{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/t72794226r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Steve Schwerner Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eDr. Steve Schwerner worked in the Queens College counseling office from 1963 to 1976, starting out as an intern and working his way up to director of counseling. In 1976, he left Queens to become Dean of Students at Antioch College in Ohio, his alma mater; after 15 years in that position, he taught a variety of courses at the school until his retirement in 2003. He and his wife, Nancy, then returned to New York City to live closer to their family.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Schwerner recalls the years he spent at Queens, which included some of the most tumultuous days of the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War movements. A lifetime activist, Schwerner served as faculty advisor to the college’s chapter of the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE) and later, in response to increasing anti-war sentiment, became the first draft counselor at the school. He also reflects on the outpouring of support he received from the campus community when, in the summer of 1964, his brother Michael (Mickey) Schwerner was killed by the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi, along with fellow Civil Rights activists James Chaney and Andrew Goodman. \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAs a retiree, Schwerner enjoys spending time with his children and grandchildren and listening to his beloved collection of jazz recordings. Although he says he can no longer participate in marches, he continues to support social justice efforts such as Black Lives Matter and advocates for full funding for CUNY.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1937-2022 (temporal)","Queens College, Queens, NY; Bronx, NY; Brooklyn, NY; Pelham, NY; Antioch College, Yellow Springs, OH (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-04-12 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Steve Schwerner (Interviewee)","Fran Kipnis (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/45918"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eDr. Steve Schwerner worked in the Queens College counseling office from 1963 to 1976, starting out as an intern and working his way up to director of counseling. In 1976, he left Queens to become Dean of Students at Antioch College in Ohio, his alma mater; after 15 years in that position, he taught a variety of courses at the school until his retirement in 2003. He and his wife, Nancy, then returned to New York City to live closer to their family.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn this interview, Schwerner recalls the years he spent at Queens, which included some of the most tumultuous days of the Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War movements. A lifetime activist, Schwerner served as faculty advisor to the college\u0026rsquo;s chapter of the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE) and later, in response to increasing anti-war sentiment, became the first draft counselor at the school. He also reflects on the outpouring of support he received from the campus community when, in the summer of 1964, his brother Michael (Mickey) Schwerner was killed by the Ku Klux Klan in Mississippi, along with fellow Civil Rights activists James Chaney and Andrew Goodman.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAs a retiree, Schwerner enjoys spending time with his children and grandchildren and listening to his beloved collection of jazz recordings. Although he says he can no longer participate in marches, he continues to support social justice efforts such as Black Lives Matter and advocates for full funding for CUNY.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/159/718/small/thumbnail_159718_1652364685.jpg?1652364689","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - SteveSChwerner_4-22-22.mp4"]},"duration":1785.824,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/159/718/small/thumbnail_159718_1652364685.jpg?1652364689","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/159/718/original/SteveSChwerner_4-22-22.mp4?1652364571","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1785.824,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK, I think we're on. So my name is Fran Kipnis and it's April 12th, 2022, at 6:15 pm. And I'm interviewing Steve Schwerner for Queens Memory as part of the 75th anniversary of the Queens College Oral History Project. So again, Steve, thank you so much. And, if we could just start by you telling us a little bit about yourself, where you grew up, a little bit about your family and where you went to school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=2.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, I grew up in the Bronx. We lived in the Bronx until I was 12. And I went to a public school in the Bronx for the first grade and my mother hated it and thought it was a terrible school. So I ended up going to Walden School, which is on West 88th, was at the time on West 88th Street, from second grade to the fifth grade. And then my brother was also going to a private school and my parents really couldn't afford two private schools. So they moved to Pelham in New York, which is in lower Westchester, right above the Bronx, and had one of the better school systems in the area. And I went to sixth grade in Pelham and then Pelham High School. And I told the high school, I remember telling the high school principal that I wanted to go to Antioch College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=40.0,96.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And he said, no, you don't, you don't want to go there. And I said, no, I actually do want to go there. And I ended up getting accepted at Antioch. So I went to Antioch College for five years. It was a five-year school. I don't know how much the people watching this know about Antioch, but it's a co-op school where you work. You go to school for three months, then you work three months and you rotate that through five years. And I was a secondary education major. I took a lot of ed, a lot of jobs in education, like \n[unclear] jobs in education, but a lot were in New York because I could hang out in the jazz world. And that's my other love besides family and teaching is the jazz world. And so I did that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=96.0,141.