{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/sn00z71j1b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Alan Townsend Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e\u003cspan\u003eSummay of Full Interview\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cspan\u003eIn this oral history interview Alan Townsend (1936-2020) discusses growing up in a middle class African American family in Durham, North Carolina; attending North Carolina Central (a historically black liberal arts university) where his father taught; and moving to New York City and working as a social worker for the Callagy Hall shelter for girls.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cspan\u003e The bulk of the interview is spent on his time with the SEEK program at Queens College from 1969-2006, where he worked as a counselor, taught Social Sciences classes, worked with the Scholastic Standing Committee, and served as Director of Counseling. Townsend discusses the activism of Black and Puerto Rican SEEK students and faculty in 1969; navigating and challenging continual budgetary threats to the program; the familial comradery developed amongst SEEK staff; and their work developing innovative curricula and services, such as the daycare center and language classes in Yoruba. He also discusses changes in the structure and demographics of the SEEK program over time. \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College SEEK History Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["bulk: 1960s - 1980s (temporal)","Durham, North Carolina; Manhattan, NY; Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2019-09-17 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Alan Townsend (Interviewee)","Obden Mondesir (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp class=\"MsoNormal\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/45921"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003e\u003cspan style=\"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; color: black;\"\u003eSummay of Full Interview\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp style=\"font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; widows: 2; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cspan style=\"font-size: 13.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; color: black;\"\u003eIn this oral history interview Alan Townsend (1936-2020) discusses growing up in a middle class African American family in Durham, North Carolina; attending North Carolina Central (a historically black liberal arts university) where his father taught; and moving to New York City and working as a social worker for the Callagy Hall shelter for girls.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp style=\"font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; widows: 2; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp style=\"font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; widows: 2; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color: initial; word-spacing: 0px;\"\u003e\u003cspan style=\"font-size: 13.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-hansi-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-latin; color: black;\"\u003e The bulk of the interview is spent on his time with the SEEK program at Queens College from 1969-2006, where he worked as a counselor, taught Social Sciences classes, worked with the Scholastic Standing Committee, and served as Director of Counseling. Townsend discusses the activism of Black and Puerto Rican SEEK students and faculty in 1969; navigating and challenging continual budgetary threats to the program; the familial comradery developed amongst SEEK staff; and their work developing innovative curricula and services, such as the daycare center and language classes in Yoruba. He also discusses changes in the structure and demographics of the SEEK program over time.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp class=\"MsoNormal\"\u003e\u003cspan style=\"font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 107%;\"\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/093/142/small/Portraitaviary.jpg?1592990980","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Townsend_Alan_by_Mondesir_Obden_09172019_FULL.wav"]},"duration":5208.34113,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/093/142/small/Portraitaviary.jpg?1592990980","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/093/142/original/Townsend_Alan_by_Mondesir_Obden_09172019_FULL.wav?1592990594","type":"Audio","format":"audio/wav","duration":5208.34113,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Interview Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e  ...attacks on the program. I mean at-- you know, as I develop a pedagogy and also the politically astute, you know, we can you know, we spent a great deal of time in meetings to organize protests, you know. You know, so it was always under duress.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=0.33,30.709"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, cool. So I'm going to-- Today's date is September...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=30.93,34.556"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e 15th, no. 13th was Friday. 14th...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=40.795,42.02"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obsen Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e September 17th.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=42.78,45.65"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e All right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=46.041,46.779"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Today's date is September 17th, 2019. My name is Obden Mondesir. I am with Alan Townsend. We are at Queens College collecting this oral history for the Special Collection and Archives at Queens College for the SEEK Oral History Collection. So, Alan Townsend, could you tell me the year you were born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=46.78,66.723"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e On April 29, 1936.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=67.31,70.59"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And where were you born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=74.67,75.87"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Durham, North Carolina. I was--I have--I had five siblings. I was-- My father taught at what is now North Carolina Central, but at that time it was North Carolina College for Colored People. I went to We didn't have a merry school and Hillside High School, and then to North Carolina Central. I left Durham after graduation 1959. Came to New York. I got a job with the department actually at the time was welfare. I got to be a social service at a Children's Center for Young Girls, Callagy Hall. I worked there, interrupted by being drafted in the army, and obviously I worked in-- I was a medic. Went to Fort Knox and from Fort Knox to South Korea and then from South Korea back and was discharged and went back to the job I had at Callagy Hall, and I must've worked there a matter of 10 years. And then through a friend who was on the Personnel and Budget Committee out here-- Janet Washington was her name, I don't know if it's important-- recommended me for an interview. And I came out and had an interview and. I got the job as a counselor and I worked here until my retirement, which was in 2006.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=75.96,227.46"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm hmm. And considering that your father was teaching a North Carolina Central, what were your early memories of the importance of education growing up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=227.65,241.712"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, there was, yeah. I came from a family-- my family as an African-American family, which you, for lack of a better description, was a middle-class family. So, I mean, they-- education was a given, you know. Yeah. I mean, so my father one time, taught at Howard University, and I have a brother named Howard. So I'm saying they were older siblings, I was the next to the youngest sibling. And the whole notion about, you know, hey, you know, you have to get an A and a good education. And so everybody in the family were college graduates. I have a -- had a sister who died, had a PHD in biology. And everybody else at least got a bachelor's degree, so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=243.17,276.147"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And just what was it like going to NC Central?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=304.311,313.7"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh well, you know, it was a black college. That was fun, you know. And the other thing is that I grew up a block away. You know, so I had been on that campus all of my, you know, all my life, practically, you know, running on the track. And, by the time I got to North Carolina Central, you know, it had changed quite a bit from what my daddy worked there. I mean, you know, they had added a law school and a lot of other institutions that made it become a university by the time I left.  