{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/kd1qf8k47p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Waldo Jeff Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFull Interview Summary\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eWaldo Jeff was one of the first counselors in the Queens College SEEK program, joining its staff in 1967, one year after it was founded. Topics in the interview include growing up in the Lafitte Projects in New Orleans; attending Michigan State University and Colorado State University, where he received his BA in physical education; and his involvement in the Modern Civil Rights Movement starting in 1962. He briefly discusses his decision not to attend the march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama on March 7th 1965, which became known as the infamous “Bloody Sunday”.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAs a counselor in the SEEK program starting in 1967, Jeff provides his perspective on how SEEK became an innovative model for helping students of color succeed academically. For example, SEEK created a daycare center on campus to help students with families. Jeff also discusses Bill Sales, a Director of the SEEK program during Jeff’s time as a counselor, and Sale’s effectiveness in working with the student body. Jeff discusses external forces that he feared would shutter the program, including that students in the program would be associated with the Panther 21 (a group of twenty-one Black Panther members who were arrested and accused of planned coordinated bombing and long-range rifle attacks on two police stations and an education office in New York City in 1969). \u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College SEEK History Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1940-1975 (Active at Queens College 1967-1975) (temporal)","New Orleans, Michigan State, Colorado state , Atlanta, Queens College, Queens and Brooklyn, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2019-07-25 (created)","2019-08-20 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Waldo Jeff (Interviewee)","Obden Mondesir (Interviewer)"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eFull Interview Summary\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eWaldo Jeff was one of the first counselors in the Queens College SEEK program, joining its staff in 1967, one year after it was founded. Topics in the interview include growing up in the Lafitte Projects in New Orleans; attending Michigan State University and Colorado State University, where he received his BA in physical education; and his involvement in the Modern Civil Rights Movement starting in 1962. He briefly discusses his decision not to attend the march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama on March 7th 1965, which became known as the infamous \u0026ldquo;Bloody Sunday\u0026rdquo;.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAs a counselor in the SEEK program starting in 1967, Jeff provides his perspective on how SEEK became an innovative model for helping students of color succeed academically. For example, SEEK created a daycare center on campus to help students with families. Jeff also discusses Bill Sales, a Director of the SEEK program during Jeff\u0026rsquo;s time as a counselor, and Sale\u0026rsquo;s effectiveness in working with the student body. Jeff discusses external forces that he feared would shutter the program, including that students in the program would be associated with the Panther 21 (a group of twenty-one Black Panther members who were arrested and accused of planned coordinated bombing and long-range rifle attacks on two police stations and an education office in New York City in 1969).\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/246/small/Screenshot_%28121%29.png?1625068425","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - Jeff_Waldo_by_Mondesir_Obden_07252019_PT1.mp3"]},"duration":6488.1895,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/246/small/Screenshot_%28121%29.png?1625068425","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/246/original/Jeff_Waldo_by_Mondesir_Obden_07252019_PT1.mp3?1617716429","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":6488.1895,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Interview Transcript - July 25, 2019 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Speaker:\u003c/strong\u003e This call is now being recorded.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=0.24,1.889"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Great, so now we have the phone call recorded. And I think we're going to talk for about an hour or so and see how we feel afterwards. Would you be OK with continuing the interview at another date?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=3.09,19.913"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=21.48,22.48"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. Great. So I'm just gonna give the slate today. So today is July 25th, 2019. My name is Obden Mondésir. I am with Waldo Jeff. And this oral history is being collected on the behalf of Queens College, Special Collection and Archives and is on the subject of SEEK, which was incepted since 1966. And basically to talk about the history of SEEK and those that were a part of it. Cool. And I guess the first question I want to ask is, could you tell me the year that you were born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=22.95,69.359"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I was born in 1940.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=70.6,72.37"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And could you tell me about where you were born and the first house that you grew up in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=75.58,85.591"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e  I was born in New Orleans, Louisiana, in 1940 and my first house was in the Lafayette Projects, which was Galvis Street in this, in the La Fete Projects, in New Orleans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=86.69,104.87"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you tell me about your parents?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=109.22,111.23"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e My father was Morris Jeff. My mother was Delma Jeff. My father was the director of the New Orleans Recreation Department, the first black in City Hall appointed in 1947. My mother was a housewife initially until I got to high school when my mother returned to school and graduated from Xavier University in 1960. My father graduated from Xavier University in 1937, received a master's degree at the University of Michigan in 1945, and was a school teacher and consultant in the Board of Education in New Orleans for 40 years, and was the Director of Recreation from 1947 also for approximately 40 years, retired and then died in 1993. I have one brother Mars Jeff who received a PHD in social work from Tulane in 1973. I have a sister Jolene Jeff, who has a master's from the university in New Orleans, was also a physical education teacher in the city in New Orleans. And of course Waldo Jeff himself. That was my immediate family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=112.13,206.93"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess what do you remember about your neighborhood-- What do you remember about your neighborhood in New Orleans?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=211.6,224.249"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I can tell you many things about my neighborhood, but growing up in the projects at this time in 1940, the project was a diverse place that was made up of people who were teachers and other professionals during segregated New Orleans in 1940. My father was already a teacher and a graduate of Xavier University at the time. What I also remember was the diverse group of people that grew up around me, that have done very, very well. As I remember the projects, if you will, was just made up of a wide group of people, many who were middle income in the projects, but also very poor people. And there were a lot of individuals who had, you know, who were veterans, etc. But the project was black at the time and was not an integrated project. We were a black project and we did very well in terms of growing up. We all went to primarily two schools, either a Catholic school called St. Peter Claver, which was an elementary school. And we went to Joseph A. Craig's school primarily, which was a black elementary school in this in the section of Tréme, New Orleans, which was-- is still known now as one of the primary areas in New Orleans that people knew about near the area of the French Quarter. What I remember about the projects is that we all were identified with our schools. We had really primarily black teachers, many who had master's degrees from major schools only because until their late 50s and early 60s, you could not get a master's degree in a historically black college in the state of Louisiana. And because it wasn't legal, they hadn't provided for master's degrees in the HBCU. And so many of the people like my father got in master's degrees from the University of Michigan or Indiana or the New York schools,  NYU, Columbia, Cornell and in places like that. But we primarily had the same kind of history as most kids. We were in the Cub Scouts, we were members of the YMCA, we were involved in music, primarily in my family. And my father was a serious music guy. My brother was a great musician, you know, started with piano and ended up being a state champion in music, in the sousaphone, etc. I played drums in a band until I got to high school and became an athlete. But my sister was on a stage in New York, as you know, as a ballet dancer at the age of three, which was important as in my family, because we had a very good musical and dance family that was big in New Orleans. New Orleans culture was based on entertainment and dance and music and cuisine. So those were the kinds of things that happened in my environment. The project itself created so many great people that have gone on to be judges or lawyers or PHD's or whatever in my environment. And so growing up in the project was not the typical stereotype project that you hear about these days, but created any number of effective people who went on to do some things never expected. For example, Sidney Barthelemy, one of the neighbors that lived a couple of doors down from me, became the mayor of the city of New Orleans. My brother was the director of the Welfare Department for 25 years. My father was the first black in city hall and there were any number of college graduates, effective people that came out of the projects that I grew up in. I stayed in the projects until I was eleven years old. And then my father purchased the house, which was about six blocks away. We were-- he had exceeded the income levels supposedly for living in the projects. And so we moved to our first house, you know, six blocks away. But that was pretty much the um background initially for me. I went to Catholic school for three years until my father decided that it was important that we go to public school because he was a public school teacher. I graduated from McDonogh, forty-one junior high school. I was the class president at the time. And then after graduating, I went to Xavier Prep High School, which was one of the two black Catholic high schools, but one of the great because it was an all-girls school, an all-boys school and coed school, which is the one I went to. I became a student there, graduated high school in 1957, was the captain of the football team. And I went to Michigan State University as a freshman, transferred to Colorado and went to Colorado Junior College, graduated as an all-American football player, went to Colorado State University, graduated in 1962, and then went to Atlanta University and got a master's in social work, went to the University of London School of Economics on the Marrow Fellowship that. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=224.91,653.162"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess, could you tell me about your experience at Colorado State?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=654.57,658.739"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I can tell you a number of things. One is that-- one I was an athlete, so I went beyond a football scholarship. I met many of my closest friends obviously in life there, or took a few of them who were there, went from Michigan State with me when I went to Trinidad Junior College, had gotten injured at Michigan State in football, and so I wasn't going to be able to make the team in spring practice. So I went to Colorado where I had a scholarship. So I then went to Colorado State 1959. My roommate, or roommates all graduated from Colorado State. But in 1962, I was the only black graduate at the Colorado State University. And then at the school itself, it was a great experience. It was not what I would call a very diverse experience, because at the time we had only 40 black students totally at the Colorado State University. And you know, many of the students that were there, at least males were athletes more so then they were just the basic students. The experience was a great one because I got to be involved with any number of people. And what I would call for myself, primarily a diverse experience with students and also my own involvement with faculty and whatever. It was a, you know, a really educational experience for me and I was very close friends with a lot of members that were different for fraternities and sororities. I was never a part of a fraternity myself. We did not have black fraternities at the time at Colorado State. So I wasn't involved in that. But I was working in any number of jobs while I was there and one of the jobs that I had was refereeing in fraternity football games, which I got to know many of the students that were in the fraternities, both men and certainly women that attended their games. I worked in the student union as well. And so I knew a lot of people from my work at the student union. And then I had a kind of diverse experience at Colorado State. Many of the things that I'd learned about working effectively across racial lines obviously happened with me in college, but I had a lengthy experience with that kind of involvement for, you know, for quite a long time, not just at Colorado State, but elsewhere as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=659.97,850.44"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you give me an example from Colorado State?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=851.25,854.52"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e You mean working in diversity, if you will? Well, I think that ah, my experience primarily as I recall Colorado state was-- my experience in football was obviously one in which I work with a lot of different teammates from across, you know, from across the country. So the athletic experience was always one in which I worked closely with teammates to who were diverse. Well, I'll say black and white because it was always important if, you know, at least on a college level to be able to join up and to work effectively with people who came from different parts of the country and who came from different experiences themselves. I had primarily three black roommates and we lived in a house and one of my roommates also was Leo Reed, who was from Hawaii. So I had three black roommates as well as one from Hawaii. Well, two of them were from Detroit, one was from Hawaii, one was from Indianapolis. So I had a-- you know, I had an interesting group of guys that I lived with in a house that we ran. You know, we ran a house. We didn't live in a dormitory, did that for, you know, for three years, actually. And so the experience itself was a good one. I mean, it was very early in the game, which I didn't realize that, you know, the late 50s and early 60s, we were a pioneering in education, which was a shock to me that coming from the Deep South in segregation and the experience that we had had led to believe that it was going to be so different in other places in finding out that you were experiencing not only the same kind of discrimination but that the student in other parts of the country weren't even getting into the university, which was different for us in New Orleans, because it was an expectation that we will go on to college after high school and the historically black colleges were obviously available to us. I never wanted to attend a historically black college because my intention from the time I was a young kid was to go to the University of Michigan where my father had gone. So I never had in mind at the time going to a historically black college because I wanted to do something bigger than just simply go to another black school growing up in New Orleans and obviously in segregation during those years. My faculty at Colorado State University, I remember some of them were very, very fair and friendly with me. Others were simply, you know, not people who cared whether I was in their class or not. or even knew me as a student. It wasn't very different from most large schools, but there were some individuals that got to be very close with me. And one I remember and still probably never will forget. One of my history teaches Dr. Fernis, who was one of my favorite teachers, a white male history teacher, graduated from Yale and was one of the best teachers that I've ever known. And of course, I had some great teachers in a number of schools on the way. So I had a good experience both at you know, at Colorado State University. And, you know, I remember at Trinidad's State Junior College where I had a great experience for the one year I was there, you know, and I only went there to play football, but ended up having a great academic experience and a great learning experience with people from different parts of the country. So my educational experience at Dillard was very helpful to me and when I was able to do later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=860.959,1026.53"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e May I ask, what did you study at Colorado State?