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And then I graduated from Antioch and went to NYU in a program in counseling psychology. And as part of my internship in counseling psychology, I did, I was accepted at Queens College as an intern in the counseling department. And for two years from, I guess, '63-'64, '64-'65, I was an intern in the Queens College counseling service. And then I became a member of the Queens College counseling service. And ultimately I became the director of the Queens College counseling service. And I was there until 1976, when I got a job as the Dean of Students at Antioch College. They took me back in and I was a dean there for 15 years. And then I taught there for about 13 more after that with the best academic title you could get in higher education. My title was college professor, which let me teach anything I wanted, as long as some department would let me do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=141.0,204.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And I taught a variety of things in education psychology, but also I took a course, I taught a course in jazz history and I took a course, taught a course in the Civil Rights movement. Finally, students convinced me I should do that since aside from my education I was very much a part of the Civil Rights movement. Starting in the late '50s at Antioch. I was part of the NAACP chapter at Antioch, the head of whom was Eleanor Holmes, who's now Eleanor Holmes Norton, Congresswoman from Washington, D.C. And we did some picketing at some bowling alley in Xenia, Ohio. And we did various things. And as soon as I graduated and went to New York, I joined a chapter of CORE, Congress on Racial Equality. I was a member of CORE for a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=204.0,259.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And then in '66 or so, mostly I kind of left the Civil Rights movement because of the anti-war movement. And I was involved in the anti-war movement. I was a draft counselor. I actually became the first draft counselor in New York City, paid by New York City, at Queens College when I became the official draft counselor of the college. There is probably not much of a record of that. But I can go into the detail of that later on. Anyhow, so I stayed at Queens until I went to Antioch. And then, as I say, and then I finally retired from Antioch and moved back to Brooklyn because that's where my kids and my grandchildren were, and that, we've been back in Brooklyn ever since.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=259.0,309.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK. So before I go into a little more depth on Queens College, tell me a little bit about how many children you have and your grandchildren and where they are now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=309.0,318.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: I have two girls. One was born in '65 and the other '68. And I have, each girl has two kids. So I have three granddaughters and one grandson. And they all live in Brooklyn, except my grandson is now in college. But they all live in Brooklyn and it makes it close to us so that we get to see them a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=318.0,343.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Great. And when were you married and where did you get married?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=343.0,347.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Oh, I got married in 1961. I met Nancy at Antioch and we got married in 1961 in a small town in Michigan. And I can't remember the name right now. That's one of the things you'll have to live with in this interview is I'm old and I can't remember a lot of stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=347.0,369.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: That's OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=369.0,370.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And so we got married in Michigan in 1961 and we've been married ever since.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=370.0,376.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: That's great. And did Nancy work, did she have a career?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=376.0,381.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Nancy left Antioch because we got married and she got a degree from NYU. And then she got a master's in library science from Pratt, and she was a full-time librarian. When we moved back to Ohio, she was the head librarian of the Clark County Community College in Springfield, Ohio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=381.0,405.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And she was a librarian for 30 years. And then we both retired. That she vowed, she would never work a day after I left, after I retired. So we both retired at the same time. And as I say, then we moved back to Brooklyn. We had been living in Park Slope in Brooklyn where we bought a brownstone when brownstones were incredibly inexpensive, in 1966. Now God knows what that house is worth now, but when we sold, then we moved to Ohio and then we came back and live in a co-op now in, around Grand Army Plaza.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=405.0,445.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK, great. OK. So now let's sort of go back to Queens College and tell us a little bit, like more specifically, what, what it was like working for the counseling service and then talk a little bit about what you had mentioned around the draft counseling and a little bit about, are there any particular students or faculty and staff associated with that work that particularly rings out for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=445.0,475.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, of course I remember a lot of the people, I don't remember every single name but George Pierson was the Dean of Students who hired me originally. And then when he retired, Dick Covert was the Dean of Students. And Dick Covert was the person who offered me the job as director of the counseling service. When I came to Queens, the head of the counseling service was Bernie Branson and he was my supervisor. All interns of course were supervised. So he was my supervisor. And then I made a number of friends among the, people in the Queens College counseling service. And later on, I got to know a lot of the faculty. Mostly the faculty that I got to know at Queens College were people who were involved in the anti-war movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=475.0,530.