{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/n29p26qv1b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Roy Fox Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eRoy Fox has been the caretaker of Rufus King Manor since 1989 and has an encyclopedic knowledge of Rufus King. He is a passionate advocate for King as an overlooked founding father whose anti-slavery views and actions influenced many others. He talks about the museum's exhibits, visitors, visiting scholars, and Citizenship Day events. He talks about how he came to take the job after working for 30 years in radio. Also mentions a subway ride he took in 1989 with Charlie Redell, where they travelled on every line for a 66 hour trip, and which garnered media attention. \u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/42200"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2020-12-21 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Roy Fox (Interviewee)","Linda Ganjian (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview recorded as part of Linda Ganjian's Jamaica Flux project for Jamaica Center for Arts and Learning."]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1940s-2020 (temporal)","New York City and Jamaica, Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eRoy Fox has been the caretaker of Rufus King Manor since 1989 and has an encyclopedic knowledge of Rufus King. He is a passionate advocate for King as an overlooked founding father whose anti-slavery views and actions influenced many others. He talks about the museum's exhibits, visitors, visiting scholars, and Citizenship Day events. He talks about how he came to take the job after working for 30 years in radio. Also mentions a subway ride he took in 1989 with Charlie Redell, where they travelled on every line for a 66 hour trip, and which garnered media attention.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA\u0026nbsp;Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/120/334/small/fox-roy-aviary.png?1627571072","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Fox_Roy_12_21_2020_radioedit.mp3"]},"duration":6211.55265,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/120/334/small/fox-roy-aviary.png?1627571072","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/120/334/original/Fox_Roy_12_21_2020_radioedit.mp3?1627480236","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":6211.55265,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Today is December 21st, 2020. This is Linda Ganjian volunteering with the Queens Memory Project with Roy Fox. Please say and spell out your name.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=0.0,15.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, that's a toughie. Let's see, R O not I, Y. Only one X. You don't need two Xs that's such a waste, but there are two Fs as in Fantastic Fox,\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=15.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Two Fs. Okay. So is it F F O X?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=33.0,37.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, in my head, it is.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=37.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Oh, okay. [laughing]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=38.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: In what's laughingly referred to as my brain.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=40.0,44.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: What is your age?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=44.0,47.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Way back into the last century Frieda and the lovely Harold Fox had a child that they've been ashamed of ever since. 81 years.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=47.0,59.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: [Outside, on grounds of King Manor]. This was part of 122 acre farm. It went north.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=59.0,65.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. Rufus and Mary King had about 150 acres altogether, but the farm was 122. The building [pointing to King Manor] was built in three parts. The cottage here is the oldest. And that goes back to the 1750s—almost older than I am, but not by much. And then the far half of the big house was built in the 1780s. Rufus and Mary bought the property in 1804. They began building this half of the building and finished as it is in 1810, that's 210 years ago. And then they put on the one story. You can't go from the house into that building. You've got to come outside and go in. That's the summer kitchen and chimney at the far end, get the heat as far away as you can. The house finished as it is in 1810.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=65.0,125.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So what is happening here now?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=125.0,128.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: They're putting in a sidewalk, take away some of the greenery, and that's what they're doing. There's a new entrance to the park, which we don't need. You see the light. Right next to it down by the fence is a tree. Rufus King planted 13 oaks for the 13 original states. He did it the year the house was finished. That is 210 years old, that oak. And we've got one other. Hang on, the fellow that's walking over there, right there. That tree is also 210. Rufus, as I said, planted 13. We've lost three or four of them in the time I've been here, which is 31 years ago. There was a tree just north of this that was also one of the originals. And it's funny when they tore it down, the wood was in perfect shape and there was this big hole near the bottom. And that's why they had to tear the tree down. I said to the supervisor, it's a perfectly good tree. How does this happen? I'm a city kid. I'm learning about [tree] stuff all the time. It comes with living in King Park. He said that when the roots get this big, they pull the tree apart.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=128.0,209.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Oh, interesting.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=209.0,212.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: And he said that he has been here when they chopped down two of the others and it was the same story. So these trees are incredible, as to how far they can stay [healthy], the wood is really [wonderful]. [Note: But at a certain point the roots pull the tree apart and that is why they have to be brought down.] What was amazing were the holes in the bottom of the tree. The rats didn't just have apartments. They had condominiums. Oh man, just incredible, living like kings and queens. Okay. So I've talked to forestry, we have the plans, they were all planted along the property line and they said, they'd be glad to replant. You never know how many are going to come up, but I thought it'd be worth the effort. And 210 years from now, we could get together and celebrate. You want to mark that down on your calendar, so you don't show up a day late. Cause if anything ought to piss you off, it's something that's 210 years, and you miss it by a day.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=212.0,268.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. By a day. [laughing] So you live in this house?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=268.0,272.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, if you can call this living. Notice on the front, it looks like it's two stories, maybe three. You got to see it from the side: a basement, three full floors, and an attic. Now, my apartment—and I think that's where we'll finish up doing the interview—is about two thirds of the third floor, but it's on the other side. So that window right there is my bedroom on the other side. And that window over there would be my living room on the other side, except I have a four thousand book library. So it's more of the library of the house.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=272.0,309.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So that's pretty spacious by New York standards.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=309.0,314.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, we have 23 houses in the Historic House Trust all over the city and anyone who has seen a lot of the houses always tells me how fabulous mine is. And I love it. Best place I've ever had. [Interviewee note: Fox did say \"mine.\"]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=314.0,331.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Okay. Rufus King was not just a signer of the Constitution. He was the first one in the Philadelphia convention to speak out against slavery. And he's the first one to make it a moral issue. He was a Christian. He's buried at Grace Episcopal church yard and he was hopeful that the words of freedom were going to win out over slavery in the long haul. He had a consolation prize. At the same time the Constitution was being created in Philadelphia, the Continental Congress here in New York passed the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. Would you know anything about the Northwest Ordinance of 1787? Beginning in 1803, the territory became five states: Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, and Wisconsin. And in a nation thoroughly filled with slavery, those five states were brought in and remained free, because of Rufus King's ban against slavery that he put into the Northwest Ordinance of 1787.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=331.0,409.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So at that point, was he a Congressman?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=409.0,413.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: He was in [the Continental Congress under] the Articles of Confederation, [our first Constitution]. He was in office, but [also part of the delegation] writing [our current Constitution in Philadelphia] and he became our first United States Senator from New York. And that's the greatest story of carpetbagging we probably have, because he was from Scarborough, Maine, which was not a state. It was a colony of Massachusetts. So he signed from Massachusetts and he wanted to run for the Senate because he was part of that core group. You know, we talk today about people aren't involved. They don't care, blah, blah, blah, human nature being what it is. It's always been that way. The country was falling apart because of the states having so much control. These people talk about states' rights today. Hamilton and Madison wanted to eliminate the states, which is still a great idea, but I don't think it'll get done. 74 people were called to Philadelphia. Nineteen never showed up. Of the 55 that did, you'll never find a session with anywhere near 55. People came and left. People came in the middle, people came at the end, coming and going all the time. I can't ever find a core group of more—I'm going to say between 25 and 30, but Rufus King was a part of that. So he had played an important role, wanted to be a Senator, too many people are running. Then the fellow that was godfather to Rufus King's two older sons—one became a governor, the other became president of Columbia—you've heard of Alexander Hamilton. He said to Rufus, listen, even in the Continental Congress here in New York, you married a New York woman. You love theater. Come on down. I'll get you in the Senate. He's barely unpacked. Hamilton had so much power. Now the Senate was not chosen by the people until 1912. It was the legislature. He had so much power that he gets Rufus King—just gotten into town and becomes our first Senator. And the second one was his father-in-law Philip Schuyler, the military general. Now the first election, you had to draw straws because from then on every two years, a third of the Senate was voted on. So if you got a big straw, you got six years, [smaller straw] four years, then two years. To add insult to injury, our Rufus gets the entire six year term. Philip Schuyler, military general, gets a lousy two years.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=413.0,587.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: All right. Two years later they're so fed up. I've said many times that Hamilton was the genius. He was the best, but he didn't know when to quit. And two years later, they're so pissed off with him having the say so in everything that not only don't they reelect the father-in-law. They put into the Senate someone they know is going to bug the hell out of Alexander Hamilton. And thus our Rufus King served in the Senate with Senator Aaron Burr. Why do people read fiction? They can't handle the real thing? I mean what an incredible story that is! And as I said, Hamilton didn't know when to quit. In the Broadway show, they've got Aaron Burr saying to Hamilton, \"You talk too much,\" but either way. Hamilton knew how good he was. And when he died—Rufus tried to talk him out of the stupid duel, but boy, did he nail it right, when he said, that's going to be the end of the Federalist party. He's got plenty of people like myself to help him, but he understands human nature. That is an important key [as to why Hamilton brought so much to the political table.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=587.0,673.