And it was-- my college days were fun. I used to come to New York every summer. You know, which made me know that when I left,  when I was going to leave North Carolina, I was gonna come to New York. I mean, that was-- that was very, very clear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=314.83,395.149"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Why? What was--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=395.66,398.64"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Because I learned to like New York. My brother-- my older brother was here anyway. He's worked with IBM. And you know, and he facilitated I would comment. He had friends who would go to the University of Puerto Rico in the Summer and I would have the apartment. So, I mean, actually, not only in the summer, but actually come almost every school break. You know, Christmas, etc. So I-- it was very clear to me that I liked New York. And I think that helped me because when I worked at Callagy Hall, I worked with part-- I worked with a client population that later on would be the demographics of the SEEK program. So a lot I understood, even though I wasn't a New Yorker, I understood what the youth of New York was, you know, was like. So, yeah. So I was always going to come to New York, just grown up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=399.39,488.11"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Tell me about Callagy Hall. First, how do you spell it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=491.8,495.377"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e C A L L A G Y.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=496.079,497.079"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. And what kind of institution was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=506.63,508.552"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e It was for young dependent on intellect is what they call it now. When the courts would take a young girl away from the family for whatever reasons, they would bring them there. So, you know, I guess the age range was from about 8 to16, 17. Yeah. And, at that point time, you know, politicians were not as upset about spending money on, you know, poor people, basically, whatever. So it was well funded. And I started out as a children's council; teaching, swimming and etc. Moved to a supervisory position, and then to the assistant director of the department. And so I had three different positions while there. And tell you the truth, it was what I really liked because it freed me up. I had working hours from 1 to 9. I finally ended up in a situation where basically I just planned activities for the girls, you know, we gonna go to Jones Beach today. We go on to Fillmore East  over the weekend or whatever, whatever. And, you know, it was fun. Didn't pay much, but it was fun. And I-- when this Janet Washington had say a common interview idea. II was real reluctant to leave Callagy Hall. You know, I had done-- at the end of the time, I was at Callagy Hall. I did some work for the union. I wrote part of the contract that went out, so--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=508.7,664.218"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e For which union?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=665.01,666.01"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e It was SSE.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=666.59,667.59"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What is SSE?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=669.34,670.34"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Wait, wait. No, it was.[Unclear/mumbling], I was  I'm 40 years, 50 years old. What was that? I will remember it. But yeah, we. Yeah, I. Yeah, I was part of the union, and it was actually-- there was a woman I worked with from from the welfare of a Beaula Sanders and she wrote-- they wrote some stuff. One of the first time that a client had input into the contract. John Lindsay was mayor at the time. So, yeah. And I-- probably that's why I liked coming to Queens, cause I left that kinda union experience and entered you know, this sort of radical education experience where you had to, you know... I had gotten used to confronting. You know, gotten used to confronting the establishment and whatever. So I'd like to segue way in, whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=672.01,753.95"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. So for some clarification, Callagy Hall, where was that located?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=754.34,759.929"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e East 12th Street, between First and Second Avenue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=760.65,764.736"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e In Manhattan?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=764.737,765.388"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e In Manhattan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=765.477,766.477"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So where would most of these girls be coming from?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=766.56,768.603"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Anywhere in the city, Brooklyn, anywhere. Because the courts, once they will go to the courts, depending on them looking like that. And it was determined that it was there. That's where they would go. They had a co-one for boys called the Children's center home on Fifth Avenue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=768.93,790.62"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And what were your early memories of working with these with these girls in Callagy Hall? You mentioned going to Jones Beach and like taking them on--.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=797.78,809.44"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Like I said, I got to understand what New York young people were like in terms of their problems, etc., etc. I mean, I knew how what was happening? Oftentimes in agencies like that, they had a lot-- not a lot, but a whole lot of gay girls and whatever. And then and I got to know how kind of reactions they would have with men. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I got to know a lot about the New York youth, as you know, in that ten years. So transitioning to Queens College, who, given what was supposed to be in our target pocket population, gave me a lot of insights. And you know, when especially in my counseling role.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=810.11,876.859"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So Janet Washington suggests that you interview for SEEK. And where were you living at the time while working at Callagy?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=878.06,889.62"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I was living on Christopher Street in the village.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=890.09,892.789"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And was this the same place that your brother would allow-- where you--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=893.15,897.027"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e No that was-- well I was living there because I was permanently in New York then. My brother used to make these arrangements when I was in college and coming to work. But when I got I got an apartment when I got out of the army, and I got an apartment on Christopher Street, right, and Hudson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=897.379,917.606"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What was that area like at the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=917.607,918.741"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e To tell you the truth. One would think about it being a gay enclave. When I was there not quite. And also, there is not there has not been too much structural change in that neighborhood, because I was down there the other day, in terms of the stores, buildings and whatever. However, the demographics have changed. Just based upon a lot of the gay communities in that area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=919.862,959.529"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So what were the demographics like then and how have they changed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=959.98,963.549"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that's what I mean. I mean, it was just, bohemians I guess you would say. But later on, I think as down on Hudson and whatever they're opening up, and then what the Stonewall's right up. And that was an action that was after I had left the neighborhood, but the demographics changed to gay men mostly. Which I don't have any problems with, but I'm just saying that that was the biggest change that I could recognize.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=963.94,1011.57"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So you're living on Christopher Street. You have been working at Callagy. And could you tell me about your relationship with Janet Washington?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1013.8,1024.76"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Janet Washington actually was a good friend of somebody who I had dated. And she met me and she was impressed with, you know because actually I had done a lot of activism as I said on my job at Callagy Hall. And she came back and she was on the Personnel and Budget Committee. And so, you know, she was saying, 'now you all gotta meet this guy, you need to hire and whatever.' And there was also on that Personnel and Budget Committee, a person who I had gone to high school with, from Durham. Name's Sam Floyd. Anybody ever talk about Sam Floyd?