{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/v69862c28f/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Leonard Hausman Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFull Interview Summary\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eLeonard Hausman shares his experience fundraising, organizing, and participating in the Virginia Student-Help Project of Queens College during the summer of 1963. The Virginia Student-Help Project was a six-week long educational effort where Queens College students went to Prince Edward County, Virginia where public schools were closed for five years in massive resistance to federally mandated integration. Hausman discusses his role as a project lead and tutor in the Virginia initiative, as well as the trajectory of his career since being involved.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/40439"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2020-10-28 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Tags"]},"value":{"en":["Queens College Alumni"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Leonard Hausman (Interviewee)","Victoria Fernandez (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College \"Student Help: Lived Experience\" Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1959-1968 (temporal)","Queens College, Flushing, Queens, NY; Prince Edward County, Virginia (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFull Interview Summary\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eLeonard Hausman shares his experience fundraising, organizing, and participating in the Virginia Student-Help Project of Queens College during the summer of 1963. The Virginia Student-Help Project was a six-week long educational effort where Queens College students went to Prince Edward County, Virginia where public schools were closed for five years in massive resistance to federally mandated integration. Hausman discusses his role as a project lead and tutor in the Virginia initiative, as well as the trajectory of his career since being involved.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA\u0026nbsp;Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/104/294/small/SHPInterview_LHausman_VFernandez_10282020.mp4_1611087234.jpg?1611069235","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - SHPInterview_LHausman_VFernandez_10282020.mp4"]},"duration":5209.68,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/104/294/small/SHPInterview_LHausman_VFernandez_10282020.mp4_1611087234.jpg?1611069235","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/104/294/original/SHPInterview_LHausman_VFernandez_10282020.mp4?1611069230","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":5209.68,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Interview Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Alright, so we're recording. And we can start by introducing ourselves. I'm Victoria Fernandez, the 2020/2021 Freda S. and J. Chester Johnson Civil Rights and Social Justice Archives Fellow at Queens College Library.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1.0,16.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Okay. I'm Leonard Hausman. I'm a graduate very happily, very proud to say of Queens College, where I got a great education, particularly in economics, philosophy, and political science. I had some teachers who I talk about all the time. They were outstanding and it was a great place to get prepared for further education and work. Further introduction, Victoria?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=16.0,48.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: If you have more to add, go ahead.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=48.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Okay, good. So after getting my PhD at the University of Wisconsin, I taught at North Carolina State where, it's relevant to note I continued here and there as an assistant professor in the Economics Department there doing some civil rights work. It was a little bit trying. North Carolina was not quite as liberal as people thought. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=51.0,82.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: What year was this?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=82.0,82.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: This was uh. Let me be careful. In the, the, the civil rights stuff began in April '68. Okay. Well, before you were born and it began in response to the assassination of Martin Luther King. Okay. And for some reason I'm just talking here because we were talking about the work in Prince Edward County. Okay. There was a meeting held with Chapel Hill. UNC Chapel Hill. Maybe a day or so after King was assassinated. And there were people there from Duke and Chapel Hill and NC State students and staff and faculty. And I really mean it. For a reason that I've never understood I was asked to lead a march with my wife and that materialized on the Sunday following King's assassination. The reason that there was such interest in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area was that, I don't believe, I don't know exactly, but I think that King was scheduled to be in Raleigh the day after it turned out he was assassinated. Okay. So that march had great consequences for my life. I don't know for others. And I ended up pretty much having to leave NC State because of that. And I went to Brandeis. Okay. And I think that it's interesting to note— and I really want to note this. My colleagues at NC State in the Economics Department, it's important to note this in view of kind of today's kind of discussions in our country were largely very conservative people. Okay. Educated predominantly the University of Chicago. But they were serious defenders of free speech. Okay. And they defended me to the T. Okay. But they couldn't overcome at that time a man who became Senator from North Carolina, Jesse Helms H-E-L-M-S. Okay. In any event to get back to my background Victoria, I became an academic, an economist at Brandeis and then I went to MIT and then to Harvard. Okay. And during the latter years that I was at Brandeis, I got into international programs with China and also in the Middle East. And my work at Harvard, which started at Brandeis was on building a large Arab-Israeli program, focusing on economic relationships among countries in that region. And that led to— you can look this up— the Economic Accords between the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli government in April 1994.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=82.0,318.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=318.0,319.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: So, that's basically my background, and these days. One more thing. Out of that work at Harvard, I got into work that leads to stuff that I'm doing today. Following up on the Abraham Accords, creating business opportunities between Israeli and Arab companies in the UAE, Bahrain, and Saudi Arabia. And that brings you forward, Victoria, to what I'm doing this hour. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=319.0,356.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: It's okay. That is a fantastic update. So thank you.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=356.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: You're welcome.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=360.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: It's just always interesting to know where do people end up once they leave Queens College. Obviously, that's what we're going to be talking about today. So just to preface for anybody who will watch this in the future, today is Wednesday, October 28th, 2020. So we're recording this interview using Zoom Video Conferencing and it's being recorded for the Queens College Special Collections and Archives, along with the Queens Memory Project at Queens Library. And it's part of it initiative called the Student Help Lived Experience Collection at the Archive to document the activities of Queens College students who were active in the civil rights movement in the 1960s. And, more specifically, we'll be talking about the Student Help Project as one as one of those initiatives. So, to begin, I'd like to ask you, where did you grow up and how would you describe your neighborhood? So we'll go back to the beginning.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=360.0,414.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yes. Okay. That's fine. I grew up in the Flatbush section of Brooklyn. Okay. And it's kind of interesting, I think it's relevant in terms of what we're talking about. My neighborhood was, I would say 100% Roman Catholic and Jewish by religion. Okay. Nobody else. Okay. Because the country has become so diverse, kind of internationalized. Okay. It wasn't at that time, at least where I lived. Almost everybody was a Democrat. Okay. Again, I just say this descriptively, I'm not making a judgment here. So, and the schools were basically segregated by religion, and voluntarily. It's kind of interesting. Almost all the Catholic children went to Catholic school. And almost all the Jewish children went to the public school. Okay. But, in the playgrounds, the parks and everything, everything was completely integrated. Okay. And harmonious. But nobody else, you know, lived in the neighborhood. That was pretty much, it. It was very interesting, at least in my particular area. So that was where I grew up in Brooklyn. Please.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=414.0,497.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. And just tell me a little bit more about your parents, their political views. Were they from other countries? Did they live in the United States?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=497.0,506.