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [From outside the front of King Manor] All right. So when this whole thing is finished, the door and the window were over next to the other windows, [nothing was aligned]. From Jamaica Avenue, that looked stupid. So what they did, Mary and Rufus moved the door and the window over. So it's in the middle, except not quite. People have told me they've never seen this in the 30 years they passed by here. [Interviewee note: The door looks like it is in the middle - except. As Count Basie would say: \"Close enough for jazz.\"]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=673.0,700.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: It's not quite symmetrical, right?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=700.0,702.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: From the window to the end, window to the end. In between the windows, the space\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=702.0,709.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yes. It's different. it's lopsided.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=709.0,714.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well that's because they wanted a [very large] room [on one side]. President Washington sent Rufus and Mary to London for seven years to heal the wounds left over from the Revolutionary War. And they saw a dining room, which is exactly what they wanted. And it was so large that it threw the whole thing off. They had to have that dining room. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=714.0,737.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: So after four months in Philly. They got all the pieces. The only thing they really wanted—this is from the middle of May to middle of September. There's no electricity, there's no fans, there's no air conditioning. There is the summer heat. And then James Madison said, we're going to keep the doors and the windows closed cause I don't want the New York Times knowing what we're doing. No one had the courage to say, \"Jimmy, there is no New York Times.\" So they sweat it out for no apparent reason. You know, they wanted to get the hell out of town. And then, a guy with an idea. My saying is the wise guy with the idea said, and we've said it ever since, let's have a committee. And because it's his idea, he packs up and leaves town. Committee of style and arrangement. Governor Morris, who signed from Pennsylvania, but he comes from Morrisania. He's buried at St. Anne's Episcopal church in the Bronx. We had a Samuel Johnson, not London's; an American Samuel Johnson, who was president of Kings College. After the Revolutionary War, his son, William Samuel Johnson had just been made president of [renamed] Columbia. James Madison, Broadway's Alexander Hamilton, and our Rufus King are the five framers of the Constitution of the United States. [Let me show you what has been thoughtfully put, as a zipper, on the fence in front of King Manor.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=737.0,836.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Oh yes. That's a public art project. Right?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=836.0,841.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, I mean, when they put the fence up, they had the good sense to put — despite the flaws of the Constitution - never has there been written a better preamble. \"We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general affair and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=841.0,876.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: That's brilliant. Perfect.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=876.0,878.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Perfect. Now, I'm sure you know that every Borough has the Black Lives Matter [painted sign on one of the streets]? They wasted the one in Manhattan because they put it in front of the home of the Village Idiot. But ours is right here.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=878.0,894.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Oh, it's in front of the house.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=894.0,898.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: And what I'm able to tell people, when I don't have the snow, after we've done the tour, I say: \"This is so perfect. Not only do we have Rufus and Mary, the governor [son John], the work that he did, his son when he was in office. Charles, president of Columbia, put out a magazine to bug the hell out of the South once a month. He said: \"I wish I could figure out how to do this once a day.\" This family is a generational thing. And between them and the others, and then the war, we end up— Nobody came over here and said: \"Fox, should we name the Family Court [across the street from King Manor] after anybody that would connect?\" It's sometimes things fall into place and I can stand out there and say: \"It's because of what began here with the story of Rufus and Mary King and John and Charles, and the rest of them, that we have had the Thurgood Marshalls of the world [Interviewee note: the name they gave the Court], the first Solicitor General African-American, first African-American member of the Supreme Court, the lawyer for Brown vs. The Board of Education - segregation. What a story! And they've got different passages of his on the outside of the building over there. In the middle is [a sizing up of] all that he did. And then the first [quote is his thought] that the miracle of the Constitution was not its creation, but its life. Isn't that a great, fabulous thing for us to be able to [show off] and to get Black Lives Matter as a result of it [Interviewee note: as a transition between the two buildings].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=898.0,995.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: After World War 2, Jamaica was a shopping paradise until the malls went up. And this was the first of the big stores. This was a Montgomery Wards. Or as my dad called it, monkey wards.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=995.0,1008.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So it was a big department store.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1008.0,1010.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Big department store. Oh yeah. You don't know of Montgomery Wards, massive.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1010.0,1014.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: I've heard of it, but I didn't know. Because I had heard about Gertz and J Kurtz and Sons. I thought everything was down there. I didn't realize there was one here.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1014.0,1024.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: And then when they shut that down, York College came into being, and this was their first building. And when they finished with the new campus, across the tracks, the cops took it. It was never a precinct. It was a business office. Then they completely gutted the building and started over. There's chimneys. You see those, they're all over the building. And what they did was to bring—what is the department that deals with bodies and crime and all this stuff?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1024.0,1057.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Forensics?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1057.0,1060.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Forensics. They took forensic from downtown Manhattan and NYPD brought forensic right there. Now, and I want you to know, I don't know anything about forensic, nothing, but I'm here all the time. And there are people that go into that building that never come out. I really think we should look into that. If you would like to, if I could hold your stuff and give me some telephone numbers for people, next of kin and stuff. And if you could go in and check it out now, I'll stand out here for a while. I mean, I can't stand out here for a week or something. But I think I'll stand here for a few minutes and if you don't come out. Okay. [laughing]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1060.0,1103.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So we're talking. What is her name again?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1103.0,1105.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Ann Jacobowski [Interviewee's note: was the best Board President we've ever had and Chief Executive to one of our neighborhood buildings, Social Security]. And so she's introduced to Mayor Bloomberg as the woman that runs Social Security for the entire Northeast. Well, you must remember the wonderful days of Bloomberg. He says: \"You know, Ms. Jacobowski, I only get paid $1 a year.\" She says, \"You know, Mr. Mayor, I do know that.\" He says: \"You're taking 7 cents.\" She says: \"I'll look into it for you.\" Now, if that's not a New York, New York story, there is no New York, New York story. One of the richest guys in the whole wide world, $1. And I said, you matched the mayor, line for line? You're the biggest hero I will ever have in my life.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1105.0,1154.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: So few parks in this area. So people really gather in the summertime and this place is just overloaded. But, yes, I would say, and I think that for the most part, the citizens—you always got the troublemakers—really make an effort to take care. And we just got the new globes with the LED bulbs. And so the park is that much brighter. It looks gorgeous. And you'll see my office window looks out and I was thinking, when it snowed the other day, the first time I was here, we had a snow storm and I looked up from what I was reading and I thought, wait a second. I live in New York City. What the hell happened to the city? I turned the page of the book and someone stole [my city]? I don't get this.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1154.0,1209.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: I've always told people—first of all, Chicagoan by birth, New Yorker by choice, I can't imagine anyone loves the city more than I do. I just got a thing about it. And I love the city, but I have to live near a park. I lived near Carl Schurz. I lived near Prospect. I lived near Central. Living in a park is even better because when I open the door in the morning, I have the squirrels with the four legs to deal with before I have to go up to Jamaica Avenue and deal with us squirrels with the two legs. But knowing at the end of the day, I can always come back to my friends before I close up the day.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1209.0,1250.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: That's quite amazing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1250.0,1253.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: I wanted you to see [the building walking around the outside], because when we're moving around inside with the building in three different parts, that sometimes gets a bit confusing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1253.0,1262.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: When I was a kid [in Chicago], the Tivey family across the street, three of the boys wanted to be Catholic priests. I had an altar downstairs in my basement [Interviewee note: Lutheran persuasion] and they had an altar in theirs and we had interdenominational services, the first in Christian history. [laughing]. As with Rufus, the idea has been lost. But I'm telling you. And they gave me a crucifix and I took it upstairs and my mother almost killed me right on the spot. And she wasn't so excited about having me anyway, but oh my God, a Lutheran with a crucifix. No, you don't do that. I mean, I do, but she didn't.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1262.0,1301.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: But it's funny that everyone wants to be a priest in your neighborhood.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1301.0,1305.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: One of us made it. Yeah. Jerry, Jerry Tivey is still at a Catholic church in a suburb of Chicago. Isn't that crazy stuff. I got to the third year of high school and I thought, the Lutheran system is four years of college, four years of graduate. Third year you're a vicar—the vicar at a church, which means you are an assistant minister. That's how I came East [for the first time]. Ridgewood, New Jersey was the first [trip to the East Coast]. But third year high school, I'm going, \"I'm never going to get through high school, much less college.\" Me, attitude problem, just barely finished. There was a guy, oh my God. You remember turntables where you put records on. There was a guy by the name of Marty Faye on the radio. God did I love listening to him. He would take an Elvis Presley record. This is when he's on the air. He'd rip it off the turntable, break it over the microphone and go into Frank Sinatra. And I thought \"Hey, I can do this.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1305.0,1368.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: As a protest?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1368.0,1368.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: He was just a funny guy that played great music. He played Broadway and he played Count Basie, Ella and all the stuff I love. So I go to broadcasting school three months and they give you a lead. I started out in Henderson, Kentucky, a daytime station—were we 500 Watts? It was amazing. We went coast to coast. We went from one side of the Ohio river clear across to the other side of the Ohio river, which is pretty impressive.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1368.0,1402.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So you were a radio—?