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1026.329,1072.18"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. There have been two people who have discussed Mr. Floyd.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1072.58,1075.526"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Sam Floyd was [pauses]. So she eventually, because we were on a lot of stress and I really do think she eventually had a nervous breakdown, I think, you know. It wasn't here cause she left here, but I think that's what had happened. And I don't know if I should be saying that but... And she had been a very effective counselor. You know, she was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1076.18,1123.619"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So, OK, so there was Janet Washington, Sam Floyd, who was a friend of yours--.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1127.86,1133.35"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e From high school. From-- yeah, from Durham. We grew up together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1133.62,1135.745"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e You grew up together. Well, what? How did he get to New York? And did he get there before you or after you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1135.746,1142.704"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, he came while I was in the army, I think. I'm not sure. And he was a pillar of you know, of, you know, the English Department. They always talk about Corinne Jennings. He, [mumbles] Sam and Ruth Seagle and stuff. He was a very important person in developing the pedagogy of the program. Did anybody-- have they talked about Lord Delaney?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1142.94,1183.759"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. So Mr. Modeste has spent some time talking about Lloyd Delaney and as well as Waldo Jeff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1184.29,1191.079"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e WaldoJeff. Yeah. Right.  And actually, what's ironic about that; Lloyd Delaney's aunts we're good friends of my aunt. Did you ever hear or see a movie called The Delaney Sisters?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1191.52,1211.979"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1212.52,1213.52"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e They made a movie. They were responsible for establishing St. Augustine College in Raleigh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1213.88,1227.34"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. I guess so, like tell me what did you remember about Sam Floyd in high school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1236.62,1244.279"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. One thing I do remember, we were in college. I had some tales, you know. Don't know why I did it, but I have tales. And anyway, he was in a frat. Alphas, I think. And of course, he borrowed them to do, you know, some you know, when they go online, they have the PBR. And he never returned them. However, when we-- I came back to when I came here and ran into him, he had an apartment on Horatio's Street, not too far from  Christopher Street. Which I hadn't, I was married, but I hadn't gotten married yet. And me and my future wife used to go there to have a little privacy, etc. And I never gave him back the keys to the apartment, you know. But yeah, I mean, he was you know, he was an admirable person.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1246.49,1318.258"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e  OK. So I guess you're interviewing for the SEEK program, and what were your initial impressions of SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1322.62,1333.48"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, I thought it--I thought they were it was a hip job. You know, we had a lot of young people, you know, very passionate about you know their profession and in their academic skills and whatever. Yeah, I thought it was. I just was comfortable at my job with Callagy. And so I wasn't that anxious to come. I mean, you know, when it was all said and done, the salary was so much better than the salary that I was getting, and I needed to take the job. And what I think made this job especially gratifying, were that we were all young, we were getting paid to do stuff that we wanted to do anyway. And so it was not hard to put in more effort than normal 9  to 5 job would require. When-- I'll give an example, we-- one of the things that made us successful at the counseling unit is that if we found out that we needed, say, an institution, whatever ok, we found out that we needed a scholastic standing committee. Queens College didn't have one. So we formulated the Scholastic Standing Committee. Now, oftentimes that it required us calculating transcripts by hand. We used to have to, you know, go meet at night. But it was all fun, you know? I mean, we liked each other. It was all fun. And we were getting paid for it. So it made it rewarding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1335.77,1474.371"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess before we go further into SEEK--what do you remember of Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1479.9,1487.949"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Before I came. Not much. I mean, I knew that a person sitting in a Rosedale and they had different branches and there was a Queens College. But not much. I mean now, and I have this documented too. What I do know is that--OK, one of the unique things at that time, to be talking about it now, it was that CUNY was tuition-free. It only-- they started charging tuition, maybe after I was here about two or three years. And what I understood, the big issue, the political issue was African-Americans and Puerto Ricans and Hispanics not benefiting from a free university? And the big deal was because you get selected by what kind of, you know what kind of grade you have in high school, etc. And what made that a big problem was most of the black and Puerto Rican kids had terrible education in the schools that were terrible. So there was no way they were going to qualify for CUNY, especially Queens College, Brooklyn, Hunter. So, I mean, that's basically what I knew about Queens College. And I think it was said then that it had a large Jewish population, I don't remember. But, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1490.76,1604.477"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And how would you get there from Christopher Street?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1608.61,1611.13"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I didn't-- I wasn't-- When I came to Queens College, I wasn't living in the village.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1612.21,1618.48"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, Ok.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1618.481,1619.006"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I was living on 136th Avenue and Springfield Gardens. I had gotten married. And my wife's current mother had a house. And I moved out here and actually had my son. So I got from there and I would just take the Vanwick and drive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1619.398,1647.95"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. And I guess what was-- briefly like what was living in Springfield Gardens like. Especially like Springfield Gardens compared to like what is Flushing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1648.05,1661.049"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well,  Springfield Gardens was a haven for upwardly mobile black people, pretty much, you know, who, you know, had been wanting to own a home, etc. I mean, that's, you know. Well, you know, you gotta mow the grass and you know.  And that was-- And Flushing was a-- actually, I can't even remember. See, because the transition from Asian that has happened to Flushing hadn't happened then. But I can't remember what my general impressions were of Flushing at the time. You know, as you know, the thing that I said about Queens College, it was more like a college cause it had a campus as opposed to Hunter that sits in the city and you get three or four buildings or whatever. But Queens College has a campus, and I understand now they have a dormitory. But other than that I can't-- Flushing, I can't remember, you know. But what I felt about coming this is get in my car and drive over here, come through the gate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1662.78,1754.2"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Cool. And so your, I guess, describe some of the work that you were doing at SEEK when you start and what year did you start working as officially? 1969.