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yes. My parents immigrate, emigrated from Germany, from Berlin here. Okay. Under difficult, but not the most trying circumstances compared to others. Okay. They came here in '36 \n[correction: 1938]. They set up in the Bronx and then moved to Brooklyn. Politically— let me get rid of this. Okay. One second. Okay. Politically, it's kind of interesting. My mother was a a lifelong liberal Democrat. You know, kind of a Adlai Stevenson, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, kind of Democrat. My father was basically apolitical. He was purely absorbed in business. Okay. Seven by 24. Okay. Rarely made a political comment. Read. He was fluent in nine languages. Right. Although he had to leave school at age 14 because of the poverty of his family. That's a long story. Okay. But he educated himself and he read newspapers every day from many different countries. Germany, France, this, that. Okay. Italian, Spanish. I mean, it was unbelievable. But although he read all those things, assiduously, he never discussed any of it with my sister and me. All the discussions about politics were with my mother. Okay. Go ahead. I don't want to go on too long.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=506.0,624.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yeah. I won't ever cut you off, so feel free to continue. Like, but just to lead into that. So your neighborhood was predominantly Catholic and Jewish, did you ever experience any or witness any social injustice growing up? can you think of a particular instance where you felt you needed to be an agent of social change?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=624.0,645.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: No. I think the accurate answer is no. Okay. I would say that— as I said to you a few minutes ago— relationships in the neighborhood were totally harmonious. I never remember. I don't recall a single incident of anybody being mistreated. I mean, there was always a, a kid here or there in school— but very rarely— who misbehaved. Okay. My two best friends, one was Catholic and one was Jewish. And we didn't, we didn't think about it. I mean, it wasn't anything that occurred to us. Okay. We were kids and that was that. I don't think I ever—and I went to Brooklyn Tech as a high school. Okay. And that student body was diverse in a sense that we don't talk about it today in the U.S. so much. It was diverse in an international sense. Okay. Anybody who was there got in, as you know, at least as well, as I do Victoria, by virtue of the entrance exam. Okay. I never knew maybe there was some kids who got in because of their athletic prowess. Okay. But I do recall thinking that this guy's family came from Yugoslavia. This one came from wherever. Okay. So there were many, many, every type of person imaginable. Okay. Every type of boy imaginable. Okay. And no girls. And we didn't think in terms of current categories. They were irrelevant to us. Or, I should say they never occurred to us. Okay. And I think that, I remember that the chief justice of the student court was a black young man. Okay. But you know, it just was he was a wonderful guy. Okay. And that was it. So, the teachers were diverse. The student body was diverse. But more in an international and a religious sense than in terms of the current categories. And of course there were no girls. We were very conscious of that. And I did come out of that experience thinking that it was a big mistake. I'm not saying this to entertain you. I really have said this many, many times. I think that it was not good to have gender separated schools. I thought that was bad for the boys. Forget about not letting girls in, which was not good. Okay. But it wasn't healthy for us to be in gender separated or segregated schools. That's my view. And I wouldn't have, never did have a child or anybody around me go to a school like that. I think is a mistake. So. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=645.0,834.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: So, then heading to Queens College how did that change? What changed in terms of the people you saw or who was around you? Campus life?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=834.0,843.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Well, you know, Victoria, I've thought about that. It's kind of funny and maybe my recollection is inaccurate, but again there I think the students that I knew, Robert Malito, this one, that one, were mostly Catholics and Jews by religion. And as I recall— I didn't think about it at the time—very few black students, and we didn't think of Hispanic Americans. Okay. I never remember that kind of thought coming up within any discussion. So, it was as you know, a school where you had to have an 88 average to get in from high school. Okay. And I did think at the time that I was happy to be in a school with young men and young women. Okay. And I thought that was just much healthier. I thought it was very unhealthy to have at Brooklyn Tech just boys. People were just kind of preoccupied and obsessed with talking about girls, because there weren't any around.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=843.0,913.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=913.0,913.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: It was nuts, I thought. Okay. Fortunately I lived a desegregated or integrated life on the weekends. Okay. But I liked Queens College for that. And, again, my experience at Queens was one of great harmoniousness, great harmony among the students. So, I thought it was a very, very nice place. And then in terms of the academics, some of the teachers were just outstanding. I mean, I can't imagine that any school could have had better teachers for undergraduates than Queens had at that time.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=913.0,959.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: For no cost, additionally.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=959.0,962.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: For no cost. No. Yeah, no. I realized that too. And I appreciated that at that time. Okay. And a small boast, but to add to your point, I'm sure many were in this category. At that time, they had Regent scholarships for kids. Which was merit-based. But, in addition to being tuition free, you got whatever, 1,400 a year from the state to support your living costs. Okay. So, that was very helpful. It wasn't trivial. Okay. So, the State was kind, the City was kind, the teaching was just outstanding. There was one teacher in the Philosophy Department, William \n[Note: his name was John J. McDermott, who a few years later, won some kind of a national teaching award. And I wondered how they ferreted him out. I mean, he was really off the charts, he was so good. Okay. Never used a note or anything like that. I was always, I have to say, I have to admit, more religion-conscious than I was race or ethnicity conscious as a kid. Okay. And I did take note of the fact that almost the entire, if not the entire, Philosophy Department at Queens was made up of people who I thought, obviously no one knew, nobody would ask, were Roman Catholics. And the quality of that teaching, of the teaching in that department was just unreal. Okay. Also in Economics and Political Science. Maybe not quite on the average of the level of the Philosophy Department. So, I got into all this with the Virginia project, the Prince Edward project by chance. Okay. It turned out, and I'm not being modest here, I'm being accurate, every one of the things that I mentioned before, fleetingly, was the idea of another person who came to me and said, you know, Lenny, why don't you do this or that? Okay. The China work, the Middle East work. I could go on. One thing after the other. Okay. And then I would pick and choose and do different things. And that's exactly how this project started. And I might've told you this already, there were two academics. You've probably heard their names a thousand times already., Rachel Weddington and Sidney, Simon. And somehow one of them, Sidney, Sid knew my sister. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=962.0,1117.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Was she also at Queens College?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1117.0,1119.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yes. And she was two years ahead of me. Right. And I don't know how it exactly happened, but the two of them sat me down one day and asked me to get into this. And that's how it started. I had, it was not my idea. I had no idea of it. I'm sure I had read about the travesty of Prince Edward in the newspapers. Okay. But I never would've thought of doing anything.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1119.0,1145.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And so you didn't have Sid for any classes. I know he was teaching in the Education Department. But, this makes me ask why. Was your sister involved? Was she— why wasn't she involved if she wasn't?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1145.0,1159.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: She was not involved. Okay. I think she probably. She was more of a political activist than I, by far. I was not active at all. She probably encouraged me, but I don't remember. I took her very seriously on matters like education and politics and so on and so forth. I don't think that she was involved at all, except that she was very close to Sid Simon for a while. And probably followed what we were doing under his aegis and Rachel's aegis. But that was it. Am I answering your question? I don't want to miss.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1159.0,1204.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh yeah. No, of course. Well, we'll come back a little more about how you got involved. But, just out of curiosity, what? Were you involved in any other campus like activities? They don't have to be activism per se. Just a commuter student?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1204.0,1220.