{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/q52f766x3b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Joseph Scelsa Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 1: \u003c/strong\u003eJoseph Scelsa explains how Queens College became the first college in the country with an Italian American minor.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Joseph Scelsa describes the struggle that led to the establishment of the Calandra Institute, the designation of Italian Americans as a minority deserving of affirmative action within CUNY, and his own appointment as head of the Institute.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 3: \u003c/strong\u003eJoseph Scelsa summarizes his contributions in building the Calandra Institute into a major research institution.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eCUNY’s John D. Calandra Italian American Institute is the first research organization of its kind devoted to documenting the Italian American experience. In this interview, Dr. Joseph Scelsa discusses the issues and events that led to the formation of the organization (previously known simply as the Italian American Institute) and to the establishment of Italian Americans as a protected class within CUNY. These issues include several lawsuits and complaints filed with the U.S. Department of Labor.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAfter serving Queens College in various positions, including dean and Vice President of Institutional Development, Scelsa retired in 2008 and devoted his efforts full-time to the administration of the Italian American Museum, located in the heart of New York’s Little Italy, where this interview took place.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eInterview with Dr. Joseph Scelsa Presentation\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eGeorgios Gioulis presented this slide show after completing the interview.\u003c/p\u003e (supplement)","\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Portrait photograph of Joseph Scelsa, circa 2013. Photo by Buck Ennis.\u003c/p\u003e (supplement)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Collected as part of the Queens College Spring 2013 History 392W Oral History Seminar taught by Prof. Bobby Wintermute, for the college's 75th Anniversary Oral History Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1970s - 2013 (temporal)","Flushing, NY; Queens College; Manhattan, NY; Little Italy; Ellis Island (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2013-04-15 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Joseph Scelsa (Interviewee)","Georgios Gioulis (Interviewer)","Buck Ennis (Photographer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio","Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/41010"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 1: \u003c/strong\u003eJoseph\u0026nbsp;Scelsa\u0026nbsp;explains how Queens College became the first college in the country with an\u0026nbsp;Italian American minor.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Joseph Scelsa describes the struggle that led to the establishment of the Calandra Institute, the designation of Italian Americans as a minority deserving of affirmative action within CUNY, and his own appointment as head of the Institute.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 3: \u003c/strong\u003eJoseph Scelsa summarizes his contributions in building the Calandra Institute into a major research institution.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eCUNY\u0026rsquo;s John D. Calandra Italian American Institute is the first research organization of its kind devoted to documenting the Italian American experience. In this interview, Dr. Joseph Scelsa\u0026nbsp;discusses the issues and events that led to the formation of the organization (previously known simply as the Italian American Institute) and to the establishment of Italian Americans as a protected class within CUNY. These issues include several lawsuits and complaints filed with the U.S. Department of Labor.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAfter serving Queens College in various positions, including dean and Vice President of Institutional Development, Scelsa retired in 2008 and devoted his efforts full-time to the administration of the Italian American Museum, located in the heart of New York\u0026rsquo;s Little Italy, where this interview took place.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eInterview with Dr. Joseph Scelsa Presentation\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eGeorgios Gioulis presented this slide show after completing the interview.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Portrait photograph of Joseph Scelsa, circa 2013. Photo by Buck Ennis.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA\u0026nbsp;Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/485/small/Screenshot_%2830%29.png?1618581742","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111485","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 5 - 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Today I am interviewing Dr. Scelsa at the Italian American Museum in New York City. April 15, 2013. Let’s get started. OK, I just want to start off, where are you from, where did you grow up?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2.0,27.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I was born and raised in the Bronx, in the Pelham Parkway section. Actually I was born on Bathgate Avenue in the Bronx and then we moved to Pelham Parkway. Bathgate Avenue is in the Little Italy section of the Bronx.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=27.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: And what did you do at Queens College?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=38.0,41.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, I’ve been at…I had two stints at Queens College. In 1979 I was hired by the Italian American Institute to foster higher education as their first Director of Counseling. Which was housed at Queens College, but wasn’t part of Queens College. So I was there from 1979 to 1981. But I was on a grant. And I came back to the university back in 1984. But at that time I was hired to direct the Italian American Institute through the central administration. And we did not become part of Queens College until 1994. Prior to that it was under the Office of Student Affairs and Special Programs at the central office. Then 1994 became part of Queens College.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=41.0,94.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Now, your specialty is Italian American Studies. How did you initially get involved with that?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=94.0,100.