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1756.08,1768.799"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1769.91,1770.393"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So I guess; 1969 is a very interesting time just because like that's a lot of--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1770.394,1774.787"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1776.601,1777.601"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Rebellion, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1779.03,1780.08"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Activism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1780.2,1780.949"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And activism. So you talk about some of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1780.95,1783.259"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I mean, it fit right into our existence, you know? My world view, most of my colleagues' world view, you know. So the seats of power as the problem. And so Third World Liberation as the answer and whatever. So, you know, I mean, like I said, I mean, and then when you connect it with, you know, the Vietnam War and protests over that and etc., it was a very terrible time, I would say. And at some ways, you know, I found that stimulating and stuff, but it also was stressful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1783.83,1837.92"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you give an example of how it was stressful?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1842.38,1844.827"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I can just only say oftentimes just having to go through, we got to go through up to Albany and gotta do this to go down the Board of Higher Education. Whatever. I constantly had stomach issues all of the time and whatever. And again, as Mr. Modeste said, I mean, we were always fighting to keep our jobs, fighting to keep the program on flow, etc. I mean, I think we even talked about it. I never thought that when I had-- I didn't think that I would retire here. I actually thought it was something-- in fact, one of the things me and Modeste talked about was they said, well, what's your retirement? And when they offered a retirement package, I never even went up to sign up. It was TIAA CREF and then there was the TRS is whatever it is. They just put me in one. And one of the things, the best thing that ever happened to me, it was that day they put me in a good retirement package. And, you know, I've been thankful for that since then. But we-- the big thing was that we never thought that we were going to, you know, be here more than the next budget, etc.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1845.2,1950.998"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And so like in 1969, there is like the SEEK rebellion where they are really angry that a lot of the administration is white.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1955.21,1968.049"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Mean on campus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1968.72,1969.72"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e On campus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1969.85,1970.85"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. It was always that. I mean, the SEEK program was the only program on campus that had black faculty. I mean, that might have been one or two somewhere, you know, spread out, you know. Lloyd Delaney was actually here, and he was not-- he became the SEEK director, but he was not-- but the SEEK program, was you know... And actually, I guess that when I think about it, it was kind of a shock because one there are these, you know, African-Americans and Puerto Ricans are running around making demands and using, you know, demonstrations and the tactics and stuff in it. Actually, I'm sure. And I don't know if Modeste talked about this, what changed the activism in the program eventually was; they changed the student population. You know, when there were a lot of African-American students, it was easy to organize with faculty. You know, the kindred spirits and stuff. You know, eventually, begin to get more Asian students, more East Asian-- so and less African-American and Puerto Rican students. So that hindered the kind of a resistance or a kind of organization that went on. But yet it went on for about eight, nine years before they-- it changed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=1971.05,2087.429"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So by the time-- the 1980s?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2088.51,2090.06"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e They had done a lot. Yeah, yeah. You could-- 1980's-- begin to get students who you couldn't convince. Hey, you got to go to Auburndale Mines. They had to go home and help on the fruit stand or something like that. They--we didn't have to have that kind of audience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2093.179,2116.199"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, one of the things that Mr. Modeste mentioned is not only did the demographics change but early on in the SEEK program, you had a lot of older students coming in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2118.25,2128.409"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. Yes, they were older students. And they were in some ways more competent. I mean,  actually we had students who had been to jail and come out and came out and came to the program and whatever. And so they were--  they had a lot more insight into what: one we were trying to do, and two, what was going on. So, ya know. [Mumbling]. I can't think of his name. There was a student who came from jail and came out, finished the SEEK program, went and got a doctorate in teaching. I think he taught at Brooklyn College. But I mean, there were stories like that, you know then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2128.47,2191.729"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, cool. So, yeah, you have a lot of older students coming and students-- more black and Puerto Rican students--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2203.08,2211.11"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Black and Puerto Rican students, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2213.087,2214.263"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And, just trying to go back towards like this rebellion. There is like-- it does lead to a change in leadership. So we go from Mulholland...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2214.264,2223.69"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, but [Mumbling] see it didn't really make much difference. I will say the change, ok different presidents. That there was a president that I know of-- Modeste knows-- named Murphy, who has been through the Peace Corps in East Africa. Liberal as he could be, you know, I mean, he had the whole whatever. And the program probably got a breather for when he was the president, with the tenure. I mean, it did mean that we didn't have threats coming from Albany or some other place. But he was much more understanding than Mulholland and some of the people who coined so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2225.839,2291.13"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And could you give Murphy's full name?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2292.96,2294.399"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Certainly, Joe Murphy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2294.4,2295.219"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Joe Murphy, and do you remember what year that he was...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2296.14,2297.694"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Not really. I probably could find out for you, but I can't remember. I can just remember them following, because one of the things he was the president here and came back and was the chancellor. So, you know, but I don't have the dates on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2300.98,2324.26"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, after the rebellion, you do have Mulholland and eventually, Lloyd Delaney becomes the director of SEEK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2327.34,2339.815"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Never became the director of SEEK. That's who they want it to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2340.57,2344.719"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2345.06,2346.06"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e He actually became director of counseling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2347.77,2350.609"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2351.04,2352.04"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e SEEK counseling for a little period because he died. What, he must have died my first year. See, he was the director of counseling. He didn't want to be the director of SEEK. They-- I can't his name now-- the Plan B hired somebody for the director of SEEK. And he didn't last. I mean, the program really didn't like him much. --What is that guy's name? Can't remember his name now.-- But Delaney said, 'I don't want to be the director of the program at like to be the director of counseling'. And one of the things that he was a psychologist, he had a Park Avenue clientèle and so counselor was a more natural fit. Yeah. But he died [Mumbling] after the first semester that I was here, Lloyd died.