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1125.197,1130.099"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I graduated in Physical Education. And my minor was social sciences. My objective was to be a college football coach. And when I graduated, I was expecting that I was going to get a graduate assistantship to coach and one of the schools. But I didn't get the graduate assistantship that I thought I would get. And I had been promised some things that didn't materialize. And so I ended up going to the same school as my brother, who told me that he thought I should go to school at Atlanta University, School of Social Work with him because they had a major in Social Group Work and Community Organization. And that's when I ended up doing and it turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made because I had had, you know, such a broad experience in working with teams and groups. And then I ended up with a great experience in community organization. I attended on a fellowship from Atlanta University, to London School of Economics and, you know, had a year in social welfare administration globally. And that was a, you know, a great experience for me. And then in or after that came back to Atlanta University, got my master's in social work, and then went to New York to work in social work initially.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1131.09,1243.17"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So I guess. Before I ask about your experience in Atlanta, what made you decide to go? Aside from the football scholarship, were there any other reasons why you decided to go to Colorado State?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1244.07,1261.17"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I- Well, the reason I-- one, I had initially been offered a scholarship to the University of Colorado, and that was why I went to Colorado. When I got hurt in football at Michigan State in spring practice, I was not going to be able to well, I was able to come back and try again and make the, you know, to make the team. But I had, you know, realized that there was no reason for me to stay at Michigan State when I had a scholarship offered to me in Colorado, as well as I had a very close relative in Colorado that had wanted me to come out there previously. So I decided I was going to go to the University of Colorado, where I had been offered a scholarship before I went to Michigan. And then, so that was my reason for accepting the, you know to, that was my reason for going to Colorado. And then, you know, I couldn't-- I had to sit out a year if I had gone into another four years school. So they encouraged me to go to community college or junior college there at the time. And I did that where I was also on scholarships. So I didn't have to pay for school anymore after that. And so it's primarily the reason why I went out there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1261.77,1353.18"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What position did you play in football?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1353.181,1354.378"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Half-back. Yeah, I was a Half-Back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1355.058,1356.087"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So going back to...you, graduate from Colorado State and you decide to go to school in Atlanta for social work. Tell me what it was like moving to Atlanta after being in Colorado.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1362.36,1379.17"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e It was easy. There were a lot of people that had moved to Atlanta, one of the things about growing up in New Orleans, especially in the Deep South at that time. A lot of the graduates from my high school in New Orleans went to Atlanta, which had a reputation for being a great, you know, great city for both civil rights and employment. And so people like Andy Young, who was a very close associate of mine, who was my camp counselor when I was in the YMCA camp. You know, he would, you know, Andy Young, the former mayor an advocate of civil rights, with Martin Luther King, was one of my neighbors and also my camp counselor in New Orleans. So I knew any number of people who are ready in Atlanta. That was pretty much one of the things that people did. And the school of Social Work, obviously was known to me from people who had graduated from there when I was, you know, when I was a younger person. So I knew people, you know, in Atlanta. My brother had gone to the School of Social Work from his job in Chicago. My brother graduated from Xavier University in New Orleans while I was in school in Colorado. And then any number of my friends were going to Atlanta as well. So it was an easy place for me to go to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1381.17,1489.519"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And so you're in Atlanta and you've mentioned that there is like a lot of civil rights movements happening. I guess tell me more about the atmosphere, what it was like being in Atlanta in the...At this point, it's like the early 60s?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1493.219,1513.529"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I started there in 1962.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1515.0,1516.552"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1517.79,1518.79"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I can tell you this much. The civil rights background there was I think that they had a lot more focus of publicity on civil rights in Atlanta. I don't know that Atlanta was more difficult if you will than New Orleans was. What the benefit of Atlanta was was that the SDLC headquarters was in Atlanta. And of course, Martin Luther King was the-- by then the minister for Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta at the time. So I-- you know, that was part of the environment. Ralph Abernathy, who was King's associate, his church was on the corner of, you know, of my school. So my dormitory, I come out of my dormitory and walk a block. And I was at Abernathy's church. So in terms of the background of some of the civil rights groups,  there were primarily maybe I'd say three major civil rights groups in Atlanta at the time. The Student Non-violent Coordinating Committee was there at the time with Julian Bond being a part of that. And you know, John Lewis and, you know, Stokely, in Rapp Brown in a number of, you know, a number of civil rights icons. And, you know, of course, we had a major, you know, black institutions in Atlanta, which was another thing that made a great environment to go to school on my campus, Atlanta University campus was also Clark Atlanta, which was, you know, one block away from our campus. And then right on the other side of the campus was Morehouse College. And then a half a mile away from us was Morris Brown College. And then there was the I can't even recall the name of the seminary. But where many of the ministers went, that were national ministers., you know, in black America went to the seminary there, also in Atlanta. So it was a great educational environment for historically black colleges, and obviously for black students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1521.84,1706.769"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What was one thing that's intriguing me is like: you have all these institutions around you, entities and people like what was the social life like while living in Atlanta and going to school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1708.64,1725.25"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Almost for me, going from Colorado State University, if you will, to Atlanta was like going to a picnic. It was almost as if there was no pressure on me anymore from being the only black student in class or for being seen as unique in, you know, in my classroom or, you know, having to worry about being called on every day, because that was the only black student. And so I got called on every day in every class. And, you know, in my previous experience and then getting to Atlanta University, where I was just simply another black student in the class, and that wasn't an issue anymore. The real issue was, you know, paying attention to what it was that I had to do in terms of my academics and then being a part of the student body in terms of its social life if you will. But also being a part of the civil rights movement, which also was something that I had been limited to in my living in New Orleans because of my father being a civic you know minded-person, and being on the stage in New Orleans and very visible in civil rights, which I couldn't do, because my father might get terminated if I was you know, I was arrested in the civil rights movement, which was easy to do since my best friends were the leaders of the civil rights movement in New Orleans. So I was always a person who had to do many of the things like organizing sit-ins, or organizing the Freedom Riots or something like that. My friend was the vise president of the National Group of the Congress of Racial Equality. So I had that experience and was very close to, you know, people who were leaders of the movement in New Orleans. But I had to be a person that was not on stage because I couldn't get my father terminated from his job. So that was part of the experience I had growing up in New Orleans. My brother and I were basically in the same kind of situation. So it's going to Atlanta was great for me and being able to be a part of the social life of Atlanta, but also the civil rights movement in Atlanta. Being a student body leader, as well as being able to be in what we crowd ourselves at the time, and I think probably were right at what we were the best school of social work in the country, certainly for black students. So that was a great experience for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1726.88,1906.07"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And when you-- what kind of coursework were you studying at the school in regards to social work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1908.27,1918.1"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e As I remember, I was studying obviously, you know, courses like psychology, like working in community development, you know, community organization courses. I was taking, you know, courses in casework. You know, courses in group work, you know, doing internships in social work. I had an internship at the YWCA, which was across the street from Morris Brown college where I was working with both younger kids, you know, elementary school students as well as high school students and adult groups in social work. So, you know, I had a broad experience doing internships as well as taking, you know, just the basic courses in how to work with, you know, how to work with people and work with groups and different kinds of community organization courses that we took. So those are the things that I recall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=1920.33,2005.009"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And...When we spoke last week, you called Bill Modeste, and one of the things you mentioned was like this story about John Lewis?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2010.3,2032.539"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2033.57,2034.57"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you tell me more about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2035.59,2037.599"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I got to work with John Lewis as well as a number of the folks in working on the preparation for the Selma March. We were all working with the Selma March at the time. All the schools had a representative or representatives that were going to be part of the Selma march. And so one of the things that was great about Atlanta was that when ever there was a demonstration of any kind, whether it was a downtown department store or whether it was a local hotel or whatever. We had organizers in each of the student bodies so that there was always somebody that was organizing the Spelman students, the all-girls school, Morehouse College, which was an all-boys school, Atlanta University, which was where I was in the graduate school, and then, of course, Morris Brown, which was an undergraduate school where John was a student, and then the seminary. So there were at least five different schools that were always a part of the major demonstrations that were taking place in Atlanta or with Atlanta students. So at the time of Selma, we were all organizing as a group and meeting in preparation for the Selma demonstration. And what I remember more than anything else was that before the initial Selma march, the one in which John was beaten up so bad. We were all going to be a part of that Selma march. And what happened was that the Lyndon Johnson, who was the president at the time, called the Organization King's Organization, SDLC and told Joseph Lowery, who was their board chairman, that they weren't going to be able to provide the National Guard for us in terms of protection on the march, and so we had meetings in which we had to decide whether or not we and the other groups were going to continue in the march or whether or not we were not going to involve the students in that, because so many of the students were obviously going to participate. But once there was no police protection, you and now talking about a different kind of march, which you could be guaranteed that we were going to get physically beaten up by the policemen in the in, you know, and the others who were basically now going to be able to operate uncontrolled in terms of a nonviolent group of folks marching across the Selma bridge. We tried to talk John out of participating in the march since the Martin Luther King group had backed out, which they never tell you about even today. That group was not in that first march. The only people in that first march were members of the SNCC group that went to the march, but primarily the other groups of students in Atlanta were not involved in the march. And certainly not in the numbers that we would have had, had they not backed the National Guard out of the march. So we all did not participate in that first march. And that's when John got beaten up. And because John got beaten up, because John basically refused to not participate in the march and did so without police protection. And then obviously, you know the scene if you've seen it for how many people that really got crushed in that first Selma march, which they celebrate now, but which many of us who were there at the time didn't think was something to celebrate. You know the obvious cruelty that happened, and the number of people that were, you know, hurt for life and had, you know, skull fractures, as John did, you know, on the bridge that day. We all participated in the second march and completed that march, which also had a lot of incidents, but not at the march itself. Post march there were a number of incidents after trying to get back to Atlanta from the second Selma march, which was a whole nother story. But that experience obviously was a part of my, you know, my life and the kind of things that were part of being a student in the Atlanta environment. And we've participated in the marches post-Selma that led to the Voting Rights Act in 1965. So it was a different environment in Atlanta where there was a lot more support, even from the Atlanta Constitution newspaper, where Ralph McGill was the editor at a newspaper. And there were a number of things that went on in Atlanta socially in support of the civil rights movement that was certainly clearly different from the city in New Orleans, to the state of Louisiana, and still remains that wait for, you know, even today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2038.92,2435.02"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. So, I mean, the most talking about is the Bloody Sunday, which was March 7th. That was the first one, and then you mentioned that there was a second march. And in what year do you--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2438.17,2455.469"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e The second march was the continuation of the first march after Bloody Sunday. The second march was when the the the National Guard was now you know, protecting you know, protecting the marchers in the second march. So when the march continued after bloody Sandy, then we all were participating in the second march, which was completed in Montgomery.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2458.75,2488.849"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2491.75,2492.75"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e See, that first march never completed, the first march was ended, you know, on the bridge. Bloody Sunday. And that's where John was you know, obviously, you know, beaten up and got the fractured skull and whatever. And still celebrated today for the beaten that he took along with others on that bridge that day. But depending on your outlook or your psychology, the question is, was that something to celebrate or something to question the, you know, question whether or not it made sense to be continued, to be beaten up in behalf of civil rights when everybody knew damn well that you were gonna get beaten up. And we always to continue to sacrifice our bodies in order to have our rights in America or whether or not it was something that, you know, has been, you know, continually honest. I still have a big problem with being a victim of police brutality in order to fight for rights That's the psychology in America is still very questionable for many of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2495.79,2581.639"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So in regards to the events on March 17th, there seems to me like-- I guess my question is what were the discussions like leading up to that event on Marth 17th? It sounds like there was like a lot of apprehension.