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, it was back in the 1970s that I was a student activist at the time. I was elected to be Vice Chairperson for Legislative Affairs and before that Vice Chairperson for Graduate Affairs at the university’s Student Senate while I was doing my master’s program, my first one – and my second one. And while I was in those positions, large numbers of Italian Americans started coming into the university. Before that time there weren’t that many. As of open admissions in the early part of the ’70s, Italian American students started coming to the colleges. Queens College by 1975 probably had about 25,000 Italian American students. [Editor’s note: The number of Italian American students at the college in this time period is unverifiable. In 1973, total student enrollment at Queens College peaked at 31,413.] They had needs and concerns; they came to me as an ombudsman for them as the elected graduate leader. And I started working with various different legislatures and faculty members to try and start programs that would be encouraged so that they would have, umm, learn more about their own background, their own heritage. Not only courses in Italian, but courses in the Italian American experience. And that’s how I got started. My particular specialty at the time, besides the social studies, was also the fact that I had taken a second degree in counseling, so I was able to combine both the teaching aspect with the sociology and the anthropology, and the history with the social studies. But also working with the students who were first-generation college attendees. And with that goes a host of different problems. Each one of them, when I say each one of them, each group being a first attendee has different types of issues. Some are more strong, stronger in some areas than the others. And that’s every group, every different group has their own need in this area, but some have it more in terms of their families and some don’t. So it’s interesting. And we were there, basically, I was there to try and assist the students. And along the way I developed courses – besides counseling students – courses in Italian American studies.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=100.0,242.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Are you yourself a first-generation Italian American?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=242.0,245.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, you know, you might consider me at this point because I am an Italian citizen. But, but, but it was really my great-grandfather and grandfather that came to America back in 1900. Exactly 1900. I became an Italian citizen through them, but later on. So I guess in some ways, I guess I am first-generation [laughs] because of the dual citizenship.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=245.0,268.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: And um, what was your family’s attitude towards education?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=268.0,275.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, you know I came from a middle-class family and they were more, “do anything.” They supported me in anything I wanted to do. And unfortunately, not having been college attendees themselves, they didn’t know the routes to take. As much education as you want, do it. They were very supportive of education.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=275.0,295.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Where did you study? [Phone rings, recording paused.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=295.0,304.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: You’re very nice.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=304.0,305.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: You told me off-tape, but where did you study?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=305.0,312.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, my…as an undergraduate I studied at the Long Island University Brooklyn campus and got my BA in Political Science. Um, then I went to, then I got my first master’s degree and my second master degrees from Lehman College in the Bronx. The first one was in social studies education; the second was in guidance and counseling. And then I went on from there to Teacher’s College, Columbia University, where I got a master’s in sociology and education, and then a doctorate of education in sociology and education.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=312.0,345.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: OK, great. And umm, from your questionnaire I saw that you wrote that you spent most of your time being an administrator, but did you teach classes as well?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=345.0,354.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Yeah I did actually. I mean besides being an administrator, I was also teaching part-time. You can do both. I mean like one course a semester. That’s where I developed the Italian American studies. Prior to coming, prior to coming to the City University, I had actually taught graduate courses in counseling also at Lehman College. So I taught graduate courses in counseling – not courses that I developed, but courses for group counseling and courses of that nature in the master’s program. And then when I went to the University, then I started developing courses in Italian American studies – a generic overview course and also some specialization in civil rights and Italian Americans.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=354.0,400.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: That’s actually one of the questions I was going to ask. How do you go about framing a study for Italian American studies? Like what are the criteria that were in place then?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=400.0,414.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, I don’t know if you know it or not, but Italian American studies as a field started at Queens College. Richie Gambino, who was the first professor. He’s not, there’s not...there are no professors in Italian American – well, there is now, but there were no professors then at that time in Italian American studies. He is a philosopher. What he was doing was philosophy. And he developed the whole program at Queens College back in the late ’70s for Italian American studies. So, you know, he combined a number of different disciplines to do that. Anthropology, sociology, history, philosophy and you know. And also language. Because there was a component of the program that had a language requirement as well. So it was actually the first program of its kind to my knowledge in the United States of America. And it started at Queens College.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=414.0,465.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Great. Was there support for scholars in that field? Were there scholarships?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=465.0,472.