{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/fq9q23s27z/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Lucille Kyvallos Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eLucille Kyvallos discusses her childhood in Astoria, Queens, her early interest in basketball and other sports, and her illustrious career as a physical education instructor and basketball coach at Queens College. She discusses the impact of Title IX and other milestones for women’s collegiate basketball in the 1970s and early 1980s.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College Faculty and Staff Oral History Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1930s-2022 (bulk 1970s) (temporal)","Astoria and Flushing, Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-09-28 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Lucille Kyvallos (Interviewee)","Fran Kipnis (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/43664"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eLucille Kyvallos discusses her childhood in Astoria, Queens, her early interest in basketball and other sports, and her illustrious career as a physical education instructor and basketball coach at Queens College. She discusses the impact of Title IX and other milestones for women\u0026rsquo;s collegiate basketball in the 1970s and early 1980s.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/174/566/small/Lucille_Kyvallos_Photo_for_9_28_22_interviewaviary.jpg?1676305316","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - video1569323716.mp4"]},"duration":3837.824,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/174/566/small/Lucille_Kyvallos_Photo_for_9_28_22_interviewaviary.jpg?1676305316","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/174/566/original/video1569323716.mp4?1676305062","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3837.824,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Recording. Okay. So before we start Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=0.0,5.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Something on my screen. Excuse me. Got it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=5.0,9.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Yeah. Okay. So before we start the interview, I'm just going to ask if you agree to the terms and conditions outlined in the Queens Memory informed consent and copyright permission form that I shared with you over the email.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=9.0,28.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Yes, I do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=28.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: So my name is Fran Kipnis and I'm with Lucille Kyvallos, and we are recording on September 28th, 2022 for the Queens Memory Project. And, Lucille, could you pronounce and spell your full name for us?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=30.0,48.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Lucille Kyvallos. L u c i l l e Ky v a l l o s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=48.0,56.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Okay, great. So again, I just want to say how honored we are and grateful to you to do this interview. And, the way I'm sort of thinking about it is I'm going start by asking you some questions about your history in Queens, so about growing up in Astoria, and then we'll talk about your career at Queens College, and then a little bit about your life after Queens College. So can you tell me where and when you were born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=56.0,87.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Well, I was born in New York City in 1932, and we lived in, Astoria, on 35th Street near Ditmars Boulevard. And it was a very ethnic neighborhood, and, I loved the neighborhood. It was great. I got to play a lot. And, it was, it's part of my, whoever I am, really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=87.0,117.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: So can you talk a little bit about your parents' journey to Astoria? How did they get there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=117.0,123.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Well, I, I think, I don't know how my father's family got there. They originally settled in Maryland, near Washington DC and then they somehow ended up, my father ended up in Queens and - but my mother has an interesting history. She was just a young baby. Maybe she was a young child and they had to, they lived in the European section of Istanbul. And at the time, Greece and Turkey were having a military conflict. So my grandfather died because he was trying to hide - The Turkish army was, drafting young Greek men, and my grandfather was trying to save them. He owned a shoe manufacturing company in Istanbul. And in some way he was arrested. And he died of typhoid fever in prison. Yes. And my grandmother took her family. She had, my mother and two sons, and they fled to, they sold their properties and they fled to France, Lyon. They lived there for five years in Lyon, France waiting to be allowed to emigrate to the United States, which they did. I don't remember the year, but my mother did go to elementary school in Queens.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=123.0,229.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: So tell me a little bit more about what Astoria was like when you were growing up and things like what your school and the neighborhood playgrounds, things like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=229.0,241.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Well, I love my, the street I grew up on, because there were a lot of kids there, young kids. We were all pretty much the same age. It was a new development. It was, there were two story, two family homes that were, attached. And we played, I learned all my movement skills playing on the, on the streets, with the other kids and mostly boys. And we learned, I learned to throw and hop and skip and change direction and all those things that parents send their kids to this camp now to learn. But I learned, we learned it on the street. And then when we, when I got older, we were playing more organized games like Ringoleveo, Chicken in the Pot and Red Rover, Red Rover, Let Somebody Else Come Over. It was really great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=241.0,297.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So you learned your attention skills, you learned how to change direction, how to catch, how to throw, all those fundamental movements that are so important in sports. And then I went to elementary school, PS 85, and it was, there weren't any gym classes or anything like that then, but I didn't need any of that when I was in elementary school. And I loved PS 85. It was a real learning experience for me. I remember my fourth grade teacher who was a real disciplinarian, which is something I needed. And, I was very active and probably ADD as well, [laugh]. And so she - it was really a wonderful experience. I actually, she put me in a rapids class in the fifth grade. And Mr. McAloon was, the teacher at the time couldn't handle me. So I went right back in sixth grade into a normal sixth grade situation. And then we had, I had Mrs. Siegel as my sixth grade teacher, and she gave me projects. So I got involved in the newspaper and I was really very good with her. And I ended up winning a prize at, when I graduated a book, Bambi's, it was something about Bambi [laugh]. And, that's when I went on to junior high school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=297.0,403.