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2582.64,2600.719"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't think there was as much apprehension as there was, you know; when we were organizing initially for the march it was with the understanding that, you know, like most of the major marches, the National Guard would be available to protect the marchers. We were going to have a, you know, obviously a national demonstration. But that, you know, there was initially the assumption that the National Guard, you know, or the U.S. Army was going to protect the marchers. That in most of the major marches certainly after the, you know, after the Freedom Riots the expectation was that the marches would be protected. You know, certainly after Birmingham and any number of things that had happened previous to that, by the time we got to the Selma march, the expectation was that the National Guard would be available to protect the marchers. We're talking about a progression of civil rights demonstration from, you know, from obviously the early '40s, early '50s to then, which was as I recall, in 1964. So we're talking about after a decade of pretty visible demonstrations and civil rights across the south. It was expected that most marches that did occur by then would be protect-- the protection that the marches was going to be available. But when King, I mean, when Lyndon Johnson said they weren't going to have the protection, then that made it certainly much more difficult for us to convince students that they ought to risk their bodies, you know, going to the Selma march, because everybody knew by then that debt was now going to be the fiasco that it turned out to be. It was almost like, you know, volunteering to be, you know, physically destroyed. Either, you know, just to be hurt for life or to be killed. You didn't know which one. But it was like to convince hundreds of students to do that. Wasn't certainly as easy as it was gonna be previously when they knew they were going to have police protection to be a part of the march.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2604.2,2761.32"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, do you remember what it was like hearing about it or like watching it on the news?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2762.0,2768.05"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh. Well, I remember everything about it. And certainly, you know, I mean, it turned out to be exactly what we had told  John in others that it was going to be. We knew it was going to be that it wasn't like it was a surprise. It was exactly what we expected would happen. And in preparation for that, we weren't preparing to be crushed on the bridge the way it ended up that Sunday. Because when we backed down it and marched with our student bodies, we backed out because we didn't think that that was going to be okay for all of the students who come into the universities from across the country and were willing to participate in demonstrations with civil rights, but not willing to be beaten up or, you know, crushed by an, you know, a you know, a  legal group of people who basically were defending white superiority rather and defending the American way of life, which was to be able to demonstrate, you know, for your rights. So no I remember everything about it. And it was simply that that was not what we were preparing for. We were preparing for a peaceful, non-violent march to Montgomery to advocate for voting rights and for implementation of the civil rights bill that had been passed. You know, obviously previously, so that the march itself turned out to be the kind of fiasco that occurred in Birmingham without the numbers of people that obviously showed up after the first march. Once police protection was provided for the second march, the march was completed with larger numbers of people coming from all across the United States. And, you know, it was what we had prepared for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2769.65,2905.459"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So, there's your time at Atlanta and then [stuttering] you go to London for school as well?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2908.29,2919.139"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I got a scholarship from-- I got what we had-- they had on the campus two Fellowships annually, called the Charles Marrow Fellowship. It was for student-body foreign travel and study that was given to two students annually. And I got one of those awards in1963 and I went to the London School of Economics with my fellowship called the Charles Marrow Fellowship from 1963 to 1964. And I was in a program called International Social Welfare at the London School of Economics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2920.1,2971.94"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What was it like being-- go ahead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2973.44,2974.532"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I was there for one year, I was there from September to August of 1964.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2978.32,2983.27"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess could you tell me what it was like, you know, going from Atlanta, United States to England?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2987.58,2996.219"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Actually, it wasn't as difficult for me as I expected it to be because I had quite a good experience, but obviously a previous experience that was a, you know, a learning experience in terms of travel. So I wasn't as you know, as frightened by the fact that I was in another country. And then going to England, it was easier because I didn't have to speak another language. So joining up in England was not as difficult as I expected. You know, as I expected it to be. It was actually a very easy place to join up in. You know, it was new to me, but I ended up ultimately with a few, you know, folks that ended up being roommates of mine. Initially, I was alone. I lived in an apartment alone. You know, with some folks from Britain. And then I moved into an apartment with one of my roommates from Philadelphia, you know, John. Walt Johnson from Philadelphia was there for three years and was getting a PhD in anthropology. And then one of my other roommates was a white male from Nottingham and then two others from Scotland. So I had a, you know, I had a very good experience in terms of, you know, of the guys that I lived with. And then I lived-- then I was very close friends with many of my classmates in the International Social Welfare Program who came from all over the British Empire. And that probably was one of the greatest experiences of my life in terms of being able to have classmates that were from there West Indies, all over the West Indies, whether that was Jamaica or Trinidad or British Guiana, you know, places like that. And then the folks from across the other parts of the British Empire, either Pakistan, India. Or, you know, Africa. All over Africa, Nigeria or Ghana or Biafra or South Africa, all of those kinds of students were in my class in the course students who were, you know, from London you know, in all over the British, you know, [mumbling] all over Great Britain that were part of the class. So, you know, great experience for me in terms of, you know, learning about International Social Welfare, but also working with and being a part of a group of students that were just from all over, you know, all over the world. And that was a super experience for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=2998.92,3224.469"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. So. Now, I feel like understanding all of your experience from like growing up in New Orleans, to being in Colorado, and being a part of the civil rights movement in Atlanta, and like experiencing like black internationalism in England. Could you walk me through how you found yourself in New York and started working in SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=3226.02,3258.39"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I yeah, when I graduated from Atlanta, you know, coming back to Atlanta University, obviously from London, I had another year. And then, of course, there was that experience we talked about in the civil rights movement, but also my you know, completing my last year. After having done an internship, one I did in New Orleans actually, when I came back from London, I went to New Orleans for six months to do my internship and social work, went back to Atlanta and then graduated in June in 1965. I went to New York with my instructor, who was the Community  Organization instructor, Doctor Morris Eisenstein, who ran a community center in New York in Brooklyn. And who was, you know, who was the professor of community organization in Atlanta University. He wanted me to become the director of the teenage work camp that was run by the United Community Centers Organization, that he was the director of. And I took this job to running this teenage work camp, which had a special federal project going at that time to include fifteen juvenile delinquents of different nationalities, if you will, into the camp. And so these fifteen juvenile delinquents were involved or included in this teenage work camp of about 60 campers. And so we took these juvenile delinquents into the camp. And that was a different kind of experience as well. But I ran that teenage work camp, which was for 10 weeks in the summer. And I directed that camp which had, you know, any number of other counselors. In a matter of fact, there were, I think, three or four of my classmates that joined the camp with me and then -- I did that. And then after that, they asked me if I would stay and work on the project, which created two years or so contract from the Office of Juvenile Delinquency, the federal Office of Juvenile Delinquency or whatever. And I ran that program for two years. I went back to the camp for another year. And then I left after that. When the next summer came, you know, my third summer  I had moved on to work with the welfare rights organization in Red Hook in Brooklyn. So when I finally took the job at SEEK in September of 1967, I had worked at the United Community center with two years in Brooklyn, in the East New York section of Brooklyn. And then I moved to work for the welfare rights organization for, you know, for a summer, and then I went to Queens College in September 1967. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=3260.22,3505.889"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess before we talk about your experience at SEEK in 1967. I'd love if you could briefly in your own words, describe what is SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=3507.99,3518.3"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, sure. Well, basically, the model of SEEK was developed by Shirley Chisholm, who was a representative, first of all, in the state legislature in New York, and then she was elected to the representative U.S. Congress. But Shirley Chisholm developed the model of high education course for students. You know, at SEEK, I think the thing that I remember about SEEK is initially as I think now, even after all these years, I  really believe that the model of SEEK really should be remembered as the model of higher education for students of color in American education, you know, for 50 years. There's no question in my mind but that the SEEK program, which was instituted and almost I would call it maybe experimental at that time, was really hard to not appreciate when the City University of New York City or the history of The City University. And its impact in New York City basically was a free university. So today, as you hear all the politicians, particularly those who in the Democratic primary right now talk about a free university, historically, I don't remember when the City University of New York began, but my understanding is that the City University of New York was free, period into the early 80s. I don't know when they instituted, you know, when you had to start paying for the City University of New York. But for all of those years that the City University of New York was free, minorities weren't included and were excluded on the basis of their high school education. And what I always found to be unique in the north, and especially from my previous experience in Michigan State and Colorado State, was that there was no expectation on the part of the minorities that they were going to be able to go to college because they were deprived of a college education by their grade point average in high school. And it was always assumed that the majority of minority students would not be able to go to university because they weren't going to be able to get in. And there was really and still is a question mark for me: how minority students are not expected to be able to perform at the same level as white students in the same environment? And so many of the minority students simply didn't get in school because they didn't have the grade point average. And grade point average is determined by your instructors, and obviously nobody talked about it that way. But you obviously were being discriminated against in high school, and in elementary school if you weren't expected to get the grade point average that was required for you to be able to go to college. So then when I, you know, joined the SEEK program, and the program was one in which the structure was developed for students to be one accepted, and to receive tutoring and remediation, and then financial aid in order to be able to be helped to become matriculated students. The assumption was that minority students weren't prepared to be able to go to college, which was in many cases really not a, you know, a legitimate assumption, many of these students were prepared to go to college. They simply hadn't gotten a grade point average or were expected to get the grade point average to be able to get in college, and S.A.T.'s, and A.C.T.'s; and those kind of tests, obviously weren't emphasized at the time in terms of students being prepared for college. So that our students in many cases were as smart as your regular students. And in many cases, were great students in other subjects besides math and English. And so the remediation program that was part of their being accepted into the college was really just something that was another item that, you know, that the continued the discrimination against students of color. So that, when I got to Queens College one of the things was immediately surprising, was how, you know, how great some of my students were. Some had not been able to finish high school and then some obviously finished high school with lower grade point averages then was required to get into the school. But everybody was subjected to the same level of remediation, which was a bad assumption and which was one of the things that I immediately started to question as to why were students having to go through a structure of remediation that was initially requiring them to literally be able to-- being in school and required to be there for six years before graduation. So that the remediation program that they had to adhere to initially took about two years to complete, to become a matriculated student. You had to have 60 credits with a C, but 30 credits with a B, 12 credits would A, as I remember, in order to become a matriculated student. And so in addition to that, we had the remediation program of English,  math, and science in order to be able to get through to remediation program in SEEK.And then you went on to the college, but you had to be able to have, you know, the 60 credits to matriculate with a C average to be accepted into the university. So that there was the obvious structure initially created and then the experience once we got here of what it was really gonna take for you to become a graduate of the university.