{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/rn3028qj3s/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Art Gatti Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eArthur Gatti is an author and poet with a long history of involvement in activism and community organizing.  In the interview, he discusses his life growing up in Queens, NY in an Italian American household and how he gained political consciousness and awareness through his experiences and the influence of his friends.  One friendship he talks about at length is his relationship with Mario “Bob” Savio who later became known for his leadership role in the Free Speech Movement which originated on the Berkeley campus in California.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eGatti further relates his time as a student at Queens College in the early-to-mid 1960s where he was very involved in Left political organizations and campaigns.  One such project was the Queens College Mexico Volunteers where a group of Queens College students went to the towns of Taxco and Iguala in Mexico to assist in the construction of a school as well as support local infrastructural improvements.  While outlining the projects, Gatti and interviewer Mark Levy (who attended Queens College at the same time as Gatti) describe the campus culture and the political atmosphere of the mid 1960s.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAnother project that Gatti participated in was the rebuilding of churches in Black community in Jackson, Mississippi that had been burned down in retaliation for the Freedom Summer campaign in 1964 that worked to register previously unregistered Black voters.  And finally, after talking about his time in Mississippi, Gatti then describes his work as an organizer in the late 19060s as part of the Newark Community Union Project (NCUP).  NCUP was a project associated with the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) which was dedicated to empowering the Black community to work for racial justice and to combat social and economic disparity in Newark, New Jersey.  Gatti was in Newark in 1967 when the Newark Rebellion took place and he recounts his experiences on the ground during the insurrection as well as living in Newark in the aftermath.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/43398"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2020-11-19 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Tags"]},"value":{"en":["Queens College Alumni"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Arthur Gatti (Interviewee)","Annie Tummino (Interviewer)","Mark Levy (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1950s-1970s (temporal)","Jackson, Miss.; Newark, NJ; Taxco de Alarcón and Iguala de la Independencia, Mexico; Astoria and Queens College, Flushing Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eArthur Gatti is an author and poet with a long history of involvement in activism and community organizing. \u0026nbsp;In the interview, he discusses his life growing up in Queens, NY in an Italian American household and how he gained political consciousness and awareness through his experiences and the influence of his friends. \u0026nbsp;One friendship he talks about at length is his relationship with Mario \u0026ldquo;Bob\u0026rdquo; Savio who later became known for his leadership role in the Free Speech Movement which originated on the Berkeley campus in California.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eGatti further relates his time as a student at Queens College in the early-to-mid 1960s where he was very involved in Left political organizations and campaigns. \u0026nbsp;One such project was the Queens College Mexico Volunteers where a group of Queens College students went to the towns of Taxco and Iguala in Mexico to assist in the construction of a school as well as support local infrastructural improvements. \u0026nbsp;While outlining the projects, Gatti and interviewer Mark Levy (who attended Queens College at the same time as Gatti) describe the campus culture and the political atmosphere of the mid 1960s.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAnother project that Gatti participated in was the rebuilding of churches in Black community in Jackson, Mississippi that had been burned down in retaliation for the Freedom Summer campaign in 1964 that worked to register previously unregistered Black voters. \u0026nbsp;And finally, after talking about his time in Mississippi, Gatti then describes his work as an organizer in the late 19060s as part of the Newark Community Union Project (NCUP). \u0026nbsp;NCUP was a project associated with the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) which was dedicated to empowering the Black community to work for racial justice and to combat social and economic disparity in Newark, New Jersey. \u0026nbsp;Gatti was in Newark in 1967 when the Newark Rebellion took place and he recounts his experiences on the ground during the insurrection as well as living in Newark in the aftermath.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/155/504/small/Screenshot_%28110%29.png?1649079970","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Gatti-Interview-zoom_0.mp4"]},"duration":5178.96,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/155/504/small/Screenshot_%28110%29.png?1649079970","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/155/504/original/Gatti-Interview-zoom_0.mp4?1649078933","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":5178.96,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: OK. We are recording today is November 19th, 2020. And my name is Annie Tummino. I'm Head of Special Collections and Archives at Queens College. And do both of you want to say your names?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Art Gatti.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Mark Levy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=22.0,22.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: And what year did both of you graduate from Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=22.0,28.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: '65.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=28.0,29.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Uh, I graduated in '65. Also, Art and I did not know each other back then, but we certainly passed through similar experiences and circles, but we didn't meet until, you know, what, 10, 15 years ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=29.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: And we discovered that I had written an angry letter toward [laughs] to the school, to the school newspaper about how heavy-handed Mark's control of a demonstration was. I thought that was a little–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=45.0,58.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: –and it got published. It got quoted in a book about–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=58.0,65.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: –Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=65.0,65.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: –about Goodman [Andrew Goodman], Chaney [James Chaney] and Schwerner [Michael Schwerner]. And he calls me bureaucratic and I probably plead guilty. I occasionally do have those tendencies, [crosstalk] But we got to be, we got to be friends also. I've been called worse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=65.0,85.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Before we go too much further. I'll just say that this is going to be an oral history that Mark Levy and I, Annie Tummino, will be conducting together with Art Gatti. Although Mark may share some of his memories along the way as well. And this oral history will be contributed to the Queens College Special Collections and Archives, and also become part of the Queens Memory Project, which is a joint initiative with the Queens Public Library. Um, so I guess we thought we'd just start up, uh, by asking Art, uh, where did you grow up? How would you describe your neighborhood?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=85.0,117.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Um, I did half of my growing up into adulthood in Astoria, uh, and, uh, interesting neighborhood, uh, uh, well populated. And then the last half of my growing up to adulthood was done in, uh, in the Eastern part of Queens, which is like the frontier. Uh, it was, you know, woods all around. We had three corner lots that were empty when I moved into my corner there. So we, you know, we played in the dirt a lot. Uh, there was very little urban sensitivity there. Uh, it was boring, it was stultifying. I had to get out. And then shortly after I left Queens, it became the most diverse borough in the country. Uh, but I, you know, uh, that was the sense of the places. Uh, there were a lot, there was an interesting ethnic mix in Astoria and it had that kind of thing that kids have to put up with back tho–, back in those days, at least of block consciousness, every block had its own little consciousness. And if you were raised on where I was, you didn't go to the next block because the other kids there that was their block, right. Uh, it was a mix of German, Italian, Irish. And then by the time I was leaving there, there was a lot of Greek people coming in, uh, the same ethnicity pretty much existed in Eastern Queens. Uh, but it was, you know, it was suburban. It was truly suburban. I don't know what you would call Astoria. It's sort of like middle urban or something, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=117.0,232.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Just for context. Do you mind stating, uh, what year you were born and when you switched from Astoria to–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=232.0,239.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Well, 19, I was born in 1942. Uh, and we, we were in, um, we were, I'm, I'm a little unclear about this, but I'm pretty sure we were there in 1950 or '52, uh, '51 possibly at the, uh, at the brink, um, in, uh, in what was called Bellerose, North Floral Park, Glen Oaks. That was the neighborhood.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=239.0,268.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: And you're from a, like a Italian American Catholic household?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=268.0,274.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: I wouldn't say Catholic. I caught, I kind of dragged them into the church as a kid and then, and then conveniently left it [laughs] when they were involved. So, no, they were pretty much unreligious, but my father's mother was a fanatic and her and my father's sister-in-law was a convert, therefore also a cana– a fanatic, and they tried to affect my growing up. So in a way I had to go to church. I, you know, I did all the sacramental things. I became an altar boy. I ca, I continued the altar boy thing into the move to, uh, Eastern Queens as well. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=274.0,320.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: And what were your parent's political views like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=320.0,323.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, I don't think my mother had any, uh, uh, the only thing I ever heard her say to me morally speaking was when I was dancing around at the death of Stalin. [laughs] She said you should never celebrate somebody's death. Uh, the, uh, my father was a kind of, he was a special case. Uh, my grandmother had to go to the docks when he was 16. You know, he was dragged here by her, uh, from a wonderful town, um, and put into the, uh, into the urban swamp where he hadda fight all the time. He was an Italian immigrant two years after the war, you know, the First World War. So he was very troubled. You needed to go back to Italy. And then when Mussolini came along, why that was his big, you know, Messiah. And he went down to the docks to join, you know, to get on a boat, to go there. And my grandmother got there before the boat did and grabbed him by the ear and took him home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=323.0,392.