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1402.0,1408.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: I was a disc jockey and then I went into talk, but I started taking courses at night and things like this. I went back, went to the seminary, and I think of the kids today. Because of the way it turned out, radio paid my way through school. I had a radio show throughout, three to six in the afternoon. This school was in Springfield, Illinois. And then I go out on vicarage. The only thing I ever wanted to be, and I get out here, definitely have a Lutheran church. And I thought, how many classes did I actually sleep through? Because what I wanted was to be able to communicate, to preach and to teach. And if you're a really good minister, in addition to that, you have to have organizational skills. You have to have business skills. You have all that crap that not only don't I have, I purposely don't want it. It was the only time I ever prayed all night, and went into radio full time, 30 years. I can take you from Boston to Phoenix and never leave a state I haven't worked in, including the state of confusion, which is where I'm spending most of my time these days. But think about this, 30 year broadcaster, 30 year caretaker, you're looking at an 81 year old human being who has never, ever worked a legitimate day in his life. I used to play radio in the basement in Chicago and they don't pay me to give a station break, I can't wait to get on the air. [laughing]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1408.0,1513.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: That's wonderful. You found your passion.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1513.0,1517.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Have there been visitors lately?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1517.0,1520.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well the Historic House Trust set out all the laws and stipulations [Interviewee's note: to make life miserable]. We can't just have somebody come to the door. We have to do reservations 48 hours ahead of time. So a couple of things, they can take a tour at either 11, 1, or 3. And Kelsey [Kelsey Brow, Executive Director of King Manor] was always so thrilled that we were the only small museum open seven days a week. But I said, look, we got to deal with reality [Interviewee's note: spoilsport Fox] so what we've done is, we're closed on Wednesday and Sunday, but we're open five days a week, which is good.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1520.0,1556.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: And are visitors coming?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1556.0,1557.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. It's a mixed bag. Some of them are, and some are not [Interviewee's note: some sign up and don't appear]. We think it's because this virus thing has gotten so bad again. Because it's like we've talked here about all of us should be going out less and less and be sure to be wearing a mask, [Interviewee's note: so they want to come, but probably choose to make it another time.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1557.0,1576.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [Inside King Manor] The problem is hallways are used in an entirely different way, from then and now. We use it to get from one room to the other. This room and the room upstairs are the only two rooms that have cross ventilation. [Interviewee's note: So the hallways become another room, well used.] We know Rufus King had a desk here. The women folk would work here. Summertime heat, no electricity, no fans, no air conditioning. Look at the size of that door. People weren't that big. I mean, they are now, but we'll talk about that another time. But cross-ventilation, open these doors, there's breezes coming through. Now, notice they're out of tune. I told you that they moved the door and the window. This door and that door (pointing from front door to back) were aligned at one point; we still got a crack here to show where the door had been initially.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1576.0,1633.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So his office was here.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1633.0,1651.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [Walking] This is a different stage of the game [pointing to portrait]. He is 65 and he would live seven more years. This is 1820 when he took his stand against the Missouri Compromise. That's [Interviewee's note: a reproduction of] a Gilbert Stuart. But when they were in England, this is a reproduction of a John Trumbull [of Mary King]. This was done when they were in London and Mary is 30 years old. She's already given birth to five sons that went on to successful careers, lost a young son and a young daughter. Mary and Rufus were 15 years difference in age. She's 30 and I want to do for Rufus what I keep trying to do for myself, I'm going to take 20 years off of his life. [Interviewee's note: Comparison of the Stuart work with the one done by Trumbull]. And he is now 45 to show you what a handsome couple President Washington sent to England. And the King of England refused to see him, or when Washington died, refused to say anything. Rufus, his strength was his power of, over a period of time, winning people over to his side of the fence. And when they left London, the London Times didn't just make mention of their leaving, but wrote an editorial which sounds like a Broadway review of how much King did to bring the relations between England and the United States back [Interviewee's note: to that of allies].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1651.0,1729.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So he really repaired the relationship.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1729.0,1730.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Oh my God, the King is at a final gathering and he comes up and he said, \"Ambassador, I've been meaning to tell you this for a long time, and I'm really glad they had this gathering today.\" And Rufus says, \"What is that, your Majesty?\" And the King of England says, \"You have always treated me like a gentleman, which is more than I can say for any of my subjects.\" [laughing]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1730.0,1757.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Ten years later, we're fighting the Brits again. War of 1812. The Maryland Gazette writes in an editorial, \"Why the incompetence? Why couldn't Senator Rufus King be the president. This never would have happened.\" I have the essays upstairs to show how easily Rufus would have kept the war from happening. The incompetence? James Madison was the President and James Monroe was both the Secretary of State and the Secretary of War. The incompetence? [Interviewee's note: The desire to have a President King?] Quite an impression of Rufus King in his lifetime.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1757.0,1796.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Now, I talked about Kelsey. Just a few words about David John Gary. First of all, David John Gary has three really simple first names and no last name. I don't know if this is a family tradition or what? I keep trying to trade off a couple of the first names for a decent last name. But I said, \"David, nobody wants any of your first names.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1796.0,1821.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Is his last name Gary, G A R Y?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1821.0,1824.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. And he came here out of Gettysburg college. He was our assistant education director. We were paying him squat. He had two or three interests of what he would like to do. And one of them, Gettysburg's a Lutheran school so he was thinking maybe the ministry. I said, look, you can stay with me until you figure out what you're going to do. So we're out drinking one night and he said, \"Fox, you screwed me up.\" I said, \"Pal, you ain't the first, you ain't going to be the last. What have I done now?\" The graduate school of CUNY, 281 page dissertation on Rufus King, doctor's degree in history, was teaching at Yale. He's now in Philadelphia on the Mall. His office looks out on Independence Hall and the Constitution Center. He is with the American Philosophical Society created by Benjamin Franklin for scholars and graduate students from around the world. Three publishing houses talking to him about an updated biography on Rufus King.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1824.0,1894.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Perfect. So is there one definitive biography?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1894.0,1898.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: There is. It was made in 1968 and Professor [Robert] Ernst has since died. But he was teaching at Adelphi and he and his wife were so thrilled that someone was picking up on what the professor had created.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1898.0,1915.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: I'm sure there's more research to be done. Right? Are there new sources that are being discovered?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1915.0,1921.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: All the stuff on—Rufus had the third largest library in the United States, 3,285, as I recollect. And all of that stuff is at the [New York] Historical Society, [Interviewee's note: books, papers, correspondence between] the founding fathers. In Manhattan, right across from the Museum of Natural History in New York. The Gilder Lehrman historical group, they've got offices in the basement and they were paying David a few bucks towards his education. And he worked there a few hours and his boss would always say if there's nothing going on, go work on the King papers, because I know that's what you want to do. David called me one day and he said, You and Rufus have something in common. I said, Like what? He says, he writes in the books just like you do. I said, no, there's a difference. He said, What's that? I said, He's got something important to say. To get his degree, he turned every page of those 3,000 plus books. And I was there when they put him through his paces for him to get his degree. And we went out afterwards and I said to his mentor: \"I thought you're supposed to challenge these guys. They were just talking about what he's going to do.\" He said: \"Fox, no one's seen a paper like his.\" Read everything, turned pages on some 3000 books because he saw a few items [Interviewee's note: King's written notes and their importance in figuring him out]. I'll give you a couple of examples upstairs. The professor said, \"Dave is really something.\" And David has become the authority on Rufus King. And he's in contact with people from all over the world. We're going to get Rufus King back in the front line of Founding Fathers.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1921.0,2031.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Good. There should be a musical, after Hamilton.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2031.0,2036.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: I'm in Hamilton's book [biography by Ron Chernow]. I'm listed as the curator, and a friend said to me: \"You're going to call so they can correct it in the paperback?\" I said: \"Let me just run this past you. I should call and move from being a caretaker to a curator? Why would I be doing that? Please tell me.\" So I made it into both the paperback and the hardcover.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2036.0,2060.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: That's great.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2060.0,2060.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [Ron Chernow] came out her for a day.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2060.0,2070.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Did you get to meet him in person?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2070.0,2070.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: We spent a day together. But you know, you do have to ask just who the hell [Interviewee's note: can deal with this objectively]? If he couldn't get my position right, do we really think he got everything else right? I'm not too sure about it. [laughing].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2070.0,2082.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. That's a good point.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2082.0,2089.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: So it's between Kelsey now making this place happen, and David, the authority on King. And, I'll give you some of the reasons why King's got to be back where he was when he was here, the important role that he played. Now, because this is a landmark historic building, we can't have fireplaces. And the kids are always disappointed whenever we show them, like this [pulling back the covering of the open fire place - bricked over], but the reason we can have heating and air conditioning and it looks like we don't have. Inside the covered over fire space, as you saw it coming in here from the other room, they tore out part of the chimney that they're working on. And as a result, we get all this wonderful, modern stuff [heat and cool air].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2089.0,2138.