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=3521.54,4026.659"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And then-- So that's a description of what SEEK was and that it was started by Miss. Chisholm. And, I guess, what were your initial impressions of Queens College when you got there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=4030.58,4048.089"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, when I got there, it really wasn't what I would call a hostile environment. It wasn't really much different from the environment that I had experienced in my undergraduate work at Michigan State and certainly at Colorado State. I think that the assumption was that the minority students were not really expected to be there. And Queens wasn't the most social environment in the city in New York anyway. Queens itself was probably one of the whitest boroughs in the city of New York. I think that Brooklyn had more people of color than Manhattan did. Of course, Manhattan had Harlem you know, and another part to the city that were predominantly people of color as it continues to be today. But Brooklyn had more people of color than anywhere in the state of New York. And then, when you got Queen's, Queen's had areas like Jamaica. and you know Jackson Heights, and Elmhurst, and a few places like that where they were people of color, But Queens probably was the whitest area of New York. And then, of course, going to Long Island, you had less people of color. So it wasn't the most social environment in the city you know, for a university. But at the same time, it wasn't really as much hostility in the environment as there was you know separation in the environment. We just were not accepted as an integral part of the, you know, of Queens College. And to a large extent, the lack of what I would call diversity or diversity management in the high schools themselves. And in the social-political environment in Queens simply meant that at the university we were there, but we were treated like we were foreigners as opposed to simply people of color that were from the same areas of New York or were integral to the city of New York just as white students were. But the faculty was primarily, you know, and almost exclusively white. And in many ways, it wasn't any different from my experience in the Deep South, where, you know, when schools begin to integrate in the 60s, it was almost similar that way at Queens College. And so our you know, our faculty in SEEK was primarily African-American. And then we had, you know, a number of whites that had been there from the beginning. And it began with a white staffed SEEK program primarily, and then included, you know, blacks's as people like me got you know, got hired. And we begin to build a staff of primarily, you know, a lot more people of color. But it was not as hostile as it was, just simply, non-diverse. So I mean, I didn't feel out of place when I got hired, but it was not very much different from being, you know, on staff in the Deep South, you know, separate but equal kind of philosophy. More so then, you know, an integrated school or an expectation that we were supposed to be a diverse environment. It was more separate but equal type of environment at Queens College. Just, because, you know, it looked like you know, other parts of the Deep South.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=4049.95,4335.51"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And could you describe your position at SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=4338.26,4344.21"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well my initial position at SEEK was-- I was a counselor. I was hired by Joseph Mulholland, who was the director of the program. Joseph Mulholland was a former probation officer in the, you know, the city police department or, you know. He came out of that environment and was hired, as you know, was hired to run the SEEK program initially. And there was a counseling staff, a  tutoring staff, and an administrative staff. And so I was part of a counseling group, as I recall, the initial group of counselors was about five counselors when I got hired. We had a temporary director of counseling. I can't even remember Cade's last name, right now. She was the director of counseling when I got hired in 1967. And then we had a number of other counselors who were hired. I remember Alice Icos was here. You know Beverly --can't even recall Beverly's last name-- Beverly was there. There's about five of us there initially when I came. I don't remember how many students we had initially, but each of us who was on the staff in 1967 had approximately 50 students. So we had 50 students and we, you know, we had a number of tutoring staff that worked with the teaching staff, and then we had a financial aid director. And all of his students received financial aid. And I think if I'm not mistaken, financial aid in addition to your, you know, your books and whatever you could get $25 to $50 a month in financial aid. So we had a financial aid staff and we had teaching staff, tutoring staff, and administrative staff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=4346.27,4510.669"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Ok. And tell me about you. So you in 1967, what was it like? Tell me about the student body, like what was it like working with the students as a counselor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=4515.679,4528.039"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, to be honest with you, it was probably one of the great experiences of my life in terms of my, you know, my student body; and you know, the student body actually at, you know, at Queens College in general. We all had a diverse group of students. But what I remember is I had a-- you know, a varied group that went from students who immediately-- that you started working with them you couldn't understand how anybody would not have worked with them to become college students. I had 'em all over the place. They went from-- several of my students that had gone to community college. So I had some that had already been enrolled in, you know, in community colleges like John Jay or, you know, some of the other schools, community colleges. So I had three that, you know  were basically, as soon as I started working with them. I knew were A students. And so, you know, Selma-- Selma Johnson I remember, Faith Hunter, and Betty White were gonna-- Betty White, I remember, was a nursing student and I think Faith was a nursing student at the time. Both of them were A students, right away. And you know, got out certainly from Queens in five years. Selma was an A student right off the bat. So I remember them like it was yesterday. Those 3 were A students from the beginning. I had other students that I knew would be solid students and certainly would be able to graduate; it wasn't even a question from day one whether those students would graduate from college. I knew that if we just simply provided the environment for them to be able to be treated, you know, equally on the campus, they would graduate. So I had 50 students that, you know, personally that I, you know, some of them I still talk to today. You know, that, you know, have been a part of it. I haven't talked to many of them in years. But one I talk to all the time. One of my first students, Delores Moae's, just retired from teaching in Brooklyn. And to be honest with you, I didn't have any reticence about most of my students being able to perform at Queens College. The real question was, could we change the environment? Could we change the expectations? If we could change the structures so that our students would have a fair chance to not only be effective students but to graduate because of this structure was insufficient for success when you were expecting students who many times were working before they came to college because of their economic status. And we had a structure initially where it was pretty clear that most of our students would never be able to graduate before six years. And six years for that group of students just seem almost incredible. When a student who was barely making it financially and got to come to school is now going to have to be there for six years. At that age, with many of them haven't already been involved with, you know, with marriage and everything else and being able to go to school for six years. So we had to change the structure, obviously, of the school in order for our kids to be able to graduate. But the second thing was just working in the environment, changing the story from 'we don't want you here or don't believe you want to be here,' to being able to accept that the very student body is a part of the university. So that environment, you know, was obviously very, very apprehensive about our being there. But that was pretty much what it was like in the beginning. The other thing was-- I would just say, the low expectation of people about, you know, about these kids is if they were somehow not capable of being college students. You know, we still have that kind of, you know, limited diversity in the American environment today. The low expectations of minorities is still incredible. And to think that because of your color, or because of your ethnicity, you're not going to be able to operate in an environment that could, you know, simply educate you, you know, to those things that are required for you to be successful. It was just, you know, a different kind of a place in a different kind of an environment that permeated with low expectations of people of color. And that was the hardest part of, you know, I've been in that environment to begin with. And for me especially, I had seen this stuff in so many different places. I was just incredulous around how people of color were not expected to be able to perform nowhere that I had ever been. And I could never understand what the hell this all about, you know. I mean it wasn't as if Queens College was any different from any other place I had ever been. The low expectations of people of color was in every environment that I had ever operated in. You know, I have seen so many people so highly qualified with so little expectation of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=4528.85,4982.07"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Was-- while working at Queens College are there any examples that come to mind of experiencing how low these expectations were?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=4985.83,4995.85"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well I-- yeah, I mean, I think that primarily it was no matter whether the student was in the university let's say; and they weren't very many outside of the SEEK program. But one of my students that was from my neighborhood but also was one of my closest associates now even, but I was one of my you know, one of my students that wasn't in the SEEK program was Philip Berry. Philip Berry eventually became a member of the board of high education for the City University in New York. And Philip was one of my students from my Brooklyn neighborhood. Philip became, you know, vice president of the student body at Queen's and then went, you know, after graduating in 1972, went to Columbia, got a master's in social work from Columbia, went to work for the Urban League, and then I hired him when I became, you know, an executive at the Procter and Gamble Company. So I brought him to Procter in Gamble after his work at the Urban League. And then he left Procter and Gamble, went to work for Colgate, became a vise president at Colgate and retired from the Colgate Company, and then started to do, you know, work in the community in the City University in New York. So there were any number of students like that that were, you know, that later became very, you know, important in the city, in New York. Felipe Luciano, for example, who was one of the initial rappers who left Queens College, became a young lord, but who then became one of the major disc jockeys in the radio business in New York and is now a minister in New Jersey as I understand. But Philippe was one of the first rappers in the city in New York and became very, very popular. Was of that order of-- what's his face that went to Fox News, can't remember his name now, but, you know, became one of those level people. And a lot of our students graduated and are doing well across the country. So I think the SEEK program, you know, in my opinion, once we revised the program so that our students were able to actually take whatever remedial courses and we reduced the number of those remedial courses and then were able to get matriculated in the university, graduated from SEEK I mean, from Queens College, just like other students. And since I was not there, as long as I expected it to be, because I had gone into business five years or six years, I guess after I started at Queens College for the six years approximately that I was there. I thought that we had moved the program to a different structure and a different level of expectation. And so, you know, Modeste would have to tell you and Jim Fisher and others that were there a much longer time, they would have to tell you what their normal production was. But in my opinion, we created a program that I really felt should be a model even today for developing minority students and helping them to be able to complete college in, you know, and contribute across the country and get away from this model of low expectations of minorities that dominates America.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=4997.96,5286.62"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. And so I guess what we're going back a little-- not going back, but you come to Queens College in sixty-seven, you're a counselor. We've discussed some of the students that you had. And one of the things is a point of interest and something that you talked about last-- on Monday was there seemed to be like a potential riot and there was also the SEEK rebellion that happened later in the 60s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5289.49,5327.64"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Well, I think basically what happened was we realized after a while. When you start to look at our student body and the structure that was in place when I started at Queens College, it was obvious to me and to other members of our faculty that the structure of the SEEK program was inadequate for what we really were experiencing you know, in terms of when the program started. The obvious structure of the program was based on the reality that there were not minority students of a high percentage in the City University. So we had a free university that didn't have minority students. The obvious, you know, reality was there were minority students or certainly students of color, if you will, from the beginning of the university or obviously whenever, you know, they started getting students of color. But, you know, in the 60s, you had less than 5 percent of the city university student body, you know, of minority students. And for me and for others of us, that was crazy. How in the hell, can you have such a high percentage of people of color going to school in public schools in the city univers-- I mean in the city  New York, and such a low percentage of them being able to, you know, to go to high school in the so-called integrated or fair high school and then so little numbers of them being able to qualify to go to college. What are we doing in the high schools that, you know, would, you know, cause such a large, you know, such a large number of students to be incapable of attending college? So it wasn't just their economics that was causing this. This was major discrimination going on against people of color in the high schools of New York. And so we then create a structure that is the structure to somehow get larger numbers of students into the university. But we then still believe that they are not prepared to be there because they didn't have an 80 average. Well, we didn't raise the question as to why didn't they have an 80 average from the high schools. What were we doing in the high schools? The assumption was they were just incapable of being in college and they needed remediation. That it was them that was the problem, not the system itself. And so once we started to see the quality of students that we had-- another student that I missed telling you about who got a Ph.D. in romance languages that was one of my students was Al Santiago. I don't even know where Al is you'd have to as Bill Modeste. But Al was teaching, as I recall in the City University in New York, had gotten a Ph.D. in romance languages. Herb Phoenix, I understand also. And there were several, I just don't remember all of these guys now. But there were any number of them that got PHD's that were in our program. So that we had high-quality students who just had never been accepted to college from the beginning. But once they got, you know, a couple of the remedial courses and got some decent instructors that were working with them, breezed through the university just like other students. So, I mean, I think once we started working on changing the initial structure and the-- you know, the expectation or the stereotype of what a student of color was; we were able to begin to get a normal environment for the SEEK students. But I think that the initial structure of you know, remediation initially, but limited remediation rather than extensive remediation. Limited remediation, tutoring, counseling and financial aid that was a format for success for students of color. And that format, you know,-- which I don't know what they did with it, you know, in terms of what exists now-- but continuing to use that kind of format was a very, very helpful format for kids being able to be successful at the college level. And then when we went to the so-called open admissions and then, you know, really did not continue to operate with the kind of structure that was working. When they went to open admissions they just basically did not continue to use the kind of structure that was basically successful for our SEEK students and got away from that kind of thing that was working like we do in so many social programs in America. When it works we want to get rid of it because we think we don't need those kinds of supportive structures anymore. But the SEEK structure initially, you know, was inadequate because if it was not based on the reality of the, you know, of the student body and once we got, you know, to working with the kind of courses and student body that we had, we were becoming very successful. And as far as I'm concerned, when I left in 1972, we were pretty much starting to get the kind of format that was going to the base for how you run a successful education program in higher education.