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Great. And then before, beause I want to hear about junior high school, Astoria is a traditionally Greek neighborhood. So what was that like growing up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=403.0,413.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Well, my particular block, it was a lot of Greeks were in Astoria, but on my particular block, we had, there was an Italian family, Italian families. There was a French family, there was a Jewish family, there was a Polish family across the way. There was an Irish family, so it was really not, predominantly, my block was not predominantly Greek. So, I love that about the neighborhood. You know, we called, Georgie, we called him \"Frenchy,\" and we called somebody else - hey, that Irish kid over there, you know, it's, it was really nice. It was really, I learned to be multiethnic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=413.0,460.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right, right. And then in junior high school and high school, were there organized sports at all at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=460.0,469.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Yeah, Well, interestingly enough, we started having PE classes and we learned, the girls, we had to wear those gym outfits. And we had a very strict PE teacher, and she taught us - it was a theme that was - let's see, somewhere, I can't remember the name of the game, but it was like you had circles all over the court on the basketball court, and you stayed in your circle. You were either a shooting person or a guarding person. And the idea of the game was that you could pass the ball from one circle to another until you got to the ball, advance the ball to your shooter, and then the shooter would take the shot. Interestingly enough, it was a game of non-movement, really. I mean, it was movement. It wasn't like running up and down the court the way boys were running up and down the court on five-player game.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=469.0,531.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So, but then, there was a recreational program after junior high school that I used to go to all the time because both my parents worked. And that's where I learned to play basketball. And, there was a schoolyard there as well. And then I got, I was always a very active child, and I was tall for my age and I was pretty good at athletics and shooting baskets. And that was intriguing me because you got feedback right away, you know, you shot the ball, the ball went in or it didn't go in or whatever. So that was a motivating factor, I think, as to why I stayed with the game. And then Mr. Gantz, who was affiliated with the Police Athletic League, started a team at that junior high school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=531.0,595.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And I joined the team. He asked me to join. I loved to join. And he was a wonderful man. And we had, we played Girls Rules, now. Now we're six on, you know, six play a game, three on three. And I found that to be very exciting and motivating. And that's how I was introduced to basketball in junior high school. Then in high school, then were gym classes, but there were no inter-scholastic teams for girls. There were boys teams, but there weren't any girls teams. So a group of us got together and we started our own basketball team, and it was called the Queens Rustics. And we joined a recreational league. The Police Athletic League had a league for girls, the Mirror Park Department. The Mirror used to be a newspaper, and it partnered with the New York Department of Parks, and they ran a league - and citywide.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=595.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So this meant if you won your borough competition, you advanced to some other level and then an interborough competition. And then finally the championship. And I think, I don't know if it was the Mirror Park Department League or the Police Athletic League - we ended up playing the final game, the championship game for the city championships against Staten Island in Madison Square Garden. And this is the old Madison Square Garden, the one that preceded the one that exists today. And that was very exciting. So [who won?] We did the Queen Rustics. [Congratulations.] But later on in high school, I got recruited by this team in the Bronx. And it was a team of really good basketball players from all, from mostly Manhattan and the Bronx and Queens. And we called ourselves the Bronx Angels, and that was really a very strong team.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=660.0,735.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And did you play other teams from New York or from other?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=735.0,740.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: We only in New York. It was - well, we did play some teams from New Jersey. It was like an industrial league.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=740.0,755.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=755.0,756.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: To - but not exactly extensive, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=756.0,762.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And then the other...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=762.0,763.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: One thing I have to tell you is - I really learned my basketball skills playing with boys in the playgrounds, or the schoolyards during, my junior high school years and high school years. And I got to be very good. So, you know, people would choose up teams and I would always get chosen. And I was, the reason I was so effective was because I was very quick and I was accurate, and I learned the skills. So that was another very strong experience that I had, meaningful experience as I was becoming a good athlete.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=763.0,811.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right. And were any of those people that you were playing with move to more professional basketball as well, or?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=811.0,819.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: No, they, no, they didn't. One of them, Margo Boris, got to be a basketball official, but that was the closest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=819.0,829.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: [laugh]. And then you went off to college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=829.0,835.