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: That is a piano forté. It was built by a very well-known guy [Interviewee's note: Clementi] at the time. Not so well-known anymore, in London. And we know that Mary was given harpsichord lessons. So we assume that they had exactly this kind of instrument from what Rufus wrote. This being the instrument that Mozart used often, less keys and the sound is a transition between the harpsichord and a piano.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2138.0,2169.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So we don't know if this is the one she actually played.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2169.0,2173.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: It's not. But I will tell you, you don't have the feet pedals, because you don't want women showing their ankles. I'm almost embarrassed to tell you that. And so as a result, this is the way you sustain the notes [using fingers with sustaining pulleys on the side].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2173.0,2184.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Oh, that's the pedal. That's where you—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2184.0,2188.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Fella came out here and he was giving a concert on a new version of that kind of an instrument. And I said, What do you think of this thing? He said, You know, this is a fabulous instrument. I can tune it. I can fix it. Whatever the flaws are, it won't cost you very much. I said, \"You know, my definition of not costing very much and most other peoples' of not costing, turns out to be a vast difference between them.\" He not only got it running, but once a year we move this into the dining room and the first concert he gives (once a year at Christmas time), of course not this year. He and his wife did a concert, four hands, with less keys. That was just fabulous. Every year, he brings other musicians and they play a concert. He's great because he'll stop in the middle of a piece to explain, this is the way to do classical music. And, he has such a great way of telling stories, such as what Beethoven was doing when he wrote a particular piece. Rufus was born a year before Mozart. He was born in 1755 and he died the year Beethoven died. Can you imagine living in that era of classical music? What a kick to hear this music for the first time.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2188.0,2285.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: To be contemporary with those.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2285.0,2287.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [Referring to a news article talking about a slave on King family land.] It had nothing to do with King, but the way the story was written, it gave the impression that the slave was connected to this house. And I can't tell you how many times people have asked me about it. Even really being, \"Well, the plantation—\". I said, wait a second, you picked up on a news— \"No. I, we all know.\" I've got the article upstairs. And I say, here, take time, just listen to this and I explain.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2287.0,2314.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So what I read on the website of King Manor was that he had black and white laborers, from 1800 on and then later it was more Scottish and Irish.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2314.0,2329.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, the point is Rufus was surrounded by slavery. His parents, Mary's parents, not a lot, just a couple. You know there were a lot of people against slavery back then, but the attitude was, well as long as it's legal, you might as well have one or two hanging around the house. John Jay, one of the writers of the Federalist papers. He was governor of the state. He was the American Bible Society, head of. Really a firm Christian, but had a couple of slaves. But many times they—you know, listen, slavery in a city is a hell of a lot different than plantation. And in some cases, it's not as though they'd stick around, even if they could go free—I'm not saying that. I'm simply saying that the quality of life, in some cases, they tried to make them a member of the family without asking them, do you want to be a member of the family? But, let me tell you this. Ernst in his book, in a note, he's got Rufus and Mary King had a slave, Margaret. She was freed in 1812, I've got the manumission paper and they may have had her since 1805 cause that's when they bought the house.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2329.0,2424.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, knowing—I guess the greatest example is George Mason, Mason University. He showed up the morning everyone signed the constitution purposely to say he's not signing. And it's because they didn't make more of an effort to see that slavery would come to an end. He had a couple of hundred slaves and never had any intention of freeing them. He gave them to the family. This is what goes on in our heads. He wanted it to end. And he wanted, he was there in Philadelphia to see—an incredible guy, but he couldn't bring himself to do it. Well, I'm thinking, no, no. I knew of Rufus King before I came here. He and Mary are not the kind that—let's have one or two hanging around the house. Wouldn't it be nice. I go over to the Long Island Division in the library—I'm trying to think of the name of the guy [Interviewee's note: Hewlett]—that Rufus and Mary bought Margaret [from]. And George [the librarian] was a guy over there, really knew his stuff at the library. And I said the name of Hewlett family. And I said from Flushing. He says, \"Fox, the entire family comes from Hempstead, not Flushing.\" Hey, I only give an impression I have something to do. I have nothing to do with my life. Can I just see, let's say 1890, I mean 1790-1820. I just want to look at deeds and census and all this. And it's semi-organized. So I'm sitting there just going through this, you know how easy not to concentrate. You would think what if in the last 10 minutes, I found it and I didn't see it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2424.0,2544.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. This is at the Queens room at the—?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2544.0,2548.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well this used to be on the second floor, now it's down in the basement.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2548.0,2551.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Okay. But it's the Queens room, right? Isn't there a history room?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2551.0,2555.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: It's the Long Island Division. That's what it's called. You know, nice and quiet. These are the knotty pine walls and everything. God, that was a fabulous place to do work. I said, \"George, I found it!\" Hewlett did come from Flushing. He was a member of the Catholic church. I mean the Episcopal church out there, St. George's I think it is, but there was a family feud or something so he started coming to Grace. Rufus freed her in December of 1812. And you couldn't just free a black female who was supposed to be 25 and they had to be able to prove that they could live on their own. Rufus and Mary did buy Margaret, not in 1805, in April of 1812, freed in December 1812. They didn't buy a slave to have a slave. They bought her to free. What kind of a great story is that, as opposed to the founding fathers that we honor. Slavery.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2555.0,2644.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Okay. 1820. The Missouri Compromise. Rufus thought, as I told you, that the words of freedom were going to win out; slavery is never mentioned in the constitution. They knew what they were doing. 33 years later, after signing the constitution, the Missouri Compromise. Congress is moving slavery into new territory. [King] is as outraged as I've ever seen him. He's the last of the signers and framers still in the Senate. The free blacks of Washington get wind. He's up to something. They fill the galleries, slave holder senators on the floor. February 11th, 1820, \"Mr. President, I have yet to learn that one man can make a slave of another. If one man cannot do so, no number of individuals can have any better right to do it. And I hold that all laws and compacts imposing any such condition upon any human being are absolutely void, because contrary to the law of nature, which is the law of God, by which he makes his way known to man, and is paramount to all human control.\" Senators are in an outrage. They know they're going to win. It's going to happen. They just don't want to be put in their place. John Quincy Adams, as the Secretary of State - if he had called me, I would have paid him to do what he did—never called. In his famous diary, he writes: \"I can't believe the speech I just heard by Senator Rufus King of New York. He has the slaveholders seize with cramps.\" In my lecture, I say, look, every generation talks funny, moving down the physiological scale a tad, we would say Rufus King had become a royal pain in the butt. Lost the battle, but struck the standard. That's why he's the one that we should be following today. Win, lose, or draw to do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2644.0,2785.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: David Brian Davis, I'm sorry to say, just recently died. He headed up the history department at Yale much of his career and knew the business of slavery better than anybody. And in the second last of his books, Challenging the Boundaries of Slavery, David Brian Davis quotes what I just shared with you. And writes: \"So far as I know, up to that time, no statesman or political leader in the world had publicly made such a radical declaration of slavery's illegality.\" Thomas Jefferson was 78 years at the time. A Congressman writes him and he said, you know, you've always said your generation couldn't do anything about the slave situation. And I'm thinking, of course not, he's running a slave ranch; that's a full-time job. You said the next generation would have to attend to it. He said, Senator King is the next generation. Jefferson 1743, Rufus 1755, would you please, please support Rufus King. Jefferson writes the Congressman back. He calls Rufus King—listen to the terminology with what goes on today. He calls Rufus King a traitor to the white community because of Rufus King's stand against slavery. And yet we honor Jefferson on July 4. And to add insult to injury, we've lost all track of the Rufus King legacy. Incredible, huh.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2785.0,2897.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: There needs to be more information about him.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2897.0,2901.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: I got Kelsey and I got three first names [David John Gary]. Columbia University did the work on the house and they were able to determine what things looked like between 1800 and 1825. And they said it was easy to do because when Rufus died—Mary had died earlier—John, the oldest son moved in here and he lived here for 40 years to 1867 and became governor. And then his daughter never married. She lived here for another 30 years and I just passed her record at 31. And then they had cut the 122 acres down to 11. And they turned that and the house over to the village of Jamaica. This was 1897. And one year later, the village of Jamaica has got the good sense to vote to become part of the greatest city in the world, so much so we say it twice: New York, New York. So we've been part of the Historic House Trust before there was a Historic House Trust and that's been just great.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2901.0,2972.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Okay. The Congress, because of the [Revolutionary] War, had been meeting every year at different places. They were in Trenton, they were in Princeton and all these were very small places and there weren't a lot of women. So they get to New York and about eight of the Congress folks got married within about six or eight months, including our Rufus. He rented a room in the house right down the street from where the Congress was meeting. They had one daughter, which was Mary and everyone agreed he got the winner and they were madly in love. You know, Rufus was not a stuffed shirt, but he was a Senator of the United States. And she was always by his side. And she always had, no matter what was going on, she had this wonderful twinkle in her eye. [Interviewee's note: Reading her letters makes the case.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=2972.0,3032.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: There are two buildings on the campus at Queens College that are tributes to Founding Fathers. There is the Jefferson building and there is Rufus King Hall. Both are necessary to tell the story. The one a dreamer who couldn't bring himself to fulfill the hopes he put on paper, the other determined to make of those dreams reality. When Abraham Lincoln was making his bid for the presidency, he didn't look to Washington or Jefferson to serve as an example of what he had in mind for the future of the nation. In his critical presentation here in New York at Cooper Union—the room is still there, the podium is still there—Mr. Lincoln used as an illustration of those doing it right from the get-go Senator Rufus King, who \"...steadily voted for slavery prohibition and against all compromises. By this Mr. King showed that in his understanding, no line dividing local from federal authority, not anything in the constitution was violated by Congress, prohibiting slavery on federal territory.