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2352.09,2420.452"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess what were your interactions with him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2425.35,2431.32"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I thought a lot Lloyd, you know. He was a forward thinker. He introduced some of the notions that made the program successful, like having students be part of the decision about what curriculum would be, have them be on personnel and budget committees and whatever that was, you know, having that kind of student participation. And like I said, it worked well when there was an older SEEK population. And they were in a lot of ways insulated you know, from retaliation. You know, they weren't gonna lose their jobs. They couldn't pull them out of school, you know. I mean, so... But Lloyd introduced that notion of having students having a bigger say in what their education is going to be like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2434.55,2504.929"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And could you-- So this speaks a lot more towards like some of the radical pedagogy that you guys had at SEEK. Could you discuss how you guys were able to develop that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2506.65,2521.949"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yeah, it's interesting because of-- I'm surprised that we were able to develop because we had a lot of different parts, you know. It is so ahead of the social science faculty that, it was very radical. Like I said, we have different people with different kinds of ideas, but basically, the teaching faculty said the teaching should be holistic, you shouldn't think about remediation. You know,  you should teach English by having students writing papers, based upon what they are reading in a social science class, let that be the topic. And the same thing about anything else, reading, and the whole idea from teaching pedagogy was, the whole, you know, and then they said that it actually counselors should be in the classroom so that you had a holistic approach to teaching. And we also said that we need to develop a curriculum that addresses what our students are. One time we were accused of having a college of our own. I mean, we would have-- well, let's have a foreign language, maybe it's not gonna be Spanish/German, maybe teach Yoruba Or if a SEEK student comes in and he wants to be a music major, but he's has to audition on piano, he might not know how to play a piano; therefore, how are you gonna keep him-- how are you going to let him be a music major? Let's develop a music course. I mean we-- that was our point. If it's not here, we will create it, you know, to be here. I mean, so what? Went into counseling? What? What? You know, a lot of the times there are young women who come, but they have daycare problems, so we created the daycare. You know, none of these things existed. So our point of view was whatever the students need, we have both the talent and the motivation to, you know, to create it. And, you know, and the biggest problem was installing it. That was one problem. The other problem was. We wanted our courses to get, you know, like they say 'Well ok, you can have this-- there's this writing course or whatever, but it will be for no credit.' Well, I mean, they were creating a situation where students would be here, you know, three or four years and made hardly any progress because of it. But we fought to get credits for our courses, you know, those kinds of things. And they were hard-fought because there was this, you know, elitist notion about how you're gonna get is this cause you had three credits and it's you know, it includes some form of remediation, et cetera. But we found ways, said 'Well ok, usually it course meets three times a week for credit. This course will meet four times with credit. But it was-- Well it's a course now I guess if they still teach it, Queens College Counseling Student Life Workshop, to get student life workshop I'm sure Modeste is still teaching one. To get a-- rather than--here's what we said. We said the counselors should have a one to one relationship with our students. However, we said a one to one relationship individually. But institutional relationship-like services, in another context, you know pre-law, pre-med, you know, you might have a counselor, but the person who might be the same person who is, you know, offering the pre-law, pre-med course, We had to create a drug program, RAD, because that was when the scourge of the heroin thing went high. So your counselor might be your one to one counselor, but you may also, if you had a drug issue, you might also see them in this radical action program; that's what it was called RAD. Yeah, so I mean, that was the basic philosophy that we knew what our students needed and we needed to find creative ways around academia in terms of what they would accept in order to provide what they needed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2523.84,2860.499"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And-- with the counseling program and like the way it was developed, it seems like considering that you have like one to one relationships that you worked very closely with students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2863.14,2878.145"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2878.75,2879.212"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And were there any particular experiences like-- that come to mind very quickly when you think of students?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2879.213,2886.86"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, I'll give you one. There was a boy from Colombia -- I think it was the school, not the school, the Hill country was canceled all, you know, through four years. In his third year he-- what was it, was it finance? I think.-- He was going to change to Baruch. And, you know, because they had --I guess it was Baruch. I think it was Baruch.-- They had a-- you know, this is a liberal arts school, I think was Baruch. Yeah, they are more targeted in their major. And I said, don't do that. I said, come back to Queens. You can get all you need here and I'll get you an internship. I got him an internship. I don't know what was it, one of those, what was it...  I'll think of it at one point or another. but. And so they came [mumbling] maybe with one that went down. Anyway, they-- people came and asked me in the park. They were asking these interns for-- they had teachers that , don't want to go in who's wh or o whatever. He said, no, no. Alan Townsend out in Queens College. So he fills out the form. They call me up and whatever, so I get inducted into whos-who. Now truth of that is that I had done hardly any-- no more with him than I had any other student, it just so happened that it fell that way. But we had those kinds of relationships, very close relationships. And still do have relationships with some of the students, you know, who were here then, not the ones in the latter time, but those who are here now-- not now. Were here then-- we have relationships with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=2887.34,3043.4"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And so I guess we're in the 1970s cause we're talking about the change with Mr. Delaney and you said not much. There wasn't much of a difference except for like some of the approaches that you took with counseling. And then I guess if we're going-- And then I guess we're gonna talk about the scholarship that you've done on SEEK where you came out with a dissertation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3045.41,3079.241"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e And [unclear].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3079.83,3080.83"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3081.15,3082.15"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, it was for my master's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3083.79,3085.079"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And this is 1977?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3085.43,3088.239"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yup, I think so. Yeah, that's what it says, September 1977.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3088.79,3092.514"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e [Talking over one another] No, go ahead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3094.332,3095.55"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, some of the stuff I had-- again-- OK, let me just say: 'Introduction, page 1 Original Theories on Educational Opportunities Program for the City University, Development of City University Education Opportunity Program. Alternatives to the Original Theory.' That's the SEEK, Queens SEEK. 'Evolution of the formal machinery, issues of evaluation.' So, like I said I haven't gone over this stuff in a while, so I kinda looked at it last night, but [mumbling] Modeste, did you see his thesis?