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5330.36,5772.579"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Cool. And--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5777.149,5778.149"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I wanted to tell you one more thing, which, you know, I told Modeste the other day when I finally get to talk to him. We had-- because of my experience at Queen's colleges as well-- One of my student, Patricia Green, had a baby in her, you know, in her second year at Queen's College. I started babysitting the students, you know, her son myself. And then obviously there were other kids that started to have babies in the program. But I created, because of her the second daycare center on a university campus in America. Wayne State University had a daycare center on campus. And we developed the second daycare center in the history of the university system at Queens College. That was also a product of the SEEK program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5778.31,5848.38"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And where was where was the daycare on campus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5849.42,5852.189"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e We built the building, you know, at least a you know, a building on campus initially where we were using as a daycare center. And my understanding is that daycare then became a product on main campus. I can't tell you that, you know what happened later because I wasn't there anymore. But, you know, Bill Modeste or others might be able to tell you that. But we had the second daycare center I know on the camp, you know, on a university campus in America.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5853.03,5890.02"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Wow. And what year was this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5893.39,5898.579"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e The daycare center had to be implemented between 1972 and 1975. I was working with one of the architects to develop the center who was one of my associates in my business in New York. And he was working with them on the development of the center. But I can't tell you when it was done. I do remember that they had hired a director, you know, to run the center. And I, you know, any number those people that, you know, I knew are gone now. But somebody obviously ought to be able to look up, you know, who ran the center and then what to happen later on when we moved from the SEEK daycare center to the university having a daycare center. I'm assuming that the university still has a daycare center now. If they don't, I don't know why they wouldn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5902.24,5982.119"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e That's something that we'll look into. I wanted to come back to talking about this daycare center. Which you said was between '72 and '75. I'd love to go back to 1960. In chronological order, you have the open admission strikes in 1969. And before that we have the push to have Mulholland removed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=5984.479,6013.074"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Well, Mulholland's contract was coming up or something, but I thought that in terms of a minority program that we needed to be able to have minorities, you know, in the leadership positions of the SEEK program, particularly since we did not have minorities involved in, you know, on the main campus at Queens College. And so when, you know, it was a question of whether Mulholland ought to be rehired or whether we ought to have a person of color as the head of the program. I supported along with any number of our students, we supported the hiring of a person of color to be the head of the SEEK program as opposed to Mulholland continuing in that position. So it wasn't a question of whether or not whites are to be in the program, but it was a question of whether or not whites are to continue to lead a program of students of color. So we were looking for leadership to be people of color leading the program of people of color. So that was pretty much what the issue was. It wasn't basically that Mulholland wasn't a person that had, you know, had a legitimate right to a position at Queens College, or that he had done a lousy job of running the program. It was a major issue of the basic assumptions about people of color in special programs that were in place for them. And so, you know, as we grew, we realized that special programs were the order of the day in terms of implementing or including people of color in the, you know, on the campus. But as we learned, it was a question of if people of color belong here and have a right to be here, shouldn't they also be able to lead their own people in terms of leadership? I mean, and I had learned from obviously the civil rights movement, that in order to be able to have an effective movement, you had to have the inclusion of whites and people, you know, and different people of color, in, you know, in any integration movement. But that in order to be able to develop as a person and to develop as a leader, that whites can't continue to lead us when we're capable of leading ourselves. So that concept was basically one that we got to, you know, with the SEEK program. After the initial years of being led by whites, wasn't it now time for us to be led by people of color? And that was what happened with regard to the initial movement, not only the structure in terms of administratively, I mean academically in terms of what courses were remedial courses and when would we get to be able to focus on matriculation as opposed to remediation. And the same thing was when will we be able to administratively be led by people of color rather than the initial whites that were the, you know where leaders of the program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6017.86,6284.431"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. Mr. Jeff, I have-- it's 12:58 in New York. Well, I think it's the same time for you. I have to head to the archives and cover for my coworker because someone always has to be in the space. I think this is a good stopping point. And would love to continue this conversation next week at the same time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6285.9,6312.81"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. Next Thursday's what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6313.85,6314.857"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, actually, let's see...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6316.74,6318.48"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, it should be August 2 the 2nd it looks like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6318.95,6320.777"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. It's gonna be-- no August the 1st.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6321.94,6323.158"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e August the 1st. OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6325.919,6326.919"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Actually, I had to check my schedule because I'll be going to Austin. But once I secure-- like. I know exactly what time I'll be where. I'll give you a call and say, hey, would you be available at Thursday at 11:00.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6327.09,6344.04"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6345.06,6345.899"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So again--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6345.9,6346.9"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Give me-- spell your last name for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6347.43,6349.829"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mondesir, m o n d e s i r.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6350.74,6354.119"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. Wait hold on, spell it again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6357.17,6360.457"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e M o n d e s i r.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6361.649,6363.688"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. All right. Got it. All right. OK, so you will call me back and let me know when you would like to set up another time to talk?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6364.66,6376.189"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, and I would just like to say that, like, I've really enjoyed talking to you up to this point. Like it's been a very amazing and I'm excited to continue the conversation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6376.63,6389.59"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, that's fine. I'm glad we had the chance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6390.44,6392.59"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, great. So you'll hear from me soon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6392.92,6395.589"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. All right. Thanks very mu--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6396.34,6397.507"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Wait! One more thing. I have to ask this question during the recording. Are you okay with us using this interview or putting this interview up-- making it available online?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6399.01,6410.979"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, it's fine. I don't-- I mean, obviously, the only thing I fear is that I don't want to make a mistake or make-- you know, obviously some assumptions that you know, we're not on the same page and you don't necessarily know enough about me to know, you know, where I would be coming from. But, you know, since we don't know each other for a very long time, but I am pretty consistent in terms of, you know, who I am or what I've been and so I just make the assumption that, you know, if I do make the mistake or get misinterpreted, that I just have to live with it. I've learned to do that and so many other situations so that I'll just have to live with you know, what I say. And you know, and how that's interpreted. But other than that, I can't say that I'm very apprehensive. I'm not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6412.09,6471.609"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. I think you're fine. But I just had to get that in the recording. But I have to run a little bit. But thank you again. And you hear from me soon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6472.28,6482.89"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. Thanks so much. Have a good evening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6483.62,6485.43"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e You, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6486.04,6487.04"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246/transcript/24617/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111246#t=6487.31,6487.73"}]}]},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - Jeff_Waldo_by_Mondesir_Obden_08202019_PT2.mp3"]},"duration":4847.6995,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/245/small/Screenshot_%28121%29.png?1625068436","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/245/original/Jeff_Waldo_by_Mondesir_Obden_08202019_PT2.mp3?1617716429","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":4847.6995,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Interview Transcript - August 20, 2019 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Speaker:\u003c/strong\u003e This call is now being recorded.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=0.24,1.939"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Almost, Mr. Jeff?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1.94,2.675"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=5.233,6.233"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. So I have the article. Let's see. So the one that I was talking about was with Bill  Sales. It is October, 27, 1971, and, oh, the people that are doing the interview are Joan Adams and Wayne Reed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=8.46,38.041"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, Joan Adams and Wayne?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=40.93,41.93"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Wayne Reed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=44.42,45.42"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. I remember, Joan. All right. Yeah. OK, fine. All right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=46.7,50.409"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e   So yeah, I guess we can start from there. Today's date is Tuesday, August 20th, 2019. My name is Obden Mondesir, I am collecting this oral history on the behalf of Queens College archives and Special collections and archives I'm with Mr. Waldo Jeff. Is  It OK if we use this recording in the archives as well as for any online publication?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=79.98,87.519"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Yes. As far as I know, and I can only tell you what I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=87.52,91.4"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And then the last thing we spoke about was the removal of um Mr. Mulholland and why that was important for the SEEK program. And then now we're kind of catching up on, um. We've kind of talked about the line that happened after Mulhollandas replaced and I mentioned an article from The Voice of SEEK, which was a student publication, and. Here they're talking about Bill Sales. So I guess if you'd like. Who would you like to discuss like. Was it like having Bill Sales director of SEEK in college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=92.15,146.309"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't I don't recall any discussions relative to having Bill SALES as director of SEEK, but at the time that we were discussing directors are we were both discussing the possibility of individuals inside the program. And also individuals that were at other institutions. For example, when Ralph Lee's name came up, who was a a dean at, at Morehouse College. I don't recall exactly how Ralph Lee's name was  even introduced us or whether or not he had submitted an application. I don't remember. But if Bill's name was being discussed as a director, I would understand that possibility because it's a question of whether or not he would be an effective director vs. being more effective in his role as a teacher in the program. I can understand that discussion. Bill, Bill was trusted by a significant number of students and I can understand his name being discussed at the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=147.78,250.19"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Cool. What was Bill like at the time? Or like how did you know him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=254.28,259.291"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, primarily, I knew him as a very effective instructor, but I also knew him as being very supportive of the student body, being given more opportunities to take courses and to eliminate this high degree of remediation. I think, ah, right now as I think back about the program in particular into in today's current environment and I think the low expectations that college and also many of the many, many portions of the university had about the quality of our students Bill Sales and I were pretty much on the same page. I think Bill had a very strong impact on the student body in terms of the quality of his students, but also the quality of his teaching demonstrated that our students were able to take on to college courses and be successful in ways that the many other people in the university had no belief in. And so I think his favourability with our student body had a lot to do with what he thought about the quality of our students. And he was quite an effective instructor in social sciences at Queens College. So I under--, I remember that particular part of it, the fact that Joan Adams was interviewing him, Joan was a member of my counseling staff, was also a graduate of Columbia and had a lot of. Faith in Bill. And the fact that Joan would be interviewing him and questioning his ability to be a director. She would have been one of the better people to interview him. That's for sure. But I don't I don't remember the the, you know, that particular situation in terms of is being interviewed for the directorship.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=260.86,336.859"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e MM","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=413.12,414.12"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I do know that there was some real question about whether or not a person like an outsider, like Ralph Lee would be an effective director come in from the outside. But also, we didn't have any idea what kind of person he was. On paper, he certainly fit the qualifications for being a director of special programs at Queens College. But in terms of his, his philosophies and certainly in terms of his thoughts about our students, the disadvantage of a guy like him coming in was he did not have a reputation that was was one that we could trust. And it turned out that he did not end up being a good director. He ended up being as ineffective a person as we could possibly have chosen. He was more with what he was saying about the questions being raised with Bill Sales as to whether he could be an effective director. So this was the same question that we would have to say were the kind of questions that Ralph Lee, was being as well, and he turned out to be the opposite of the person he claimed to be. So when he got chosen as the director and yet he was not he was not the person that he claimed to be. In his interview, we made a serious mistake in going in that direction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=415.85,534.059"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK And then um, I guess, you guys, Lee's removed, Sales is in. You say you he was very effective, um as a director and um  I guess describe like, what was your experience at SEEK  while working with Mr. Sales?