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: I was a commuter student. I was on the basketball team as a Freshmen. I don't think I played tennis with Queens. I don't recall that. And basically I was a commuter. I did my homework. And for maybe a week and a half, I pledged for a fraternity. Okay. But then my personality got in the way and I couldn't stand the restrictions. Do this, do that, wear this, wear that. And one day I literally took my beanie or whatever they called it and tossed it to them and said goodbye. And that was that. So I just think that, you know, as a commuter, I had boy friends, girl friends, this and that, you know., But no, I wasn't an activist at all. What I did do—you're provoking me now; it's good, you're doing good job. I was always interested in politics, and that I was in addition to my major economics. Okay. And the philosophy just, I was just attracted by the teachers. Okay. That was. Okay. But what I did do very often was go to a section of the cafeteria at that time where the very left wing students would congregate every day for lunch.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1220.0,1306.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1306.0,1307.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Okay. And what I thought to myself was that in this area of the cafeteria, there's every type of communist, Marxist you could imagine. Trotsky, Lenin, Stalin, this, Castro, this, that, whatever. Okay. And I did love, I have to say— this is probably a personality thing— arguing with them. At that time I, you know if you put a label on me, I might've thought of myself as a kind of Sweden socialist. Okay. But I loved fighting verbally with every single one of those people. Okay. And that was big entertainment. And I did that almost every single day for lunch. Okay. But it was, it was, I would have to say entertainment. I didn't do anything out of any of that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1307.0,1362.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Did you grow close with any of those people or it's just a group to pester\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1362.0,1368.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yeah, a guy a little bit who I think would have said at the time—this is not to put a label on anybody or anything like that— whose father was a, a true red Soviet communist. Okay. And I think my friend Peter was a little bit that way. Okay. But we got along great. And then we ended up living together for a year of graduate school in Madison. And I remember his father saying to me one day when I visited their house somewhere in Queens. It might've been in Bayside. Okay. I visited their house and we had a discussion and it was, you know, the kind of thing that I like to do. Kind of schmooze about politics. Okay. And I said to Mr., I said to him, \"Mr. Lupow, you're complaining about so much in the United States.\" He said, yes. And I said, \"But you're living\"—. And he was living in quarters much nicer than ours. Okay. In Queens. Much! I said, \"You're living in such a nice house with a garden in the neighborhood and this and that.\" And he turned to me in all seriousness and he said, \"Leonard, nothing is too good for the working class.\" Okay. I was whatever, 19 or 20 and I thought to myself I didn't want to be impolite. This is working class ?Anyhow. Okay. So that's background. Go ahead.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1368.0,1454.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Alright. So going back to your point about being involved in the Student Help Project. Oh, sorry, before I ask that, when did you start at Queens College?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1454.0,1466.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: I started in September 1959.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1466.0,1470.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Alright. Great. And so when Sid Simon approached you and your sister to, to get involved in the Student Help Project, what were your thoughts? Initial reactions?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1470.0,1482.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: I think that my general approach then and later on in my professional life was to try to be helpful to those who asked me to do something. Okay. Like the whole Middle East thing came to me when I was teaching at Brandeis and I'm. A graduate student, a retired general in the Israeli army came to me and he said it was time to do some work on cooperation between Israel and its Arab neighbors. And I liked him. I had gotten to know him. I literally had never met one Arab in my life when he said that to me. Okay. You've heard there were none in my neighborhood. There were none in my school. That was it. It was a different world. I hadn't traveled. And so I think that with Sid and Rachel it was the same thing. And you know, it appealed to me. It kind of bothered me— I don't want to exaggerate it— that the kids there weren't going to school. Okay. And it seemed wrong. And so I said, yes, and I got into it. But I didn't get into it with fire and brimstone or out of any deep long-term commitment. I don't want to exaggerate that. I think I was trying to be helpful to Sid and Rachel. And it seemed a little bit interesting. And the cause seemed good. And that's how I got into it. Many of the others in the group had more passion about it, you know, than I did and had deeper commitment to it than I did. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1482.0,1579.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: But nonetheless, you participated, so that is very interesting. And did you know anybody else in the cohort of students who went down to Virginia before you had joined the project?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1579.0,1590.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: No. Well, to be accurate, what happened was. I don't know about, I don't know that we had titles or anything like that. But, Rachel and Sid asked me to head the project. Okay. And basically what I did— and I forget exactly how it happened. Mike Wenger and Stan Shaw and maybe one or two others kind of really did the hard work. Okay. I was kind of the supervisor, coordinator. I was in charge of raising the money. Okay. Somehow or other, and I can't remember this. I've tried several times to recall, but don't know. I can't— I was in charge. You probably heard about this, Victoria, about the fundraiser that we had at Carnegie Hall. Okay. So I somehow was responsible for organizing that and I don't know how we got Dick Gregory. That was incredible. Okay. And of course it was, he who raised all the money. Carnegie Hall was jammed to the rafters with people who paid and financed the whole project.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1590.0,1662.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And— I don't mean to interrupt. Carnegie Hall, it was, sorry, like a show that, that was put on. You had a bunch of, you invited a bunch of different popular faces at that time. Am I correct?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1662.0,1676.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: I don't remember enough of it. I remember two things about it. One was that Dick Gregory was the center of it. And he came out and he entertained, I don't really remember anything else. Okay. And I do recall because I had to do it. I had to kind of emcee the evening. So, you know, I gave some kind of a talk before and after him., Others might recall other things that had happened that evening. I don't. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1676.0,1702.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: And do you remember the population of people who went and sort of paid to go in and participated? Were they Queens College students? Were they just..?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1702.0,1712.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: That's a good question. The answer is, I don't know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1712.0,1716.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. No problem.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1716.0,1717.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: And I don't know how we got a packed house. Okay? Yes. It was civil rights time. Okay. It was a cause that became known. Who publicized that evening and drew in a capacity crowd of people who paid the whole thing— however they paid—I don't know any of that. Okay. So maybe Mike, Stan, I don't know, Roz. Maybe Phyllis, I don't know who did all the work, but it wasn't I .\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1717.0,1748.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. So if you want to continue about just your role in fundraising and maybe what comes after the Carnegie Hall concert.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1748.0,1757.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Well, as I recall, that was either the only or the main thing. Okay, in terms of fundraising. There might have been additional contributions. I don't recall. Okay. So I know that I had to do that. I'm sure that I had to organize a team to do all of the serious, hard work of getting prepared. I did have to make an initial trip on a Greyhound bus to Prince Edward.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1757.0,1792.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Before everybody goes down?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1792.0,1794.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Before everybody went down. So that was in the spring of '63. Okay. And the objective of that trip was only one. To meet Reverend L Francis Griffin. Okay. Whose son has lived in the Boston area for a long time and we've been in touch with each other. I would say the last time we talked was a week ago.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1794.0,1818.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh, that's great.