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: And so he sort of remained the reactionary all of his days. Um, I don't think he was a hateful right-winger. I think he basically was, um, against government, uh, you know, he was part of the Italian, uh, I suppose, uh, cynicism towards, you know, authority figures. So I had to go up against them a lot as I grew older and got my political consciousness, but I started off a little bit right-wing myself, um, you know, right out of high school, I guess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=392.0,431.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So I guess this might be jumping and we can always go back through, but what did bring you your own political consciousness?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=431.0,440.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, well, I, I credit a bookstore on the, on the edges of the Hofstra College at the time college, uh, campus, uh, lefty there who was a brilliant guy. And I had started to read Kerouac at the time and started to reconsider things, um, especially, you know, my stance against Castro. Uh, quickly or not quickly, but gradually like was informed as to what it was about instead of just, you know, flag-waving. Um, I, you know, I credit that bookstore owner to some extent. I credit the reading that I was doing at the time, poets, uh, who got to me. Um, I, at Hofstra, I was a political science minor, philosophy and political science. I was gonna major in it, but it was only my first year and a half there. Uh, and then the other, uh, influence in changing my, my attitudes toward things was Mario Savio, who I knew at the time as Bob Savio. Uh, and, uh, he just helped my brain get, uh, more logical than it was, uh, and thereby saw more truths than I had cause I was in a very backward neighborhood. Uh, my best friend's father was, uh, the most vicious, racist, uh, Lieutenant in the police department that you could imagine. Uh, stories he'd tell us were just awful, and we're supposed to laugh at them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=440.0,548.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, but you know, there was, uh, very little, uh, ethnic interaction in my neighborhood really. And, and, and I remember being delighted one time because my friend, my best friend that, unfortunately I discovered– I guess naturally because he had a father like that– uh, my best friend was, had a very mean streak in him. And he echoed a lot of the hateful stuff his father had, uh, brought into the family. His mother too. Um, and I remember being secretly delighted when a kid up the block named Horowitz got into a fight with him. And while they were fighting, my friend called him a \"Jew bastard.\" And I'm like, I sorta blanched and thought, \"Well, what does that have to do with your fight?\" And then he, my friend, lost the fight and I was secretly delighted to walk him home and help him nurse his wounds.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=548.0,609.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: But I, you know, and, and I said, I should go back to when my father was or had a shop in Astoria. Uh, very few, this was when I was eight or nine years old– very few, uh, uh, Black people in the area– but he, he had a presser working for him. We had a cleaner and tailor shop. Um, a presser named Jimmy who was a cheerful character. In one point– and my father and he got along, like they were, you know, bosom buddies or not that close, it was boss and employee– but, um, at one point I asked him about Jimmy. I said, \"Jimmy is a nice guy, isn't he, Dad?\" And he said, \"Yeah, he's a good boy.\" I said, I said, \"Well, what, why, why, why are you calling him boy?\" My father said, \"Well, everybody does.\" And the other thing I noticed is that when he was talking, if he talked to a Black person, sometimes he would use the name \"Jackson.\" And I'd say, \"Is that his name?\" And my father would say, \"No, but, but everybody does that. You know, it's like, 'Hey, Murphy', you know, to an Irishman or 'Hey Jackson' for a Black guy.\" So I started to see the inequities built into the system because I was there around that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=609.0,697.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Once I moved to the other part of Queens, I was getting into the R\u0026B scene and it was all Black. I had a group in high school, we had a Black bass named, uh, Curtis James. And, um, I remember it becoming like, you know, a United Nations issue at, in my neighborhood to talk about having a doo-wop rehearsal in my backyard with a Black man. Uh, eventually it happened, but it was, I couldn't understand the discomfort people were having. And I think that was my real introduction into the Civil Rights Movement was, was, uh, you know, face-to-face with Black people singing, sharing the same breath, and making sounds. And the sounds were, you know, harmony which is what racial harmony is about, I guess. Looking for words.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=697.0,765.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Mark, did you have any follow-up questions on any of this before we–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=765.0,773.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: No, this is great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=773.0,773.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Um, I was going to ask then and you went to Hofstra first then, and you transferred to Queens College? Is that right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=773.0,781.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: That's right, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=781.0,781.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So take us through that. Um, what, uh, why did you decide to transfer? And, you know, we just did a, another interview where I think Mark, as well as another, uh, alum had transferred into Queens College. So it was interesting to hear their comparisons of kind of where they went first and what Queens College was like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=781.0,799.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Well, uh, okay. Uh, first of all, I, you know, my parents were, uh, footing the bill at Hofstra. And the, uh, the, uh, credit, uh, costs went up. And I had reached the level where I could qualify to enter Queens. I was, I was a terrible high school student. I really didn't want to be in school. I didn't want to, I didn't want to be told what to learn. Um, and so I had very low, very low, uh, overall score, but my college boards [referring to SAT scores] were off th– were through the roof. So they let me into Hofstra. Um, and that's when I, in three semesters, I was able to get my grade point average up eleven points. So I got myself into Queens because it was a, an economic thing, but it was also much more convenient. I didn't have to be driven. I could take a bus. And it was also where my friend Mario or Bob Savio was, was attending. So we, you know, we were able to get closer in on that count.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=799.0,874.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Where did, where did you first meet Bob Savio? And how did you become friends?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=874.0,880.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: I think it was the morning when both of us were kneeling at the altar and we hadn't decided which one of us carried the bet, the book, and which one of us rang the bell. And we hadn't decided— , we're both altar boys who was much more, well, I think I was, I thought I was going to be a priest. [laughs] And then I thought I was going to be in the service. And then I thought I was going to be a chaplain. And then I thought I was going to be the first chaplain on the moon. Um, so I had these varying ambitions. He was more practical. He was a science person. Um, despite all of his help, I was terrible in math and remain that way 'til this very day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=880.0,928.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Um, uh, so yeah, he, he was a guy in the neighborhood who, um, I have to say he was a tragic figure to a lot of people, um, myself included because he was, uh, so totally debilitated by his stutter. People don't know that about him. Um, I remember they, he was such a good student in high school. They talked him into running for the GO President and, um, at the assembly where people were introducing themselves to be voted on, it took him two minutes, two minutes to say, \"Hi, my name is Bob Savio.\" It took him that long to get it all out. It was explosive. [imitates] Bah! Bah! Bah! And so he became somehow the butt of many jokes. I mean, people would, uh, you know, uh, do stutter jokes that basically were, uh, cruel, but, you know, obvious. Um, uh, he, he succumbed, he, he, he conquered that when he got into musical theater because he didn't stutter when he sang. And when the two of us were in Mexico in '63, uh, he didn't, uh, didn't stutter in Spanish. [pause] Anyway. So yeah, that was, he was my, and he was a moral compass. Uh, so, uh, that was my experience in college, as far as he was concerned about where my consciousness started to shift.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=928.0,1036.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: And then you transfer into Queens College he's already there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1036.0,1040.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Right. Right. We put on our first demonstration— that's the one that Mark was, uh, was the bureaucratic head of—[laughter] March on Albany about, uh, \"Our position, no tuition.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1040.0,1055.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Savio was a transfer student also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1055.0,1058.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah, he was, he was at Manhattan College originally, right. With the Jesuits. Um, I think he sort of started to shy away from religion around then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1058.0,1072.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So tell us about that first demonstration that you went to. And Mark, if you want to say your memories of it too, that would be fun to hear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1072.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: I just remember it was miserably cold. Slush all over the ground. Um, yeah, it was our position, we're chanting, very gentle chants, in front of the State House. Um, I remember writing a poem about, uh, uh, one line being the, uh— who was it, Schuyler [Philip Schuyler], I guess it was, uh, uh, a statue of a guy named Schuyler— one of the early governors of the state, on a horse. All right. And I wrote a poem about the horse's ass or something like that. I don't know. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1080.0,1123.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: It was about tuition?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1123.0,1125.