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Yes. But also, one other thing I have to tell you. My last year in high schooI, I got recruited by a team that was called the Cover Girls. And the Cover Girls were organized and owned by Mike Strauss, who was a sports writer for the New York Times. And he put together this group of outstanding athletes from basketball players from New York City and from New Jersey. And we would travel on weekends and play men's teams, before, just a lot of them were fundraisers or, you know, things like that, things for that people could do on a Friday night or a Saturday night or a Sunday afternoon. And so we traveled, we went to towns in New York, and we went to Pennsylvania. We went all around the tri-state area, and we played these professional games. We got paid, not a lot. I mean, it was, at that time it was like $15 a game. But that was another experience I had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=835.0,907.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And did all of that feel very unique to you because of the times, that women's sports were not that well promoted? Were you thinking about that at the time when you were playing in high school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=907.0,920.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: No, I wasn't thinking about promoting women's basketball. I was in it, I was in the sport. I, my head was just in, you know, how can I be more effective and how can I, what add, what other shots can I add? I could shoot with my left hand, I take lay ups with my left, take lay ups with my right. Take jump shots, take outside shots, make my free throws, play better defense. I was into the game is what I was [laugh]. And, you know, if he had some guy who was six foot one on guarding you, how could you double pump to get around him? You know, [laugh], that's what I was thinking about. [Okay.] That part, that question came when I was started coaching at Queens College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=920.0,968.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Okay. So we'll talk about that a little later. And then, so tell me a little bit about college, and sports in college, and your college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=968.0,977.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: When I went to college ? [Affirmative], Well, I started out at NYU and I was there for a year and a half. And then I transferred to Springfield College in Massachusetts because it was a very fine physical education school, and that's what I wanted to do. And I wanted to get out of New York City as well. So I went to Springfield and there were no intercollegiate opportunities at all for girls and women or for the women there. And you know, basically what we were doing there, if you wanted to compete, you would get a team together, the school would get a little team together and have a play day with other colleges, and they, we would play them and then afterwards they would, we would, serve punch and cookies [laughter] and oh funny. But anyway. And at Springfield, it wasn't encouraged to be so competitive and so outstanding and that kind of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=977.0,1047.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So I continued to play with some recreational teams in New York, and I would come home on weekends, and I was still playing with the Cover Girls, you know, going around the country playing men. And also I was at Springfield, I would play the pickup games with the guys. And some of them were on the basketball team. And as a matter of fact, one of the coaches there, Ed Steitz, said that I was probably the best basketball player ever showed up at Springfield College. He didn't say that when I was there. He said after. But anyway. So that's, those were my experiences. And then after I graduated from college, it was hard. I had meetings. We had a job, which I got, and everything from that point on was on playing, finding recreational teams to play with because there were no other opportunities. You had to - that was the only vehicle we had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1047.0,1110.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right, right. So what are some of the jobs you had in between college and before starting at Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1110.0,1117.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Well, my first job was, when I graduated Queen, Springfield, 1955, I got a job at Carle Place High School, teaching physical education. And I was there for three years from 55 to 58. And I enjoyed that experience. It was a great teaching experience for me. And then I went to graduate school for my Master's, and I went to Indiana University, and of course, I was always playing recreational basketball with the guys there as well. So I got my degree in 59. And then I went to the University of Rhode Island to teach in the Department of Health and Physical Education. And I did that for three years, I think. And they didn't have a major in physical education. They only had a requirement in physical education. It was a wonderful university. I really loved being in Rhode Island, but I decided I wanted to go into a program, find a program that, you know, had a major in PE.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1117.0,1198.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So, I got the job. I applied and got a job at West Chester State College at the time. It is now a university. And that was in 1962. I was there for four years. And I told them that I - they had a woman's varsity team, which URI did not - the previous - the university I was at before. So I was really very happy with the opportunity to coach as well as teach. So I was full time faculty and with the added responsibility of coaching the women's team. And I did that for four years. And it was a fabulous experience because Pennsylvania had inter-scholastic sports for girls, and therefore they were somewhat grounded in their fundamentals, but they, of course, they didn't play, you know, 19 or 20 games.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1198.0,1266.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So they, we, they could only play like 12 or 13 games a year. But still, it was something, And I think the, you know, the country is still sort of grappling with the idea, is this game too rigorous for girls and women, You know? So I coached there four years, and I, I had, you know, players, young women, who knew how to take - who knew how to dribble and who had to pass and who had to shoot to some degree. So, but I refined them. I made them more aggressive in their play and added more effectiveness to team play. And we, after four years, we only lost two games. We won 54 games and lost only two. So that was really very, very nice. But there was no state championship. There was no inter, you know, national,  collegiate championship at that particular time. So, by that time I was getting, You want me to go on with this? Because I -","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1266.0,1339.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Yeah - and then sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1339.0,1342.