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: I think of Ray Franklin and Mike Wreszin and Frank Warren. There were a number of other people on the faculty. And that, I remember one faculty member was, that I met later on, was Sid Trubowitz, who was, I must say, a boyhood idol of mine, because he played basketball for the City College basketball team. And as a kid, I loved the City College basketball team, until a great scandal, when the dumping scandal. But that, and my babysitter in the Bronx went to City College and she brought me autographs of all the City College players. And I said, it was kind of interesting meeting Sid Trubowitz who, as I say, was an idol of mine when I was a little kid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=530.0,580.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right, right. My dad was at City College then, so...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=580.0,584.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, my father went to City College and my mother went to Hunter College, which was at the time only women. And then when I went to Antioch, she went back to get a master's degree in either biology or education or some combination and -- from Queens College. And that, she was for the rest of her career, a biology teacher in New Rochelle High School.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=584.0,613.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Fabulous. And what were some of the issues that were facing the students at the time that you dealt with at the counseling service?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=613.0,624.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, there were a number of -- one of the things that happened is all the students knew that I became the faculty advisor for the College's CORE chapter. And, other, a couple of other left-wing organizations that students formed and that students who had anti-war and left-wing leanings would always ask for me as a counselor. But they didn't want to talk about politics. They wanted to talk about the same things that most kids do when they see a counselor, they wanted to talk about family, relationships, vocations. But I got to know a lot of students because of that. And in fact, some of the students that I got to know, have gone on to be major figures in the City University. Jay Hershenson, I know, is in the Chancellor's Office. \n[Ed. note: At the time of this interview, Jay Hershenson was vice president for communications and marketing and senior advisor to the president at Queens College, after serving as CUNY's vice chancellor of university relations for many years.]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=624.0,679.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And Dave Fields was the person who started the Queens Law School. And, that, the big issue, the first big issue that I can remember about, was open admissions. And that the president for a long time, who was my boss, my ultimate boss was Joe Murphy, who later on, he became the Chancellor of CUNY. And Joe Murphy was a person who espoused the open admissions policy. And his view was, you could accept students with less than the normal requirements, but you couldn't graduate them until they finished their, the normal requirements for graduation. And I think his program was very successful. And, part of it is because he hired young teachers, faculty members who really wanted to be involved in that. And that -- I remember being involved in Queens College politics, as it were, when the college set up a Senate that included students and faculty and staff. I became a member of the steering committee of the Senate for I guess three or four years. And then I became the Chairperson of the Queens College Senate for another three years, before I retired from that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=679.0,764.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And how, can you talk a little bit about how, what the climate, sort of the social-political climate of the college was when you started and how it changed over time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=764.0,774.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, I think Queens was, reasonably -- I'm not sure if I want to put it on a political continuum. I was about to say reasonably conservative, but I don't want to put it on a political continuum. I think most of the kids who would, when I first started Queens, were middle-class kids. And then gradually as open admissions and the SEEK program started, the student body became much more diverse. I think the majority of students were probably women and that I came as an intern the year after Queens College decided that women were allowed to wear pants. They didn't have to wear skirts to school every day. And I think there was a sense of, that the college was training people to be leaders in New York City and that included women being leaders in New York City. And I think they did a fairly good job of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=774.0,836.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And did that, were there changes throughout, or was it on a continuum of just moving towards more diversity and equity?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=836.0,846.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, I can't think offhand of something specific in terms of, that was a dramatic change. I think Joe Murphy becoming president was a change because he was more interested in a diverse student body.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=846.0,864.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And what was it like during the anti-war protests? What, were those, what was the anti-war activity like on campus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=864.0,871.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, there was one big student strike which was in the social science building, right where the counseling offices were. And in fact, I have a picture someplace of a colleague of mine, more partisan than I, standing on a table trying to keep people away from sitting right in front of the counseling offices. But by and large, the counseling staff was seen as people who were at least not opposed to the sit-in and...so the sit-in literally closed the college for a few days. And before that, there was a lot of, there were teach-ins and various things. And that I, as I say, I used to -- that's how I got to know a lot of the, more liberal faculty on the campus -- being involved in anti-war stuff and pro-civil rights stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=871.0,937.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: So now can you talk a little bit about your brother and what happened and what the ramifications of that were at Queens College and how the Queens College community reacted to that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=937.0,949.