else that was specific. Yeah, I remember the things that we felt that we learned, because I remember we sat around and had a discussion about how there were not— the band-aids used to be called flesh-colored band-aids, meaning white skin band-aids.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4069.0,4137.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And what we, what we sort of realized over the course of the summer is that was a, you know, misnomer. I mean, there was no flesh-colored band-aids was a— in terms of what we're talking about today, everybody, it was a white privilege kind of thing. So we learned that flesh colored band-aids were really, you know, that was not an appropriate name for them. Yeah, so we re— you know, we, we realized that, you know perception was a big issue here. I remember those were the two, those are the two big things that we learned or, you know, we, we realized.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4137.0,4187.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: God, I don't remember. Well, being down at the lake I mean, that was— being, you know, we would go down to the lake with the kids and it seemed to me, we were down there at least a couple of days a week, maybe one day a week, at least, maybe probably more. And, you know, the idea of there being, it being one lake and there being a Black side of the lake and a white side of the lake always struck us as being hysterically stupid.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4187.0,4220.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Is that true?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4220.0,4220.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4220.0,4220.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I know there are pictures of the lake and in Queens College's collections. A few with the, with the students and with the children. But nobody has spoken about the lake, so.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4220.0,4232.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. No, I mean, it was, it was the, they used the word colored then. It was the colored side of the lake and it was, the whole lake was very definitely segregated. I mean, it was— and we just, we just la— you know, we just thought that was so ridiculous.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4232.0,4247.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4247.0,4247.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: But I, it's funny, I think all of us remember the times down at the lake more than the classes, which is very strange. And then we had a big celebration, I think the last week we were there, we had a bit celebration down at the lake.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4247.0,4266.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And was that an afterschool activity or a weekend one that you went down there?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4266.0,4271.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, it would have been— I guess, I guess it would have been, yeah, it would've been an afternoon. I mean, I can't remember when the tutoring sessions would stop, but it was so hot. It was the hottest summer that they'd ever had. We didn't know that then. I don't know if they knew that that then, but it was. That summer was the warmest summer that they had, had, I think they had on record. So we were down at the lake a lot. And you know, just playing with the kids and, and sitting, talking with them or going— I can remember going, you know, a couple of us would just go off for walks. There was the woods behind the lake and, you know, just to get away a little bit, you know, we'd just go for a little walk in the woods and come back. Mark Blumberg and I kind of pal'ed together cause we were the two youngest and I can remember taking a walk with him through the woods. I don't know if the others did, I just remember going with Mark a couple of times. What else? Do you know about Jack Woodward? Have you heard that name?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4271.0,4342.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: No.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4342.0,4342.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I'm sorry?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4342.0,4342.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: No. I haven't, no.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4342.0,4346.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay. Jack Woodward was about twenty-eight, twenty-nine and this white twenty-eight, twenty-nine year old man shows up one day and wants to know if he can just observe what we're doing for like two weeks, two or three weeks. And in the beginning we were not, you know, we were a little wary of who he was and what he was doing. And then we kind of realized he probably, he was going for his Master's in education, and we realized he was probably going to see groups of white students and then comparing them to groups of Black students. You know, he was doing some educational research. So he was part of our group for, it had to be at least three weeks. And I got in to \n[unclear]. I started going out with him. I don't know, we just, you know, slipped together. I don't know what you want to call it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4346.0,4407.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And the age, the age really didn't matter. And we did something very stupid. One night, we took the car and we went out somewhere so we could have a make-out session. And that was extremely stupid because we were, you know, totally out of the, out of the protected zone. And if people knew who we were from the white community, we could have gotten into, you know, we could have been in trouble. But, I don't remember what he did. I mean, I don't know if he came to classes or he just hung around or what he did, but, but he was there.