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And then I started getting homesick. I was there for four years, and it was a nice community, but I was, I was really homesick. So I looked for a job in New York City, and I got, landed a job at Queens College. And in 1966, but I was faculty there, again, assistant professor. And then in 1968, I got the job of coaching the women's team at Queens College. And that was an eye opener because - all - there were hardly any recruits. There was no inter-scholastic program at Queens College, or I'm sorry, at the, in New York City, no, inter-school public institution. I mean public in, you know, high school inter-scholastic opportunities. Catholic schools in the City of New York did have teams, and they did have - I don't know if they had City championship, but they did have varsity teams for girls in the Catholic schools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1342.0,1410.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So when I went to recruit my first year, I had to put up signs in the Student Union, if you like to run and jump, come try out for the women's basketball team. And you, I had to be a sales person, you know. I had my team. And, the majority, 80% of them were not, were inexperienced, didn't have any skills or very little skills. They were fast, they were quick, they were big, whatever. And so I trained them. They had to learn how to do the fundamentals of the game, the layups and the guarding and like that. And that was really, that was an interesting period of time. But in three years, I developed a team and we started winning a lot of games. And then we got, I applied for - at this time at the national level, women were starting to say, \"should we have, an intercollegiate body for more competition for girls and women?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1410.0,1486.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And this was the prelude to the AIAW, which is the Association for Intercollegiate Athletics for Women at the time. But just before that time, they were experimenting with an invitational national championship. And we didn't get invited to the first one, but we did get to qualify -or invited-- We were either invited or qualified for the second one, which was held in North Carolina, Cullowhee, North Carolina at one of the Carolina colleges there -universities, actually. And in 1971, that's the year that we qualified. When we went there and we got a send off, I mean, this was like at Queens College - this is a big deal, a team going out of state, you know, to play a national tournament because our records, our basketball record, was good at that particular time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1486.0,1549.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And so we went to Cullowhee and we were, there were 16 teams, and of course we were not the best. There were teams from Pennsylvania, [North Carolina], and Mississippi and all over the country. And we came out 11th - out of 16 teams, we came out 11th. But the thing that happened was it turned on my team members, you know, they got - oh, look at that. She's still great and this, and let's do that. So basically what they saw was a model, some kind of a model that motivated them. Before I had to teach them how to be responsible, team members, how to show up to practice on time, how to make arrangements to adjust their program so that they could do what they, you know, make their commitment to the women's basketball team. Those, aside from the skills and the confidence, I had to work on that. I had to teach them what it meant to make commitments to this program. So they saw - they saw what I was talking about finally. And in 1972, we got, we qualified for a national, and we came out fifth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1549.0,1642.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Wow. [laugh]. That's amazing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1642.0,1645.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: That was at Northern Illinois University, someplace like that. And so that was really a great jump. But I, the other thing that was happening was that locally Queens, I was doing clinics for high schools, and I was, you know, taking my girls or my players and demonstrating how to do certain things, you know, like jump shots or running offensive plays, or how to play defense. I was getting - trying to get the information out in my regional area. So I did tons of clinics in Long Island. And the New York Public Schools changed their rules that they allowed - they started developing inter-scholastic, they allowed inter-scholastic competition for girls in public schools. And so I remember one recruit I got from the high school from John Adams, and she was about six feet tall, and she thought she was the cat's meow. She came in and I said, Oh, really? I said, All right, How many games have you played? Oh, we played four games. Four games. Oh, that's great. So, you know, you have to change their heads anyway. So when we got - all right. So that's, that's it. Then there's, there's more to tell. I don't know what you want me to, where you want me to go with this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1645.0,1734.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right. Let me just ask one question, and then I just want to hear the experiences. But was there something unique to Queens College that this happened there? Was it particularly supportive through the administration of women's sports or the, the student body? What was, or was it you that really made that happen?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1734.0,1754.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: A very interesting question. There was no administrative pressure, not, or interest at the collegiate level, or in, even in my department. I had sexism going on in there, which I don't know if you want to talk about that, but not now. It was me. It was all my motivation. And I could have, you know, kept the program really down low, un-skilled, you know, just give them their time out on the court and whatever. But that's not - I always believed in developing excellence. And I thought Queens College at the time was an institution that strove for excellence in their students academically. And I just, in my way of thinking, it meant, physically as well. So I, just started the program. I designed the program. And also I thought another motivating factor was the question you had asked me before. I was so motivated because of the lack of opportunities that I had as a young person growing up. And I feel that I could have made the Olympics and I was that good. I was playing with boys, I could - knew how to outsmart, you know, certain height or whatever, quickness or whatever. So that's really was the motivating factor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1754.0,1845.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: So tell me a little bit about after - did you start seeing after 72 with Title IX and more inter-scholastic programs in the high schools, the students, the new recruits being more skilled? How did it change over time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1845.0,1862.