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. It was, they wanted to impose a, uh, an amount that it was something that most students probably wouldn't have a problem with, but there were a number of students of course who would. And so, you know, just that was—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1125.0,1141.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Cuz at this time tuition was free.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1141.0,1141.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1141.0,1143.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: If I remember correctly, it was just increasing a student fee, not, not even tuition, but, uh, students saw that as, you know, a crack in the wall, the beginnings of tuition.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1143.0,1160.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. It was like 45 dollars or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1160.0,1162.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Yeah, absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1162.0,1165.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So what are your memories of what Queens College was like? I know when we talked to Mark [Levy], he mentioned that there was this place \"The Caf,\" where the kind of more Bohemian students hung out. I'm just curious about your impressions of what the campus was like and who you associated with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1165.0,1183.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, Hmm. Well, uh, it was, it was, it was abuzz. Let me say that for sure. Uh, I recall that we were in the midst of a presidential campaign with Barry Goldwater as a threatened, uh, you know, a possible president. Uh, I remember, uh, tables in the, um, I guess it was the quad, right. Uh, what was that building, uh, that had that wonderful exterior where everybody could hang out? Mark, what was that? Was that the quad? [pause] Now the quad is a, is an area. Never mind. Um, student union, the student union. What, what was that building?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1183.0,1230.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: [responding but muted]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1230.0,1234.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Mark, we can't hear you. I think you are muted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1234.0,1236.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: You're muted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1236.0,1238.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Can you hear me now? Yeah. Okay. Um, I didn't want to slosh my coffee with, uh, not being muted. Um, I, I actually don't remember when some of the different buildings were built. Uh, I remember hanging out in the cafeteria, the old cafeteria building. And at some point while between when I started and before I graduated in '65, that they built a new cafeteria. So I'm not quite sure, you know, when the big area in front of the cafeteria was opened up or as opposed to when things were done right in the cafeteria, which was the old sandstone building over there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1238.0,1289.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Do you remember the, uh, the places where political tables would be set up inside? Was that, that building?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1289.0,1297.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: That must have been the new cafeteria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1297.0,1299.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Okay. Yeah, of course. I remember, like there was a —, uh, uh, what would you call it? A porch? A ballast?— something that went along or you go up some steps and there would be this porch wrapped around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1299.0,1313.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Oh, then that was the old building. That was the old sandstone building. If you're talking about the outside deck that went around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1313.0,1322.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Right. I remember seeing Paul Simon and a bunch of people playing instruments there. And, uh, yeah. And, and as I recall, the table that I was thinking of, it was a, uh, an LBJ table, I guess, uh, running up against Barry Goldwater, and we had tables next door to each other or whatever. And, um, uh, and then later on, you know, as, as the civil rights movement grew there were those tables there, um, [pause] seemed to me, like activity was all over the campus. So I, I re I remember cafeteria that was kind of a grim setting where it had like coffee machines in the corner or had, you know, fast food like cookie machines or whatever they were where you could—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1322.0,1381.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Art, were you on campus when the student strike around the speaker ban was there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1381.0,1388.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: I don't think so. I think that was —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1388.0,1391.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: I think that was '61, '62 —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1391.0,1393.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: —No, no, I didn't get there until, um, until '63. I, excuse me, I took a year off after high school. Cuz I didn't think I was gonna go to college. I thought I was gonna become, uh, I, you know, I had, I had attempted to get accepted into Navy ROTC. Uh, this was in my, you know, uh, so-called patriotic days. Uh, I, you know, I grew up in the War and I thought of that as, as noble, you know, to do that. Um, anyway, I didn't get into an ROTC for a couple of pretty good reasons. Um, and then I decided, well, I'll go to officer's candidate school. So I'm just gonna not go to school and blah, blah, blah. My parents talked me into going to college, uh, trying out for Hofstra about two years later they regretted it, [laughs] of course of my politics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1393.0,1457.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, and so, you know, uh, I think it was, I, I, I started Hofstra in '62 and went through, into, uh, the summer of '6—, uh, '6—. Yeah. Well, let's see. Summer of '63. I'm trying to get these dates correct here. In any case when Hofstra's, um, credit rate, uh, charges went up uh that's when I decided to go over to Queens. So I guess that demonstration was in February of '63 at somewhere like that. Right. Somewhere in there. Yeah. So that was, I just arrived basically. And that's when Savio said, come on, we're going.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1457.0,1505.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So tell me, I guess I want to get into some of the major projects that you were involved in, uh, around this time, uh, while you were enrolled at Queens college. And, uh, you went to Mexico, uh, I believe it looked like the group was referred to as the Queens College Mexico Volunteers. And can you just tell us about that project, and why you signed up, and what the actual experience was like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1505.0,1529.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Well, you know, it was, um, you got to understand this was a commuter college and I had a commute back to that neighborhood I was living in. And, uh, I had to look forward to another summer and I was hoping that there would be something for me to do during the summer. Savio, uh, talked me and Kevin Donnellan into going to this, uh, uh, talk at the Newman club, which was a Catholic club. Uh, and the guy talking, it was a Maryknoll missioner whose discussion about the Mexico Volunteers, that had formed the year before at some other campus, was so inspiring. I said, you know, Savio and I said, we're going to do this. Uh, you know, he got encouragement from his family. I got discouragement from mine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1529.0,1588.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, you know, that was the very first of my projects. But then when I got back, um, I had been committed to, uh, the following year doing a school, but there, the campus was, you know, I was a part of, I joined, uh, earlier on I joined SNCC [Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee]. I joined CORE [Congress of Racial Equality] campus, campus groups. Right. Um, and we went on demonstrations— the one against the, uh, the one at the, um, uh, World's Fair. Uh, some other ones here and there. Not, not, not big. I wasn't heavily involved. I had friends in something called Students for a New Left that I was, um, uh, you know, playing around with a little bit thinking about, um, but you know, the, the coming back in '64 was a challenge because Freedom Summer was going to happen. And, here I was committed to the school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1588.0,1654.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Meaning the school in Mexico? Can you tell, talk a little bit more about what the commitment was for people who don't know what you [crosstalk] did in Mexico?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1654.0,1661.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Okay. What happened was what happened was in '63, we all went down to work in various projects that had been set up by local Mexican charities. Um, and I guess we just came with too many volunteers. They weren't ready for everybody. So they let the women stay in a town in the hotlands, town called Iguala, where they worked in clinics and dispensaries and taught people how to use care packages and whatever. And, uh, the guys were sent up the hill to of all places Taxco. Now Taxco is like a gem. It's a, um, it's a tourist place, but there were a lot of outlyin' misery. There was a lot of stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1661.0,1710.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: So Savio got there way before me with, with his group. I had to work in a factory to be able to afford the whole thing. So I had some work ahead of me, but while they were there they canvassed poor areas and discovered what was needed. And they tried to provide it, but they found a lot of, uh, government interference there in that, in that town. So that by the time I arrived, the project had been scrapped and Savio just said, \"I've had it.\" And he went to, instead of going back to New York, he went to join his parents who had moved to San Francisco over the summer. Uh, so that left me with two or three other volunteers. One of them was Kevin Donnellan and he, and I said, well, you know, I'm, I'm not going back to Queens for the summer. You know, I said that for sure, [laughter] I'll be a peon, I will, you know, I will grovel in the dirt before I go back to Queens with a summer. Um, and so the Kevin [Donnellan] and I found the project, then we, uh, spent the summer in Mexico, the rest of the summer in Mexico city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1710.0,1784.