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: No. Just the opposite. There was no support whatsoever for scholarship in that area. You know, first of all, it’s a field. It’s not a discipline. And academia doesn’t really favor fields as much as it does disciplines. In the hard disciplines they place more. In the hard disciplines they usually like English, history. Disciplines like that are more favored. So there wasn’t a lot. So what you did was you belonged to societies instead. Organizations like the American Italian Historical Association, which has changed their name and has now become the Italian American Studies Association. It’s a process, this change. It’s almost 30 years old now and I belong to that where you meet other similarly minded professionals, academics. Not only on the college level but also on the secondary level as well. And just the general public who are interested in the study and the understanding of the Italian experience in America. And the people who came.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=472.0,537.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: How would you compare the field versus some of the larger identity studies such as women’s studies? African American?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=537.0,546.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, Italian American studies is much smaller than those fields. It’s a subset actually. Because within the field of women’s studies, Italian American women have to be looked at as well as a separate area of interest. And as I’ve said before, each ethnic group has their own variables. You know, Italian American women, they had theirs. And they also have to be looked at in the context of the time you are studying them as well. Studying Italian American women at the turn of the 20th century and studying them at the turn of the 21st century is a whole different ballgame. You know, in the 20th century you are very traditional in terms of not only the family structure, but the place of the woman in society. Italian American women coming into the 21st century were affected by the larger society as well, so it’s a whole different thing. So it is a subset of those as well. And even African American studies is a subset too. Because Italian Americans as other ethnic groups were not considered to be a hundred percent white. Greek Americans were not considered to be a hundred percent white either, by the larger society. As you probably know, Sicily, Calabria, this whole area was part of Magna Grecia. You probably know that, but most people don’t. You know, 2,000 years ago. So there’s a lot of not only Greek influence, but Greeks who live there. There were also the Saracens who lived there. The Carthaginians who lived there. Arabs who lived there. I mean, so many different groups came there, so we’re mixed blood. So there are some parallels and similarities also with the Italian experience and the African American experience. Again, not exactly the same – and that should be stressed – because there’s nobody saying we are the same. But there are some similarities and differences that need to be looked at.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=546.0,669.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: How did you become a dean at Queens College, of the Calandra Institute?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=669.0,676.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: That’s, that’s a story. The Calandra Institute was born out of the 1970s, in that students who wanted to see an institute that would be there for them. That would not only be there for counseling , but also for Italian American and Italian studies. In 1984-1985 we became part of the City University of New York. It was no longer a grant, but a program. And part of the mission of the Institute was to look at the place of the Italian American in the university – not only as students, but also as faculty and administration. And the numbers of positions that existed. Here, you have an emerging ethnic group that is coming to the forefront in terms of education. Previous generations hadn’t taken advantage of education in the way they did in the 1970s and the 1980s. And they were getting more and more advanced degrees, yet they weren’t getting positions. So part of what the Calandra Institute was doing, it was its mission to do, was to look at that role. Umm, and to present that to the larger administration to assist them in finding out what’s needed and how to address it. That information was presented to the university in 1989. The university turned a deaf ear. And there was no word back. I, at that time, was not a faculty member. I was an administrator. And some of the faculty members had taken out a class action complaint with the United States Department of Labor. I signed on to that complaint. That complaint was then investigated by the United States Department of Labor as to the commitments that the university had made that they hadn’t fulfilled. Namely affirmative action,  because Italian Americans are an affirmative action category at the City University of New York. In 1992, the Labor Department was trying to investigate and they weren’t getting the information forthcoming from the central administration or the campuses. They just wouldn’t give it to them. They didn’t get it. They got angry. I guess they got angry, because they filed 21 class actions against the City University, because there was 21 campuses at that time. They saw me as the sparkplug who had started this and the Calandra Institute – which it had become by name, the Italian American Institute became the Calandra Institute, which is now at Queens College – as the organization that was spearheading all of this. And what we did is, and what happened was they tried to disband the Institute. Get me out of my role as director and send the members of the Institute to the four corners of the university. And put the Institute itself on Staten Island, far away from the mainstream where it is today – which is the center of Manhattan. Which it was and is in the center of Manhattan. But belongs to Queens College. I filed a lawsuit. And, as a result of that lawsuit, I received a temporary restraining order and I received a preliminary injunction which the judge [Constance Baker Motley] said – and you can look it up if you want, Scelsa vs. CUNY; umm, I can send you the link to [https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1343301.html] – that there was discrimination. She told the courts that they had to come up with a plan to address it, and to keep me in place while they were doing it. Umm, they negotiated for two years. And in January of 1994 we came up with a settlement compromise, whereby the Institute became a university institute instead of a program. An academic institute. Umm, affirmative action for Italian Americans was continued on paper. All of the Labor Department complaints – all 40 of them – were to be arbitrated. And then we got a distinguished professor of Italian American studies, the first one in the country. Pretty good deal. Umm, I had to go back to courtin1999 to enforce the arbitrations that they were supposed to do, because they didn’t do them. I won that in court again. They did the arbitrations. As a result of the arbitration settlement I was made dean and eventually made professor. It’s out of the struggle.