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Yeah, that was a big change. Because now these young women who had some ability were coming to me . At the, in New York public schools - in the New York public schools, especially with the black kids, because there were a lot of opportunities, you know, they were learning on the playgrounds and also Catholic high schools, young women were coming to me. So it was, those years were easy. Especially, you know, there were three, four things that happened that really propelled this thing. After I got notoriety. You know, we came back in 1972 and said, Oh yeah, Queens College came out fifth in the national tournament, you know, blah, blah, blah. So then I put in a bid to get the 1973 AIAW Women's Basketball Tournament to Queens College. Now, that was a major, major turning point because what it did was it created the impetus for marketing women's basketball, women's basketball, not only to the New York area, but nationally.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1862.0,1941.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: That was a huge event and a huge impetus. That - the 1973 Tournament, the 1975 game at Madison Square Garden, which drew just under 12,000. Billy Jean King beating Bobby Riggs in the Battle for the Sexes in women's, tennis. I don't know if you remember, Yes, Yes And Title IX in 72. So those things started to change it, the culture and in our society, you know, that girls Oh yeah, you throw like a girl. I remember growing up with that, you know, Oh, they would say to other girls, not to me, but they would say, Oh yeah, you throw like a girl. You know, girls are inept, they can't compete. I mean, not compete, but they can't be proficient in physical skills running or dodging or catching or throwing or whatever they had to do. And that was the overall concept in our society. Aside from the fact that in 19, in the early 20th century, Babe Didrikson Zaharias - I don't know if you remember her name, but she was a phenomenal athlete in basketball and baseball and track and field.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=1941.0,2026.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: She won two Olympic medals in the Olympics. And there were other standouts here and there throughout our culture, but nothing became of it. So women were getting, you know, the short end of the stick all the time. So the thing that happened at Queens College was monumental in helping to get it out there in front of everybody's face - in 1973, with the National Tournament with Bobby Riggs and Billy Jean King, with Title IX. And then in 1975, you know, we got invited to - Oh, there's another part of the story that got national press. In 1973, Queens College made it, we got to the final game and we were playing this little Catholic school from Pennsylvania, Immaculata College. You know, they had all their kids training from elementary school. The fathers would have Saturday programs and teach the girls how to dribble and whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2026.0,2106.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And so they had experienced players. I just want to - because I had some [laugh]. Anyway, so what happened in 1972 was Immaculata College won the national championship at Illinois Southern University and wherever that was. And so now it's 1973. And we play, we have teams from all over the country, from Michigan, from Texas, from California, from then and the media. I have to talk to you about the media as well. But I'm just going finish this part. So we have Immaculate College in the finals with Queens College. And Queens College - well, we had a couple of tough games, but got into that final, we ended up losing. But the media attention was phenomenal. You know, someone wrote in, some guy wrote a report. I said, Oh, yeah, we expected them to, you know, they scraped their knees, they would cry, you know, but oh, you know, they, they were really doing this really great basketball.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2106.0,2180.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: I mean, you know, under pressure. I, we played a game with two overtimes, and it was really pressure the whole time and going to the free throw line. And we have the whole gym was like, filled up with spectators. We only had free seating for 3000, but they were hanging from the rafters. It was really - so the media attention was a major breakthrough. That was, it was incredible. We had reporters from not just - we had from Newsday and from The Times and all the New York newspapers and out of town papers too. So that was huge. And then in 1974, Immaculata beat us in that final game, and we had a reschedule, By the way, the coach of Immaculata played for me at West Chester State. So college, okay. But aside -","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2180.0,2238.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: That's an aside. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2238.0,2239.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So I get a call from Madison Square Garden - the man in charge of Collegiate Games there. And he asked me if I wanted to have a game, play a game there, and I could select anybody I wanted, any team that I wanted to play. And of course, the chairman of my department refused, you know, would've refused that. We went around him to the athletic director, and he went to the president. It was a sexism thing, which I'll discuss later if you want. Fran, are you with me?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2239.0,2277.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Yep. Yep. I'm here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2277.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: He, so he went, the athletic director, went to the president of the college, who was very amenable to my program. And, he said, they gave me a go ahead. And so I, now, I see this as a real opportunity to showcase, this game, this - the woman's collegiate basketball game. So I invited Immaculata College, I could have invited anybody I wanted to. I invited Immaculata, and the day of the game came. We were playing prelim to a men's game - collegiate game. Okay. So - now the men had only been drawing 4,000 people for their collegiate games. They had Iona and St. John's and all the local schools. So the day of the game comes, and they kept filing in , and filing in, and filing in. And we drew, you know, almost 12,000, just under 12.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2280.0,2339.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So here - you know, the place was mobbed. So, it was very exciting. It was very exciting. The - I don't - I also heard after the fact, and I don't know if this is true, that Billy Jean King was at that game up in the rafters. Didn't want to distract from - so I don't know if that's true. I would have to check that out. But, so it was just very exciting because that game, the lights would dim, teams went out and started to warm up, and then all of a sudden we hear, \"I am Woman, Hear Me Roar,\" and the place went berserk. The mothers were there with, and the fathers and the brothers and the friends and whatever the place went berserk. So it was really a phenomenal experience. And, it was a battle?. - it was a very close game, back and forth, back and forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2339.0,2398.