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, in, when I say in 1961, when I graduated, my wife and I joined the New York CORE chapter called Downtown CORE, which was in lower Manhattan. And my brother and his wife moved to Brooklyn in '62, and they were also members of the CORE chapter. He was much more, he was a student in the Columbia School of Social Work. And he was working at the Hamilton-Madison House -- a settlement house. And that he was also very much more involved in sit-ins and he was much braver than I was. I would sit in front of a building and with arms locked, but he would at one point or another, got, laid down in front of a bulldozer at the, when they were building the Rutgers Houses \n[a public housing project in lower Manhattan].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=949.0,1007.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And that he, and his wife, Rita, who graduated from Queens College also in 1961, I believe, and was an English teacher. We both applied to go to Mississippi after the bombings of the church in Birmingham which killed four little girls. And that, so he and Rita became the heads of the civil rights movement in Meridian, Mississippi. In 1964, he was training for Freedom Summer in Oxford, Ohio, and then called back down. And he went with Jim Chaney, who was a local person who joined CORE, and one of the volunteers, Andy Goodman. And that's when they got killed. And Andy was a student at Queens College. So there are various memorials at Queens College to the three -- Jim Chaney and Andy and Mickey. And then I remember when for the six weeks when they were quote missing, although we knew they were killed, but, they were, the bodies were missing for six weeks. Everybody at Queens College was very, very kind to me and very nurturing and, and very helpful in terms of helping me get through that time period.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1007.0,1103.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And what, what types of things did the college do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1103.0,1108.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well at first, the college didn't do very much of anything. There were various students who joined the Civil Rights movement, and the college felt, I don't think officially, the college took a position one way or the other. Although, as I say, there were very many faculty members who were quite sympathetic and supportive of the students. And that, after I left Queens -- I left in 1976 -- and sometime after that is when the memorials starting getting built. And as I say, right now, it's a major event in the history of the college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1108.0,1150.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right. Can you talk a little bit about the memorial?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1150.0,1154.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, there's a plaque and there's a clock tower, as I believe. I've been there a long time ago. As I say, my mind is not, and doesn't remember everything I should. But that I think Queens takes it very personally that they were part of that movement. And there were a lot of Queens alumni who were, came out at various times to the memorials. And at one point, Rita, my ex-sister-in-law, spoke at Queens and there was a big crowd of alumni who came out to see her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1154.0,1198.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK. And then, do you, you talked about faculty and staff that sort of were very important to you. Were there any particular students at Queens College that you had relationships with that...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1198.0,1216.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well, I can remember the names of some students, but I was their counselor, so I won't give their names.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1216.0,1225.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK, that's fine. Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1225.0,1225.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: That are part of the CUNY right now, Jay Hershenson and Dave Fields were people that I knew as students. But Dave was, for instance, the parliamentarian of the Queens College Senate. And that's, I really got to become very friendly with David, through that work, but not through my work as a counselor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1225.0,1247.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK. All right. And then, so tell me a little bit about what you have done since you've retired from Queens \n[Antioch] College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1247.0,1256.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Oh, well, what I do. As retired, I spend a lot of time with my family. We're very lucky that, I mean we intentionally moved back to Brooklyn so that we could be close to them, but we spend a lot of time with them. For relaxation, I read a lot, mostly mysteries, and that, I am still a jazz fanatic and I have this huge record collection from my 25 years, 25 years at Antioch I was a disc jockey on the college's radio station, which was the NPR station for the Dayton area. So, I built up a huge library of music. And one of the few advantages of the pandemic is it forced me to stay home and I listen to a lot of music, and probably watch more television than I should. And I still watch sports and I'm still involved in my beloved Knicks who no longer are in the playoffs. But I was a Knick fan in 1946 when they were organized. My father took my brother and I down to Madison Square Garden. I've been a fan ever since.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1256.0,1334.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1334.0,1335.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: But, but I don't do very much. I worked for, I don't do much political work anymore. I did do some work for, I can't remember his first name -- Zellnor Myrie -- who is a State Assemblyman. Who I really admire immensely and he's our local State Assemblyman. And I have done some work for him, but I don't do very much in the way of political work anymore. And I'm physically unable to go to marches which I feel bad about. But during the Black Lives Matter movement, marches went up and down in front of our house, on Flatbush Avenue and we waved to people, but it's not quite the same thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1335.0,1387.