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1818.0,1818.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Right. And I do recall that, however I made it to Reverend Griffin's house, when I arrived on a nice spring day on his porch, he greeted me and he said, \"Leonard, glad to meet you.\" Okay. And he said, with a smile on his face, he's a dear guy, \"Do you want this meeting to be conducted in Hebrew or in English?\" And I said, \"Reverend Griffin, I'm afraid listening to what you're intimating, that your Hebrew is better than mine.\" \n[laughs] He had, he got, he got educated at some Protestant seminary at Columbia. I forget what they call it. So we, we organized that. We organized everything there. You know, what the problem was. All we had to do. What we might do during the summer and so on and so forth. And then, somehow I got a call from someone at the United Federation of Teachers. Okay. Again, I don't know. I didn't, I didn't stimulate that. I didn't develop that. Okay. And a woman got on the phone, introduced herself and said that the UFT wanted to join us in Prince Edward. Okay. So then I was responsible for bringing it, the UFT group and ours together. Okay. I remember that. I don't know who did all the work. I mean, I, I I'm sure. I knew at the time. Figuring out the curriculum. You know, the real work. The teachers. How things would work every day. And so on and so forth. So, some of my colleagues must remember that they did it. Okay. I did become a teacher like everybody else. But, I wasn't responsible for organizing the curriculum or doing any of that serious work. The work was, I would say, pretty evenly distributed among whatever the group was. Twenty or twenty-five people. Okay, go ahead.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1818.0,1947.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. So, you went down to meet Reverend Griffin alone? Or were you with?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1947.0,1956.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Alone. Alone.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1956.0,1956.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Can you talk a little bit more? I know. I, if I could remember, right, Rachel Weddington was that link to Reverend Griffin and that's how sort of the project got started. What you remember in terms of their their guidance and their advisor, like supervisory position, in leading the students. Not only Rachel's, but Sid's.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1956.0,1978.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Rachel and Sid, you mean? Yeah. I do remember that there was a fair amount of interaction. Probably not only between them and me, but between a bunch of us and the two of them. I don't remember what went on, you know, when we met with them and so on. I do remember that at Sid's house in Long Beach we had a training session. And I thought that was very, very good. You know, how would we deal with this or that type of situation— some of which emerged when we were down there.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=1978.0,2011.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: So more so social situations than how to teach?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2011.0,2014.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yes. I don't remember any preparation and I had no background at all in, in pedagogy. Okay. Others did. I didn't. So there might've been some sessions on that. Probably there were. And probably Rachel and Sid completely by themselves organized that. I mean, with, with people in our group, but they were in charge of it. But I don't recall any of it. My role was really raise the money, kind of help in selecting the leaders, the whole group, bring in the UFT. And then kind of staying on top of things a little bit when I was down there. But the, the workload was distributed across many people. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2014.0,2062.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. It just makes me think, just to add another point, Stan, in an interview that he did with Mike and Annie back in July mentioned that the Student Help Project really highlighted a lot of everybody's individual talents. And that sounds like what you're saying. Stan, I, he says that he was very good at sort of being the head of things. You sound like you were very organized in terms of your background before that. So it's, it's interesting to see the comparisons that both of you have said.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2062.0,2097.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yeah. So you, you said whatever ten minutes ago. You know, you're interested in how things developed in people's lives. Okay. So it's a little discomforting to talk about oneself too much, but it's an interview, so I've got to do it. But, the way that I led that project turned out to be the way I ran a lot of other things, almost everything subsequently in my life. Okay. And to be accurate—not modest or immodest or anything like that— the key thing was to always get wonderful people to work with. Okay. And I could give you a long list of, who knows, the ten major things that I did in my life, but it's not pap. You really can't do anything seriously by yourself. Okay. And for better and, one time, for worse the key thing is the people who you select to work with you. And one time I made a mistake in hiring too quickly and too casually a person who was a little bit off as well as her spouse. And the cost of putting a, an, a, a problematic person in a serious position can be quite high. And costly very generally. In the Student Help Project, we had nothing but wonderful people. There wasn't a single problematic troublemaker kind of person. Okay. And how that exactly happened, I don't know. But, you know, it was, it was a team. Rachel and Sid were terrific. And Stan and Mike and Roz and all the others, you know. And I don't want to leave out names. There were many other people. Okay, I'll give you an example. Have you spoken to Caroline Hubbard?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2097.0,2216.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Not yet.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2216.0,2216.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Okay. So she was, I believe, the only African-American in our group. Oh, there was one. I think it was one of the, it might've been a fundraiser. She and I did and a fund... We made an appearance. We were invited to something. It might've been a fundraiser at the Apollo Theater on 125th Street in Manhattan. Okay. So, she was pretty important in that project. And that was one particular event. It was probably another fundraiser. Okay. And I don't know enough about all that Carolyn did from then on, but she was important in the picture too. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2216.0,2257.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Sure. And so getting into like the heart of the project itself, how did you feel that you were going to have to give up six weeks of your summer? I mean, I'm thinking just as a teenager that probably either you were really excited or, you know, you had some feelings about leaving New York. You said you had never traveled before.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2257.0,2277.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yes. Well, it didn't bother me. It was okay. Frankly, just have fun. I had a girlfriend at the time and maybe the hardest thing was, you know, not being with her for the summer. Then I came back two or three days early— for her. Okay. But other than that, I didn't think that I was, you know, forgoing money or a career enhancing thing. I don't think I thought about that in terms of. I thought about it really, to be honest with you, in its own terms. I didn't think about what preceded it, what motivated it, what might succeed it. Okay. Something did come out of that, which I didn't look for or exploit once it came up. There was a man named— you've probably heard his name already— Robert Green. I think that was Bob Green. At that time I think he might've been a Dean at Michigan State. I think he became the first President of Federal City College. Okay. I don't know what its name is today, whether it exists or whatever. Okay. So, somehow in my second year of graduate school, he tracked— two years after we were there. And that's... Okay. So let's say, sometime in 1965, he tracked me down in Madison. Okay. And he at that time had given up whatever position he had and he was working full time for Martin Luther King in Atlanta. And he was in charge. His portfolio was something to do with education. Okay. He was a very elegant and special man. And he asked me to leave graduate school and come to work full time. For him. There. And then I had a professor kind of my, maybe my most important teacher in graduate school. And by chance, he happened to be the designer of the antipoverty program of Lyndon Johnson. Okay. But he had finished that. He was back at school. And when I got that call and the invitation from Bob Green, I didn't know what to do with it. I never thought about that. And my thought was I'm going through and getting my PhD. Okay. Well, you know, there was a little bit inviting. And so I went to professor Robert Lampman, L-A-M-P-M-A-N, and asked him if I could talk to him about this. And he said, yes, but we have to go out for lunch. I said, okay. And he said to me at lunch, \"Look, this is very inviting, Leonard.\" Okay. You can imagine the times, Victoria. You know, civil rights, this, Martin Luther King, go to work full time. You're 23 years old. It all sounds very... He said, \"You're going to have to make a choice right now. If you go to work for Martin Luther King, which I'm not opposing\"— he was a very liberal man— \"you will never get your PhD and your academic career is over. So decide now whether you want to be an academic or whether you want to go into a different kind of work. \" And I would never have thought about that. And I thought about it then for whatever, a day or two. And I decided to decline the offer that Bob Green offered and I sit in graduate school and that was it. I, I didn't think I was giving up anything and I didn't think of it as leading to anything. I was doing it in and of itself. And basically because Sid and Rachel had asked me to do it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2277.0,2517.