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=676.0,957.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Do you feel that since then that Italian Americans are…more represented as umm…just the Institute in general, do you feel it’s better represented? Do you feel that the gains have been...?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=957.0,976.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I feel that the Institute does an excellent job when it comes to academic and cultural programs. I think that the University has not maintained its commitment and has not increased the numbers. Because I know for a fact it hasn’t. If anything, in many cases they’ve gone down. But the Institute exists. It’s still there. And they do good work in academic and cultural areas. They don’t do as much as I did. Much less in the area of advocacy. So it’s a different regime altogether, but it does exist. And at least it’s there.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=976.0,1016.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: And, what is it like being an administrator of an institute?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1016.0,1023.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Oh, it’s all-encompassing because everybody expects everything from you and you know, from the Gittleson secretary [a clerical title within CUNY] to the president of the college and everybody in between. And the community as well. Everybody comes to you with every possible need that they have. Now you may have a vision about what you want to do and you may try to stick to it, but there are a lot of other people that have other needs and concerns. So you really have to do just about everything. Well, you don’t have to. But if you want to try to satisfy the people, you have to try to listen to what they want and what they need and try to address it. So it’s very, very inclusive. There are so many different aspects to it. Students, faculty and community. Everything.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1023.0,1072.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Were you in charge of supervising a staff?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1072.0,1076.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: When I, I started with me in 1985, when I came back, when we came under the university. And hired, by the time I left we had 24 full-time people.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1076.0,1087.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: OK, what were the relationships with…\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1087.0,1091.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I became a vice president of the college after that. [Editor’s note: Joseph Scelsa served as vice president of Queens College Outreach and Cultural Affairs, Institutional Development Office, from 2000 until retiring in June 2008.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1091.0,1100.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: OK, and how were the relationships within your department?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1100.0,1102.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, you really want to hear this? Heh, is this going to go into that? I’m not sure. Look…I’m going to say, without giving up phrases. From 1988 through 1999 almost – well, ’94 for sure and then it got a little better after that – I…as an administrator you can recommend, but you cannot promote somebody. You can recommend them for promotion. No promotions were given. None that I recommended was given. I believe as a result of that there were a lot of disgruntled people at the Institute who saw me who was fighting the system to increase the numbers as a whole, and not helping the individuals who were at the Institute. I had laid down and died. If I had just done what – looked, turned a blind eye to the problem – maybe some of these people would have gotten a promotion. But I wasn’t willing to do it. So they got angry and I ended up having my own lawsuits against me from some of those people. And, they were settled eventually, but that’s what happened. So, in some ways, I feel that the administration on top of me did not allow me to reward people who were doing good work, and also to reprimand people who weren’t. As a result of it there was a lot of strife within the Institute itself. Umm, that strife was caused on purpose, so that I would have a hard time.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1102.0,1209.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: I see. Now…\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1209.0,1211.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: That’s my opinion.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1211.0,1213.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Now, I noticed on the questionnaire you filled out, some of the friends you had at Queens College were from different departments. How was, what was the interaction like between departments?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1213.0,1229.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, let me see what I’m going to say there. Umm, there wasn’t a tremendous amount of interaction. First of all, the Institute is in Manhattan. Umm, and it was always seen as a university-wide institute. That’s what institutes are at the City University of New York. Although they have a campus base – the main campus – they’re supposed to be universal for the entire system. That’s one of the reasons why we wanted to be in Manhattan, in the center of the city. And, literally at 43rd Street, you’re in the center of the city. So there wasn’t a tremendous amount of interaction with the campuses, with the departments. More interaction took place with it after 19- , the middle 1990s when we came to Queens College. And we hired the distinguished professor of Italian American studies who was a historian. So we worked well with him and the history department at that time.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1229.0,1288.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Who was the…?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1288.0,1289.