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3104.82,3172.409"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I haven't seen his thesis. He's discussed it so I know that there are about-- there are at least four because there is a Miss Cecily Roderic has also written about SEEK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3172.68,3188.78"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. She came a little later. You know why she would-- five or six years after the start","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3189.36,3197.105"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So I guess-- you're a counselor from 1969 until what-- what point do you change positions while at SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3202.7,3211.204"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't know. I can't remember. We-- very early on [mumbling] got to be called the Director of Counseling. We probably had about. 20-- 21 counselors then. And I-- like I said, I held that position. And I left that position to start Scholastic Standing Committee. And I did that for a while. And if I thought about it, I could probably, you know, I mean, I could probably give you the specific dates, but just because like I said over 50 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3211.55,3260.123"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So I guess tell me about what is the Scholastic Standing Committee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3273.3,3277.68"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, we would monitor students' progress. Look at their transcripts. Part of it connected with the counseling staff because they would figure out-- look at the grades that enter' and those that needed to be monitored they would notify us. We would get the transcripts. We developed a policy. You know [mumbling] what should your grade point average be. And some of that was connected with financial aid, too. That was one of the other things, you know. I mean, if you got-- if you didn't make-- if you failed the whole semester, your financial aid might be endangered. So since it was tied like that, we would go over the transcripts. To bring-- Like I said call students in. One on one interviews, give them --you know, Give them their-- what the options are going to be in terms of next semester, etc. I mean, we would get their grades at the end of the second semester and all summer we would interview students in terms of where they were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3281.02,3379.889"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And this type of work went on for quite some time; because you mentioned that you did have three positions in SEEK. So you were a counselor then working for the Scholastic Standing Committee, and then--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3387.42,3404.524"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I actually had a fourth one. I directed the summer program for a few years. So I-- And I actually, like I said, I taught--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3405.1,3420.82"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. What classes did you--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3422.67,3424.63"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Social Science --I forget-- 101, the introductory social science.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3424.803,3429.434"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And I guess what-- do you remember years you were doing that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3429.95,3433.732"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I can't. Some of these questions, I guess if I had thought about it ahead of time, I could have gotten an answer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3437.409,3440.754"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, what we can do is like once we have the transcript; I can send it back to you. You can put in the dates. But I guess, what was it like teaching social sciences?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3442.34,3453.02"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, it was fine. I got-- my degree was in Urban Studies and it fit a niche. One of the problems that we had with social science curriculum was, we had different-- so many different teachers with different areas of expertise. You know, somebody's sociology, somebody is economics, somebody's in political science, and whenever. So in order to nail down, you know, what Social Science 101 is going to be, we eventually had to do that. You know, it was a task. I'm teaching 101, but I'm teaching basically Urban Studies Principals, somebody else is teaching Economics. You know, somebody else is teaching-- yeah. So that was kinda tricky.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3453.13,3515.639"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And then I guess one of the things I'm thinking about is that while all this happening at SEEK, I mean, you know, the rest of the world in New York is still existing. So the 70s is like it was also--You started in '69 and like during the Seventies, there's a lot of like fiscal crises, especially in New York. How do you feel like that affected?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3523.24,3550.069"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think it caused a lot of stress for the Education and Opportunity Programs, definitely, yeah. I mean, when was it, who was the mayor. He almost shut us down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3551.02,3566.69"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So not Lindsey, but--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3570.99,3572.026"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e No, he was--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3573.24,3574.469"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e He was in the Sixties for sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3575.639,3576.668"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e It wasn't Lindsey, it was...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3578.879,3580.577"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Not Dinkins.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3588.97,3589.97"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e No. A little further back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3590.04,3593.05"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Koch? There is Abraham Bean and Ed Koch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3617.055,3620.892"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Bean, yes, Bean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3622.719,3623.719"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e   So Bean tried to...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3627.6,3629.48"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, defund us. Well, he was under pressure from, you know, trying to get funding from the Federal Government and whatever. I think they even set up a financial committee to run the city under him, he had gotten so... But I can remember being-- we-- there was a period that we didn't get paid under Beame.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3629.94,3659.54"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e For how long?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3663.54,3664.54"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, enough time. I mean, that's probably what really thought. Well, we really thought what we had thought was going to happen was happening at the time. I mean, because, like I said, it was always a need to give educational opportunity programs the notion that it is expendable. It was always a budgetary notion about these you know, these programs are expendable. One of the things you run up against, they say, \"Well, what are your graduation rates,\" you know, and they would come up with expectations of graduation that would be for a normal student and not a student, you know, that fit the profile of a SEEK student, you know, with these problems and you might-- you know, I went two years but something happening in my family, blah blah blah that I have to drop out of school and get a job. So I do this two years and then reapply, whatever. So you didn't get graduation rates that were like, well I came in at 1959 left in 1963. You know there are a lot of times that I mean there were students who took them 10 and 12 years to finish, those who would stop out and come back and whatever. So it was all of those pressures, you know. And every time that there was a budget problem, it was always an idea that well you can cut out the SEEK program or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3666.11,3782.33"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And this almost happens under...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3785.74,3787.633"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Say what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3788.47,3789.016"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e This almost happens under mayor Bean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3789.017,3791.06"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e It happened under everybody. The big thing happened under Bean. We really did lose funding. People lost jobs. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3791.93,3806.754"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you remember when it goes back to being normal?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3807.75,3809.939"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't. I don't. I mean, we might have been-- I just-- we might have been-- the one thing I did remember what I was supposed to go to Kenya with the SEEK program, with students and I was set to go shots and everything. And that was when they said, \"Man y'all ain't going to Kenya.