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And I forget if it was you or Rosalind who brought it up, but she. I believe it was her who asked me just to talk about, if you could talk about the ride down there. Cause I know everybody had to go on their own. If you can remember.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2517.0,2536.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Well, I remember the ride down there for one reason. Okay. As I told you, my sister was a student at Queens and together we bought a car for $1,400. Okay. \n[laughs] It was, it became quite a. I don't care about cars, but it became a thing. Okay. A 1960 I don't know. I don't know. Whatever. A Bel Air Chevy convertible. And I remember only because I have a few photographs from that time driving down and who was in the car. Okay. So I remember that trip. And I remember the trip back with one of the UFT people. But that was it. I don't. We probably had a very, very good time and I was very friendly with Roz because her boyfriend, her husband later. Later to be her husband and I were very, very close friends. He wouldn't go. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2536.0,2595.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right. She mentioned that. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2595.0,2598.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: And I think he didn't go. Frankly, I don't mind saying this. She had the guts, he didn't. To be frank. I can be candid once in a while. Frankly, he talked a good game. She played a good game. Big difference. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2598.0,2618.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right. And so before you sort of get to Prince Edward County. I know I'm jumping a little bit, but did you have any fears, anxieties, expectations about what it was going to feel or be like living with black families? And how did the sort of reality of being down there compare?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2618.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: No, the fact of the matter is probably I should have thought about those things. I didn't. In retrospect, I kind of am amazed that my parents let me go. Okay. I was 21, but whatever. Okay. So I didn't approach it with any thoughts, anxieties, hopes, or anything like that. I was just kind of into doing it. Okay. But then there was a very bad incident. One day there were two things of which to make note. One is one day I lost the keys to that Chevy convertible. And I don't know how that happened. Okay. And I had to go to a hardware store. And I went to a hardware store and it was just before five o'clock. The teaching day was over. Okay. And when I get into the store, all of a sudden I realized that I was there with two men and a woman. And one of the men went to the door and locked it shortly after I got in. Okay. And then the three of them surrounded me. And one of the men held a pitchfork and deliberately and maliciously slammed it down into the floor right next to my foot. And then he looked at me or he or one of the other two. One of the two others. He said, \"Tell me, are you, Eytalyan\"— that was his pronunciation— \"or Jewish?\". And I knew that that was a perilous moment. And I said, \"Which is worse? Being an Italian or Jewish?\" That was my answer. \n[laughs] Okay. I had an experience worse than that in the airport in Damascus, Syria many years later. Okay. Where three security agents for the Assad government, the father of the current Assad, asked me while interrogating me there, \"Are you Jewish?\" They didn't say Jewish. They said, \"What's your religion?\" Okay. So that was a scary moment .Somehow they let me out. Okay. And I do remember one of the things along those lines— and I think it's very important to note— I don't know whether William Vanden Heuvel is still alive. His daughter might still be the editor or whatever of The Nation— if it still exists— the magazine. Okay. William Vanden Heuel, at that time was some kind of a senior deputy to Robert Kennedy when he was the Attorney General. Okay. And he called me one day from Washington and told me who he was. And said that he would like to come down because Attorney General Robert Kennedy wanted to attend to our security.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2640.0,2817.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And this is while you were already in Prince Edward County?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2817.0,2819.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: We were already there. Yeah. How he found me and all that I have, who knows. And he showed up with FBI agents that we never saw. We never knew. Okay. To attend to the security situation. That was something that stuck with me forever, because what I noted and appreciated was that Robert Kennedy never said anything to the world about what he was doing. That he just did it. Okay. And years later, when I was doing my work at Harvard on the Middle East, I had a woman on my board— Marjorie Benton from Chicago— who knew Kathleen Kennedy, one of the daughters of Robert and Ethel. Okay? And I asked to Marjorie to arrange a lunch for me with Kathleen so I could tell her this story about what her dad did. So, other than that, I don't remember kind of living with anxiety or foreboding or anything like that. We were probably all conscious of it, but people largely left us alone. At least that was my experience. And then when it was over, it was over. And I think with all credit to the others like Stan and Mike, they continued on with the work. I didn't. I went off to graduate school and that was that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2819.0,2915.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And so just to elaborate more on the the fact that Robert Kennedy comes down with these FBI agents for security, in what sense did they feel that you needed or the students needed that?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2915.0,2931.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yes. Good question, Victoria. Robert Kennedy didn't come down. William Vanden Heuvel came down.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2931.0,2936.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. My mistake.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2936.0,2936.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: He was sent by Robert Kennedy. Okay. Because the Prince Edward thing, I mean, you probably know this now better than I do, was a fairly visible event nationwide. Okay. Robert Kennedy sent down William Vanden Heuvel and William Vanden Heuvel made it public that he was there. I think basically to give a message to people around the county that the Attorney General's office in Washington was aware of the situation. Okay. It was not just going to let anything happen there. Okay. So I think it was kind of a general signaling thing that the Justice Department was paying attention to what was going on there, and no one should think otherwise. And I remember him playing baseball with us and kind of hanging around and kind of making his presence visible, and nothing ever happened to my knowledge.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2936.0,2995.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And nobody around in the community took that as sort of a threatening force?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2995.0,2999.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: I don't know. I don't know. Okay. We didn't. You know, in my experience we didn't have any—I would say it's almost an absolute— we didn't have any contact with white people in the community except for a little, you know, ridiculous incident like the hardware store thing that I just mentioned. Basically, we were part of the black community and I don't know that we got any feedback from anybody else. Maybe others in our group did. I didn't.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=2999.0,3031.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Sure. And so you, you did say before that you were surprised that your parents let you go down. And what, what's the reason for you saying that they were, that you didn't expect them to say yes..\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3031.0,3046.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: In retrospect, I, I thought that. Just having become a parent eventually, I thought that. Okay. I didn't think about it at the time. And I thought, you know, my mother, I mean, you know. I mean, at that time, for example, I think we knew— I don't remember exactly when Andrew, when Schwerner and Goodman were killed. Okay. But there weren't that many of those events, but we were conscious that those kinds of things were happening. And my mother did follow public affairs. So, in retrospect, I kind of wondered, you know, how my mother took that. And she must have just kind of internalized her anxieties, because she didn't, you know, trouble me with them at all. So... And you know, she couldn't have been a more attentive mother than she was. So it wasn't the lack of attentiveness or anything like that. So that's that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3046.0,3106.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And so, can you just tell me what an average day for you was like in Farmville? You said you did teach.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3106.0,3115.