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4407.0,4453.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I'm sorry, what was his affiliation?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4453.0,4456.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I'm sorry?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4456.0,4457.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: What was his affiliation? Was he, was he—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4457.0,4461.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, he was by himself. He, he just, he didn't— actually, he never quite said why, why he was there. And it was, we were talking about it separately. I can remember a group of us talking about it separately, and then somebody said, \"Well, maybe he's—\" we knew he was doing, working on his Master's in education. And then somebody just said, well, maybe he's doing comparison of the Black kids and maybe he'd been in a community of white kids and was doing a comparison or something. But he never really said, well you know, why he was there, but he was very personable and, and got along well with the kids. And I don't think we had any issues with him being there at all. But I don't think we ever actually knew. I don't think he ever actually said what he was doing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4461.0,4512.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: But I remember him because, well, I don't know. All of a sudden we were, we were a couple for— a number of us or a few of us coupled off like maybe some of our women with some of the UFT male teachers or whatever. You know, there was some couples, coupling going on in a very innocent way. So we ended up being a couple. And actually Rachel Weddington was very upset with me because she did not like him and I never, she didn't tell me until we got back to New York, but she was very upset that I was, I was, you know, being involved with him. Because she saw him as being somehow manipulative. And she was very, she was very concerned that I was, you know, I was in a relationship with him, but she didn't tell me while we were down there. She told me when, when, when we came back.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4512.0,4576.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right, okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4576.0,4576.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: What else? I'm sure you heard about the Look \n[Magazine] photographer and reporter came down.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4576.0,4585.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes, yes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4585.0,4585.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And William van— William Van Den Heuvel, who— do you know that name?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4585.0,4594.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I think Lenny spoke about him.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4594.0,4594.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. He came down cause he, he was Bobby Kennedy's assistant. Well what I didn't know, the others may have known, there was another lawsuit that had been filed in May before we got down there about the schools that Bobby Kennedy was overseeing. And so he sent Van Den Heuvel down, you know, to see what was going on for— And he was with us, I think, for about a week or two.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4594.0,4621.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh, okay. And his, his job was just observing also?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4621.0,4624.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, he was just observing. Oh, I know what I wanted to say. I forgot before. I, you know, that we were not the only college or university group who was down there. Do you know the whole—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4624.0,4636.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: No, I don't know that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4636.0,4636.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay. All right. Let me start. In '59, the summer of '59, a group from the American Friends Service Committee who, I think they were Quakers. The American, they came down '59 and were doing a lot of community— I don't know what. Actually, I don't know exactly what they were doing, but their, their, their activity was to become involved with the community and do whatever they could to help. That's the American Friends Service Committee. So they were there in '59. They were there for a couple of summers. The summer before us, a group of New England— we first heard it as Yale University students, but then we heard it as a consortium of New England school college students were there before us in summer '62 doing the same thing that we were doing. So we were there '63. Sixty-four or '65, I don't remember which one, a group from Bo— I think it was Boston University was down there. That's in the summer, doing the same thing. So we were not the only ones involved with the kids.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4636.0,4719.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, the, yeah, the, ye— I don't think— Yeah, I don't think we knew. We knew that the American Friends Service Committee, I think they, some of them, of the people from their group was still there from when we were there. Well, they're drilling again. Wait, hold on. Yeah, I feel sorry. My upstairs neighbors work from, work from home anyway, besides the lockdown. They always worked from home and this has been going on for years and they have been going out of their minds. Oh God. Okay. Yeah, it doesn't go on for too long, but it sounds like a dentist drill that's going on. And then, you know about the guy from— hold on. You want to yell at them, shut up.