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=539.14,568.268"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Of my experience in working with him was that he was, you know, a quality instructor and there were times in which he and I, had to battle whether or not we were on the same page. I think that he had relationships with other faculty members that he had had as a student at Columbia that he brought to Queens College. And so are in, in my building relationship with Bill Sales. It often was a question of whether or not he would trust me vs. whether or not he would trust his previous relationships with people who had attended school with him at Columbia. And so we were always, you know, testing each other's dependability or Loyalty to the student body. And that that went on for as long as I was at Queens College. But in those days, just a mistake uh, in  any particular decision could have a huge impact on us. So it was always that our relationships were tenuous situation that we would find ourselves in. But I always felt that this was I was able to keep my relationships with him positive, though many times I had to keep my guard up because I had to do so much with different people. You know, at that time, because there were always people who were not the who they said they were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=569.6,691.994"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Ugh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=692.138,692.6"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Many times. Many times you, you realize that there were people who were adversarial to our students and to our faculty, even though they claimed to be loyal to our philosophies about education. And we had to be very careful with who we, you know, who we trusted or who we talked to because you never knew what the what these people's motivations were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=692.601,725.779"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you give an example of this, like adversarial attitude that some people had?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=726.86,734.109"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I sure can. I, I, I think that there were people in the program, both students and faculty, that were not loyal to the African-American student body. Or to the program itself. And that gave you the impression that they were but they really were working in behalf of others who were anti- the SEEK program. And I can't define, you know, what these people's relationships were. But one of the other thing for example, even with students in the program, there were a number of our students who had been in prison at Rikers Island or, you know, that were on probation and that Joe Mulholland had gotten into the program. And it was  uh, it, it certainly was positive for bringing in a number of the students who had been in in in in the criminal system previous to attending school at Queens College. But on the other hand, Mr. Mulholland held that as ah, as a leverage point for him. In other words, with our students getting stipends and our students getting opportunities to get into courses, etc., etc., Muholland would use that as his leverage against the program and certainly his leverage against people like me who were seeking to have leadership be led by strong minorities who were in our faculty and in our school, in our counseling system. And to use the students against people like me was one of the things that Mr. Mulholland did, you know, we, you know, things things we use. Like what what amount of money do you get for a stipend? The $50, as I recall, was the the highest amount of stipend you could get. And most of those guys who had come out of the prison system were getting a $50 stipend versus most of the students might be getting somewhere between 25 and 35. So they were always, you know, things like that, that were used as leverage against the members of the faculty that were more supportive of removing Mr. Muholland as the director. And so there were there there were just there were just things that happened. Even, even I recall and it still remains with me today is that I was supposed to be at a meeting in Pittsburgh. When when we had a riot brewing on the campus and when I found out that students were being set up to be in a riot with the white student body, I did not go to to my meeting in Pittsburgh because I knew if we had a physical encounter with the white student body and if property got damaged and if students were hurt physically, that that would lead to arrest and possibly federal intervention. When property was being damaged at Queens College. And I was just adamant about not letting our students get caught in that kinda setup so that people would, you know, be arrested and possibly, you know, get, you know, a long prison sentence for this destroying federal property or being in encounters that would be classified is federal, federal crimes. And so we have, we always had the concern about our students going overboard in terms of their encounters with the student body or with faculty at Queens College. And, you know, there were times in which students were throwing property around in in the classrooms that wasn't necessarily damaged. But when, in fact, stuff did get damaged, our property got damaged, were possibly going to be at the disadvantage of getting arrested and charged with federal crimes. And so that kind of climate was always there. And we had to be very, very you know, we had to pay high attention to how far our students went with their demonstrations. And that was always an issue, even in terms of who was who was being seen as the leader of the demonstrations or the leader of the of the protest, because people were always trying to get the name of the leaders or to even the newspaper guys were always trying to get in, you know, find a way to get an advantage in terms of getting information and that and those were things we had to be very we had to pay very close attention to and manage effectively because they were those people who were always trying to set us up for being charged with with, you know, with crimes. So we had we had a lot of adversarial people that did fine. The other thing was which so many things going on outside of the student protest. Of course, the Black Panther 21 were being charged at the same time. And we had students who were in relationships with members of the Black Panther 21 that were being charged, you know, at the time. So there were so many other things going on off campus that we had to be very careful about what we got associated with or what people claimed we were associated with, which was primarily. What was going on in our educational system at Queen could hardly speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=735.95,1173.109"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e What year was the meeting that you were supposed to have in Pittsburgh happening?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1174.4,1179.632"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not 100 percent sure, but every time I see the picture of Jim Brown and Muhammad Ali and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and those folks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1182.93,1189.937"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1197.06,1198.06"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I as supposed to be at that meeting as well, and I I remember I didn't go to that meeting because I had to be at Queens College because our student body was, you know, being pushed to be into a confrontation with the white students. So I missed that meeting. I was a member of the Black Economic Union of the uhm, the athletes that were part of that group with Jim Brown.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1200.67,1235.07"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e (inaudible).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1235.071,1235.701"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, my roommate or at least I shouldn't say my roommate, but my teammate Brady Keys inside were were just about to start up my first chicken business. I had a chicken business that I left to start up when I left Queens College. And those of us who were in, you know, and involved in the chicken business, for example, Willie Stargell was one of the people that was involved in the chicken business, and he was at that meeting and a few other people that I recall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1237.891,1261.362"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mmm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1271.57,1272.57"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e But I had to miss that meeting because I had to be at Queens to make sure that our student did not get in to, you know, a riot. We had, we always had effective demonstrations, but we always were opposed to any kind of physical confrontation with the white student body.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1273.12,1286.987"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Ok.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1293.89,1294.839"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e We weren't, we weren't focused on nonviolence primarily, but we knew that any kind of physical encounter with the student body would would would raise our protest to a different level. And we were always effective in our protest without without any kind of physical confrontation with ithe white student body. Our issue, our issue at Queens College primarily was not about the white student rally. Our issue was about the education of Blacks and Puerto Ricans primarily, which, you know, was the largest group of the minorities that were in our program. There were Asians in our program. You know, and certainly a lot of women in our program but our our issues, had nothing to do, you know, necessarily with the white student body, our issues with (inaudbile), how long it would take for our students to be able to get matriculated so that they can get out of school in five years, for example, rather than six or seven. And the student body that was the most vulnerable to not being able to graduate are ended up with the longest stay in the college, which we knew was not going to be a good deal. So we were trying to get the remedial program reduced so that our students could get matriculated faster and get out of school in five years versus 6 or 7.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1294.84,1409.519"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e And look, if we take a (inaudible), I want to touch upon again you mention when you're talking about student protest in the fear of them getting into a physical altercation. You also mention the Black Panther 21, could you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1410.91,1427.849"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, those were things that those were external to you know, external to our program at Queens College you know, the the racial issues in the racial issues in New York were numerous, and the day the special programs at Queens College or in a City University were simply another issue that was going on at the same time. So that racial discrimination in the school system are, you know, in the public school system. Racial discrimination in the criminal system. Racial discrimination in any number of different areas in politics in the of New York was always there. And so our program being associated with things external to the educational program in a city university was always been linked to somebody else, and that was difficult to manage at times. But I had the experience of managing those kinds of things previously. So I knew what it would be like to keep our programs focused on the issues that we were trying to address as opposed to being linked with other, other issues outside of the educational system or to City University in New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1427.92,1529.89"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e MM yeah. And like I see that like the Panther 21, like this is an incredibly militant group. And this is something that you would want to you really would want to organize the SEEK students to not be associated with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1535.819,1550.039"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah it was important, not that the issues that the Panther 21 was addressing weren't relevant issues or weren't part of the kinds of things that our students would be paying attention to. But at the same time, if we got linked to the Panther 21, that would take the attention away from what we were trying to accomplish in the City University in New York or certainly at Queens College SEEK. And also would put us in a different category of people to be paid attention to. And so we were always trying to manage our associations with other groups because it would take away from our priorities, which were what we were trying to accomplish in the SEEK program at Queens College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1551.06,1607.93"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e MM","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1610.0,1611.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I mean, it's like me talking to you now. You and I are talking about Queens College SEEK. See you and I have a lot of other things that are priorities for me in terms of what I care about. I mean, we've got a political system going on right now that keeps you paying attention every day. I mean, I'm concerned about what's going on in the national political system. I'm, I'm concerned about what's going on in the local system. I'm concerned about what's going on with my, you know, my family system, you know, etc., etc. And so they are things you've got to manage outside of what was going on at Queen's College SEEK. And but but to keep our focus, we had to make sure that we didn't get set up to be associated with other people. And there were people who knew that as well. I mean, there are always people who or trying to destroy your program. Or your, you know, or your particular focus by trying to associate you with causes that have nothing to do with you. So we always had to be concerned about that. I mean, it was like being a part of the civil rights movement with all of the different organizations that were part of the civil rights movement. There were organizations that were non-violent organizations or whose philosophy was nonviolence. And of course, there were organizations whose philosophy was not nonviolence. And so you had to make sure that you knew who you were dealing with because you might be violating the philosophy of the organization that you belonged to. Or that the organization that you were associating with. So they were always, those kinds of issues. And you had to manage those issues effectively or you could be hurt for a long period of time. And the other thing that we always knew that we just didn't have that kind of money for is that if we had our student body into a situation where they had to get attorneys to get them out of jail as, yeah, let it be, you know, pay for bail or to pay for representation. Those were things that we had no ability to manage. So we had to make sure that we didn't let our students get involved in actions that would put them in that situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1613.67,1787.9"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mmm","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1789.388,1789.829"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e So it was much more than managing our education program that we had to be concerned with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1789.83,1795.33"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, because like these were much older students that were probably politically active. When we're thinking, like the average age of a student in SEEK during the early 70s was what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1797.82,1810.059"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it's hard to say, but I would say we certainly had many students that were in their late 20s because many of the students who had already been out of school for some time before that program was created. And so maybe about the third or fourth year of the program, we started to get more students coming right out of high school. But initially a lot of our students were in their mid to late 20s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1811.47,1843.73"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, cool. And I guess just remind me the year that you, what was the year that you left SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1847.0,1853.911"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I left SEEK I think June of 1972.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1859.93,1866.589"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e June of 72.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1867.964,1868.964"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.  Gloria Steinem. I remember was the speaker for the college program.That was one of the, that was one of the first years that the woman's movement was beginning to become effective. And Gloria Steinem was the graduation speaker in 1972.