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yes, I did teach. I taught like everybody else. Okay. I remember just going into class, I don't remember what we were doing exactly. Reading and writing. I would just say fundamentals, basics. Okay. I don't remember special things like discussions or anything like that. So the average day was just going to class in one of the churches and having your students there. We were using the churches as classroom buildings all courtesy and arranged by Reverend Griffin. Okay. And I think our lives were pretty much humdrum. Teach and go home and have dinner with the people with whom you were living. I don't even know how much we got together in the evening. Okay. It was all a very kind of quiet, subdued, routine existence as far as I know. As I recall. And then there was just one thing that came up— maybe it happened more than once, but only once that I recall. One of my students was a young boy named Anthony Farley. F-A-R-L-E-Y. And he came up to me one day alone and he said to me, you know— he was 12 years old. Okay. He said, \"Basically I'm stuck.\" Okay. \"Can you help me to go on from here?\" Okay. I had never thought about that. I was 21 years old. Right? And I remember feeling so badly, you know, that there was nothing that I could do. Okay. We didn't think about that at all to my knowledge, to my recollection. What would we do for these kids once we left? I think that what did happen and I don't know what cause and effect are here. Okay. So I don't want to get carried away. I think what did happen was that others became interested in Prince Edward. And maybe, maybe the work that we did was publicized a little bit— not deliberately by me— and got the message to others that there was this county in which virtually none of the black children were getting any education. Okay. So, things started to happen— and you would know the history now better than I— for the black kids in Prince Edward. But, I didn't have any direct hand in them. And I... So I thought of my life as kind of contained. Do the teaching. Finish the work. Go home. I did give a talk to the entering class in September '63 at Queens College. Okay. They asked me to talk to all the students. And that was a meaningful event. And that was, that talk was the last thing I ever did connected to that. I did get to wonder afterwards— and I say this with a little bit of criticism. Why was it when the situation was so unusual, so unusually bad that only Rich, Rachel and Sid had the idea of doing something? Okay. There were all these civil rights organizations. There were the teachers' unions. Okay. There was this and there was that. Political people. All kinds of people. Okay. None of them did anything. No one did anything. In the entire United States. And it all happened only because of two professors at Queens College.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3115.0,3357.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3357.0,3358.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: In retrospect, it's just hard to believe. Okay. But that's the reality. And what, how they got onto it and got together, I don't know But it was all their initiative. And then I think what happened afterwards. You know from the others.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3358.0,3377.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. And, and just as an outside perspective, before I knew any details about Student Help and the work that you guys went down there and did, it seemed very striking that these group of students from Queens College, nonetheless, in, in sort of the middle of Queens— not that anybody in the country would really know— were doing education-based activist work. And that, wasn't something that I had heard about, you know, in my own schooling growing up. This take on activism and in a different respect that was really like boots on the ground, was obviously very interesting. Yeah. I do share that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3377.0,3417.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Interesting. Very unusual and all to the credit of those two people, Rachel and Sid. Kind of amazing. So, anyhow, go ahead.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3417.0,3429.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. So how did your students react to having been denied a public education?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3429.0,3436.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: I don't remember ever having a single conversation about that. Maybe we did. Okay. I certainly never heard, I don't think— I'm pretty certain— any complaint. They were there and they came to school and they were sweet kids and they did that work. And that was it. It was all, I would say in retrospect, kind of almost out of context. Very apolitical. We were there doing our nuts and bolts teaching. And that was it. Now, you know, I was one of whatever number of teachers— 20, 30, whatever the number was. Forty. How many were there in total? Do you know?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3436.0,3474.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: I believe there were 17 from your Queens College core. 17 students who went down. But with the UFT, I'm not sure the total number.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3474.0,3483.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Okay. So I don't remember any political discussions. Okay. Any kind of context discussions. I'm sure that here and there we'd pick things up. But I think we were just kind of doing our work and maybe that was just my own way, my own take on it and so on and so forth. And that was it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3483.0,3505.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And just what was going on around Prince Edward County. I know some others have mentioned demonstrations that might've been happening in the area that kind of Rachael pulled them away from. Anything particular that you can remember? Or did you want to join in on other demonstrations?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3505.0,3524.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: To my recollection, Victoria, I joined in nothing else. Okay. I think I did only the work related to teaching the kids. And, also in retrospect, having been at Brandeis and MIT and Harvard—but particularly at Brandeis and Harvard— I did think about the fact that steps that were taken to assist disadvantaged black kids were not thought of, were not thought out well in terms of, you know, what might ensue. Okay. Now we were just little kids. We were basically 21 year old kids. Okay. So, I want to have perspective on that. But you know, no one thought about what was next. Okay. And how to, you know, and so on and so forth. I noticed that later on, too. So you know. But okay. We, we, we were 21 year old kids and we did our little thing and that was it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3524.0,3595.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: So in that respect, do you feel that you had an impact on the students when they went to school that fall?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3595.0,3603.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Hmmm. Look I, I never, I never thought about that. Okay. To be honest with you. So I think that maybe since you asked the question today in the middle of the pandemic, it was good to have the kids in school. Okay. And some of them, most of them, nearly all of them were really not in school for four years at all. I don't know what they were doing. So, I think it was probably good to have them in school. I think it probably helped them a little bit. Only a little bit. What is a few weeks do, you know? Stuff do?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3603.0,3645.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Compared to four years that they had lost.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3645.0,3649.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Right. \n[Note: The following was said in connection to a phone call that came in: Let me get rid of this too. So I got to. Hold this. This is from Saudi Arabia. Hold on. Mohammed. Mohammed?]. Oh, okay. I'll call him later. \n[laughs] You just see two ends of my life. This is a wonderful guy. So... I think that it was very much contained. And maybe we helped the kids a little bit. And we didn't think, you know. But others did pick up, you know, the torch and think about what to do for the kids, subsequently. So I have thought about a number, a few particular things like. Relating to Reverend Griffin's son who's called Skippy. Skippy is well along in his years now. Okay. I, I've, I thought about what an incredible decision Reverend Griffin had to make, basically alone, when the white leaders of the County said to him, we're closing the public schools. You can have a private, racially segregated set of schools, if you wish. Or if you don't, you have nothing. I can't imagine being faced with that choice. So I do remember that. I do remember thinking about that and I've thought about it many times since. But, our work was just confined in my view. I think that others in the group—these aren't the kids— the teachers were affected by the experience. And I think that probably led to work that they did for the rest of their lives.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3649.0,3786.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes. Most definitely. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3786.0,3789.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: It didn't affect me. The only thing that I think that it led to was this civil rights stuff— but it was very spotty— that I did when I was a faculty member at NC State. Probably I wouldn't have done that if I hadn't been in Raleigh. I mean, if I hadn't been in Prince Edward. Okay. So that affected me for a little bit. And probably, you know, kind of. But that was pretty much it. So, I think that we came, we helped the kids a little bit and then we just, by and large just walked away.