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4719.0,4795.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: It may have been other summers, but the summer we were there, there was a I think it was a psychologist or— from University of Michigan in Ann Arbor came down to do, I guess, I don't know if you call them aptitude tests with the kids. He was, he was testing the kids and writing up, you know, reports about the kids' educational abilities, or just not abilities, you know, disabilities or whatever. He was there, he was— Robert Green. He was there our summer. I don't know if he was there other summers. So the point I'm trying to get to is, I mean, there was a lot of attention to what was going on down there from these couple of, you know, these couple of areas, you know, these couple of groups, the Service Committee or Bobby Kennedy, or, you know, Ann Arbor.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4795.0,4856.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: So it's, you know, they weren't in limbo. I mean, people knew about what was going on and were coming down to see what they could do.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4856.0,4864.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4864.0,4865.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And then we, we— I didn't, but some of the older kids in our group got friendly with some of the people at Longwood University. It was Longwood College at that time. And I don't think— no, I know, I know I didn't, but the older ones did. My, you know, my clearest memory is the first day we started with the kids. We asked them all to come to the AME Church, you know, across the street, Reverend Douglas' church. And Roz \n[Rosalind Silverman Andrews] probably didn't tell you this, cause she didn't remember when I, when I told her. She, Roz was the most outgoing person you can ever imagine. I mean, she just was, you know, she was just great. I really thought she was a great person. She, she picked up a guitar and she started singing, \"There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4865.0,4928.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Uh-huh.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4928.0,4928.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And she had the kids all singing that on the first day in, in the, in the in the church. And that's probably my most vivid memory of the things that we did with the kids.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4928.0,4944.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4944.0,4944.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And well, when we got into the Chinese restaurant episode— when we got into the shopping center into the cafeteria, there was a guy sitting, an older man sitting at another table. And Roz, just the top of her voice said, \"Gee, I bet his neck is getting red.\" I bet— you know, saying he's a redneck. \"I bet his neck is getting red,\" or something like that. I mean, she had, she was fearless. She was, she was great. I mean, she still is. She's— we're still friendly. I mean, she's, she's absolutely great.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4944.0,4977.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. She does, she does have such a great personality when I spoke with her.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4977.0,4982.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, I mean— yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4982.0,4982.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. I wanted to ask to, sort of like the tail-end of the Virginia project—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4982.0,4990.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Wait, I, I'm sorry. I need you to hold on a minute. I can't hear you. Okay. Okay, yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4990.0,4997.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Did you attend the March on Washington on August 28th?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=4997.0,5002.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, I didn't. I think I was just like really— I think the tension, I was feeling the tension without realizing it. Because when it came to, you know, that was our last day and we, everybody was leaving to go to Washington, I was just too tired and I just didn't want to do it. And actually, Rachel Weddington didn't want to. I drove up to New York with Rachel. She didn't go either. And I don't, no, I don't, I don't, I don't regret missing it really, because I felt like I had been doing something else. But I can just remember being very tired that day. So everything was catching up with me that I was not aware of, you know, while, while we were there. Because I mean, it was a tense situation. No— Oh God, stop drilling.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5002.0,5067.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: All right. Actually, what time— They probably just came back from lunch. They usually quiet from twelve to one when they go to lunch, but I guess they just came back from lunch. And now they're hammering, all right. You know, if this house ever gets done, I mean, I really think the people— it's going to be a one family house. It's five stories and evidently one family, it's going to be for one family. I can't believe the original people who, you know, commissioned this house are still involved. It's been three years, literally. I just can't imagine this still waiting for that house to be built anyway. That's a whole side issue. What else can I tell you?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5067.0,5121.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I can ask, I can ask just sort of what your perspective was when you did come back from Virginia.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5121.0,5130.