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1869.89,1895.369"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e And this was at Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1897.86,1898.889"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1898.89,1899.8"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e But we had students that were graduating from the SEEK program. We didn't have many, but that was our first group. That was our largest group at the time. And where's the program started in 1966. That was our first, that was our largest group of students graduating from the college. And we were trying to reduce the. We were trying to reduce the the years in in a SEEK program from, from 6 or 7 down to, you know, possibly even 4 or 5 because we had a lot of very, very good students that were capable of graduating from the college in, in four years, despite being a grade point average, being less in what was required for entrance, you know, matric for matriculation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1901.26,1965.789"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Many, many of the problems that we had in the SEEK program were, were related to the discrimination that students were encountering in high school, so that many of the students who didn't get accepted or didn't get the grade point averages in high school were not getting the grade point averages because of just simply what teachers did in grading them in high school versus their capability.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=1967.13,1999.109"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you remember any experiences that were shared with you from students about what it was like in high school in New York?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2000.73,2008.109"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah, well ongoing. I mean, not being from New York, it was clear to me I went to segregated high schools in New Orleans and it was just very clear to me in New York because I worked as a social worker initially. My, my first job in New York was as a , as a social worker in the United Community Centers in Brooklyn. And so I worked with high school students. You know both,you know both white highly educated kids or, or high income kids, as well as kids who were from the streets and worked with, you know, a wide variety of students. Also, ran as a teenage work camp where we had special projects, where we had minorities and gang members and whatever in our summer program. So I had quite an extensive experience of working with diverse groups before I ever came to Queens College SEEK. I think that was one of the reasons why I was selected to be a counselor. I had quite an extensive experience in both coaching and social work before I ever got to Queens College. My, my summer, my summer job, the year I got chosen was I was the director of the welfare rights group. In Red Hook, Brooklyn. Prior to come into Queens College, so that somehow I ran the EEO program for improving welfare rights for the borough of Brooklyn. So, you know, I had quite an extensive experience with, with dealing with diverse people, both in the Latin community and in the African-American community and , and in reality, also in the Jewish community as my community center. I was in was an interracial center, the United Community Centers in Brooklyn in the East New York section. But it was primarily a Jewish community center because the board of directors and most of these the young people that were initially in that community center were Jewish. So I had quite an experience with dealing with with the various people. OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2008.8,2181.75"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e So like, tell me your. Your last year. Talk about your last year in SEEK.  Tell me about your last year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2182.57,2194.9"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, my last year and seek probably was my most exciting year. See, in that we will beginning to graduate students. But we will also begin to get students focused on improving their grades so that they could get matriculated early. And once we begin to show that our students were capable of being able to get matriculated through none remedial programs, and if we could get to teach some of the college programs in the seat program versus being limited only to remediation, we could get our students through the school in five years. Most of our students are had a deficiency in any 11th grade math. So and the honor requirement for most of the college programs are certainly the non technical programs was the 11th grade math. So if we could get our students through 11th grade math, those students who weren't in technical programs would not even have to take math again. So that was not an issue. And then, of course, English was always a requirement. Twelve, twelve years of English. And we had very effective English, you know, teachers and tutors in the SEEK program. Matter of fact, we even had some of the better, you know, teachers and students. One of our tutors was Nikki Giovanni, for example, who, you know, who became a national, you know, poet. But we had Philippe Luciano, Yanno, who was also one of our students, who was one of the students who had come from prison and who was wanted kids. That was always questionable in terms of being adversarial because even though he was a great student and a great student leader, he was also so committed to Mr. Marland because my Harlen had gotten him out of prison and to the program that we were always having to fight the folks who were law you to Marlyn versus lower you to the student body in what we were trying to do in trying to develop more effective minority leadership. So we always had a lot of issues that we were dealing with. You know, when I talk about the Panther 21, for example, one of my best students was married to one of the Panther 21. And so I always had to deal with her and trying to keep her out difficulty with being associated with anything related to the panther 21 and her husband. And at the same time trying to keep those folks who were trying to support outside groups from being, you know, bringing those issues into our program so that we wouldn't get hurt by, you know, extend of views. And so it was always contemptuous. And for me, you know, because I had more experience in the civil rights movement than anybody literally in in in in my faculty or, you know, our on campus. You know, growing up in New Orleans with my best friend being the vise president of the Congress of Racial Equality, my best friend was running the program with Schwerner, got killed in Mississippi with Chaney. So I had a lot of experience with dealing with the civil rights movement because of my growing up. You know, in New Orleans and being associated with many of the folks who were leading national civil rights movements. So, you know, there was a different kind of experience that we had at the time. And I had a lot of experience in managing a lot of issues in the civil rights movement because of my association with, you know, with leaders in the national movement is where they been. You know, I was a student in Atlanta, and so I was always involved with the civil rights movement as a student at L.A. University. So I was, you know, friends with John Lewis and with Rap Brown and Julian Bond and, you know, other people that were part of the movement in, you know, in Atlanta. I went I went to judge at Abernathy's. Jerry Jones did go on. You know, my DOMA tour. So I had a lot of experience when I came to Queens College, not only with working with students, but with working with the civil rights movement and in working with, you know, just the broad based issues, you know, in in politics because of who I am and who my father words, you know. And so I had a broad. You know, I had a broad experience. And so I was able to bring that experience to, you know, the issues that we were dealing with. And I. And and God knows, I felt many times. Dad, dad, that level of experience kept us out are being destroyed not only as a program, but as a student body, because we could have had just so many issues go wrong. You had to know what you were doing to be able to manage all of the ways that we could have been sabotaged.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2195.94,2590.289"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. And like. What led you to. So talking about your last ye and that you mentioned this is when you actually have students graduate. What what what influenced your decision to leave New York?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2594.11,2614.37"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I mean, leave New York when I left, SEEK ? OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2616.36,2619.73"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e I only I was really trying to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2620.75,2623.199"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I took a leave of absence to open up my first chicken business, OK? And I opened up that business because my my teammate was trying to start the first national light franchise. And they came to me to ask me if I would, you know, consider, you know, going into business in an open enough a black franchise. And they thought that my background was. Was was was the kind of background that would be able to be sold to to the banks and to the, you know, finance groups. And so I ended up with the first store in New York in Brooklyn, and I took a leave of absence open that store. My intention was to come back to Queens. Yes. You know, I spent a year opening that store. My my intention never was to leave. And what happened was after my store was successful, I was offered a huge loan by the ETNA insurance company to open up other stores. And so I asked for another leave of absence and I was denied a leave of absence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2623.29,2714.92"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e And that's why I didn't come back to SEEK, wasn't that I was gonna leave in the first place. I simply was going to take a leave of absence and come back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2715.73,2725.449"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Speaker:\u003c/strong\u003e When I left New York, which was not just 10 years later, well, I shouldn't say that's not true. I left New York five years later. Because we had a recession. We had a major recession in 1970. In 1975, as I recall, and I took these I took a temporary. What I thought was going to be a temporary position at C and G, I was offered a two year contract. And because we were in a recession and because it would have taken it would have relieved me of a lot of pressure in my business because I had two partners who were in the construction business and also one was an architect. Their big businesses weren't doing well. And I was carrying them in my business and I had to carry them. I could get relief by taking a to year contract with Preston Gamble and what I came to do. But then they offered me a  position later. So that's why I ended up staying at Procter and Gamble. Rosedale.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2727.54,2805.6"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, go-ahead","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2806.19,2807.19"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e So that's why I never came back to the SEEK program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2809.97,2813.189"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e SEEK rejected me. I didn't reject the. I continued and continued to work with the SEEK program in building the daycare center, which I told you. We had the second daycare center in the history of the country in a division, you know, in a major university. Wayne State had built a daycare center and then I started a daycare center at Queens College. So daycare on the college campus. It's very lean in. The universities in New York was started by me at Queens College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2813.83,2854.979"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. I want to go back briefly to the recession. I've only experienced the 2008 recession with the housing bubble. Could you tell me what it was like being in New York during the recession in 1975?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2857.78,2879.519"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well well, yeah, I can tell you, because primarily my, my stores were work in different areas. And my Michou two stores were in were in Brooklyn in. One was in Crown Heights, one. One was in. Which was the area near Pratt Institute? I had one near Pratt Institute and it helped.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2880.67,2919.751"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Clinton Hill?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2922.439,2923.09"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah. And couldn't you know? Yeah. And so I had two, over there I had one on Myrtle Avenue in New, which was right next to middle-income housing development, which was my best store. So. And then I had one that was located right next to the welfare department on Franklin and Dekalb. So I had two in Crown Heights in two over in the Clinton Hills area. And I can tell you right now, just remembering is what I learned primarily about about the recession, in fact, and being in the chicken business isn't my primary learning was that business has more to do with money than it has to do with people. The assumption is that if you have a lot more people coming into these stores, you're going to make a lot more money. Well, I'd just simply was not true in the chicken business. I was located next to the welfare department and now we sold both chicken and hamburgers and that was my worst store in terms of, you know, the economics, because that store average, as I recall, is two dollars and fifty cents per person at this time. And my best store averaged something like four dollars and fifty cents per person. So I sold more chicken in my best store and more hamburgers in my worst store. So in terms of the recession, obviously when you have low income people or, you know, no matter what color, when when a recession comes, you are more likely to have people cooking at home rather than being spending money eating out. So that's that's what worries me primarily. And of course, the the the limit, you know, that you you have to put on your business to manage, you know, to manage your cost. And also in in a high crime situation, which was also part of the New York situation, during the recession, crime went up as well, is income going down. And and also customers going down because of the the fact that people were not eating out. And since everybody was being affected by by income, everybody was reducing their eating out in, you know, in in in in fast food places or, you know, our in chicken franchises, etc. And so that that's what affected me primarily. But the other thing is we we also had had in 1973 wanted the major crises in the oh we had Belal crises and then we had the recession. So back to back we were hit with major impacts on our business.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=2923.091,3146.81"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e So I didn't ask about the Recession affected you. Seventy-five. And like you in New York at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3148.67,3161.28"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e What? What effect do you think that it had on CUNY and Queens College in SEEK during that period?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3161.88,3170.25"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, to be honest with you, I can't tell you that because I really wasn't I really wasn't at the college during that time","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3171.78,3178.282"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e So uh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3181.15,3182.62"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e And the only thing I can think would have happened, though, is that I would suspect that many of the students would have had to reduce their enrollment at school in order to be able to help their families. To make it economically. So I suspect and I really don't know because I wasn't there. You know, I wasn't in in in the university at the time, but I I you would have to ask people like Modeste and  Jim Fisher and people like that. You know, some of the counselors who are, you know, who who are still available to you, you would have asked them what the recession. What was the impact of the recession on the student body? Because I. I don't know. I was not there any more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3182.94,3236.3"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. So I just want to continue talking about some of the faculty that you remember. So one of the people that we mentioned early on was Joan Adams.