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Philip Cannistraro. He’s no longer there. He’s passed away, unfortunately. Umm, Philip Cannistraro. We also had a good relationship with the language department, too. Professor Hermann Haller. You know, he was a great guy. And also former Queens College professor Peter Carravetta, who is now at Stony Brook as distinguished professor there. So you know, yeah, so things got better with me in terms with the Institute and with my relationship with those departments. And Italian, of course, is important. And history was important because there were two areas that really speak to what the Institute was all about. So that went well. I had a lot of interaction with the administration because, being first a director and later becoming dean in 1999, you know I sat with the other deans. So then we had, then I was fully integrated into the rest of the college life. [Text message received, recording paused.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1289.0,1356.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: You first arrived at Queens College in 1994. Can you describe what the campus was like then?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1356.0,1366.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, the campus was nowhere near as beautiful as today. I can tell you the physical plant is so much better. And, it really started getting better in 2000 when Allen Sessoms, President Sessoms, left and Interim President Russell Hotzler came in. Things started to change. And of course under President [James] Muyskens – I have to give him a lot of credit – the campus looks terrific. You know, the biggest thing that I saw when I got there from the physical perspective was that when you walked up to the campus, you had all these chain-link fences all around the campus. The perimeter. I mean it looked like a schoolyard, but even worse, maybe. Something even more of an institutional look. Umm, and I think that’s important. I think the environment that you have on a campus really makes you feel like you’re in, it’s a different type of a place. It’s supposed to, it’s supposed to have the feeling of a place of not only knowledge, but of comfort, of beauty. Because it all fits into each other. I think it’s much more in that case. Powdermaker was redone. It was a disaster. Came online, Powdermaker Hall. So the campus has changed tremendously in terms of its physical plants since then. Umm, and you know I can’t speak for the last few years because I haven’t been there. My impression is that it’s continued to improve.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1366.0,1456.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: And during your time at Queens, were you living near the school or were you commuting?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1456.0,1461.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: No, I live in Westchester County. But, it’s a half-hour drive.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1461.0,1468.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: OK. And what was the diversity of the student population like when you were at Queens?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1468.0,1476.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Which time?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1476.0,1477.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: In, you know, ’94?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1477.0,1482.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, the student population at Queens has changed. I mean in 1975, I said it was about 25 percent Italian American. That’s not the case anymore today. Although I think, over the last few years – only because of the economics – there is probably more Italian Americans applying than before. Nowhere near the 25 percent. But it’s strictly from an economic basis. Umm, they would go to the publics instead of the privates because Queens, as you know, is an excellent institution, an excellent college. Umm, so I think there’s more coming in now than actually did five years ago. And you’re getting the best quality students too. Not just Italian Americans. All the students. You know the standards have been raised. But the diversity that you see now on the campus doesn’t really mirror the city of New York. But it does in some way mirror Queens. So I think that’s a…freaking phone!\n[Phone rings, recording paused.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1482.0,1552.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Can you describe some of the changes that occurred during your time at Queens from ’94 to 2008?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1552.0,1561.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, the physical change that I described. The plant was really beautified. And you know a lot of the student services were really upgraded, I think, in terms of student services as well. And the whole area of student affairs has really been given a lot of attention. Prior to 1995, student affairs was, I believe, in Jefferson. Now they’re in their own building. And that’s of course thanks to a large donation too that was given for the rehabilitation of that – which was great. Umm, so that’s a big change, I think the student services have seen a major uplifting. I also think, I’ve also seen the change – even since 1995. I think the standards have been raised and the prestige that Queens enjoys – as well it should – in the larger academic community is well felt today. It’s one of the jewels of the crown. The crown being, of course, the City University of New York. And I don’t think anybody would deny that. Umm, it’s, you know, on a par with Hunter and certainly Brooklyn and Baruch. So like, you know, those are some of the jewels of the system. In terms of educating the next generation of teachers, we learn in order to serve. That’s the motto of the college. Alright. I think Queens has done an excellent job and continues to do an excellent job with that in preparing the next generation of teachers for the schools. And does a really, really excellent job with it. So I really, their Education Department, education preparation for their master’s programs, it’s the best in the city as far as I’m concerned.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1561.0,1681.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Great. And do you feel that your job changed during that period?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1681.0,1688.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, I went through a lot of changes. Bringing the Institute into Queens College and then going from a program to an institute, yes. It changed dramatically. I mean, I was involved with academic meetings – which I hadn’t been involved with before. And, becoming faculty and teaching courses at the faculty level. So my job, my job changed quite a bit. My position changed, my job changed. Umm, and you know after that I left in 2001 to become the Acting Vice President for Institutional Development at the college. And went from being dean to …and then my position changed even more.