\" Pretty good recommendation.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3032.0,3110.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Okay. And then when he gave his speech against slavery in 1820, he had it printed up. He was looking for trouble. In an essay about him, the author says that [reading] \"...his speeches were printed and circulated, his ideas formed the basis for many of the essays, memorials and speeches presented in support of his stand. People north and south looked to Rufus King as the power which had awakened the nation.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3110.0,3149.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Let me get to Mary's stuff. She's in Washington and Frederick her son is running the farm. So she's writing to him about the roads. [reading Mary King's letter] \"I wish most sincerely there was a prospect of our trying them [the roads] soon as I'm quite tired of this imprisonment, but there are so many gentlemen in Congress who are pleased with the sound of their own sweet voice. Two thirds of a session are consumed with making fine speeches instead of doing the business for which they were sent here. However, I trust that the session will not be too much longer protracted.\" Listen, this is written, 1816. Madison's the president. [Interviewee's note: Monroe is both Secretary of of State and War]. Some things don't change here. Human nature.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3149.0,3206.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Both John and Charles stayed in London to finish their education and Mary writes Charles and she said, \"[I can't tell you how much I enjoyed] our walk every day. All that we got to see, how much I so much enjoyed being with you. I try to, after we got back, tried to get [Interviewee's note: your father to walk with me].\" And it's a pause. \"You know your father: unless he's chained to his desk 17 hours a day, the Republic will never survive.\" Always that fabulous sense of humor that she had.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3206.0,3249.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [Into the Dining Room] Columbia University said that there was a process of determining how the room looked. They were able to develop from this patch what the room looked like when the Kings created the room. If you allow that Mary knew where to put the candles and the mirrors, this would be fabulous. So it goes from the dining room to a ballroom. The table is reproduced, but they've got wheels and the sections come apart, so the table comes out easily. This is an early version of linoleum. Get it out, and there your transition from dining room to ballroom, with your musicians at the far end.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3249.0,3295.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: It's quite spacious.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3295.0,3295.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Pretty grand and glorious.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3295.0,3299.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [In the study, referring to Rufus King's desk] Kelsey came and raised the money so that it could be restored. A guy up in the Hudson Valley took it away for us and brought it back. And now Rufus is sitting there.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3299.0,3308.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: It's so small. It's funny. I don't know. I guess that was the style of desk at the time too.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3308.0,3314.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Now September 17th was declared by President Truman in 1952 as Citizenship Day because on September 17th, 1787, the Founding Fathers signed the Constitution. So aside from this year, that is our most important date. And in the backyard, we have 100 people from all over the world. The last time we did it, [folks from] 24 countries, become citizens of the United States. And this is like our staging area here. And I have the privilege of explaining to these people why becoming a citizen in this house is a rare privilege for all of us. Now you saw how big the dining room table. [Interviewee's note: We have a Constitution the size of that table]. We move Rufus alongside that table. These are his papers from the [Constitutional] Convention with his notes. He's sitting alongside that table, and these people have just been made citizens. They come in and they sign their names under the names of the Founding Fathers. Not a dry eye in the joint.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3314.0,3393.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Guy came up after—this was about three years ago. He said, \"Fox, I have such mixed emotions.\" I said, do you have any idea how much work I did for you to have mixed emotions? He said, \"Please, my wife was made a citizen six months ago at the post office and what a nothing day that was. So this morning she says to me, honey, should I come along with you? And dumb me says, no, it'll probably be more of the same. I can't believe what I just experienced here.\" I said, that's all right, you're going to bring your sweetie. You're going to get a Fox tour and I'm going to take you out for dinner.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3393.0,3429.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Is it something that's done yearly, did you say?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3429.0,3436.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. Not this year, obviously\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3436.0,3438.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Now Rufus, I wish I could have these upstairs. [referring to double plank bookshelves in the library] Rufus had these fitted and put in this room. There's 3,000 books. Look at this. You put the big books here. You put the small books here—twice as many books in the same space [Interviewee's note: created so that the small books are under/alongside the large ones]. Sheer genius. Now I told you about his regard for his wife's money. This is not knotty pine. This is painted, but you save some money and you see what happens after 30 years [pointing to the paint which has started peeling].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3438.0,3469.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: And here's a patch [of wallpaper]. It's very expensive today compared to the savings for King. It cost us a fortune. Lady down in the Carolinas came. But this is the original patch. And from that she created what you see. Now, the doodad there and over here [showing bell contraption]. On East 4th street, the Merchant's House has an entire system. You run the cord from down here [the kitchen] and [to the spot where] you ring for the cook. We got it in bits and pieces throughout the house. They had one on the tour that I was on [at the Merchant's House]. They kept pointing that out. At the end of the tour, in the kitchen, somebody rang the bell. An early version of the internet. It doesn't cover quite as much territory, but you mustn't be picky; it's what they needed. It was fine.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3469.0,3524.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. It was a bell. Yeah. So you said his books were moved to the New York Historical Society,\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3524.0,3533.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: His books, his papers, everything. And then one of his grandsons put a six volume set together. Let me see. Six volume set of what he thought was the best of Rufus's correspondence, essays at 500 copies. Here's three of them. We got this from Robert Ernst, the author of the biography. I had breakfast with him and I said, Professor, we need to have that 6 volume set. Tell me how, and we've got a few bucks to work with. How do we go about finding something like this? He said, \"You can have mine.\" I said, what? He said: \"I finished. I can't have anything that's more of a privilege than you keeping work I did alive.\" And then when Dave came up. After he [Ernst] died, his wife called me and she said, I'm sending all of my husband's library to the university except whatever David wants. And so we go over to his house out in Long Island, small room that looked down on his garden. And that's where he wrote the biography and we hauled off with, I think, 150 volumes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3533.0,3620.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Wow. That's great. And those are here?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3620.0,3625.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. There's three more. This is the way the current volume is. This is the old stuff we had to work with that they took up to Massachusetts. And from that, they created these. [Interviewee's note: So there is the six volume set from Ernst. From that we had an entirely new set created.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3625.0,3637.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Now, here is me talking to the people that are becoming citizens. [showing photograph of himself at lectern with Homeland Security seal] And I just want to point out that if I'm Homeland Security, you've got many more problems than you ever thought that you had in your life.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3637.0,3656.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Okay. And that's where you had people sign under?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3656.0,3660.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. On that dining room table. [showing photos, articles] This is Nadezhda [Williams Allen]. She was our fabulous executive director. She said, Fox, I was so tired. I said, \"You're glowing is what you're doing.\" Regardless of how you feel.100 people on the back yard have just been made citizens. What a kick, huh? Look at the picture of this chap signing his name under the names of the Founding Fathers. What a joy. This is a daughter of a woman that had just been made a citizen. So she's checking out Rufus's writing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3660.0,3701.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Fire in 64, the city simply didn't take care of the house. It happened in the basement. This is the dining room we were just in. Got to be careful of everything you read. [Reading article] \"Firemen spray wrecked dining room of historic King mansion (not a mansion, it's a Manor house) where George Washington took tea with friend, Rufus King.\" If I was going to be picky and I'm not a picky person, but I'll make an exception because you're here. Rufus and Mary bought the house about five years after George had died. But you know, I figured if new age religion, Thursday afternoon high tea. My God who knew who'd been in attendance. [laughing].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3701.0,3747.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Okay. Look at this. [showing photo] Sharyn is one of our tour guides. Dick Gibbs is on our board. There is my Nadezhda. There's Brittany [Lester]. She's our education director. This one is related to James Gore King, Rufus' third oldest son [Daphne Jay Bell]. She's also related to John Jay. This woman is history walking. And here's our Kelsey. Look at her, arm around Rufus. Isn't that just plain joyful?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3747.0,3791.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: This is James Gore King, the third son [showing painting]. Buried in the church yard is James. And if you start with Rufus 1755, James Gore came the first, then second, the third, the fourth and the fifth, 1979. That's more than American history in one family line. When I went back to fall in love with Juneau, Alaska in '18, I had dinner with James Gore King the 6th, James Gore King the 7th—I'm not done—18-year-old James Gore King the 8th. And when they earlier had been down here from the West coast, there was about, I don't know, 16 or 18 people. And we got to the point where James Gore King the fifth is buried. What a moment that was for everyone. That was the father, grandfather, great grandfather. Quite a moment!\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3791.0,3842.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So the family is scattered all over the country now?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3842.0,3849.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well James Gore King the 6th moved to Alaska to be a bush pilot back in the day when a bush pilot was really an exciting job. His house is between Juneau and the airport and from his office at night, you'd see the airport lights. [showing photo].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3849.0,3861.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Now once again, Rufus had been a tremendous influence on John Quincy Adams. John and John Quincy had been against slavery throughout, but John Q. Adams said we should not make a really big deal about it because it may upset the applecart they're trying to create [Interviewee's note: living together as both slave and free]. Once he comes in contact with Rufus King, he said, no, it's gotta be more than that. He was the lawyer at the Supreme Court for the—remember that ship that slaves took over - the Amistad? Adams won their freedom. There's a big tribute in front of city hall [in New Haven telling the story].