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: However, unbeknownst to us when Savio left, uh, he had spoken with an old guy who was one of his, Zapata's, uh, troops. Um, and, uh, that guy told 'em a story about a school that needed, uh, publicity at least, from the gringo [translation: foreigner] presence, so that the government would continue to build the school. Uh, it's a very long story, but in any case, Savio made a commitment said that we at the Queens College Mexico Volunteers will gather the funds, we'll bring, uh, volunteer workers. And to the end, uh, purpose of shaming the government in that town into completing the school, because once you complete a school in Mexico, the government, the federal government, provides books, teachers, salaries, equipment, et cetera. So, I mean, this town felt that it wasn't worth the effort to help them build the school, because there were very few people in that area that paid taxes. [pause] Anyway. So Savio got as, as wrapped up in the, uh, the precedings or the, what preceded the, uh, uh, Freedom Summer, uh, uh, you know, massive involvement. And, um, and just said to me, \"Look, I, you know, you're Queens, you can find the volunteers. I don't know anybody here. I'm going to Freedom Summer. Good luck.\" And I —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1784.0,1885.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Basically you found out about the school in '63 with a commitment to bring people back for [crosstalk] summer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1885.0,1891.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. I mean, Savio and I had been working on it all through the winter '63, you know. Uh, and, and, um, so I mean, you know, it was working on, you know, we were planning. We were finding volunteers. We didn't have money, you know. People had to raise the money to get there. Um, but, uh, but anyway, you know, so he, he, he bailed first and left me holding the bag. And, uh, so I did my best to try to get people involved. Then, you know, the story about Andy Goodman, uh, w which if you'd like, I'll repeat it here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1891.0,1930.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Yeah, let's do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1930.0,1930.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Oh, yeah, yeah. OK. So Kevin and I, Kevin Donnellan and I were out there, you know, uh, beating the bushes for volunteers. And I talked Andy Goodman into coming to a meeting, the first, uh, reunion of the, uh, of the people who had been there the fall, the previous year. Now, the women had very good stories to tell because they were in the town where they really did some good. Where the men would just sort of like, you know, stymied at every turn. Um, and the women mostly, uh, consist—, they, the reunion consisted mostly of the women who would talk about the joyousness of interacting with Mexican families and talked about, uh, fiestas. And talked about this, talked about that. Cuz it was the reward, I guess, for having been involved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1930.0,1985.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Oh, can I ask a quick question? Did you all speak Spanish or— ? And did you speak Italian, uh, when you were growing up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1985.0,1993.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, you know, I was telling you what a bad student I was. So at some point in high school, they said, \"Look, Gatti, you have two and a half years of Spanish. Obviously, you know, your 65 average is not getting you anywhere. You don't have to take the other half. Yeah. You don't have to have three years.\" I said, [clasps hands] \"Thank you.\" And then I went into, into Hofstra and had an Italian course with probably the worst teacher you could imagine. And so I kind of picked up a little. And so the following year, I'm in Mexico and I'm remembering some of my present tense Spanish, and speaking it with a decided Italian accent. And, you know, um, and eventually by the end of that year, I was able to be very fluent in the present tense, uh, of that stay, you know. And then of course went back to Hofs—, uh, to Queens [College] and took, you know, one after another Spanish courses. Um, so that by, you know, the following year when we were doing the, the, um, uh, the school, I was, uh, I was fluent in all, in most of the important tenses. However, I spoke very slowly because I was having to weigh my words as opposed to that first year where it was all spewed out in the present. Um, and that was an issue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=1993.0,2075.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Another follow-up question. Were there any faculty involved in this Mexico project or supporting this Mexico project?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2075.0,2083.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Nope.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2083.0,2085.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: I have two little questions that I want to, I would hope that you would finish up the Andy Goodman story, just so I have it in mind. In '63, about how many Queens college students were down with you? And then in '64, about how many were involved? Ballpark.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2085.0,2104.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, okay. Um, you have to understand that when I went down in '63, I was there six weeks after the guys that everybody had gotten there. Uh, I recall maybe six women, eight women down in, uh Iguala, which was the town just below Taxco in the, in the hotlands. Um, I remember a few of their names. Uh, and you know, they, a lot of them were student nurses. Uh, so they got to do their thing. Um, the guys, I remember there were two Kevins. Um, there was, you know, Kevin Donnellan, Kevin Daley, there's Savio and damned if I can't remember the other ones. Uh, I think one of them was, um— [pause] Nope, I don't remember those names so well, might've been Bill DiScipio might've been at that one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2104.0,2162.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: So ballpark 10?—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2162.0,2162.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Eh—.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2162.0,2162.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: —Between 10 and 15?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2162.0,2164.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: More like a dozen, more like a dozen. Yeah. That's why when we arrived at Taxco, uh, sorry, when they arrived at Iguala, they said, \"Oh, we don't have room for all you guys.\" \"But you said to bring as many down as we can.\" And that's how we ended up, up there where we were where the, uh, we ate, the guys ate in the, in the homes of some of the richest people and Savio preached his socialist doctrine. Pretty soon nobody was eating anywhere. [laughter] And, um, when I got there, we were eating in restaurants. I'd eat next door. Uh, I didn't like Mexican food [laughs] at the time. Um, and, uh, yeah, so, yeah, that's why when Savio became famous and they went down there and interviewed people, the priests said he was a communist, the communist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2164.0,2223.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Um, let's, let's fast forward again, back, you know, to the decision where you tried to recruit, well, I guess Savio made his decision. He said he was going to go to Mississippi. And then you convince Andy Goodman to come to a meeting about the Mexico project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2223.0,2239.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Right, and what happened there was the women were very delighted and, you know, they were talking about the rewards of being there. They weren't talking about the hardships. They weren't talking about what would, what one should anticipate. Um, and, and Andy said, \"You know, listen Art, it sounds good and all, but it doesn't sound like it's serious enough. I want to do something serious this summer.\" And I said, \"You know, wish I could be with you because, you know, I got to do this.\" And, uh, and I think Kevin [Donnellan], as you could tell by those notes, had more input with Andy [Goodman]. And, you know, it just worked out the way it did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2239.0,2283.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Yeah. Um, it's in the archives that people want to see a recollection that Kevin Donnellan wrote about his interactions with Andy Goodman. But is there anything else you want to say about what you heard about that? Art?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2283.0,2296.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, no, I essentially, I sort of encapsulated the feelings involved. I mean, you know, he saw the Mexico Volunteers as worthwhile, but, you know, he saw as I did, you know, the, the, the mission down south to be much more important. Um, you know, so, no, I guess that's all I could say about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2296.0,2323.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: When you got back to campus after each of those different Mexico, um, experiences, how did it feel on campus? And how did it change you when you would get back from Mexico to come back to Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2323.0,2344.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Um, well you mean the first, the first year coming back, uh, we, you know, we had been involved in, um, uh, the politics of a presidential race. Uh, I, you know, I got swept up into things and, uh, you know, planning to bring, you know, a half a dozen, uh, uh, guys down to Mexico the following year with some money to do what was essentially publicity to shame, uh, the government in Taxco and some finishing thing was secondary in my mind. I had, it was not a big thing. Um, and so, you know, I was involved in trying to defeat Barry Goldwater. I was involved in— I think I'm not sure if that was when the, uh, demonstration, uh, at the, uh, World's Fair. What year was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2344.0,2405.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: That must have been '64 because that was the year—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2405.0,2407.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. So there was that happening. There were all these different things happening. Uh, and, uh, and then the teach-ins against the war. That was another, another big thing that I think that was more when I got back after—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2407.0,2419.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: It was the following year—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2419.0,2421.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: —Yeah, it was the following year, but the following year, uh, you know, when I came back, it was all about, you know, the horrors of, uh, of the murders of, uh, Goodman, Chaney, and Schwerner. And, and the campus was, you know, abuzz about that. Um, and that's when, um, uh, when the church rebuilding things started to, you know, to come together, uh, because it was like right after, you know, right after Freedom Summer. You know, the Night Riders didn't wait very long before they went and bombed and burned out churches. So, um, you know, so that was part of, one of the things was, um, we were planning to go to, to Mississippi to, uh, work on the churches.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2421.0,2474.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: And it was, uh, there was a lot of, uh, I guess, kind of orientation if you call it that, where people were challenging your nonviolent position. You had to be a nonviolent person. I was never much of a fighter. My father wanted me to be one. But, um, so I, you know, I remember Kevin Donnellan and my friend Charlie—we were, uh, you know, a familiar trio—um, beating me up in my bedroom just to see if I would respond. They, you know, they pummeled me, but they just said, \"Oh, you're going to be nonviolent. Now watch this.