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay. I can tell you, except I have to wait for them to stop. What happened when I came back, I found I could not sit in a classroom. So I mean, I really, that's why I say at the end of the summer, I think it all caught up with me. When I had to go sit in a classroom the fall semester, I could not sit in that classroom because the world had felt very big all of a sudden, you know. And now here I was, sitting in this classroom. So I, actually, I dropped out of school and I went to work for a semester because I simply— I'm sorry?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5130.0,5170.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: No. Yeah, yeah, continue.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5170.0,5172.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: No, I mean, I was just, so— When I finally had time, you know, in fall, you know, to come back and think about it at all, I was really overwhelmed by what we had done and very, you know, the excitement of it still hadn't died down. And, and, and, and, and as I say, I think the tension of it that I wasn't aware of, you know, still really hadn't died down and I just could not face something as pedestrian as being in a classroom. I had to go do something else. So I went and got a job.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5172.0,5217.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. One of the, one of the— excuse me. One of the things with me was I was rather shy— I don't know about shy, but innocent, young sixteen when I started college. And I was, I had no problem with doing this project. Sorry. But socially I did feel, you know, the difference between being sixteen when I started and everybody else was eighteen, you know, when they start. So what I ended up doing for my whole, to get my BA, it took me seven years to get my BA because, and it started when I came back from that summer, because I kept going to school, going to work, going to school.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5217.0,5272.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: I started working full time and got married and I was going to school at night and I was going to school during the summer. And I was never, I was never— I, I looked at my transcript when I had to use it to apply for a job or something and what I saw was my first two years, I was getting all B's and C's in classes. It was more C's than B's. The last, what would be the equivalent of the last two years, because I kept going to school, going to work, going to school, I was getting, you know, much better marks in my classes, more A's and B's because I had gotten older and gotten, you know, more settled and everything. I graduated with like a C point nothing average because I did well in the classes that I enjoyed, but I did not very well in the classes that I didn't enjoy.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5272.0,5328.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And considering I was a researcher, I was a researcher for twenty-five— out of college— When I finished college, I was only twenty-three, which is like a year, most people finish at twenty-two and I was only twenty-three. So I didn't, you know, so I really had gone through a normal period, but it was broken up into work, school, work, school. I went into children's book publishing, so and I was doing that for oh, thirteen, fourteen— And I did that for, yeah, thirteen, fourteen years. Because I didn't go to library school until I was thirty-seven.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5328.0,5374.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. I was going to ask if, if that was, if that career decision was because of your involvement in the Student Help Project?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5374.0,5384.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Well when I, I had dropped out of being an Education major somewhere in the middle there, and I became an English major and an Education minor. So I was an English major and I was married already. And the summer after I graduated, my mother-in-law had this big manuscript. She had written her thoughts about the world issues and everything, and it needed editing badly. And I sat down and I had been a writer since I was a kid. I mean, since like fourth, fifth grade. I edited, I line edited the manuscript, so it got into shape to send it to a publisher. And I realized I enjoyed the editing. I enjoyed that, doing, you know, I enjoyed doing that very much. And so I went into publishing thinking, you know, I could try to be an editor.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5384.0,5444.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And I, after eight years, I realized I was not going to be an editor. I've done a number of different things in my life. So after eight years, so that would have been '70 to '78, '71 to '78, I realized I was never going to be an editor, but I had been doing photography since a kid, since I was a kid. And I had been doing photography for the publishing company, taking pictures of authors for their book jackets and doing catalogs, book catalogs and things like that. And I had a little photography business on the side, you know, aside from working. So I said in '78, let me see if I could make it as a professional photographer.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5444.0,5493.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And the way I supported myself was I would go back to the publishing company, Harper and Row. I'd go back to Harper if— Every manuscript— Oh God, I hope, can you hear me?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5493.0,5509.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, I can.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5509.0,5509.