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3861.0,3897.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. There was a movie made about it. The Amistad.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3897.0,3903.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: And he was the lawyer. And it's just incredible.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3903.0,3909.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So Rufus had a profound influence on him.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3909.0,3911.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yep. And this is where he slept. [showing upstairs President's Room]. Rufus invited the entire neighborhood. He had two kitchens. The one is part of this house that you'll see. And then the north kitchen, which not only is used for the summer heat, but if you're going to have a big feast, two kitchens are nice to have.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3911.0,3927.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. And so this is the guest room?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3927.0,3933.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well we call it the President's Room. And you get an idea of how large the rooms are.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3933.0,3941.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [walking to adjacent room] Twenty-five years, all we had was furniture on the entire floor. I mean, there was never any reason for it. And we've had people come back now. And Michael [Colon, Site Manager] says, he called me and he said, Fox, I just got through the tour, a woman hadn't been here for six years. She was stunned when I took her up to the second floor. Because we opened these rooms up.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3941.0,3966.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So what did the museum do with all that furniture?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3966.0,3969.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, Kelsey did a combination of things. Some of it, we just got rid of it. Some of it we traded with the other houses, it was stuff they wanted. I think we made a few bucks along the way. Nadezhda started, but Kevin (the guy that's responsible for King Park), says: \"Kelsey, kind of a firecracker, isn't she?\" I said, closer to a nuclear bomb. Just get ready. She calls me and says, Fox, what are you doing? I say: \"I have no idea. Please tell me. I'll know as soon as you tell me. What is it I'm doing?\" [laughing]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=3969.0,4014.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: And in 1827, his son John took over the residence in Jamaica. John Alsop King [son of Rufus and Mary] is the only person aside from Mario Cuomo to come from Jamaica and become governor of New York State. If you include the current governor, they are the only three that come from Queens and become governor of the state. Something wrong with that, too. But earlier in his career, while serving in the United States Congress, not the Senate, in the Congress, in the House of Representatives, John King, as had his father, fought the additional inroads of slavery. This time, the Compromise of 1850. Listen to how well-written this is. He gets up on the House floor, \"New Yorkers,\" he declared, \"are free men and the liberty they enjoy they would transmit to their children. It is the settled, calm, and deliberate conviction and judgment of the vast majority of the people of that state that the soil of freedom should never by their vote or act become the resting place of slavery.\" How thrilled would his parents have been. Now when he's governor two-year terms, 1857-59, the Blackbirders would come from the South. They grabbed the free blacks, take them and sell them as slaves. The governor went after these creeps, brought them back, on trial, into the hoosegow, and then, with funds available, a public proclamation to bring back to New York our free citizens.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4014.0,4112.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So he brought these blacks back from the South who had been sold.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4112.0,4117.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Again, how does a story like this get lost. And we end up with those that did a little something, but only what they wanted. And to hell with everyone else. It's just incredible. It really is.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4117.0,4129.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: It's a father-son legacy.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4129.0,4130.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: [Speaking about upstairs governor's study] We don't have much in the way of furniture. We have two items. This is the governor's desk [John Alsop King]. I mean, you got dressers, you get all this other stuff, not us, two items we got, but is this important? The desk. Take a close look at this piece of furniture. It's just fabulous.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4130.0,4147.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. It's beautiful. And are these actual or reproductions [paperwork on desk]?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4147.0,4155.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Some of the actual material. Michael is really working to pull together a lot of different things.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4155.0,4165.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: This says potatoes. Looks like a—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4165.0,4175.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Because they kept notes. And so we've got a lot of information. Margaret [the freed slave], I was finally able to track down some other things. Margaret came back here. He always had some employees that lived on the second floor of the cottage. Margaret came back here and for three years worked and Rufus listed how much she was paid and everything. And then Mary writes a letter when she's in Washington. And I think it was Frederick again that was watching over the farm. Yes. I know it was. She said, before Margaret leaves find out where she's going, because we've got to stay in touch. Margaret became a member, a friend of the family for heavens' sake. What a story.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4175.0,4216.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. Wait, remind me. Who was Margaret again?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4216.0,4221.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Margaret was the one they bought and freed. And this business of having to be 25 years old. I'll show you the manumission. The town fathers asked Rufus how old, and he said, I think about 20. And my guess is they probably thought, All right, if Rufus King thinks it's okay to free her. From that time from April, they must've known too that she was bought in April and probably put her through her paces as to what she would do or anything else. A fabulous story. I preached the sermon—Grace Church is where they were active—and I did this a couple of years ago. I talked to them about the story of Margaret. And when I told them, I said, please keep in mind she was free December of 1812. And when I got to the part, April 1812, [Gasps, then laughs].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4221.0,4277.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah, Not one year,\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4277.0,4283.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Okay. This is our exhibition room. Rufus King's bedroom is the only room we still have to work on and Kelsey wants that done in short order [Interviewee's note: It opens May 2021]. This is the room the family used as kind of their common room when there wasn't fancy stuff going downstairs. Hannah [Winiker, curatorial assistant] works here two days a week. I don't believe that. I don't think anybody can do the work she does two days a week. She put together the president's room and she's responsible for this exhibition. And this has to do with women and please notice [showing wall text] curated by Kelsey Brow and Hannah, Primary researcher, Nadezhda [Williams Allen]. So what a team effort this is. This was Nadya's graduate paper. And, to Hannah, Nadezhda said: \"Listen, I wrote that, what, 20 years ago?\" Hannah said, well, let's talk about it and what should be the changes and stuff. And that's what they did. They brought it up to date.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4283.0,4343.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So Denmark V E S E Y.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4343.0,4347.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: V E S E Y . He [Denmark Vesey] was a slave to a captain and he learned a couple of languages. He learned to be a carpenter. We think he was born in the Denmark Virgin islands. That's the American Virgin Islands today. And he's named after the captain. The captain in turn is related to the first rector of Trinity Wall Street. There's a Vesey street down there. Well, the captain finally decides enough of being on the water, settles into Charleston, South Carolina, and—this happened quite a bit—allowed his slave to take outside work. And it was always a different kind of a thing. He allowed him to do that, but he wanted half the money. So Denmark buys a lottery ticket. He wins $1,500. This is 1822, two years after Rufus's stand against slavery. He goes to the captain. He says, you know, this business of slavery is not what it's cut out to be. Those are not exactly his words. That's kind of a Fox rendition. I'd like to get out of this, if I could. You know, the captain could—and slavery is always different in the city than it is on plantation. I wouldn't say it's easy or anything. The captain could've said you served me when I needed you, so goodbye. Good old human nature. \"Give me half.\" If you ever take a tour, the Gullah tour of Charleston, South Carolina, they tell this whole story. He goes into the carpenter business. He's got a shop. He's a block from the governor this way. He's a block from the mayor the other way. He could have had a semi free life, with semblance of freedom. He's free. He wants freedom for others. He goes to the church where that idiot killed these seven people a few years ago. Was it the Bible class, the AME church? He spreads Rufus King's speeches among the literate people.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4347.0,4486.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: The whole thing fails. I spent a whole day at Yale a couple of years ago. David was with me. Was the revolt as big as the whites made it out to be or were they scaring themselves to death? What was going on is the Haitian thing with the blacks having taking over there ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4486.0,1801.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":", so the whites were really on edge. A quote of one of the guys to be strung up said, Mr. Vesey told me about Senator Rufus King. I just hope he does a better job than we've done. A writer from Charlestown sends an editorial to Rufus King. The writer said regarding Rufus King, you don't like the system, why don't you leave? You agreed to it in Philadelphia two years ago. And then he drew this [showing hangman drawing] and there's our King at the end of the line. This is Rufus King writing that he got that in the mail. So there's the impact.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=1801.0,4552.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: He was hated.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4552.0,4552.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Oh my God, yes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4552.0,4553.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: I guess it's not surprising.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4553.0,4559.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Now a couple more things that I want to show you just across the way [walking to the Governor's Room]. The problem is this is a different time period. This is still fixed like 1800, 1825. John lived here, as I said, from 1827 to 1867. This is the way this room looked until just recently; we put the carpeting in. But Kelsey is still not finished. When she is finished, this is the way it's going to look [showing image].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4559.0,4597.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So wait, what is?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4597.0,4602.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Wallpaper is very expensive and she said we haven't got the money yet, but she said it'll be done. And there'll be reason for people to come back and see us again. She's very big on that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4602.0,4623.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So you started working here, you said 30 years ago?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4623.0,4628.