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1688.0,1733.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: OK. And what were some goals that you accomplished?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1733.0,1739.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: The biggest goal…in which capacity?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1739.0,1743.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Just during your time at, being with the university.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1743.0,1745.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, you know, going from being a nothing program to being, I think, the best-funded institute in the university isn’t too shabby.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1745.0,1762.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Right, those were major strides.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1762.0,1764.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I took a budget that was $125,000 when I came in, in ’95, and raised the budget to over $2,000,000 a year from the state. Not to mention grants. So I think that’s a major accomplishment. I went from being a one-horse operation – me – to being a major academic and research institution. Not only at CUNY at Queens, but for the whole country. No other. There is not another one that exists like it in the United States of America. It’s pretty huge.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1764.0,1802.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Excellent work.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1802.0,1803.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: It’s pretty huge. So I’m very proud of that. I’m proud of some other smaller things. Well, they’re not so small. When I became vice president at Queens College I took a liking to the Women and Work program – and they weren’t even on the campus. I found space for them on the campus. And I found a home for them. And as a result of it, also found a lot of jobs for their population after they finished the program. Now these are not women…a lot of them went on to college educations as well. But these are women that basically were displaced homemakers. Women that were abused in their families. And got basic skills so that they’d go on to the world of work with computer skills. And that’s what they got. A lot of those women – not all of them, but a good number of those women – actually have jobs now, and not only in private industry, but also at the City University. As secretaries and administrative assistants. Umm, and you know, I’m proud of that because they weren’t just Italian American, they were just all the people. I’m proud of that because you not only help them individually but help their families. Because when they were able to get employed and support their families, that’s a beautiful thing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1803.0,1890.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Excellent. You touched on this, but I wanted to ask: what were some of the challenges that you faced?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1890.0,1900.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: In what respect?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1900.0,1901.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Well, we just talked about some of the goals that you had, that you accomplished at Queens College. I just…\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1901.0,1912.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I suppose the most difficult part of this for me was, you know, there was no roadmap.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1912.0,1917.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1917.0,1918.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: So, I had to figure it all out myself – and with the help of others. I mean, I went to other people for advice and counsel. I wasn’t doing it alone. But there was no roadmap. And, I was one of the highest ranking administrators, not only at the college but in the whole university. So, you know, there was nobody for me to go to for advice.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1918.0,1943.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1943.0,1944.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: You know, so I had to figure a lot of things out on my own and seek out to make friends with others to get them to assist me in the process. Umm, that was challenging. It was exciting. And it was successful. So I’m pleased with that. Now the legacy that I see for myself, you know, is that, you know, the Calandra Institute exists and it still does excellent work in the areas that it does work in. And I’m proud of the other programs. I mean I was also in charge of sponsored research at the campus when I was Vice President for Institutional Development. And – Vice President of Institutional Development –  that was sponsored research. And we raised the bar in terms of the money. I mean, we were taking in over $9,000,000 a year in grants. So that was a good thing. The higher you get up on the food chain, the less you actually feel the work yourself because you’re managing so many people.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=1944.0,2017.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Right.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2017.0,2018.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: So it’s not that you feel the direct satisfaction, but the numbers have to speak for the success. The numbers were there. Now, of course the other big accomplishment that I had was why we are where we are sitting today. Out of the Calandra Institute and my vice presidency we gave birth to the Italian American Museum. And, the Italian American Museum is an educational corporation in the State of New York today. That has survived through a very difficult economic period and is poised to move forward again now. So, it’s another institution, another academic educational institution that I have been affiliated with and really spearheaded. And I’m real proud of the fact that I did that. I was able to get the college willingly to support the museum. We had an academic affiliation from 2001, I think it was, ’til 2008. When I retired the affiliation ended, but you know that helped a lot. You know, we had space there in 43rd Street where we did exhibits. We did programs and that was very helpful to give presence to the idea, umm, and move forward to the place in which we would come today to be in this space here at Grand and Mulberry Street, which is the heart of Little Italy.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2018.0,2110.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: What was it like making that transition from, you know, doing administration to now being the curator of the museum?