\" [laughs] And anyway, um, so, you know, we got to go and that was when we had a very inspirational, uh, uh, person behind the whole project Sid Simon, wonderful teacher, uh, um, uh, it was good to be with him on that trip.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2474.0,2539.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Um, so, uh, yeah, so '64 was much more, uh, you know, close to the bone as far as organizing, as far as politics was concerned. And the, uh, the end of that year was when the Free Speech Movement started in, um, California and suddenly Savio was all over the place. Um, and at one point, um, I had, by that time, I had joined Students for the New Left. And I'm trying to remember the names of some of the guys —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2539.0,2579.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Art, do you mean Students for Democratic Society? Or, was Students -","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2579.0,2581.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: No, this was called Students for a New Left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2581.0,2585.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: OK. I'm not familiar with that organization.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2585.0,2585.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: OK. Well, let's say it started up–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2585.0,2588.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Was that Bob Roth and those guys?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2588.0,2588.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: No. Roth wasn't in it. Uh, Rosen, Rosenfeld. What was his name? Was it Rosenfeld? There were two brothers. I can't remember the names. And then there was Howie Epstein who was one of the, the head guys. So Howie [Epstein] and I became friendly. I was, uh, you know, I was a sort of a member of Students for a New Left and Savio was coming into LaGuardia to be on the Les Crane Show, which was at the time a big deal, you know, nighttime talk show, controversial topics, whatever. And so, uh, Howie [Epstein] and I decided we would go to LaGuardia to meet him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2588.0,2633.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Right. And we see one of the guys standing in line is this clean cut person with, you know, a suit and tie. And the whole thing. I wonder if this is one of those spooks that are always going to be, you know, looking at us and whatever. So we sidle up to him and say, you know, \"Hi, what's your name?\" And he tells us his name. And, um, I said, \"Well, what, why are you here? To see Savio?\" And he said, \"Yeah, because I want to interest him in our organization.\" I said, \"What's your organization?\" The guy's name is Clark Kissinger. And Clark said, we are the Students for Democratic Society [SDS]. And, uh, uh, so I said, \"Well, I never heard of them.\" And then he talks about League for Industrial Democracy, how we sprung out of that. And we were \"OK.\" So by the time Savio arrived we were into what this guy was talking about. And it's, it's national. It's not just this one little, you know, clump of, uh, students on Queens College. So Students for a New Left after that became SDS [Students for Democratic Society].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2633.0,2705.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: That name must've been different. It couldn't have been Clark Kissinger. Clark Kissinger was the sort of right wing Secretary of State–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2705.0,2717.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: No, that was Henry Kissinger.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2717.0,2718.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Oh, oh. I'm sorry. My fault. Mea culpa.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2718.0,2721.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: And the other one, the other name I mixed up with at the time cause of involvement with Savio was Clark Kerr, which [crosstalk]. Clark Kissinger was the, the, you know, the regional director I think. Anyway, so you know, taking that lead, we, uh, we, we formed Queens College SDS and it wasn't, wasn't long after that, um, that, you know, the first teach-ins were happening around the country. And I think Queens was like the third school to have a teach-in","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2721.0,2759.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Was the teach-in about the Vietnam War?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2759.0,2761.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: About the war. Yeah, about the war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2761.0,2763.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Yeah, it's you know, we don't hear as much about the activism in the earlier part of the decade about the Vietnam War.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2763.0,2772.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yep. I know it was early. It was a big, exciting thing that had happened around that time was the self-immolation of the Buddhist monk that was being played all over the place. We had this one woman who was a Brit who said, [imitates accent] \"Well, I told my, my father that I would join the Viet Cong. He said, 'I will pay for a gallon of gas'.\" [laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2772.0,2802.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Can I ask you one more question about your politics at that time? I was just curious since you kind of came from a, I guess more conservative or a little reactionary background, um, what did you think about socialism then? Um, around this time in class politics?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2802.0,2819.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. I felt that was the reasonable system to be, you know, for us to have. I knew that would never happen in my lifetime, but also I knew about denial and I knew how so many of the programs we already had were based on socialist principles, at least, you know. When I was at, uh, in Newark –I don't know if I'm jumping ahead – uh, we were visited by Oriana Fallaci who was this famous right wing, right wing [correcting himself] famous, uh, left wing journalist, uh, from Italy. And she was just fascinated that there was an Italian American in a group like that. And, you know, she said, you know, \"When, when we were in Italy, when we were already knowing that we were fucked by these, by this Mussolini guy, uh, Italian Americans in New York were marching around with his banner.\" So she said, \"I think there was always a cutoff between the two consciousnesses, uh, um, you know, Italians and Italian Americans.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2819.0,2894.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So I guess I'll go back around to Newark. Mark, you have a question?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2894.0,2898.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: No, I was just going to ask about Newark and when he was there and what it was like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2898.0,2903.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Uh, maybe first, could we talk a little bit more about Mississippi? I'm just so I know you–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2903.0,2908.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Oh yes, please –","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2908.0,2908.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: –from Mississippi and Sid Simon was a faculty member that went with you. And this would have been around January, February of '65. I believe –","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2908.0,2918.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: No. It was, it was, I think it was more like November. I'm, um, I'm not a hundred percent on this, but I know that we had a spring time, uh, group go down that I wasn't able to join,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2918.0,2931.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Yeah –.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2931.0,2931.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: –but I organized.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2931.0,2932.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: According to the finding aid, it says, uh, that we have on file. It says this was like a winter trip. Maybe. I don't know if that was before the end of the semester. And then there was a spring trip that was maybe more like March or April or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2932.0,2943.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: OK. OK. So yeah, that's probably true. Cause it was, yeah, I think it was January, February because I was amazed at all the greenery that was down there and it was so lush. Uh, yeah. So–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2943.0,2957.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Well, talk about that trip. I know you caravanned together [crosstalk] in car, in this taxicab.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2957.0,2963.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. We had to, um, uh, you know, we were going, we were headed for the Tougaloo College campus outside of Jackson, Mississippi. Uh, and they were looking around for adequate transportation and found a group called the Society of Brothers who were people– I think they were responsible for the children's toy line, Creative Playthings. They made things out of wood, but it was one of those toy lines. And they had a commune Upstate New York, and one of their vehicles was a checker cab. So they volunteered to let us use the checker's cab and that has seats on the sides and everything. So seven people could easily travel down south in that. Uh, we did one, one swoop took us like 19 hours, I think, switching drivers and, and getting down there. Um, and, uh, you know, that was our, that was our vehicle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=2963.0,3028.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Were the churches, the churches that were burned that needed to be rebuilt, was the Ku Klux Klan responsible for that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3028.0,3035.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. And the White Citizens' Council and any, any, you know, any bohunk who had a torch and a bomb or whatever. And, uh, well, one of the things that we were reassured by is that because of the deaths of the three civil rights workers the area was full of FBI investigators. And it was assumed, or at least maybe reported, that there was a moratorium on any kind of action between the racist groups, the Night Riders and whatever, and the a, and the, the FBI while the investigations were going on. So ostensibly, we weren't going to be in the gun sights of snipers while we were on the roofs of churches building, you know, putting tiles down or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3035.0,3089.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Do you remember the names of the towns you worked in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3089.0,3092.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: The towns where it's all, it was all around, uh, the Tougaloo campus area. So they were all just little farm, farm places, but I remember Good Hope Baptist. Good Hope Baptist was a year or so ago blown up by Trump people, you know, so there you go. You know–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3092.0,3113.