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: We ended up losing the game, but, and we were very disappointed. But we knew, you know, history, [FRAN: it was a huge victory. It was a huge victory. It was just huge] For women, yeah. Yeah it was. So I don't know if you want me to go on with this point because this is part of the conflict between the men in the NCAA and the women in the AIAW because now the NCAA was very concerned and didn't like what was going on. We had national publicity in 1973 when we had the tournament. We had national coverage. And it went out nationally when Queens College beat Immaculata College in 1974, when they came to play us at our place, that went viral because Queens College beat the national championship. So that's why I set up the 75 match in the Garden, which just continued pushing you know, to put everybody on notice that women were here now and were very competent athletes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2398.0,2481.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And, so when after 75 with the media attention and whatever, then the NCAA got more serious about their programs because now we were in a national arena. That was internationally known. And that's when they started to really get, pour money into their women's programs. That's right. They weren't doing that in 1972, 73. You know what I'm saying? They didn't go out and hire the best coaches and recruit the best players or anything. They didn't do that until after Madison Square Garden because there was a conflict. They wanted control over women's basketball. And in 1980, they were in conflict with the AIAW. The AIAW was running national tournaments. Right. 79, 76, 78, 79, whatever. In 1980, NCAA decides to run a national tournament, Women's Basketball National Tournament with all expenses paid. And that was what nailed the coffin of the AIAW because if you were AIAW you had to pay your own way. And now athletic directors could say, well, you can go to this tournament for free, blah, blah, blah. So that was, that was it. That was it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2481.0,2575.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: So, so tell me a little bit, you referred to it about the, what was happening in your department, the sexism in the department?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2575.0,2584.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Oh, God. Well, I wasn't getting any support. One way or another, I found out the chairman of the department did not approve of what I was doing. He had no control over it, because I was answering to the athletic director who was okay with what I was doing. But of course, he wasn't giving me a lot of money. I was functioning on the - maybe a budget - of at the highpoint maybe $5,000 at that particular time. So, and, so the chairman of the department, because we were getting, we were in the news, the New York Times was writing articles about this, The Daily News, you know, whatever publication was out there. So one of the alumni wanted to give us money to you know, to help our program and the chair of the department refused to accept it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2584.0,2653.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: He would not - had to. They were graduates, both of these alumni people. The chairman of the department was a graduate of Queens, and the other guy was. So they, there was an alumni association basically, and the alumnus went to the chairman and said, I, you know, I want to give some money to the Woman's Basketball program and blah, blah, blah. And he just, he said, Well, they don't need it. It's okay. They, he refused to take it. So that was one thing. And all along the line, it was like that. And then finally he went to, several, couple years later, he went to the Student Association. And because they were also making contribution to us. Because of our notoriety, we were in the school newspaper all the time. So they wanted to help us out. And he went to them and said that we didn't, we shouldn't do that. He, and they shouldn't do that. And he refused. And finally, I found out he was going to be there. And I took my whole team, finished the, cut the practice, and took my whole team to that particular meeting, and I got only, I wasn't informed about it. I only got word through one of my players, and we got the student body to support us. So that kind of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2653.0,2735.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Yeah, that's horrible. So are there any special players, that you, that you coached that really rose up to the top in women's basketball? Who are some of the great players that you worked with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2735.0,2753.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Well, yeah. I worked with a - I developed a lot of them. One of them, a lot of them went to the - as a result of all this, they tried the first attempt to start a woman's professional basketball league. I don't remember the year, but I had several of them go there. Donna, Donna Orender and Althea Gwyn. And the other place at Gail Marquis - I'll tell you a little bit more about them. But they, a lot of them went to Europe to play basketball there, because it was, Europe was turning on to women's basketball, and they were recruiting a lot of the American players now to go there. So I had Debbie Mason, Gail Marquis, they they were All Americans, but Althea Gwyn, a six two, center, she was a Kodak All American. And that was really exciting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2753.0,2827.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Yeah. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2827.0,2828.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And, Gail, Gail Marquis made the Olympics in 76. So, and a lot my players, Donna, Donna Orendera made all regional teams. I had a lot of players making all regional teams. So that was exciting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2828.0,2848.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Any other big events from that time until the time - so in 1983, was that when you stopped being the head coach?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2848.0,2857.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: No, no, no, no. I coached up until 79.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2857.0,2861.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Oh, until 79.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2861.0,2862.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Yeah. Because I tell you, I took - I was, by that time, having to deal with everything was burning me out. I needed to get away from it. I couldn't - I was just, I was putting on weight. I wasn't sleeping. I was just, was, I had too many things I had to deal with. Not just developing the team, coaching them, but also having to deal with the issues in my department, or the sexism. I mean, right before the Garden game, for instance, I had major practice, and the chairman called me down to my office because the basketball, men's basketball coach was complaining about something that I had said, you know? And, here I had to leave practice to go down there at four o'clock to have this meeting. You know, it was like, it's just like - and the other thing is, well, at that time, the women in my department were not supporting me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2862.0,2929.