\" You know, I mean, not only were we not going to Kenya, you know, you won't be working as well. So that was in the summer. But, you know, we get paid, you know, all year round and stuff. So I just don't remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3811.2,3859.609"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And then actually I'm going to pause really quick just because I have to... [pause/time skip] I came back from the bathroom and I'm reading: \"In the spring of 1975, the first full impact of the New York budget crisis came to fruition. All city services were threatened. There was a general feeling of certain dismantling of the SEEK program. It had been targeted by the mayor and members of the city council to be cut. Its negative image about its effectiveness and its ethnic makeup made the program unpopular. However, the prolonged national economic recession had affected other New York minority groups, as well as Blacks and Puerto Ricans, the Italian and Irish New York City High School graduates needed economic assistance to be successful at the university. The fact that they did not reside or go to school in designated poverty areas made them ineligible for the SEEK program; that they might not have needed the pedagogical innovations was another question for debate.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3865.4,3962.26"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e That's the year Beame--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3963.96,3964.96"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Almost shut down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3967.81,3968.81"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3970.18,3971.18"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. And I mean, there's a lot that it says; there were like; I think some of the things that we're dancing around, is like the popularity of the SEEK program. And, I guess, it seems like, within SEEK, everyone understood that it was really important. But those who are outside of SEEK, especially Queens College and CUNY, they did not think the same thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3972.25,3998.156"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=3998.24,3999.24"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e  And I guess. Do you have any experience of like working at Queens College, that speaks towards that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4000.1,4008.15"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Speaks toward...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4011.49,4012.627"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Like treating faculty or students that were a part of SEEK a second class.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4013.83,4022.872"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e At Queens College? Yeah, I mean, in fact, I used to have to talk to my students. They'd go and have a class, and then they would just say that they would come back and say, 'Townsend, hey, I'll teach you whatever. It's some complaint, they were racist.' I said, well what did you expect, telling them, 'you got to understand. Yeah. But that's not an excuse, You gotta figure out how you can get an A out of this course even if they are racist, etc.' So, yeah, I mean that happened all the time. You know, I mean there were people on campus who always, you know, had a problem with us being there, basically, although at some times we had a better graduation rate than the college did in general. There were times when that was the case, but it was always a struggle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4024.24,4099.375"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess from 1975, as that seems to be like a watershed moment for the SEEK program. And I guess before we continue going forward and we talked about what your relationship was like with the students, I guess what was-- and we kind of talked about your relationship with other staff, but I guess what was it like working with people like Mr. Waldo Jeff, Mr. Modeste considering that you were all SEEK counselors and kind of like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4107.35,4138.489"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, we were almost a family. I mean, well, we were very tight. And that's how I guess we survived because we had that kind of feeling for each other and for our goals and stuff. So it was great, you know. Modeste was here maybe a year before I came, I think. Something like that. Can't believe he's still here now. Been here a long time. But yeah, it was great. You know, we had-- there were a lot of women who were counselors who were really good, they were great. Did anybody speak about Barbara Emerson?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4138.95,4193.46"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e No, not yet. Could you tell me a lot about her?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4194.82,4198.339"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well,I'll tell you, she was a counselor, she came in and she is-- Jose Williams' ever heard of him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4198.52,4204.82"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4204.86,4205.86"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Daughter. And she came-- she, you know, yeah, she came in and-- we were on the Scholastic Standing Committee together. And she was quite a force. She has a PHD in I mean, she wrote her dissertation about the SEEK program. She eventually got to be the director of the SEEK program for a few years and stuff. And, you know, there was--  Pat McCoy, we--    You know, there were some women, some dynamic women in the program and stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4205.91,4257.082"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. And then you've also had like people with no-- There was an English professor, she's come out for a book recently.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4265.41,4272.399"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Jessica Harris.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4273.39,4274.319"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Jessica Harris.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4274.32,4275.013"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I helped her with that book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4275.014,4277.8"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh did you? I bought it. I'm getting ready-- I'm on my way to reading it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4278.013,4281.459"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4281.67,4282.459"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4282.46,4283.009"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e It's about-- actually had a lot to do with Sam Floyd.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4283.01,4284.48"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm, how so?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4284.481,4285.174"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, they were really tight and yeah. And I actually I gave her it, cause Sam was from Durham. I gave her some stuff, background stuff on our educational experience in Durham and how it turned out during that. All right. I think Jessica is not here anymore, is she?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4286.984,4316.289"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e She, I think... I know she's connected to Queens College, but I think she's either like on hiatus or like--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4317.293,4329.563"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, she was down in New Orleans for a bit. I think she has a house up at the Cape Martha's Vineyard. So she spends time between one place or the other. She had-- like I said, I had given her some information about the book, for her to write the book. And she came back. I think she came back, she told me she was going to come back and teach one semester, but she didn't. I didn't hear from her. And then after that semester, she did call my voice mail and I didn't get it at first. But, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4333.289,4372.859"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e But-- and considering that like you know, the SEEK program was intended for people from low areas or low-income areas, the staff was fairly diverse as well. So like, I guess, what was it like working with black students as well as what was pointed out as like Irish and--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4379.55,4402.888"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e That was after the fact. That's when the population changed, remember I told you that they switched us. But again, we were a diverse group and we had all kinds of pedagogical arguments about stuff. But, you know, we always managed to keep them from being too detrimental, and then yeah...  for the most part, it was fun, a lot of fun people in the program, period. Not just councillor's, you know, teachers, you know, they always... You know, I don't know of a Yemi is still here. Do you know Yemi?