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Wow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3113.0,3113.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: So this was around, they were all around Jackson?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3113.0,3117.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: All around the outskirts of Jackson, near the Tougaloo campus. We stayed, I stayed in the farmhouse of a family with, uh, you know, think Bob Masters and I shared a giant big bed. And this room that was heated by a cedar wood stove. [chef's kiss] What a nice smell, what a nice smell. Uh, although, although the outhouse was something to be desired. It put me off bacon for a long time. What it was was the outhouse in that room was a, a closet that you went into and, you know, with the appropriate hole at the bottom. And after doing your business, you hear all these pigs squealing. Apparently it was situated right above the pig pen. So I passed on the bacon that morning. I'm sorry about that, how grim a story that is, but it was country living and it was lovely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3117.0,3182.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Um, and, uh, we were, uh, more or less hosted by a guy named Ed King. Who was, um, uh, you remember Ed king, right? And Ed, uh, was a white minister in the Communitarian Church. That was the chapel that was on campus. Um, Ed had been, you know, an avid Civil Rights worker. In one point, his car had been driven off the road by some Klan pickup truck or whatever, and it caught fire so half of his face was burnt away. But, he was on the Mississippi Freedom Democratic ticket in '68, you know, he continued to be an inspiration. So that was, uh, that was one of the big pluses of being there. Um, and Sid Simon, you know, was, uh, was a good person to have around. And then he was, uh, he told me things about myself that I needed to know. That you know only an adult who was smart could, you know. Taught me not to talk so much. So, you know, be still with your thoughts. It was a Zen teacher, you know? Um, and, uh, and so it goes, so I'll stop. [laughter]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3182.0,3267.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: How many guys were on the trip and what \"guys\" [corrects himself] other students were on the trip with you? And what was the interaction between all of you sorta like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3267.0,3279.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: It was, you know, it was cordial. We, uh, we were, uh, know determined people. Um, Bob Masters, Rob, uh, what's his name? Um, Walt Jarsky, uh, Gus Pereos, uh, um, uh, what's the, uh, Chinese guy's name? Uh, Japanese, I'm sorry. Um, and one more guy, John Alexander. I don't know–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3279.0,3314.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Probably look this up too. You keep talking and I'll see if I find any other names.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3314.0,3318.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Well, in any case, uh, I apologize to him for having forgotten his name momentarily. Uh, he was at the reunion, you know, uh, we had at Jarsky's house. Remember who, you remember who I'm talking about, Mark?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3318.0,3335.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: I think I found a list of the people that went. Um, it says the first, well, it's the first trip, which is the one you were on was John Alexander, uh, Nick \"Gus\" Pereos,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3335.0,3346.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Gus Pereos, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3346.0,3346.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Walt Jarsky, Art Gatti, Robert Masters, and Bob Madden.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3346.0,3350.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Bob Madden-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3350.0,3352.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: #NAME?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3352.0,3352.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Bob Madden. That was the name. And, uh, um, so yeah, I mean, it was, it was cordial. We, uh, as I said, Bob and, uh, Bob Masters and I shared, uh, a gigantic bed. So how, how much friendly can you be, friendlier can you be? We, I think, we ate at the student union at Tougaloo. Um, and, uh, and basically, yeah, we, we just ranged out of there to go each day to a different church to work sometimes on laying, you know, pouring cement in the driveway, sometimes painting benches, sometimes just working on the structure itself. And, you know, and, and this was all under the, uh, the watchful eye of the Mennonites and the Quakers who invited this group together. You know, they, uh, the second group had a guy named Lou Fine. Um, in it, and they got to all eat around a giant table. And, um, and there were people from every religion, you know, Mennonites, Quakers. There's, there was a rabbi, there was a minister, there's a bunch of people of different religions. And, um, and for some reason they let Lou Fine do the grace. So he sat at the table in front of all of these [clasps hands like in prayer], you know, erudite and holy men and said, \"Rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub. [raises one hand in a fist] Yay God.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3352.0,3449.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: I think Rodney Pollack was on that second trip too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3449.0,3453.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Was he? Ron Pollack. Ron became the head of, uh, what is that? Families USA.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3453.0,3459.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Yeah, exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3459.0,3460.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. It was Ron [Pollack] joined Howie Epstein and me on the summer trip to NCUP [Newark Community Union Project] in New Jersey to see whether we were all gonna volunteer. And, uh, Howie [Epstein] and I volunteered, but Ron [Pollack], uh, chose not to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3460.0,3478.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Ron was a bureaucrat like me. He was a student body president.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3478.0,3482.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: I remember that. Yes. Yeah. Yup.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3482.0,3486.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: One question about your time in Mississippi. I did have the fortune to be able to talk to Sid Simon on the phone. And, um, I was asking him about that experience and he mentioned that there was, uh, one of his strong memories was someone being stationed outside with a shotgun to guard the house every night. I just was wondering if you remembered that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3486.0,3508.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: No, I don't remember what house we're talking about because as I say, we're, I, I wonder if we were all in the same farmhouse. It was a family called Guice, G U I C E [spells out letters]. Um, I remember them one of the elder men in the family who collected old cars, but he just kept them outside in the elements. I don't, I think they were all just rusting away. Um, no, you know, that's unclear a lot of it's unclear. Uh, yeah. OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3508.0,3544.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: What was it like to sort of, uh, um, you know, be in the Deep South and experience a place that had a different level of segregation and danger?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3544.0,3557.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, it was, it was, there was a certain thrill to that whole aspect of it, the danger and all. But there was, you know, wide open spaces and it was, uh, unaccustomed, you know, in that sense it was rural. I wasn't used to rural. So it was a exotic experience to some extent. Um, I remember one night we went into a town to see a James Bond movie. And we had a young Black kid with us who was the younger brother of a prominent civil rights worker. And, uh, we were in a car and we saw the James Bond movie. And in the James Bond movie, there was this point where James is being, um, uh, tailed by somebody in his little Austin-Healey, and he presses some buttons and, you know, jagged things come into the road so that the pursuing car gets its tires, torn up or whatever. And so we leave the movie, we get in the car and we're driving down a country road. And sure enough behind us is a pickup truck with its lights off tailing us. And we're thinking, Jesus, this is where, you know, we need something from double oh seven. And then I remembered that the kid in the backseat, who's the young brother of a, of a prominent civil rights worker, Julian Bond, is named James Bond. [laughs] He was sitting in the backseat with us, but we got to our destination and nobody gave us any trouble. That was mostly just to terrorize us, I guess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3557.0,3662.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Art, you would enjoy that one of Sid's main memories that he kept talking about when he was interviewed was the checkered cab. He kept talking about the checkered cab. He remembered that. He remembered it being donated, and what a time it was with all of you in it. So I have a question jumping way ahead unless, Annie, you have more questions about that era?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3662.0,3688.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: I was thinking from now we could move to New Jersey or, what came next.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3688.0,3690.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Well, I was going to ask: at what point did you, Art, discover you were cursed with, uh, being a poet? [laughter] And seeing the world as a writer, uh, and a poet? I mean that sort of changes how you see and do things, right? How artists are a little bit different than just plain old activists?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3690.0,3717.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Well, I guess my first inspiration was José Ferrer as Cyrano, uh, who, uh, to me embodied a lot of the things that I was interested in. Uh, you know, he was, uh, a defender of his nation. He was a soldier. Um, he was an expert duelist, and he, uh, and, and to top it all, he wrote verses as he dueled. Right. And so that image stayed with me. And then as I became more of a reader and I was reading, you know, the macho poets, um, I realized that there were, you know, there were things about language that, that inspired me, as well as these other more, I guess, maybe, uh, altruistic things. Um, and, and then, you know, it sort of peaked when I started to read Kerouac and got into haiku. And, um, so I guess I realized I was cursed with it by the time I got to Queens College, because, uh, that was when I minored in, uh, in, uh, English and, uh, finally got my degree in creative writing and, uh, uh, English Lit of all things —should have been journalism, but it was creative writing, English Lit. And the creative light writing part I concentrated in poetry. So had a 17 hour final in it, and it was—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3717.0,3811.