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right, right. And then tell me a little bit about -- how do you feel like your experience at Queens College really, sort of impacted your life or might have changed you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1387.0,1402.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: I think Queens College allowed me to really grow as a professional, and as an educator, and as an academic. And I really got involved in a sense of how the college works. I, one of the things that I did when I was at Queens was I taught a couple of graduate courses at Hunter and I can't remember where else. But one of my assignments was to find the college. And I gave a list of questions to the students and said, find out in the college who makes those decisions and how they're made. And learning how a college really functioned, which was really important to me. And I got to -- the college was run in many ways by the secretaries.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1402.0,1457.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: And I got to love the secretaries in the counseling service. They were just terrific human beings, who in another age probably would've been college professors, but when they were growing up, that was not something women got to do. But they were just terrific. And one I particularly, I remember, who I know has been interviewed in this project, is Helen Hendricks, who was a great mentor to me. She was head of the office in the student activities office. And when I was an intern, my first year, my office was in the student activities office. And Helen was really, my mentor. And then in the counseling office, Rose Krumholz was the head of the secretarial group, but she was far more than a secretary. She had the ability to spot when a student came in and talked to that student for a few minutes, who the best counselor would be for that student.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1457.0,1516.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: It was some brilliant view that I never know how she ever got that, but she was terrific. And folks like that, along with faculty and colleagues at the counseling service, really allowed me to grow and get a good view of higher education. And it suited me well when I became a Dean of Students. Having been a counselor and the director of a counseling service taught me so much about the way an institution functions. And it helped me a great deal when I was in the dean's job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1516.0,1553.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK. And what were the differences between the two colleges? How did you feel differently working?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1553.0,1558.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Queens is a big public school and there are, everybody's a commuter student. There were no dormitories in those days at Queens. I think there now might be a small one, but there were no dormitories at all. Antioch is a residential, private, liberal arts college, which was tiny. I mean, I don't think there were any more than a thousand students when I was there and that Queens was gigantic comparatively. But as I say, I had known Antioch because I went there as a student, as an undergraduate, for five years. And Nancy went there as an undergraduate for three, three of those years, so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1558.0,1597.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK. And what's your sense of Queens College now? And what do you hope for Queens College in the future?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1597.0,1603.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: Well I don't really, I don't have a good sense of it now, 'cause I haven't been there very often, so I don't, have a great sense of it. And what I hope for is -- I really want the City University first to be funded, which it isn't funded well enough. There's no doubt about that. And that I want it to continue to teach a diverse part of the New York City population so that it represents what New York City looks like. And as New York becomes more and more -- what's the right -- as the population of immigrants grows and that the kids of the immigrants are starting to go through school, I think it's very important that Queens educate a multicultural group of students. And that the advantage of the college is the students could get to know each other and hopefully that'll have a positive impact in New York City.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1603.0,1667.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK. So Steve, is there anything else you want to make sure to talk about -- about your experiences at Queens College or how they impacted your life or society that you want to make sure we get in the interview?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1667.0,1682.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: I can't think of -- I'm sure 10 minutes from now, I'll think of three or four things. But that, I've thought about it a little bit and that, I think, you know, most of what I've said. I did learn as a counselor to do a wide variety of counseling. Some of it would be called psychotherapy. Some of it would be called vocational counseling and academic counseling and for a lot of students, it was just being helpful. And that it was, I think, what I liked best was being able to be helpful to people. And it seemed to me that that was appropriate. I remember, I once asked my mother how she felt about me being a psychologist. She said, well, I wanted you to be a psychiatrist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1682.0,1738.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Steve Schwerner: She wanted to be a doctor, which she couldn't do because she was poor, Jewish and female. And if you were all three of those, you didn't get into medical school, even though she had a straight A average at Hunter College. She said, I wanted you to be a psychiatrist, but being a psychologist is good enough. And I thought that was nice. And that's -- so I became a psychologist. I didn't -- I can't say as I am a psychologist now, but I certainly was when I was at Queens. And that helped me grow a great deal. And I hope I made a contribution to the institution.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1738.0,1774.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718/transcript/37296/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: OK, great. Well, this was great. Thank you so much. I'm just going to stop the recording.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/73944/file/159718#t=1774.0,1785.824"}]}]}]}