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4403.9,4453.241"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e No, what was her--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4457.3,4458.056"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4458.057,4458.65"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What's his-- oh is he--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4458.89,4459.962"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yemi, he's Nigerian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4460.55,4463.909"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, he's been mentioned before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4464.41,4466.47"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4466.56,4467.043"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4467.044,4467.527"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. And{unclear name]to who just die. Daniel Shearim. I mean, it was a diverse group.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4467.528,4477.83"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess if we're moving more towards like what was your experience; because most of this happens between like 1969 and the mid-1980s. What-- I guess what you remember of your work leading to retirement in 2006?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4485.04,4506.939"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember that you know we begin to have incremental cuts, budget, and whatever. And ya know, so the program got smaller. But, again, a... OK, I guess I should add, that was during the period that my wife died of breast cancer, that was doing a period when-- because I stopped doing a lot of things that I was doing with that struggle from her diagnosis of breast cancer to her death. And, that was-- that helped-- that blurs my experience, what am I remembering, some; the fact that I was dealing with her sickness and whatever, so... But, you know, by this time I had stopped doing anything else but, counseling. And to tell you the truth she died, and the person that we reported to then was a Burke Backner. And I had said to him that I was going to retire. And he said, 'no, you shouldn't do that. You should work another year or two.' And I did work another year or two. And then retired. But, again the biggest thing that I can tell you is that the client population had changed so drastically; that it wasn't in any way like it was back then. We had a SEEK population that oftentimes didn't want to be in SEEK, you know. They were in SEEK because of well, they could get a stipend, etc, etc. But as opposed to, you know the original demographics of the students. So, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4510.21,4678.61"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So, yeah, so that changing demographics you feel-- I guess the particular mission of the SEEK program was to bring a population that wouldn't have had the opportunity?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4683.49,4696.3"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4696.66,4697.66"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And do you feel like that changed with the demographic?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4697.68,4700.419"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, a lot of times. A lot of times students we had you know, I mean, I don't want to denigrate them, but they, you know, they had resources that could be hidden, you know, and they didn't, at least often didn't feel like they need it, you know what educationally we were offering and whatever. So, yeah, I think we've got students who in some ways, you know rip the school off in terms of ya know, hiding resources, etc. And I also think that we've got students who. OK, let me give you an example. I think that there-- we got students who would cheat on the S.A.T get somebody to take it, whatever. I mean, obviously that's going on now. But back then, I knew that there were students who, you know had people take the test for, you know, etc.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4700.52,4787.43"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm. And I guess, well, did you require them to take the S.A.T.'s at the time? Did you need a particular score to get into CUNY or into SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4794.5,4797.902"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, you needed-- and in fact, again, that's the summer program had to do with students who had taken that batch of the S.A.T. It was the entrance exam. And had not scored well, and their acceptance was contingent on them coming in the summer and improving those scores to, you know, to be reevaluated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4811.65,4847.15"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And then I guess how do you feel-- you said the demographic changing. Do you really feel like it affected the relationship that staff had with students, especially compared to like how--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4856.04,4876.97"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, it did. There were not those kinds of you know, there were very few relationships like with students as it had been originally. I mean. It was like, yeah, you know there were some students that, you know, you got close to, but it was like anyplace else on campus and stuff. I mean, ya know, that it were not-- the counseling staff over here, we should call it the Queens. I don't even know if there is one now, but you know-- it was like-- and that's what they -- actually that's what even people that SEEK central wanted. They didn't want us to have these relationships. Bring students in, you know, check their grades, whatever they particularly want we had done before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4877.14,4947.6"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess something else I'm thinking about is that maybe some of the changes that occur is that like initially SEEK was basically one of the few programs that brought diversity into CUNY.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4948.75,4962.692"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4963.33,4964.33"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And you also have open admissions that happen afterwards?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4964.38,4968.82"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4968.83,4969.539"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And how do you feel that open admissions changed or challenged what SEEK was doing at the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4969.54,4978.265"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think that a lot of things that open admissions didn't provide resources for those students. And you know, in my view, the hero, so those students were not as successful as the SEEK  program. You know, but you know, other words that thing was, 'Yeah, we're gonna let you into CUNY even if you have these educational deficiencies, but it's gonna be up to you to work out or have the college help out and, you know. But no special program.' So... and you know, and then I think all minority students got painted in CUNY with the same brush after open admissions happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=4978.33,5056.61"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So like, SEEK students kind of just fell into...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=5059.09,5063.38"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, SEEK students kept being able to take advantage of, you know, whatever resources that had been put there by the legislature. But I'm just saying what open admission students are here and to  tell you the truth. I don't remember a big population change at Queens College. You know, from open admission, I didn't see any more African-American students than were here, you know, as I remember, there were not. It didn't change much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=5064.56,5102.25"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, I guess when did you think you saw changes in the populations of QUEENS College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=5108.32,5115.806"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142/transcript/16658/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Alan Townsend:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, well, again, I saw a bigger influx of Asian students. You know, when I first came there were not as many. But when I first came Flushing was not, you know, as Asian as it is now, you now.  And there were more South American students than had been. Most students, when I came up, where Puerto Rican, not even Dominican. But, you know, I that's from South America. [unclear] whatever.  But, yeah, it from what I've been looking first got on campus there was a big white population and SEEK brought in the African-American and Puerto Rican population. But SEEK program students gradually change, but also the overall students on campus. You know, Indian, you know, from Bangladesh or whatever, there were not that many students from what went on for us when we first came on campus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/26334/file/93142#t=5119.37,5203.729"}]}]}]}