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Did, did you ever take courses with Stepanchev [Stephen Stepanchev]—.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3811.0,3812.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Definitely—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3812.0,3812.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: —or any of the po—?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3812.0,3815.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: —Yeah, Stepanchev, yeah. Stepanchev, um, uh, proctored my, uh, final exam set, you know, as I said, there was a 17 hour final. And, I guess toward the end there was a two and a half hour sit down thing, and Stepanchev was feeding me stuff to parse and to interpret and whatever. And then, you know, a few years ago I was in touch with him, uh, in his retirement. I got a nice letter from him. He was still writing at 102. He was an amazing guy. The guy that mostly inspired me — I looked up all the, all the teachers who were at Queens and I never found him, but he was spending a sabbatical there as whatever a visiting professor— his name was Milton Kessler, Milton Kessler. And I guess he, his work inspired me the most, uh, to, in, in, in terms of the forms that I was using.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3815.0,3878.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: I am getting out of it's, you know, I, I won a, um, a city wide or CUNY [City University of New York] wide, um, manuscript of poetry award, uh, in '65 for what was essentially mostly haiku. Um, and, uh, it was something called the Dwight Durling award. And, you know, that and 50 cents got me on the subway. Well, actually there was an award that came with it. There was about a hundred bucks. So far my entire earnings of 60 years of poetry is almost $500.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3878.0,3921.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: [laughs] But the subway fees have gone up even more. [laughter]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3921.0,3928.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So let's, um, let's talk about, um, the Newark Community Union Project. Uh NCUP [spells out letters] was there a way you pronounced that? Uh—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3928.0,3940.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: What?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3940.0,3940.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: NCUP [pronounces \"N\" as in the letter and then \"cup\" as in the object].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3940.0,3940.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: NCUP [echoes Mark's pronunciation], yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3940.0,3944.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: And what is that? And how did you get involved with that after Queens College and—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3944.0,3951.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Well being part of SDS [Students for a Democratic Society], uh, I knew of Tom Hayden. Uh, I knew of the project that was nearby. I had two choices of what to do after school. One was to go there. And the other was to go down south to the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, uh, sponsored by a guy named Benee Luchon, who I think was in, somewhere in New Orleans, in that area. Uh, and I opted to please the people in my life and be nearby. So I decided on, on Newark, or at least to check it out. So on a summer's day after graduation, uh, Howie Epstein, Ron Pollack and I —not sure how we got there, whose car it was, whatever— we, we visited on a sunny Saturday morning and, uh, went into, uh, one of the co-op living areas, um, and, um, and chatted. And, and, uh, Howie [Epstein] and I decided it was the thing to do, and we would come back the following week with our stuff and occupy whatever space they gave us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=3951.0,4029.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Um, and it was basically because A. it was community organizing and it was in an area that people would always say, \"Why don't you clean up your own backyard?\" Well, this is my own backyard. Uh, it was at a point in Newark's history when urban renewal had, uh, seriously stressed out the poor population to breaking points. Uh, and, um, to me, it was just as big a civil rights issue as voting. Uh, and, you know, basically the poor people in those places were so alienated they rarely did vote. So, uh, and, you know, as I said, it gave me the option of being nearby. So I had a car, I could go visit everybody on weekends. Um, that was my choice. That's how I made that choice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4029.0,4085.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: What were the demographics of the community that you were helping to organize?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4085.0,4090.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Well, it was a hundred percent Black and it was also, um, uh, you know, a lot of people who had come up from the South in recent years, maybe not so many generations ago, who opted for something a lot less challenging than, uh, you know, the inner city ghettos of New York. And it was just our core wood-frame houses, two story houses on blocks, where there were no play streets and, uh, not enough stoplights for the kids and whatever. Um, and you know, again, not, not enough representation. It was, uh, a corrupt city government. We, uh, worked against it and eventually had the, the mayor sent up for 11 years. Yay. Uh, and, uh, uh, yeah, it was basically, it was basically, you know, uh, lower class, poor, Black mostly recent Southern immigrants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4090.0,4159.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Ah, I forget some of my timing. Was this before or after the Newark Rebellion?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4159.0,4164.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Before. I got there in, um, in '65. Uh, and at some point, I guess my visits home, uh, uh, had consequences. [laughs] I became a father, um, and moved my, uh, wife and daughter into a place, uh, right in the midst of the Newark Insurrection. I could hear people outside my window trying on suits. And, uh, um, yeah, so, uh, we were, um –interesting– uh, a year of not, not so much a year later –this is something that I would love people to research and verify– CBS had a show. It was a news show. It was on at 6 o'clock at night. And this happened to happen on Good Friday of, um, '67. Uh, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. '67? Uh, I guess. OK. And so I think the, the, the Newark Riot [ [Ed. note: Gatti would like to put on record that he prefers the term \"Newark Insurrection\" for political reasons] was not, I had to be 19– yeah, that was, hold on, hold on –68. I'm sorry. This was–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4164.0,4252.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: Annie, Annie's looking it up. I can tell–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4252.0,4254.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: [crosstalk] I think it was Good Friday of '68 that this show happened because I was, you know, my daughter was born in '67 in January. The riot [Ed. note: Gatti also prefers the wording \"rioting\" to \"riot\" for political reasons] happened during the summer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4254.0,4268.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: It looks like, according to Wikipedia, it was in July of '67 that the–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4268.0,4272.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Right. Right. That's the, that, that was when the insurrection occurred. And, uh, and so in '68 I was, uh, uh, I had to go into Queens for something on, uh, oh, I know what it was. I had dropped off my wife and infant daughter with her mother. And then I was, um, I had to go back to Newark for something. And then as I was coming back by car, I had, uh, this news program on and it featured, uh, three very interesting people. One was this guy named Tough, Tough Tony [Anthony Imperiale], um, something or other. He was, uh, uh, uh, you know, wannabe mobster from the North Ward, um, who, uh, was this big fat guy who, uh, you know, you know, claimed to be ready to go into the Black neighborhoods and shoot them up and whatever. He was a very dangerous guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4272.0,4332.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Apparently he was so dangerous that Richard Nixon deputized him. Gave him a marshal's badge or whatever. And another guy was, uh, this left, right wing– um, uh, uh, uh, what do you call?– a fire chief named Kenny last name, Kenny. And then the third person was LeRoi Jones. OK. And I'm thinking, \"What's gonna, this is gonna be about?\" LeRoi Jones, later to become Amiri Baraka, had been picked up during an insurrection, beaten up. They found a rifle in the back seat of his car or something. So he was looking at some time. OK. And they were gonna give him it because they didn't like his Black ass. He was a real, uh, separationist when it came to, uh, groups like mine. You know, he doesn't want to know anything about anything with white people in it. Right. So anyway, uh, LeRoi Jones's on the show and basically he, um, he subscribes to a theory that the Newark people, NCUP, the SDS people were the causes of the riot. OK. And, uh, he just, you know, threw us under the bus and then of course didn't do any jail time. Um, so that really put us into a spin. Nothing came of it. Uh, I guess it was just justification for these right wing people. Uh, Tough Tony, Tough Tony. I don't know. Can't remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4332.0,4431.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So I wanted to comment just one thing, which is that, um, uh, one of the reasons why Art and I had gotten in touch recently was that he noted that, um, the finding aid that we had for the Art Gatti papers, and when it talked about Newark, um, used the phrase \"a race riot\", and he said, \"Uh, you know, we didn't consider it a race riot, we considered it a community insurrection.\" And so, um, yeah, just, just highlight that, uh, view of, of events and how, unfortunately it's very common to hear that phrase \"race riots\" still.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4431.0,4463.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah. This begin, began with a rumor that some guy under police, uh, arrest had been killed in captivity. And people surrounded the, um, the police station. And one thing led to another. And then it became just, you know, genuine riot because, you know, a lot of people have had it up to there [raises hand over his head]. It was a hot summer, nobody had air conditioning, you know. They were just acting out at some point. So, uh, you know, an insurrection turned into a conflagration, what can I say? But, you know, it became worse when the National Guard came in. Um, and you know, they went around in their, in their trucks, shooting at the spires at the top of these old wooden houses for, you know, for target practice occasionally putting a few bullets through store, store windows. Um, uh, whatever, I mean, it was scary. Uh, of course it was over by then. Um–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4463.0,4526.