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, okay. Every manuscript that came in unsolicited, you know, to the publishing company would get a first reading. I mean, ev— everybody who sent in a manuscript, got their manuscript read by an editorial assistant, and then if the editorial assistant thought it was worth, you know, doing something with, it would go to an editor. So I was an editorial assistant. I did other things. I did half business of publishing and half editor— editorial. So when I decided to see if I could become a professional photographer, I would go back to Harper's and pick up a shopping bag full of manuscripts to do, continue to do the first readings. I mean, we all did, every— all the editorial assistants did first readings.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5509.0,5559.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: So I would go back, go back to Harper's, pick up a shopping bag full of, you know, the manuscripts to do first readings freelance. So I was working for them freelance and trying to make it as a photographer. And at the end of five years, I was— photography is very expensive and I was very poor. And I'm just trying to think, all right, I need another job. I needed another real job, you know, a real career. And all of a sudden, I was working, I was somewhere in a library and helping somebody— somebody else, another patron asked me to help, you know, that I might help. She didn't think I was a librarian, but she said, \"Do you know where such and such is,\" and I was, I was helping her, and she said, \"You know, you should be a librarian.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5559.0,5612.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And that's when it hit. Because I had been interested in libraries since, you know, lived in libraries when I was a kid. I worked in the library in high school. I did all that library work, you know, with Virginia. And all of a sudden it hit, I'm a librarian. I really am. I mean, I'm not trying to boast. I am a natural-born librarian. I mean, I love it. I really do. So I went to library school at St. John's \n[University]. And then okay, so where am I going, after I graduated, where am I going to work? Because I'd had some experience in the business of publishing when I was working for publishers, I started working in what are called special libraries, corporate, business, and finance, internal libraries, doing research, online research. This is when the internet was starting to really become the thing to do so.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5612.0,5673.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: So, what I did for twenty-five years was online research for business and finance. And, but I always said to myself, cause I enjoyed the tutoring because when I was still an Ed \n[Education] ma— Ed major, they had us work with one— in one of the methods classes, they had us work with one child in one of the public schools who needed one-to-one attention, you know, because they weren't doing well in the class. So I really enjoyed working one-to-one with my, the boy I was working with that semester. So I realized, even though I was really terrified when I was in Virginia, the tutoring, I realized one-to-one, I really did enjoy.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5673.0,5720.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: One— even one-to-two would have been too much, but one-to-one was, was good. And I always said, when I retired, I was going to go back to tutoring because the tutoring that I did and the tutoring that I learned about, you know, the whole Virginia experience, plus, you know, working with this kid, really made an impression on me. And I told myself that when I retired, I was going to go back to doing tutoring. And I did it. I went, I was, went up to 126 Street and I was tutoring, I was part of a team tutoring adults who were going for their GED diploma.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5720.0,5761.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5761.0,5761.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: But what I'm trying to say is the, I don't think I would have thought of that if I had not had the Virginia experience.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5761.0,5768.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5768.0,5768.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: You know, so, so that, that was something else that, that I got out of the Virginia experience besides the library experience.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5768.0,5775.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. Switching it a little, a little bit in terms of your participation in Jamaica, did you, did you feel the same way? I'm not sure if the groups were bigger or smaller when you, when, when the cohort tutored in Jamaica, but did you get that same kind of feeling that you can—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5775.0,5793.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: You know, I, now that we're talking about it, I didn't. I probably, we probably, each worked with a group maybe of four or five students. But I think, what I think, I don't know this, I'm just making a guess that Dr. Weddington, you know, Rachel and Sid had, had structured it so that we would have structured lessons and we would know what to do, you know, with each kid or— I don't, I don't know. It didn't bother me in Jamaica, which I hadn't thought about that at all, actually, because I wasn't working one-to-one in Jamaica. I was working with a group of like four to five kids.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5793.0,5832.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5832.0,5832.