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: They would be supportive to me on the QT, but they, and in terms of politics in the department, they were not standing up and they give her a chance, let her do what she has to do, blah, blah, blah, none of that. They were all, they were fearful for their, schedules or for their jobs or whatever it was. So I really was going it alone. And in 1979, I decided to quit or take a year off or something like that. And the president called me in and didn't want me to, didn't want me to quit. And, I said, that's it. I can't go on. There's no way I can go on. I can't teach my new classes and live my life and try to coach. It's like a full-time job, just coaching, you know? So, but then, so I gave it up for a year, and then I decided to come back. And, at this point, it was a Division 2 school. Before it was not, we were not in the NCAA structure of Division 1, 2, and 3 schools. And that happened in 1980, I think it was. And so now the chariman of the, we have a new chamber of department who declared for Division 2. And, I gave it a shot for a year, and then I decided I just didn't want to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=2929.0,3023.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And what was the program like after you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3023.0,3027.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: A disaster. I hate to say. The new chairman did not give a hoot about. His concept was, you know, everybody, all this, all the students should have an experience in athletics, but not at a high level necessarily. So that's what, that's where he went. So he really hired inept coaches, you know, people who weren't even in the college. I mean, like someone who coached a recreational team on the side or something like that was, it was - I met one of the players and I said, Well, who did you play for? She said, well, let's see. I played for this person my first year, and then this person my second year. So there was no continuity. Was a mess. It went downhill, but now it's come back somewhat. And the new coach, who's been there now for about 10 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3027.0,3089.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Okay. And you were involved in the Olympics, the Olympic Committee?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3089.0,3095.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Little bit. I was - I chaired the Regional Olympic Committee. And this, what this meant was you have tryouts, you get the word out to your region, and any aspiring young woman who wants to try out for the Olympics should come down to Queens College on this date or this date, and be interviewed and play and see what your skill level is. Try out, basically. So I was chairman of that committee and did send one recruit to the national tryouts. And that was Nancy Lieberman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3095.0,3135.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Oh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3135.0,3137.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And I was recruiting Nancy to come to Queens College, but at the time, after the Madison Square Garden game, and then, you know, money. Division 1 schools were starting to pour money into their programs. They recruited her away with sweet packages or whatever. So she went to Old Dominion University.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3137.0,3156.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3156.0,3157.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: And I lost somebody else to Boston University. I mean, by that time, yeah,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3157.0,3162.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: It was competitive. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3162.0,3164.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Very,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3164.0,3164.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Very competitive. And I know that you received many awards and accolades in your life. Can you talk about some of them? I know, in the Queens Hall of Fame and naming the gym after you, So talk a little bit about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3164.0,3179.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Oh, boy. Well, you know, it's nice to get awards, but it's very nice to be recognized for your work, actually. But that's not why I did what I did. Obviously, I was just impassioned to do. I mean, one time a reporter asked me right in the middle of a good season, maybe it was 76 or 75 or whatever, and, you know, why do you do this? And I said, Why [laugh], You know, it's a very interesting question. Because I'm committed to give women the opportunities that I never had. That's what, why, That's why. And it shows them, it gives them confidence. It gives them abilities to set goals, to work for those goals, to strategize in terms of how to achieve those goals, and how to work hard. All those things that you need in business. And as a matter of fact, I just, I'll get back to your question, but before then, while I was coaching, a woman came out, there was a book that was written, Managerial Woman, women, from board, from, Locker Room to Boardroom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3179.0,3265.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Right now that was in the seventies sometimes. I don't remember who the author was. But that just, it just gives you the whole picture. You know, you can't just be mealy mouth and stay in the, you know, you have to voice yourself. You have to have a plan. You have to use your smarts - whatever abilities you have. And that's the place of women, I think, you know. So anyway, as far as my, so anyway, that's why, when he asked me that question, that's what was really - you had to be a fighter also, because I had to fight for this whole thing the whole time I was there. I had to fight for what I, for what was happening for the program, to the program. And the awards. Well, I got into the New York City Basketball Hall of Fame, the Sports Writers Founders Award in 1991. The College is Queens College, Springfield College, Westchester State University. Now, all those Halls of Fame. Yes. and I don't remember anything else but the whole,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3265.0,3345.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: And they named the gym after you at Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3345.0,3348.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Well, they named, yeah, they named the gym after me at Queens College, which made me happy. And it was, it was nice to get those awards. Not as thrilling as coaching and winning and figuring out plays.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3348.0,3369.