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3237.3,3248.249"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Joan Adams was one of my counselors, tremendous counselors. You're a graduate of Columbia and was just a very effective counselor. I had a counseling staff that was very high quality. If you go back in and and look at my staff, I think that, you know, when I look back at that period of time, I had probably some of the most effective counselors that you could have. I mean, I I had such a quality counseling staff that most of them had master's degrees. And my counseling staff was very diverse. I had Hispanics on the staff. I had African-Americans on the staff. I had white females on the staff. And I also had white males on the staff. So I would say to you, if I gave you a list or if Modeste could give you a list of who was on my staff at the time, you would need that. I had not only a very diverse, very staff and a highly educated there, but I had probably one of the most effective counseling that anybody could have. But I also had close relationships with the with the college staff so that our work very close with Steve sworn-in and Harriet Faulconer was one of my very close associates who was not hired. Brand means she wanted to work for the SEEK program. But I felt she would be better and more effective with working with the college program. And I always struggled with that because she wasn't happy about me not choosing her. But she was one of the great counselors for the college program. So I was counseling staff was one of the most effective staff that you could ever put together on a college campus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3249.05,3393.989"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. They include people like Frank Franklin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3394.79,3397.65"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Frank came too late. Frank came after me. Frank was work, in fact, as I recall. Frank was working on the college staff before he ever came to the seat program. But I had a good relationship to him. Frank was not working in our program initially.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3399.38,3421.71"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. And like, so you you you told me about like the staff at SEEK and could you tell me what it was, the relationship that you had with them? Like, what do you remember about this group of people? After hours. In regards to like have developing the same philosophy of working with students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3422.98,3446.269"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I did well, I can tell you is that I can. I can remember a lot of their names even to this day and also my secretary, you know, . You know that these people. I well, matter of fact. Well, let me just give you an example right now, I'm I'm just sitting here writing names down, definitely out in Beverly Elkin was there when I got there. She had been there the year before me. Alice Eikos  was there the year before me. So Alice and Beverly were white females that were hired before me. I can't call Vince, Vince's last name, but Vince was also hired before me. Vince had a Ph.D. in psychology and Vince thought, he should have been a director program. But Vince did not have the kind of relationships that would have been would have made him an effective administrator, a good counselor, but not an effective administrator. And he was I got chosen over Vince to be the director. But because Kay, I don't remember Kay's last name, but Kay was the director when I got there or the acting director. And then I was chosen over her. When Kay left, I don't remember where Kay left to go to. But Kay was a white female. So I came in 67 and I was chosen as director. I think in either late 67 or 68. I don't remember which. Which year I was, too, but it was after one year. But I still remember most of my counselors. Beverly Elkin, I told you, was there before me. Alice was there before me. Kay was here before me. Vince was there before me. But then Joan Adams, I hired, I hired Hector Lopez. I hired, Oh, shoot. Let's see, I hired Charles Lloyd. Harry, Brian Lemont. Mitch, you, Janet Washington, Margo Washington and Jesse Vasquez, who was also hispanic. Dave Stone was a white male. So I. had you know, There was  just a tremendous number of good, solid counselors that are hired for that program. We had as l recall. We had about 25 counselors and each of them had 50 students. So we just we not only had an effective counseling stay, but we had a you know, it's a small number of students as compared to what college counselors have on on major and major programs. So we had a tremendous staff. And many of them stayed for quite a long time in that program. Harry Brownie's died two years ago. And Harry. Harry was still on the campus working in SEEK. Of course Modeste staid there a long time I don't remember how long most of them stayed there because certainly over the last ten, fifteen years, I haven't been in close touch with many of them. But we just had a tremendous result with that counseling staff I  I would tell you right now. Today. If I had to design a educational program. That would be effective, in would certainly deliver the kind of students that America needs today. Our program was designed for what America needs today, and unfortunately, people were always trying to eliminate our program rather than to model our program. I think when open admission happened, that was the beginning of the destruction of the SEEK program, because I think what we had discovered was one year of remediation in order to be a matriculated student was was an effective way of preparing students for college. And once we were able to reduce that number of years down to, you know, to one that resulted in our students being able to get in regular college classes faster and once they were in regular college classes, they were able to get matriculated, you know, with 60 credits in two years as opposed to having to take three or four years. And once we got that done, I was students were beginning to graduate from the university, just like other students were. So I am saying to you, even after all of these years, my recollection is that they they always sought to destroy our program. Versus how to minimize or reduce our program versus to model our program. Once the, Once we  got the college to do some of the things that we were protesting about. We started to have students graduate faster and had students to get matriculated fast. In many of my students graduated with honors. And so it was you know, it was almost as if people were unwilling to pay attention to our results. And instead of paying attention to our results and understanding what we were protesting for, we we we really, you know, were trying to get people to understand that much of the discrimination against the students in high school was the basis for their not being able to perform in college. And it wasn't because of their ability. It was because of the discrimination against the student body. Students were being discriminated against in high school. And I experienced that so much when I was working as a social worker before I got to Queens College that if we could ever reduce the refusal to accept students is equal or you know or or, you know, equality being addressed at the at the elementary and high school level, we could have reduced the problems that we had at the university level. But many of a student at the university level were quite capable of graduating from college. You simply had to reduce the stresses that they had on them. You can't be 27, 28 years old, have the worst, go to college and also have to go to college longer. I mean, it's just that just something that makes no sense. And to the extent that we had tried to identify those kinds of issues and made it very clear how to address those issues and did an effective job at it. And, you know, and then to see some of our students graduate and then go on to be effective leaders in the city, in New York, it just was never addressed. So we we just never addressed the issues that were, you know, that was somehow solved. I mean, it's like solving problems in you, not accepting the outcome. And that's what happened, I think, with the SEEK program. I think, you know, Shirley Chisholm's understanding of what we were trying is, you know, what we needed to do and what we were trying to do was just, do, you know, a tremendous understanding of, you know, how we could overcome many of those things. And that's what I felt that we did. And then when I got Lloyd Delany associated with me, when Lloyd began to help me to address the issues that we were talking about. We started to be highly successful and the more success  we had, the more attempts there were to eliminate the program or eliminate our, you know, our design that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=3447.91,4096.335"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Speaker:\u003c/strong\u003e I felt effective. You know what made me the SEEK program more effective at Queens College had the most effective SEEK program in the city. But oh, never we would never see me to get people to understand that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4098.109,4114.66"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. So speaking of other. Did you have much interaction with other SEEK programs in CUNY?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4116.029,4124.149"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Not, not a lot. I mean, we had we had you know, we we we we discussed our program versus others. But I think that as much as what I was saying to you about so many issues that were broader than, I mean, City University of  New York always had bigger issues than we had because they were right in the middle of, you know. You know, and, you know, near the next you know, next to Harlem. I mean, there were always more issues with, you know, the City University program with Hunter college or where even when Lehman opened and other schools open, they always had more issues than we had because we were not so much. In the heart of the city's basic province, Brooklyn. Brooklyn College benefited from its location where they did not have a lot of the kind of issues of large numbers of minority students going to Brooklyn. You know, we had, we had a most solid program and I think Brooklyn College head or even City University had, because I think that big city university in New York had broader issues than we had and we could manage our issues more effectively than they could.  So it was different, but but in my opinion, I thought that we we developed probably the most effective program in the city. And we discussed our program all the time, and it so many of the counseling staff and in teaching staff were people who had gone to school together, so we all had associations or relationships with each other. But are programs with some, you know, were similar but different in other ways. But I think there was a lot more pressure on us, on on City University people to manage more issues than we had to manage.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4125.279,4278.6"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e OK","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4280.13,4281.13"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e But well, you know, one wonders thing that I can say to you now because you wouldn't understand it now. Is that. A lot of the kind of issues that we were going through, even in Queens, was that there was the housing discrimination that was going on in Queens. With the Trump family. In Lefrak City and you know, a number of those are different housing units that were also having to face the  kind of city discrimination. You know, off campus kind of stuff that was going on at the same time that, you know, was going on, you know, that that our issues were going on educationally at Queens College. But we you know, we had less of their kind of off, you know, campus issues in Queens than people would have had in Manhattan. So they had you know, they had broader issues. There's no question but that a lot more the things that they were dealing with in Manhattan were different from what we experienced. You know, like Queens College. But I'm I still. You know, when when we're talking about impact. I still think the Queen's college experience was one of the most beneficial experiences that I ever had because it taught me more about working with students and with young people, but also working with political systems, because I had to do so much in working with the political systems and with the university systems as well as the students. I just got such a broad array of experience and the skills that came out of that Queen's College experience. I know as you are doing archives, I'm still trying to begin to ask questions about numbers of my students that graduated because some of those students did very well in their lives.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4285.24,4442.92"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I mean. Part of the project is to. There is an archive at sea. So we're going to help process. So I hope maybe some of those some of that information and data will be there. And I'll be happy to share that once we get to it. OK. Is there anything you'd like to share before we hop off the recording and I just call you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4443.74,4473.899"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I. Well, let let me just say this. I think that the quality of the staff that we had is reflective of what you can see now with a person, the quality of a Bill Modin. I always felt that I hired him for a role. Dad, what at the time did not seem to be as beneficial as it became. But I think the reality of students having to go to school at a late age and to be able to survive financially was so important to them being able to make it in school. And so the quality of our staff was really a big asset to our students making news. We had high we had a very high quality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4475.8,4543.689"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Contrary to what always felt about, you know, special programs or of minority students, the assumption that our staff wasn't of high quality. I would say to you that if our staff, didn't have a master's degree when they came, I had convinced our staff members that they needed to get a master's degree going forward. And if they could get a p.h.d with the benefits that the college offered, they ought to do that. So I think that most of our staff kept developing and even though, you know, quite a few of them left over the years, we had we had a very, very strong staff academically and in our counseling group. And many of our students benefited from that, and a few that I talked to even today, many of who retired from their jobs. You know, certainly we had a lot of kids that became teachers. Many of them became effective teachers and, you know, have done very well over the years. You know, and I mean, I I think even developing our daycare center. I understand a daycare center became a College daycare center. And I'm sure that impacted the student body more broadly than our own SEEK Program. But the concept that we developed, which grew out of Itzik program was beneficial to the college. And I think I think that it was so many of our students, Philip Berry, for example, who was a very close associate of mine, who was one of my mentees that at Queens College, was in a regular college program in the student body vice president you know, it became a very strong advocate of the SEEK program and then ended up later as he come back in New York and worked as a vice president at Colgate. And then is is is maybe even currently maybe retired up the board now. What was a board member to board a high education for the city in New YorkEESo we've we've had some very successful people to come out of the SEEK experience because, you know, we just did a good job with working with people across the campus. I you know, I hated to leave SEEK because it was one of my best experiences. But also, even though I went into the chicken business, that was never something that I had thought a lot about in terms of becoming a business man. Had never had thought beyond my counseling experience, at Queens College which I always felt fit me so perfectly and I continued to do, you know, that kind of work as a volunteer here in Cincinnati. I worked with with with principals and with administrators in the board,of high you know board of education and in the high schools here until about five years ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4545.07,4787.978"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e ok.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4788.086,4788.527"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, I have remained as a counselor and a teacher, you know, and in an admin is, you know, and as a consultant for educational people, principals and superintendents in the city of New, you know, city of Cincinnati. So I have never I have never gotten away from working with education assistants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4788.528,4817.06"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e Alright Cool. So I think that's a good stopping point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4819.34,4822.64"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm just going to call you backat this number because I don't have some information to share with you in regards to Dr. Keith Clark.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4824.62,4832.127"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. Oh, great. Because I didn't get the one. He's one of them. Been asking about and I haven't gotten any information on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4833.68,4840.25"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Obden Mondésir:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. So I'm going to take up and and call you back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4840.97,4842.72"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245/transcript/24616/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Waldo Jeff:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Appreciate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/39649/file/111245#t=4843.34,4845.979"}]}]}]}