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3789.0,3827.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: All right. And you said you left three days earlier, a few days early. So did you, you didn't attend the March on Washington for jobs and freedom on August 28th?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3827.0,3839.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: No, I think I did. But what year was that ?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3839.0,3844.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: In '63. That wasn't, that wasn't The March on Washington, I believe. Yeah,\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3844.0,3851.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: No, no, no, no. I think I went later on to a. I can't remember— I went to some marches in Washington— whether they were civil rights related or Vietnam related. I don't recall.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3851.0,3865.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. But after Prince Edward?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3865.0,3867.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yeah. It was after Prince Edward, but I might not have been in the thing in '63. I doubt that I was.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3867.0,3873.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Sure. I only ask cause Mike and Stan, they, they brought up that on the way back to New York. That was. They stopped along the way for a march.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3873.0,3883.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Oh yeah. I definitely was not there.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3883.0,3885.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. Okay. No problem. And so to kind of bring this all together in terms of your Prince Edward County experience, when you returned to New York at the end of the summer did anything change in how you viewed society? Were you more attuned to social injustice and racism when you came home? Even, even though your communities were predominantly white, you said,\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3885.0,3910.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: I would say that, you know, it's certainly made me more aware of the injustice that was done to these kids and children like them. Okay. So in that terms, in those terms, it had an enduring effect. Okay. And recently, when I was talking to Reverend Griffin's son on the phone, he was telling me about his reaction to the George Floyd phenomenon— not necessarily the event. And I was a little bit surprised by what he was telling me. I think that. Look, today— to be serious with you— I have a different view from a lot of people with whom I worked at that time. I would say that outside of my personal concerns, my number one enduring concern is the education of black children. And I mean only black children. Okay. Because I think that alongside of native Americans, indigenous people, they were the ones— and no one else— who had anything like slavery and segregation and extreme grotesque discrimination in their family and their community histories. Okay. So, I would say that probably that experience left me with that concern, you know. If you asked me, Leonard, are you concerned about minimum wages or this or that or healthcare or whatever? No. Not compared to that. That's my social concern. So frankly, your question is provoking me to think, you know, about why do I have this kind of political, social concern today as opposed to all others. And it probably came from that. Okay. I didn't go into that, as I've told you, with that kind of a concern. I think I emerged from it with that kind of concern. Now, where I part company with a lot of my peers is I'm very anti teachers' unions. Extremely. Okay. I watch on a daily basis in Massachusetts and reading the Times and other media, how the teachers' unions have closed down the schools on kids always saying, okay, \"Pandemic, pandemic, and there's nothing to be done\". Okay. And I have today in New York, three grandchildren. Son, daughter-in-law and their three boys. And all three boys, Victoria, go to a private school because my son and daughter-in-law can afford it. Okay. They're in all grades. They're in grades zero through four. They go full time every day. Okay. And where I part company with a lot of people is that I know that they go to school and maintain their health because their parents can afford it. And frankly it bothers me. And I think it's. I could use strong words. I don't need to get emotional here. I think it's wrong that other kids can't go to school. And in my view, they can't go to school overwhelmingly, not because of the health situation. It's because of the teachers' unions. In my view. I'm giving you a political sermon because you provoked me, but I'm not into an argument with you. And your father or mother, or who knows, could be this or that. And I don't mean to be offensive. Okay. So I watched the struggle between the Mayor of New York and the teacher's unions, the various and the principals' unions. You know it all better than I do. Okay. So, I would say that. You know, maybe this is helpful to me, the interview is. Because I did, I do have this one enduring concern. And I do see things differently from a lot of others who may have the same kind of concern. And I do see these kinds of children being handicapped once again and largely, Victoria, it goes uncriticized. You know. My view is that what the teachers' unions in New York and Boston and Los Angeles are doing is a little bit similar to what the white people did in Prince Edward. They're keeping the kids out of school. Okay. And I watched what de Blasio says and so on and so forth. And I don't think they need to keep the kids out of school. And I understand some parents, even when they can send the kids to school, are afraid of doing it and so on. But, it's their choice. Okay. So the last line of this— and I'm sorry for the digression. I didn't anticipate this. Okay. I hope it's not irrelevant. I'm very much a fan of charter schools. And I noticed that in Boston and New York and in the state of Florida, the waiting lists of black families trying to get their kids into charter schools are long and enduring. Okay. And I believe that those parents in behalf of their kids should have the same opportunity, the same choice that my son and daughter-in-law have.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=3910.0,4290.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4290.0,4290.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Okay. Right. So what baffles me today, is that we allow this to go on and we're handicapping the kids. I would think, especially in two thousand and twenty, we shouldn't want to handicap, but we do handicap. So I'm sorry. You triggered it. I hope I'm not being offensive here, but you did something which I haven't thought about. Okay. I really don't pay attention to the other social issues. I do like everybody else. But that's kind of the driving concern that I have in the U.S.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4290.0,4326.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. And I, and I. Again, it's, it's very interesting to hear your point and thank you for sharing it. Because it's, it's, it's I guess thought provoking to see the conversation that we're having now and your opinions on the situation and in respect to Prince Edward County, you know. How would this conversation be different if we weren't having to do this through zoom in, in the climate of a pandemic. So, all of these factors really affect. You know, whether they were in 1963 or they're happening now...\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4326.0,4358.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: You're totally right. I have to give you the credit that we interviewed. I wouldn't have put it together.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4358.0,4364.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Thank you. I'm glad that it's going well.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4364.0,4368.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: You've done a good thing. I didn't think about this at all. Okay. Good .\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4368.0,4372.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. And just to come to the end of more of the reflection side of the questions, can you describe any specific stories or experiences that stand out to you that touched you while you were working with the Student Help Project?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4372.0,4393.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: I think it was the Anthony Farley experience which I related to you. Okay. I think that. I've I thought about that boy, you know, a lot. I mean, he so, he was, he realized that he was just lost. Okay. He was only 12 years old. And to think about that kid and, you know, he was reaching out, you know. What was I? A 21 year old college student or graduate. Okay. He had nothing better to do. We had no better option than to ask me for help. He ended up being an engineer on whatever, Southern Pacific Railway. Okay. So, his life didn't end in disaster. But he was a serious kid. He wanted to learn. And who knows what happened to him after that? So I think that that little experience one afternoon with Anthony kind of left me with a sense of what those kids were like, you know, how difficult it was for them. And even among them, you know, there were differences in the opportunities that later emerged in life. Okay. I mean, I say this all very nicely. I really liked skip Griffin, but he ended up fine. Okay. And he went to Harvard College and so on and so forth, and he's a wonderful guy. Just like his father. Totally sensible person. Everything like that. But, these other kids were stranded and they had no way out, you know. And I don't think that, I don't think that we think socially really carefully with all of our attention to mistreatment based on race. I don't think we think carefully about how to help these kids. We did some things— and not to criticize everybody— but much more room for improvement there.