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, Labor day of '89. Mary and I were doing a morning show in Detroit. And I said, you know, we've only been working together like this for several years and the sound is just great. But radio is changing so much. I feel like I'm on the outside looking in, and I think 30 years is enough. She says, great. We can move back to New York. She gets the job restoring the carousel at Prospect Park. We had lived on the other side of Prospect Park when I was doing a show at the old WMCA studios. Here's a kid from Chicago, living in New York. Studios were across the street from Carnegie Hall.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4628.0,4680.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: That's like a dream.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4680.0,4683.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: You bet. So I come in and I said, look, I'll find a place in Park Slope, and then we'll figure out what we're going to do with our lives. I go to meet Tupper Thomas, her boss, one of the great New York characters. And she said, Fox, if you wouldn't object to a free apartment, I could save you some time. I said, if you're wondering if I'm paying attention, you bet, baby, what does this mean? She said 10 minutes before you came in, the commissioner of parks of Queens called. They restored the Rufus King Manor house and they're looking for someone to live in the apartment. I said, Rufus King, the Founding Father? She says, hell, I don't know. We come over here. I told you two and a half million dollar restoration. This had been one big open room [third floor], except the bedroom there is where John, the governor and Charles, the president of Colombia [Interviewee's note: slept during their college vacation summers]. There have been three really important people that have slept in that bedroom. [Interviewee's note: Fox points to himself for folks too slow to \"get it,\" get it?] Okay, so. The Commissioner shows us. It had to be a month before we could move in. Walks us around outside. I am 50 years old. He says, are you interested? I said, Yeah. Shakes my hand. He says, \"Take good care of the place, son.\" I never signed anything. I was never told what to do. I don't get paid. I don't have a job, and nobody asked, do you work or anything else? This apartment is so tied up to the rest of the house, it's almost automatic: You should have someone that's here a lot because of the connection, everything. People say, well, how does this play out? And I tell them: \"The talented people are in the second floor in the office. They're stuck with me and whatever needs to be done. We get it done. This is the best deal the city has ever had. And for sure, it's the best deal I have ever had.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4683.0,4810.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So you actually don't have a salary you're saying?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4810.0,4814.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: No, I have the greatest apartment in the world. To be able to live in the home of Rufus King and work to develop that legacy, which never should have been lost.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4814.0,4826.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. So do you give tours to people other than me?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4826.0,4829.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. And I go out and do speaking engagements.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4829.0,4834.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So you're kind of like the resident historian?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4834.0,4843.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. I could name at one point and—a couple of beers under my belt and I could probably still do it—I can for sure name every president. This is all American history [pointing to books in library]. I've read at least one book on every president, every vice president. I used to know the names of those that ran, lost, and the vice presidential candidates of those who lost. I will tell you my experience where today they talk about memory not being that important. Do I disagree? I went through the Lutheran school system: Memorize: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua...on and on. Memory is like hooks in your brain and you'll put things on them, and all of a sudden things fall into place. And without that, your mind is kind of helter-skelter. And, so I consider that—I went through Lutheran grade school, high school, college and seminary. [Interviewee's note: Plenty to memorize. Thanks Martin.]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4843.0,4902.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yeah. And so when did you first encounter Rufus King? Did you learn about him in school?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4902.0,4907.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Oh my goodness. No, no. Listen, I was a terrible student. No, I learned because of my love of the presidency. I just started big, you know what? My parents never read. Kids learn these children's stories. I don't know any of them; my mom never read to me. I was always a reader. And, so I decided, well, you get to Rufus King and he's twice vice presidential [candidate]. Competition was too stiff. In 1804, 1808. And then he was out because whoever was running [Interviewee's note: 1812 -Dewitt Clinton], was a hack politician and Rufus wanted nothing to do with him. And then he ran for the presidency [in 1816]. So he's well known for those of us that are students of the game. And even at that though, not that well-known. There was something I wanted to show you and I want you to sit at the desk to get an idea of what it's like, but we'll do that as we wrap up [Interviewee's note: The View from Fox's office on King Park - it is beautiful].\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4907.0,4968.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Do you want to talk about how Jamaica has changed in your time here? I don't know if you read my questions, but are there any buildings, businesses that you appreciate architecturally, historically or just fulfilling basic needs? Yeah. I know that's a big question.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4968.0,4990.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, when I came here because I was married, I felt that I was going to have to answer to the in-laws. So I came out a couple of weekends and I walked around and at that point, the mix around the house was 60% Hispanic, 30% African-American and me. And it was always interesting. I'd had some friends come out that were white. A white minister had me preach at his Presbyterian church - he visited. And the first thing, do you feel safe here? You know. Well, the fact is the neighbors around here had said, if you were coming two years earlier, we would have told you not too.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=4990.0,5039.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: It was after the crack.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5039.0,5041.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: The cops used King Manor as a stakeout and the pagoda that we've got over in the corner, that used to be in the middle of the park with a basement, and that was drug headquarters. And when they restored the park in '91, they moved the building. I said to them, look, this is a KISS park, keep it simple stupid. There's one of these things in Central Park, and they're moving it to the Hamptons. Why don't you give them a two-for-one special? Because people that are entertaining today, they've got their own thing on the corner with an electrical tie-in and everything. Or they'll be out here, close to Jamaica Avenue. That's never been used for anything. You've got the homeless people just using it. But it's there. The cops told me—I said, look, I'm out a lot. I see a lot of Broadway shows. So the cop said to me, look, if you see something coming home once or twice or something, the officer said, don't bother with that. If you see a regular thing happening, we'll be there. I'll put out a thing at the office at 103rd. And if you call from King Manor and you're calling, they'll know that there's some reason for them to come out. Well, that worked out perfectly. Now we're back to a few more problems because of the city and what's going on with people not working and all that stuff. It's nothing. It's nothing compared to— just though we had a guy shoot and kill a guy here a couple of months ago. But this, it's a whole new ballgame what we've been able to do. That's true of even South Jamaica, which was really the problem child. Jamaica got a bad name because of it. That was the problem child. And now they've got all levels of housing over there and York College has helped and things like that. It's been great.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5041.0,5166.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: A couple of restaurants that I really like, Sangria's on Sutphin and O Lavrador, it's a Portuguese restaurant that's about a block from the expressway and Richmond Hill, and the owner calls it Richmond Hill.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5166.0,5190.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: He doesn't want to call it Jamaica?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5190.0,5192.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: You know, that's still true. I'm sorry to say, reputations go way beyond what they're deserving of—both good and bad. I've got friends of mine still think the subway is dangerous. You've got more of a shot at getting robbed in your house than you do the subway for heaven sake.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5192.0,5209.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: You can get robbed on the Upper East Side.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5209.0,5211.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Did you know. Now this is crazy, not only the 120th year of King Manor; on the 19th, which is Saturday. Charlie Redell. I was 51 and he was 15. And on a Thursday morning [Interviewee's note: 19th - 1990] early, we got tokens, put a token in and we didn't get off until we had rode every inch of the New York subway system. Not just going from one end to the other local, but forwards and backwards, express. 66 hours and 45 minutes, but who was counting. Now, I hadn't seen Charlie in years. He and his mom, Holly moved out to Seattle and he's now in Bellingham [WA]. A fella calls me; he's a bloke from London. He said, I started writing a book on train travel, but I found out about you guys. You're going to be a chapter in my book. He's calling me just as we're coming up to the 30th anniversary, next thing I know Charlie's writing him a four page thing as to what our trip was like.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5211.0,5283.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: The line that the F train uses now, that's 63rd street, the F used to go along with the E. It was only partially finished and it was the Q train. And so it would go up 63rd and it would go to Roosevelt Island as it does now, and then Queensbridge was the next stop. It's the only stop in Queens. Okay. So we're right in front of the train. The ride's over. The motorman opens the door and he said, you guys are having the time of your life, aren't you? I said, yeah, we really are. He said, are you on any kind of a schedule? I said, no, we're not spoiling it to set any record, we're going to just do this. He said, let me show you something. He walks us past the station on the little walkway that's in the tunnel. I would say 50 feet. Door, downstairs. I'm in a Fellini movie. There's a tunnel with the lights on, no tracks. I said, Charlie, did you ever follow through with that? He said, what? I said, you ever asked what happened? He said, what happened? He says that was 30 years ago. I said in about two or three years, it's going to be the tracks used by the Long Island Railroad to go to Grand Central Station. He said 30 years! Takes a little while to get these jobs done. Isn't that a panic?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5283.0,5367.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: They were preparing, I guess.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5367.0,5369.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: And then a guy from Cigna photography in Paris, he said: \"I want to catch up with you guys every so often. We're going to do several stories.\" This was just before Christmas, everyone's looking for a good story. So we have all kinds of promotion and publicity from around the world. It was just incredible. And the motormen and conductors, after the first few hours when the first story got up, so many of them said, do you want to use our bathrooms cause they're better. And if there was any money, food on tables or stuff, help yourself, they were so thrilled. All this good publicity for the train's and the people moving them! So the guy from Cigna, I called him and I said, Chuck, I think we're going to be at 71st Continental about, let me say two and a half, three hours. He said, have you eaten anything? I said, no, we're fine. He said, no, I'm fixing you a meal; don't eat anything. I think for once I was somewhere where New Yorkers really paid attention. We come up to the station. He had gotten a table from the MTA. He had put a table cover on it. He had candles. He had fixed us chicken and potatoes and without going into details, a complete meal. It's rush hour, all these people. Here's a guy, 50 years old and this kid, 15, sitting there, eating, having the time of our lives. When it's all over, we're at Charlie's house and a great shot that they got for the newspaper. And we're watching the news and the broadcaster says, 51 year old guy that's got nothing better to do than spend three days riding the subway. And then he puts his arm out and he says: \"Get a life!