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And I don't remember I'm thinking now, today, this minute, that it must've been, because it was maybe structured for us. But it did not bother me all that much, actually. I don't remember. I mean, and it didn't bother me to the point that I was picked to go to, to be in the Virginia project. I mean, they were taking people out of, they were looking, Sid and Rachel were seeing, you know, how the people in the Jamaica project were functioning and that's how they chose who to go to Virginia. So I must've been doing okay because I was, you know, to be part of the Virginia group. I didn't ask to be part of the Virginia group. You know, I had— Rachel and Sid had to, had to decide who was going to be who, you know, who the members were going to be.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5832.0,5886.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5886.0,5887.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: That's very weird. I didn't think of that before. I think maybe I was really scared when I was down in Virginia because I just, you know, wasn't home. And, you know, the first time I was really away from home. And— but, and also it was a much larger, I mean, it was a class of maybe kindergarten kids, but it was very, definitely a class. And actually I dropped out, I stopped being an Ed. major because they put us into a classroom once to do a student teaching one class experiment somewhere in the middle of the Ed. courses. And I froze, I mean, literally facing a class of like fourth graders or whatever. I totally froze. I mean, they had to get me out of the class. But in Jamaica, it wasn't a problem. That's right. I hadn't thought about that at all. That's really funny.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5887.0,5947.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Did you want to share anything else about your participation in Jamaica? I know we talked a little before.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5947.0,5952.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: The only thing I really remember about Jamaica was Count Basie. You know, the orchestra leader? Lived fairly close and he came to visit, I don't know if he knew the people, you know, whose house we were tutoring these kids or how it came about. But I remember meeting Count Basie who was very important jazz, he was a jazz orchestra leader. And that's about all I remember about Jamaica. But I must, as I say, I must've been doing okay because they had no question about, you know, me going to Virginia. So yeah. I, I mean, I think when I, I can remember standing up the first day in that little kindergarten class in the church in Virginia and looking at these little faces and going, ah, I don't know what to do. Because it must've been structured so that each tutor figured out what the kids needed. I, I, I don't, I'm just guessing, I don't know. You'll have to ask Mike and Stan how they figured this all out. But I don't, I don't remember being told, well, do this, do that, you know, with your class, just go and tutor them. And I remember standing there going, I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. But they were so adorable those kids.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=5952.0,6045.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6045.0,6049.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6049.0,6049.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I was going to say, so some of the final, like reflections I would love to hear from you are what kind of activism, or did you continue sort of on civil rights initiatives later on in your life because of the Student Help Project?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6049.0,6064.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Well, I considered the tutoring up at 126 Street of a civil rights activity cause it's, you know, it's a Harlem neighborhood, neighborhood. All the adults, you know, they were all Black or Puerto Rican. So I considered that. I'm very big on literacy. I'm mar— I think marches are fine and, you know, marches are good to do and protests are good to do to be visible, but I think literacy is where the issue is. So, so if anything came out of Virginia, especially literac— literacy became a passion of mine. So I w— I was there for— how long was I there? I was there for about three years until, I guess, I guess I got burnt out. And then a couple of years later I was doing ESL conversation, being conversation partners with Asian kids down in, downtown.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6064.0,6133.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: It was— do you know the Educational Alliance? Do you know that name?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6133.0,6138.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: No, I'm not familiar.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6138.0,6139.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Okay. It's been around for immigrants since probably the '30s or '20s. Thirties or '40s, I don't know. The beginning, it was all Jewish immigrants now it's all Asian immigrants, downtown in— not the Lower East Side, but like right above the Lower East Side. I guess it would be near, near, you know, near the Avenue A, Avenue B area that kind of— a little bit above that. So I got burnt out with the tutoring up at 126 Street, mainly because the supervising teacher, teacher was an absolute— she was not good. I mean, she was not a good person to be a supervising teacher and, and also you got burnt out because these are the people who were, you know, working themselves very hard to, to get ahead and, you know, it's a very emotional—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6139.0,6198.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And I, anyway, I got burnt out. Then I went as a volunteer in the Morgan Library in the Department of Printed Books because I had a background in librarianship and publishing. So I was working as a volunteer there. That kind of overlapped. Then I left 126 Street. I was at Morgan for a couple of years. And then I went and I was doing the English language— English as a second language tutor, conversation partner with the Asian people down in the Educational Alliance because that's what I consider activism. I mean, literacy, I think is the issue, really. I mean, once people, you know, once the literacy, the literacy level is, is, is what it should be, then they have something that is permanent and is valuable. And in protest, I believe very, you know, completely in protest marches and sit-ins, and everything to be visible, but it doesn't help the people that we're trying to help, you know?