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4393.0,4525.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. And it, it's interesting to hear, like, in all, in all of the discussions that we've had so far with them, the students who were helping in the project down in Virginia, the awareness that the students themselves had of being out of school is definitely interesting, you know. Particularly, I, I I'm assuming at this point, but as a white student this wouldn't have affected a lot of, a lot of different people down in Prince Edward County or necessarily grabbed the attention of people in New York. But to be a young black student and have these affect you on the, on the daily is, is very interesting. So, and that sounds...\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4525.0,4567.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: To affect what?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4567.0,4567.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: To affect these students on the daily. It sounds like Anthony Farley kind of had that, that awareness. Young student. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4567.0,4574.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yeah. I think they did. I, I, I'm hearing that we had maybe a little bit of discussions with the other kids, but I don't remember that, any of it, really. I do remember that one. And I think it was illustrative. So... Go ahead.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4574.0,4594.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: So, this is sort of a loaded question, but how did this experience make a difference in your life? I know we touched upon it a little in the beginning when you introduced yourself. But, maybe in the immediate coming back to New York and in 1963, how did you see it as a college student maybe to inform your future personally and professionally?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4594.0,4621.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Well, the accurate answer is to you, I didn't think of it being connected to anything that I did subsequently— except what I did in Raleigh. Okay. And there too, I did that at the behest of my wife and closest friend. I, and then the people kind of came to me. I didn't go to that meeting in Chapel Hill even because of myself. I was busy with my own work and my wife and my closest friend to this day got me into that. Got me to that kind of gathering at Chapel Hill. Okay. So, I would say that, in a conscious way, the experience didn't connect to anything that happened subsequently. You know, again, everybody's a little bit different. When I got to that meeting at Chapel Hill in April '68, I just thought I was one of, it was like a few thousand people there. Okay. I was one of them. I didn't go there with any special passion. I knew what happened to King. I knew how outrageous it was. I was willing to go. So... so, I didn't think of a— and I have never thought of my life being, you know, focused around civil rights stuff. Now, you know, Mohammed called completely by chance. Okay. He lives in Riyadh. Of the many, many friends, basically wealthy business men—that's who you met— that I have in the Arab world. He's my closest friend. Okay. We've related to each other for 25 years. And we're doing important things today that follow up on the Abraham Accords. I can't even tell you what we're doing. Very good, but very serious. Okay. I think maybe the experience kind of opened me to working with different types of people. You know, I grew up. As I told you, I grew up, okay, very narrow existence. Okay. So, maybe it affected me in that way, but as I compare myself with others, I didn't emerge. And even this Arab Israeli work, as I told you— whatever, a half hour ago— wasn't my idea. As I developed it, the ideas became mine about what to do next, but the idea was not mine. I think that I've never kind of done anything like this—which was a huge chunk of my life and today it's about 95% of my life. Okay. And, you know, I could go on and on about that. I don't think I got into it because of any passion. I think I got into it because people asked me. As I said to you, reasonable people, making reasonable requests asked me to do this or that. And then I got to enjoy it. Okay. I'm not driven by this or that. So maybe it had an effect, but not in a very conscious way. And the politics, the political thinking, as I told you— maybe at too great a length about— you know, how we mistreat K through 12 kids who are black in our big cities today. Maybe that, maybe my focus comes out of that. Okay. But you know, I'm not a. One of my closest friends was, today is a former Dean of faculty for 20 years at Harvard. Okay. One day commenting on my Arab Israeli work, Henry Rosovsky is his name, said to me— I was in his apartment having tea or we were having lunch— said, \"Leonard, peaceniks like you and me\". And I said to him— because we're very close friends. I said, \"Henry, I'm not a peacenik. \"Okay. The work that I'm doing which you like so much— in which I got him involved— may inspire you as a peacemaker, but that's not how I got into it. Okay. So you're interviewing me. I'm being candid with you. That's how it works for me. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4621.0,4914.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. So, I'm just looking. A lot of the questions that I, that I have following up on that, you've answered in your, in your response. So, kind of the last question— and I, and I hope this isn't redundant— how did the Student Help experience influence overall your, your, any motivation to make social change or outlook on race relations? I know you've ...\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4914.0,4946.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Yeah. No. No. It's all right that you ask. Incidentally, I'll tell you 10 times, you're a great interviewer. Okay. So I mean it. Okay. I think that maybe it got me to see and therefore focus me on who really has experienced injustice. Okay. I don't think that everybody who clamors that this or that is injustice, is necessarily right. Okay. And I do think there are priorities. So I think that. You know, when I was doing this work at Harvard, I was once asked by the— you remember the former president of Egypt? There's a man named Hosni Mubarak.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=4946.0,5016.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=5016.0,5016.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: So Mubarak's chief foreign policy advisor and I became good buddies. He is the guy,. The guy who put together the Oslow process between the Israelis and the Palestinians. And one day, a few years ago— who knows; probably in the nineties— we did a tour together of Egyptian Coptic churches in California. Now, doing this work, I got to know for the first time in my life, Victoria, that there was such a thing as an Egyptian Copt. I never paid attention to that. And then coming out of that tour, we spoke to one jam packed large Egyptian Coptic church in California after another, over a period of few days. Okay. I got to think of who in America thinks of an immigrant group called Egyptian Copts, who largely are escapees from Islamic extremism in Egypt. Okay. You know that churches have been bombed by nut cakes and so on and so forth. Okay. So, I think that. I don't think of every group in the country that claims to be mistreated as having been mistreated. And there are a lot of groups around, most of whom we don't pay attention to. Okay. But black Americans. Look, you know, I'm Jewish. Okay. We had a a bombing of a synagogue in Pittsburgh. Okay. I'm certainly attentive of that. Okay. Well, you know, very much attentive to that. But, whatever antisemitism we experienced in this country— not to discard it, not to, you know, ignore it. Okay. It's not what blacks have experienced. So, I think that that experience in Prince Edward left me with a sense of what they experienced— which is so fundamentally different and so fundamentally bad and wrong and so forth. So a lot of people might think of me as being unsympathetic to others, but I guess it's that I'm just more sympathetic, as a social matter, to them. That's all.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=5016.0,5178.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Of course. Yeah. I appreciate your, your perspective on that. Yeah. I don't have any other questions, so I'll ask if you had anything else you wanted to add before we end.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=5178.0,5188.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: No, I'm really very happy. I'd love to meet you sometime when there isn't. If you get people together, whatever. I'll be available. And I thank you very much for this. I really seriously do think you did a good job. I hope I've been helpful to you. Okay. And if you need to come back, feel free.\n\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=5188.0,5203.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Definitely. Yes. Thank you so much for your help today.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=5203.0,5206.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Have a good day.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=5206.0,5207.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: All right. You too.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=5207.0,5208.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294/transcript/21693/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeonard Hausman: Okay. Take care.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/35272/file/104294#t=5208.0,5209.68"}]}]}]}