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2110.0,2120.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I’m still doing administration only it’s not the same. I actually do more teaching here now than I was doing for a long time. I had 66 eighth grade students in here this morning – which was a beautiful thing but, they can drive you crazy. [Laughs] It’s not like teaching graduate courses where everybody sits there and wants, and knows and wants to listen. It’s a whole different experience. But, we run the gamut here, so I do everything. I was sweeping the floor before, you know. To giving lectures, to organizing exhibits, to running receptions. I do everything. I am hopeful that, you know, with this change in the economy that we’ll, that I’ll be able to hire more people. I know what I would like to do. I just, you just need a lot of money to do it. A lot of staff – and then you have to, have to hire the right staff to do it as well. But that’s the direction that I, that we need to go in. But I’m proud of the fact that the university supported it ’til 2008. They gave me, you know, we had a home to start with. And then I knew I was leaving, so I had to find a place and found a great place. A great location. I think it’s a great location ’cause this is where the Italian American community was when it started.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2120.0,2205.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: I know I caught you on a busy day. Regarding the location, do you care to talk a little bit about what’s going on today?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2205.0,2213.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: You mean today, today?\n\n[00:36:54\nGeorgios Gioulis: Today with the…\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2213.0,2215.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well, we’re in the process right now of trying to find a developer who will work with us, partner with us in order to build out the rest of the property. We own the three buildings. And I really don’t like, I don’t like, I don’t think the museum needs to be in the business of managing commercial property and residential property – which is what we’ve done for the last five years to survive. I don’t want to do that anymore. I want to just concentrate all of my energy – whatever I have left of it – on the museum and its development. In order to do that, I want to free myself up from the commercial side of this – the residential rental and the commercial space. We have some people that are interested in doing this. And ’cause there is...obviously it’s an economic advantage for them. They’re not going to do it for charity. But, that will then, if – and I say if – when we are successful doing that, will be a tremendous load off my shoulders, in terms of doing part of the job that I don’t really want to do that has to get done to pay the bills. ’Cause just running the museum is enough of a job. Not a job. It’s enough of a responsibility. Umm, you know, to make all this happen. And I’m getting closer and closer to that point. And at this point I’m very close and that’s the exciting part. I know me. And I know that, if I’m given the opportunity to do that, instead of filling my day up with all the other stuff that I had to do, I’ll fill my day up with more stuff that I want do. And, I’ll continue to develop exhibits, programs, lectures, seminars, and all that goes along with that. And the fund-raising too. Hire staff, so that all these things can happen, be put in place. So I’ve done it before, I mean I’ve been a manager. I’m not saying I’m the best manager, but I’ve been a manager so I know what to do with it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2215.0,2349.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: OK, very good. And, umm, before the interview I did a little research on you and I saw that you were the head of the Italian American Taskforce on Defamation. That you were the founder of that. Can you talk about that a little bit?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2349.0,2362.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Yeah well, you know, the Italian American Taskforce on Defamation really is an outgrowth of my wanting to deal with the negative effect of defamation and what the results of it are all about. When, when you defame somebody, you dehumanize them. They’re no longer considered in the same category as your next door neighbor or your friend. And, when you dehumanize somebody, de-human-ize them, you can then disregard them. I mean you’ve heard this time and time through history when we speak of – well not we – but when you’ve heard of, “We’re fighting enemies, we’ll call them by names.” During the Korean War, the North Koreans, they were called “gooks.” Umm, you know, in Vietnam the Viet Cong, they weren’t called the North Vietnamese [laughs], you know. Or the Nazis, you know. Once you put a label on somebody like that, they’re not human beings. They’re not Joe and Fred and Doug, you know. They’re somebody else. That they can be mistreated. So defamation can be very harmful in terms of the ultimate result that comes in terms of discrimination. So one leads to the other. Defamation leads to discrimination. It’s not innocent and it’s not something that you can just laugh off and say, “Oh what’s the big deal?” because it does have a detrimental effect because of the discrimination that follows.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2362.0,2467.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: And what methods do you use to try to prevent this?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2467.0,2472.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I think part of what I do here at the museum does that. There is a misconception or misunderstanding about who the Italian Americans are that came into the United States. And who we are today. You know, most of us, most Americans, especially once you get west of the Hudson, kind of start thinking of Italian Americans as Tony Soprano. Or, you know, a negative character. I want the rest of the country or at least people that I come in contact with – I can’t say everybody – but the people I come in contact with to know about the struggles and the achievements that Italians made to be at the place they are today, and know that we are 99.9 percent law-abiding citizens of the United States and given greatly to this country on many different fronts. And continue to today by our intelligence and by the sweat of our brow. So, that’s what I want to have known and I think that does a lot to fight defamation. The more people know about you, the more people know about what your contributions are, maybe they’ll be a little less likely to like, you know, put you into a category of being something less than human.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2472.0,2554.