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6198.0,6278.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. It sounds like the Student Help Project was the perfect opportunity for you to find that, that sort of way of displaying your activism. Way of displaying how you \n[unclear].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6278.0,6289.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, yeah. I mean, the minute, as I say, I found out about it is I ran into Carolyn Hubbard in that spring. And she said go talk to Dr. Weddington. And then the minute she told me about it, I didn't even think about did I want to do this or not. I said, \"Oh yeah, great. I want to do this.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6289.0,6308.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, definitely. Okay. That's— I mean, in all of our conversation, we've, you know, you've answered a lot of the questions that I didn't have to outwardly ask, which is fantastic. I just want to ask, you know, do you have anything else you want to add in terms of how, how the Student Help Project affected the way that you view race relations today or anything else that comes to mind?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6308.0,6333.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: That is— I'll tell you something. That is a very interesting question because when I was up on 126 Street and I was working with people who were on welfare, or some people had been in prison, and this was, a part of the probation was to come, you know, go for their GED, or at least stay there for six months. They, they were poor, and I walked in with the same preconceptions that the other people on my team had. That these would be poor people and they wouldn't know too much. And, you know it's, it's, it's a perception.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6333.0,6372.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6372.0,6372.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Oh, wait, wait, hold on. And then all of a sudden, one guy started talking to me about Beethoven and somebody else was doing a biography of one of Abraham Lincoln's sons. And somebody else was talking to me about WBAI, the progressive radio station used to be very popular.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6372.0,6394.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And I realized I had the same pretense even with my experiences. I had the same preconceptions of what these people would be like as the other people on my team who did not have my experiences. And that to me is when I realized perception is the entire issue. You know, you have a pre— preconception and that's what you see. And if you change your, your preconception, you'll see something different. And I think I, I, I'd go on great— I can go on about this for a while because it just, it hit me one day. I was on the subway and I saw a group of Black teenagers who were, you know, being noisy the way kids are when they come home from, you know, come back from school. And, you know, some of the people in the subway car were looking and not being, you know, very happy about it because they were Black.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6394.0,6459.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And all of a sudden I looked at this group of kids and I said, \"No, wait a minute. These are probably very intelligent kids.\" And I may not have thought about it before. I would have had the same preconception. It shocked the hell out of me. I've got to tell you. I mean, I, I can't, I can't tell you how much it shocked me that I still, no matter what I had gone through, what experiences I had, it didn't change my, my conception, my preconceptions. So I realized perception is, is nine-tenths of the whole— perception is the whole issue. Not just nine-tenths, but it's the whole issue. What you'd expect to see, you see. And yeah, and when you expect to see something different, you see something different. So that's, that's my, that's my big speech.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6459.0,6512.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. No, I appreciate it. I really do. And, and if you don't have anything else to add, I, I, I think we could press stop on the recording. It's been fantastic to hear everything that you've shared today.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6512.0,6526.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, if you want to. Just because there's a whole 'nother part to the, the Virginia thing that you know, really isn't something that would go into your, your, you know, your study. But Rachel Weddington, Dr. Weddington was somebody that we all stayed in contact, well most of us stayed in contact with as we became adults, really. And she, I have to, you know, if I wanted to say who was one of the most important influences on my life, I would have to say it was Rachel. Because I mean, as we, as we became adults— when we were down there, we'd never call her Dr. Weddington. We called her \"Doc.\" We would say \"Doc this—.\" I'm sure you've heard that. But as we became adults, you know, she called herself Rachel to us and we called her Rachel. And she was probably the most important person in my life because she would not let us get away with anything.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6526.0,6595.