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: It was over by the time the guardsman–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4526.0,4529.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4529.0,4529.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: –came in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4529.0,4530.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Yeah, pretty much so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4530.0,4532.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: And I know, you know, after Mississippi Freedom Summer, and, um, there was a big debate, uh, as I understand it in the Civil Rights Movement about, uh, you know, what is the right role of white people, basically, who want to fight against racism or fight against injustice in general? Um, I'm just curious about, you know, what the philosophy of NCUP [Newark Community Union Project] was and, and what it was like to work, uh, organizing, uh, as a white person kind of in a predominantly Black community?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4532.0,4561.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Well, you know, basically you're talking about leaders in the Civil Rights Movement, who, who had those questions to throw out, and I think they, they were valid. Uh, I remember hearing people refer to Tom Hayden as a \"great white father\", you know. Uh, you know, Tom [Hayden] kind of left NCUP in the middle of the time that I was there to take on the war. Um, he went, you know, when he went to North Vietnam, that first time when he came back, he met with us in the kitchen and said, \"You know, I got to get involved in this. The Soviets have put intermediate range ballistic missiles in Hanoi. And they're not telling you about this. This could really escalate.\" And that was why he told us he was leaving. And I, as far as I know, nobody's ever brought that up about the ballistic missiles. But in any case, uh, yeah, Tom was the \"great white father\" and, and Amiri Baraka or LeRoi Jones had his own group– a more like a Back-to-Africa group, I think– but they were all very suspicious of white people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4561.0,4629.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Uh, the people in our community, we're just grateful that somebody was putting \"A\" together with \"B\" because when you're poor and you are on one block, you don't know this guy on the other block who together, you could form some kind of coalition and get things done. So, you know, people with, uh, with the leisure to go around and, and find these people were valuable. That's what we were. We, organizers, any kind of community organizer's best goal is to organize himself out of a job, just to find people to do the work. And so we had wonderful people, uh, who came along and took over. So if anybody had, at that time come into the group and said, \"Oh, let's see all your big deal white leaders.\" There'd be a whole cadre of Black leaders would say, \"No, we don't have any white leaders. Everybody's part of this.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4629.0,4679.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: And this one does this. And this one does that. We had labor organizers. We had, uh, you know, uh, all sorts of people who had backgrounds and, uh, in dealing with each other. And could, you know, at one point I found a woman who was, um, totally apolitical who got involved with our group. And eventually, uh, I convinced her to run for Congress on the, uh, uh, Mississippi Freedom Democratic party ticket from Newark. Uh, so some people, you know, out of nowhere became politicized and others had already been political. They just needed to have, have community. And we were able to find a way to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4679.0,4727.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: How did you, uh, have like a salary? Um–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4727.0,4731.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: [shakes head] No–.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4731.0,4731.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: –did you have to do fundraising? Or–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4731.0,4733.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: No [draws out \"No\"] I mean, I didn't get any support from anyone at home or whatever. Whatever there was to eat, we ate. Lotsa times we ate, uh, not lots, but I mean, a couple of times, maybe a month or two or three times a month, we would eat in people's homes. I got to learn to be a good Soul food chef that way. And later on use those skills in, in restaurants. But, um, we, uh, you know, I, I, at one point Tom, while he was still with us said, you know, \"Hey, he's doing a lot of fundraising.\" Uh, he came back and he said, \"We've got a $10,000 grant from Gene Autry.\" Gene was a Texas Ranger [professional baseball franchise] owner at the time, but he was also everybody's favorite singing cowboy, I guess. And, uh, and so we, uh, graduated from bologna sandwiches on white to bologna sandwiches with mayo on white. [laughter]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4733.0,4796.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Did you have a followup question, Mark?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4796.0,4798.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: No, I, I, well, I guess maybe, uh, to pull some of it together. I forget what, what year it was, I guess that, uh, 2007, the John Lewis year. We had the commemoration, uh, at the college where, uh, Muyskens's [Queens College President James Musykens] dedicated commencement to the activists of '68. Uh, I was, I was '63, '64, you know, that, that era and invited us to be present. What, what did it feel like being there, uh, and seeing other people you knew who were not older, seeing the students, et cetera, et cetera? You know, how did it feel being honored in that kind of way back at Queens College, where we were not particularly honored when we were there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4798.0,4854.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Prophets without honor in their own land. Uh, yeah, I felt well, first of all, I felt wet [laughter].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4854.0,4860.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: [laughs] Rained the whole time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4860.0,4863.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: The whole time. Uh, I was also, uh, you know, very, uh, I felt good about being with the guys who had started, uh, all of these activities at Queens years before I got there. Wenger [Michael Wenger]. And those guys who were into, into, uh, you know, Jamaica who were, uh, in Virginia, who had been aware and woke before I was. Uh, so it was good to be among them. I felt a little bit honored by that. Um, I was happy to see my buddy Bob Roth there, who, you know, he and I are the last of the poetic stalwarts of the West Village. He, he, you know, under all sorts of travails, puts out a literary magazine [\"And Then\"] every year. And so I've been supporting him on that, contributing work to it, et cetera. And so, you know, there were, and he reminded me of things that we did together aside from poetry. So it was interesting to have reminders and, uh, you know, and some of those people who were the physical reminders of my past, because a lot of things happened, you know. Uh, there were drugs, there were families, there were businesses, you know, business things, they were publishing things. And so, uh, it was good to get that feeling of where we were and how we're still are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4863.0,4957.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: So I guess I can't resist asking you one more question, which is just to say that, you know, we're doing this interview during a pandemic, um, during a crazy time where an election just happened, which is still [pause] find out the outcome of that in a way, I mean, um, and you know, and where a lot of reactionary and fascist things seem to be happening, but then we also had the biggest protest, broadest protest movement in American history, potentially after the murder of George Floyd. I'm just curious to ask you what you think of what's going on in the world right now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4957.0,4992.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: I thought you had a little time left. I mean, what.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4992.0,4994.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: [laughs] I don't know, I know it's kind of a–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4994.0,4994.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mark Levy: In 30 words or less–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4994.0,4994.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: –a big question, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=4994.0,5000.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: Really, uh, well, one of the things that I, I remember quoting a while back was Malcolm X after the assassination of JFK said \"The chicken's coming home to roost.\" Um, but anyway, uh, uh, you know, I, I think that this has been shaping up for a long time. I think part of it is, uh, because for several decades, uh, the Republican, um, effort to belittle and, and, uh, make minimal the education of our citizens has paid off in developing a nation of sheep who need to be told what to think and what to believe and who to listen to and who not to listen to. And so people don't have any more, uh, consciousness than they ever did. Um, so, you know, I'm aware of a very hopeful, uh, growth of consciousness on one side of the aisle. And I'm very scared about the, um, uh, uh, lockstep fascist, uh, responses of the other side.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=5000.0,5074.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art Gatti: So, uh, yeah, I, before I thought about it much, I, I volunteered about a week ago with SNCC [Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee] in Georgia. By the way, when we came back from Mississippi that was when we stopped at the SNCC headquarters in Atlanta, just for just a few hours. And unfortunately the headquarters were on Lynch Street. And anyway, we, uh, I contacted them and said, you know, \"All you guys are ready to do your online stuff, uh, to win the two Senate seats here in Georgia, but you're leaving out a big population.\" I said, \"They're probably rest homes all over the area where people don't use any kind of cyber presence and would, you know, maybe welcome an old person coming in and talking to them.\" And then I realized \"eh, who's coming through rest homes anymore?\" You don't visit them during the COVID so, so much from my attempt. Uh, but yeah, uh, you know, I think in some respects, the, the person to person aspect of organizing has been lost. Uh, and, um, I'm, I'm thinking that's possibly why a lot of these poor lost souls are going to their deathbeds thinking that there's no such thing as COVID, you know, because nobody's really talking to them and, and, you know, speaking truth. [shrugs] Truth that's lost.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=5074.0,5169.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504/transcript/36046/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Thank you. It seems like a good place to end it. Um, I'm going to hit stop on recording, and then we can just kind of talk informally for a sec to, to wrap up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/71849/file/155504#t=5169.0,5178.96"}]}]}]}