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Now, is there a distinction? If there is something that portrays a negative stereotype towards, a negative stereotype, but it’s considered high art – like an award-winning film like The Godfather? Is there a distinction there?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2554.0,2572.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I love The Godfather and I hate The Godfather. The Godfather was the first time that Italian Americans actually saw themselves on the big screen. And there was a lot of warmth in it too because, you know, in Godfather I and Godfather II, they didn’t kill anybody but themselves. They weren’t killing people on the street; they were killing each other – the Mafioso in the movie. So, it wasn’t so terrible. And that’s terrible to kill other people, of course, but I’m saying, it wasn’t like, you know, it didn’t get to the local person. It was really between gangs fighting with each other, not fighting with the people. So, that is art. The way it was done was very artistically done. And unfortunately though, that’s, there hasn’t been something done of its kind that really portrays the average Italian American who worked hard. Struggled. Got educated. And succeeded. And there’s a proliferation of the genre of the wise guy in the media. That is detrimental to us as a group, I feel. Umm, you know, we have a governor of New York State, Mario Cuomo, and then now his son Andrew. I’m waiting to see what happens when Andrew runs for president – ’cause I think he will – if there will be the mud thrown at him like that was thrown at his father. Undeserved. I mean I think both of them are tough administrators. But, they’re not organized crime people [laughs]. You know, that’s not who they are. But you know those comparisons. We’ll see if we’ve evolved long enough not to see that happen. So that, that, that’s what concerns me. But, you know, as we move on we’ll see.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2572.0,2703.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Now you’ve also founded and publish the newspaper America and Italia Weekly, as well as several other written works. Can you talk about some of those?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2703.0,2713.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Well I felt that there was a need also to understand contemporary Italy today. Umm, it’s not the Italy of my grandfather. It’s the Italy of today. And I didn’t think there are a lot of publications written in English that would be able to convey that. Most Italian Americans – 25 million of them in the United States – do not speak Italian. So how are you going to learn about what’s going on over there? So, that’s the only way you’re going to learn about what’s going on over there is if it’s written or produced in your own language – which is English. So that’s why I felt that was necessary. [Phone rings, text message]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2713.0,2752.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Now, throughout your career you’ve received some, several prestigious awards. Can you describe some of those?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2752.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: Yeah, a few of them. Like you know, the Ellis Island Medal of Honor. That was really exciting. When you think about Ellis Island and you think about your grandparents arriving there not knowing what’s going to happen to them, and you arrive there and there’s a red carpet. And you’re walking on that red carpet up to the main entrance hall, if you don’t have a tear in your eye or a chill down your back, you’re not human. I did. That was a great exper…that was great for me, getting the Ellis Island Medal of Honor. I’ve been also honored by the Italian government. I’ve been, received the rank of Cavaliere of the Order of Merit of the Republic of Italy for my work with the Italian American community. And that was also quite an honor. I’ve been honored by many organizations with their man of the year awards or outstanding achievement awards. The Coalition of Italian American Associations was one of them. So, you know, it’s not something that you seek out, but just something that happens as a natural consequence of what you do. That’s just...it’s nice to be recognized. It’s not that important to be recognized, but it’s nice to be recognized.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2760.0,2838.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Great. A lot of your professional work is involved with the Italian American community; what do you like to do during your free time?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2838.0,2846.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: I don’t have any free time, you know. And my wife will tell you that. You know, there is so much that needs to be done in this area, that I could do this 24/7. And, thank God for my wife. She shuts me down a little bit to do more other things. Like, on Saturday night we went to see, we went to some chamber music. And it was Armenian chamber music with some Rachmaninoff. So, you know, I like to go to the theater. We go to the Met quite often. We go to the ballet. That’s what I like to do during my free time. Go out to good dinners. Eat different types. Last night I ate Cajun food. I mean, I don’t only eat Italian. I mean I like all different types. I like good food from every different cuisine. It doesn’t have to all be Italian, that’s for sure. My father would have only wanted only Italian, but that’s not me.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2846.0,2911.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: OK, and that’s it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2911.0,2912.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nJoseph Scelsa: OK.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2912.0,2913.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486/transcript/29251/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nGeorgios Gioulis: Thank you, thank you for your time.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111486#t=2913.0,2885.74694"}]}]},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111487","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 5 of 5 - Dr._Scelsa_Power_Point.mp4"]},"duration":90.2883,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/487/small/Dr._Scelsa_Power_Point.mp4_1618595926.jpg?1618581530","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111487/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111487/content/5/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/487/original/Dr._Scelsa_Power_Point.mp4?1618581526","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":90.2883,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39876/file/111487","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]}]}