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: You know, we would be, you know, dreaming up the straight idea of what we should do. And she would look at us, you know, \"You're doing the pie in the sky, kids. How is this actually going to work out in reality?\" She would always bring us down to earth and make us look at what we, you know, we were talking about and how we would do it. And she, she was an incredible person. She, she, she would get very frustrated with us sometimes because, you know, we would, as I say, we would be up in this pie in the sky and having all these great ideas that we thought would, you know, would work.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6595.0,6637.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And but more than that, she was somebody we could talk to about personal things, you know. Not very personal things. I don't know that anybody brought, you know, their parents' problems or whatever, you know, the problems with their parents or anything, but she was very, very interested in us. I mean, she always felt very connected to us, and we always felt very connected to— the group of us, not everybody. But I guess Mike, Stan, Phyllis, Jeannie. And don't ever tell Jeannie, I called her Jeannie. She got very insulted once. Cause that's her family name. She's known as Jean outside the family. But Phyllis, Jean, Ina to a certain extent. Because Rachel would have us up to her apartment over the years.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6637.0,6689.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: And so a numb— so that group of, you know, maybe five or six of us stayed in, stayed in contact with her actually until she died, because she had to go out to Seattle to be in a nursing home. The only person who could take care of her was her nephew who lived in Seattle. Portland, I'm sorry. Portland, Oregon. And Phyllis went out there about two or three years before Rachel died in a nursing home because Phyllis had a daughter or child who's now transgender, a child out in Portland. So she visited Rachel in the nursing home. And then I was out there about two or three years after that, which is about ten years, about twelve years— ten, twelve years ago. So I went to see her in the nursing home. My nephew lived in Portland so I went to see her in the nursing home.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6689.0,6742.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: So literally, some of us were close. And also I was, I ended up being the only one of the group who still lived in New York. So everybody else, you know, kind of spread around, spread out around the whole country. And so I was in, I was close in touch or close with— I'd go out to lunch with, you know, to Ra— with Rachel I'd go out to lunch or we'd talk on the phone because she lived alone. She was she never married. And I was divorced and I lived alone. And, you know, there was a connection on that level, but also, you know, she was just somebody you could talk to. And she was interested in us and we just, we, we, we adored her. I mean, there was just no other word for it. I mean, she was— because she, because of what kind of person she was. So she, I'm very glad she was part of my life is, I guess, what I'm saying.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6742.0,6802.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, everybody, everybody talks about the impact that she had on them, but it's, it's great to hear that you had such a personal connection with her too.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6802.0,6813.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah. You know, it, it— yeah. I mean, what could I say? It was just there. It's funny, I never got along with Sid, Sid Simon. A lot of the other people, especially the guys, I think Mike and Stan especially were very close with him. Sid Simon somehow always rubbed me the wrong way. And he was not as involved in the everyday aspects of what we, how we were preparing for Virginia as Rachel was. But anyway, I just never got along with him at all.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6813.0,6851.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: But, but he said something once that stayed with me. When we were talking about plans and what we'd want to do, and he said— now let me see if I can get this straight. You go in— when somebody, you go in to do— \"When you can't do something, when something can't be done for some reason or other, but you don't know it can't be done, you go in and do it.\" You know what I mean? If somebody says— do you understand what I mean? And that has stayed with me. You know, that one statement from him has stayed with me, I think, all my life. So Rachel and Sid had a great influence on all of us, they really did. Because Sid's instructional issue was ethics. And even in his Education classes, he would talk about ethics and that had a great influence on, I think, on all of us. But as a person, I couldn't quite warm up to him.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6851.0,6920.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. Yeah. I know other people have mentioned Sid's catchphrase was, \"Make your deeds match your creeds.\" So that would make sense that, that he was hard on ethics. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6920.0,6932.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nDebby Yaffe: Yeah, yeah. He— no, he, he he, he really did help us. You know, they were, they were two ends of a spectrum, really. Rachel was very, you know, practical down to earth and he was more abstract. So I, I can't think of anything else. So what happens? What are the next step that happen?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6932.0,6955.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963/transcript/30524/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, sure. So I'm just going, I'm going to press stop.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/45882/file/118963#t=6955.0,6960.45714"}]}]}]}