\" And I thought, you know, I have a pretty good life. Thank you very much. Yeah, we had a terrific time.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5369.0,5481.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So do you remember any other?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5481.0,5484.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: So there's this Portuguese restaurant and what's important for us is that Rufus met the Portuguese ambassador and they became the best of friends. And Rufus had two wine cellars and they would get together and compare notes. So not only this Portuguese restaurant, but they've got a liquor store next door that emphasizes the Portuguese culture.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5484.0,5508.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: I take tours of Jamaica. The old theater was the biggest Loews as I recollect.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5508.0,5514.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Yes. The Valencia, you started telling me about that. Do you want to tell that story? That's a good story, how the church took it over.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5514.0,5522.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: This guy started out in Brooklyn and he built a church and the congregation got overwhelmed. So he put up another church and he was thinking of building a third one. So the folks over here, they didn't know what to do with these big theaters. They didn't break them down the way they finally did and it was not in great shape. And brought him over and showed him 2,200 seats, something like that. And they said, what do you think about this for your church? And guy said, I can't begin to afford anything like that. One of the fellows said, you got a buck? He said, yeah. Fella says, let me see it. He said, \"It's yours.\" And so he used the bucks, he had quite a few bucks, to restore the theater.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5522.0,5573.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: And it's nice that he kept the original decoration. Right?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5573.0,5578.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: I've got for the tour several examples of some really interesting architecture, buildings. And they don't begin to be used the way they were when they were built.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5578.0,5593.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: What else is on your tour? Do you have the Merrick theater? Some of the facades are really beautiful.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5593.0,5598.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Oh my God. Yes. That's a really great example. And of course the J train ran all the way down to 168th street. A long tour, I tell folks to take off when you've had enough, and I take them all the way down to where the president [Trump] was baptized.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5598.0,5614.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: What was the name of the church?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5614.0,5616.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: First Presbyterian Church, 164th street. Grace was founded in 1702, then another church [Reformed] that is now a performing arts center, but the congregation is still having services, that also goes back to 1702. The Presbyterian church went back to the 1660s and it used to be on Jamaica Avenue and they moved it around the corner and put it in the middle of the block. Those Scottish people, you could make money, not with the church, but with a business and stuff. So they moved it. And they have a picture of this horse pulling this church building. And the horse looks like it's saying, \"I knew I should have joined the union.\" [laughing]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5616.0,5664.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: There's an actual photograph?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5664.0,5666.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Along the walls of Long Island Railroad. There is also an older picture of King Manor and several other things.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5666.0,5673.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Oh, I should look at that. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah. This was a real town center, I guess.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5673.0,5682.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Jamaica was County seat at one point. And Rufus and Mary, I mentioned this to you, they honeymooned out here. And then when they came back from England, they found this place and it was great. They had their farm and that's what they wanted, but they were also very nosy. So they had downtown Jamaica right across the street where they could get their Starbucks and their New York Times. All right. They didn't have a Starbucks. Don't spoil their life. Let them believe as they want to believe.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5682.0,5714.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: And the road here had—you could get in the carriage and every so often there'd be a log and you'd pay so much and they would swing it and you could continue to go. And that's the money for the upkeep, but that's also where you get the word \"turnpike.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5714.0,5739.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Turnpike. Oh, aha.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5739.0,5743.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: It's a freebie. Yeah. And they would go through Brooklyn, down to the ferry and end up on Fulton street of Manhattan.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5743.0,5755.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Oh. So they'd take a ferry from Brooklyn to lower Manhattan. So it was a convenient location. Close enough to Manhattan.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5755.0,5764.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, it being the County seat. I mean, there was just lots of things going on at that time.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5764.0,5773.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: And you were saying that the family is basically buried in Grace Church next door.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5773.0,5780.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: There's the three oldest sons. Edward ended up in Ohio and Frederick, not sure, not here. Way in the back of the church yard, they've got a very fancy thing, which Rufus King's burial spot is not. And I found out that the people at the church giving the tour said that it was Rufus King. It was like Rufus King's great grandson [Interviewee's note: his name was Rufus King, of course]. They didn't bother to read what the sign said. And there's not only a James Gore King with all the family [I-V]. There was a funeral here about two years ago, somebody related to the Kings.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5780.0,5836.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: And they had a plot ready in the cemetery for them?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5836.0,5839.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah, now, Charles' son, named Rufus King, of course again, he was named the Ambassador to the Vatican. Wait a second. Yeah, he was at the Vatican. And what we do know is that while his father was over there to visit, he died. We don't know what happened to his body. Now he was president of Columbia and so they decided to put the tribute to him right alongside his son, Rufus King. But without stating it, that really confuses things because in this cemetery we have Rufus King here and there and everywhere else. I do a tour of the church yard once a year. I mean not with all this virus, but hopefully soon again.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5839.0,5905.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Do you do it with the Queens historical society, or just through the approval of the church?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5905.0,5908.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: One of our activities. That's where Rufus is buried and Mary is buried next to him. You can barely make out Rufus's tombstone. We have to replace that. We did replace his son's, the governor, which is right in back of him. And the funny thing is there was a newspaper article about the fact that they used to serve drinks to the men at funerals, a glass of wine for the women. And the last time liquor was served at a funeral was at the funeral of the honorable Rufus King. So I tell people that story and say, you see, he died in the nick of time. [laughing]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5908.0,5962.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Well, this church was built. It's an Anglican church.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5962.0,5973.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: You're talking about Grace?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5973.0,5975.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yes. But, initially on that site, there was a Presbyterian Church. And so the Anglicans just figured because Anglicanism is the state church, they can move in. Well, they sure got that story wrong. There was a fight. It took 30 years before the Anglicans finally took over. They went to court, both sides accused the other, just all crazy stuff that human beings can come up with. Meanwhile, Rufus had been a Congregationalist. He goes to Harvard and Christ Church, which is still there across the street [from the campus]. He decides he's going to be an Anglican. And the president of Harvard had to write his father to find out if that was okay. Things seem to have changed somewhat on the Harvard campus these days. Rufus was first in his class at Harvard. With the Revolutionary War, there were four Anglican churches, including Grace [in the Jamaica area]. And the rector said, I don't think I've got 25 members from among the four. Everyone switched to something else. And King and Mary both remained Anglicans. King said, it's not just the teaching that I think is on target. He said, I really appreciate the culture and the liturgy and all of that. But he was one of the few that stayed here. The second church burned. The first church they tore down and built a bigger one and Rufus was much responsible. He went to downtown Manhattan. He had been a member of Trinity Wall Street and he said, come on money bucks we're trying to put up a church in Jamaica. We need a few bucks. That's the one that burned down in 1861. And by the end of the year, the cornerstone was in, and John led the way [in building the current church]. And boy, what a tremendous influence he was, just period. And when you go into the church, if you look to the left, there's a statue [tribute] to him. And there's two Bible passages, but what's fascinating that the passage of Micah in the Old Testament, you are to follow the Lord, you are to be loyal. You are to serve people. It's a fabulous passage to use as a tribute. I'd never seen this before. They put that passage in reverse. All the prophecy, is the future. It's what you're going to do. It's what's going to happen, [Interviewee's note: the challenge for your life. They sized up Governor King as one taking the prophet Micah seriously.] They put it in the past tense. That's what he did with his life. He fulfilled that passage. And then the second passage, everyone thinks the book of Revelation is so difficult. It's one of the easiest books. It's just that people know so little about any of it. There are two passages, one verse and chapter apart, 3:11, [Interviewee's note: that explain the whole direction of the book]: \"Hold fast what you have that no man takes your crown,\" and Revelation 2:10, \"Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give you a crown of life.\" [Interviewee's note: The second passage is the way they used as a tribute to the governor.] And those are the passages: Old Testament, New Testament. For its anniversary, I think 200th, they added the part that is now the altar, the chancel.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=5975.0,6194.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: So which church was this?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=6194.0,6196.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Grace.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=6196.0,6197.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLinda Ganjian: Oh, Grace. Yeah. So there's still a congregation.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=6197.0,6201.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334/transcript/31547/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nRoy Fox: Yeah. Oh yeah. This is kind of interesting. It's now basically an African-American congregation, that's very apropos.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/46939/file/120334#t=6201.0,6211.55265"}]}]}]}