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: No, that's great. And then when did you leave Queens College? And did you, when did you leave Queens? Did you move out of Queens?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3369.0,3382.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: You mean like Astoria or,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3382.0,3384.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Yeah, like what was your sort of living arrangement?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3384.0,3388.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Well, when I went to Indiana University, I had lived there for a year, and then I went to University of Rhode Island University. And I was living there for three or four years. And that was a beautiful state. I loved living there. And then I went to Westchester State, and I was living there for four years. So by this time I was out of New York City for eight years, and I started to get homesick. So that's when I came back. And I lived in, I got an apartment in Kew Garden Hills and lived there for several years. And then the owner wanted the apartment, so I moved to Manhattan, on the east side of Manhattan, which was really nice, 55th Street. And then I bought an apartment, my own apartment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3388.0,3450.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: I was living there with a friend. And then I bought my own apartment on Central, not Central, West End Avenue, and lived there for a number of years, maybe, I don't know, nine or 10 years. I can't remember exactly. And then I moved to Central Park West and 81st Street, which was very nice. [Fran: Very nice.] Yeah. And then I had to sell the Astoria house, so I was there for a couple years until I got - sold it. And then I moved to Park Slope in Brooklyn, which is a very nice community. And now I'm mostly out here in South Hampton. And I go to Florida for six months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3450.0,3498.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Very nice. What are your, what do you see as the future of women's sports, and what are your, what are your hopes for the future of women's sports? Lucille.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3498.0,3518.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Wow. Yes. Well, I just hope that, you know, that they take the same opportunities that women, you know, that they have, that women have the opportunity to develop their abilities, you know, in sports or in other fields, but specifically in sports. I've watched the, I'm not really a watcher, but I watch a lot of tennis. And I watched this one professional basketball game, women's game. It was Seattle against the Las Vegas. And actually the movement and the shooting and the defense and the conditioning is outstanding. I have to say. Now, this is only, I think, by the turn of the century, I don't, I was watching collegiate games, and I didn't think that they had reached their potential yet in terms of training and strategizing and whatever. But now, I think they are exciting. They're as exciting as the men, I think, without being as physical as the men.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3518.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: They have more finesse, I think. They're faking their passes. They're doing a lot of exciting things. And even in tennis, it's, when you see, you know, some of these young women like Coco Gauff, who's not even 20 years old, and she's trained and she's a phenomenal athlete. It's very exciting. You know? So I think that's what. You know the other thing that happened with Queens, as we became more prominent in the City of New York, we had an effect on the men's program. The men's CUNY University men's units, there are 14 units in CUNY University, all had men's basketball teams. And they started to get their act together with their teams. And also the women who were playing recreational soccer in Prospect Park or, or Central Park, they were saying, Oh, why can't we get together and start a league? So we were an impetus, not just for women, but for other entities as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3600.0,3675.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Right, for the sports in general. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3675.0,3678.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: So we showed that it could be done, basically. So it was really a huge thing. But as I said, it was part of something, of a movement. And, you know, we could have been like a Babe Didrikson, you know, and not gotten any publicity, you know, and said, Oh, they, they were a great team back then and not gotten, you know what I'm saying? We got out there, we got people to come and watch and to listen and to get it out there and show them, put it right in their face, you know, when it comes to - And at the time when we were playing, when I was coaching, we were, and after, that time, even in the eighties, women were always shooting better at the free throw line than the men's professional league and the men's collegiate teams, they had a better average in shooting their free throws. So that's just one little example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3678.0,3729.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Yeah, no that's great. So those are the questions I have. Is there anything else you want to add, anything we missed or anything else you want to talk about or emphasize?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3729.0,3743.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: I just want to say that you know, the women move very slowly [laugh] when it comes to changing rules, let's say in women's basketball. You know, it went from this game that I had in junior high school where you were in a circle and you passed the ball from one person to another, to three on three, you know, three, six player basketball, and then the roving game before we got to the five player games. So, you know, to make - Oh, I remember one thing. I was on the Rules Committee back then, and you were - when we went six player - to six play a game, you were allowed one dribble, so one bounce, and then you had to pass ball, shoot the ball. And then 10 years later, we added a second bounce, bounce twice. Remember, five years went by before you can get the three dribbles, you know? That's how long it took women to really change. And it was having, they were always mavericks in our decades, in our centuries, you know, women for women's rights. But we were all controlled. I have to say that - that's what we were, and were acquiesced. But now, anyway, so that's, that's what I have to say about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3743.0,3828.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fran Kipnis: Oh, thank you so much. I'm going to stop the recording and then we'll just chat for just a minutes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3828.0,3835.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566/transcript/41684/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Kyvallos: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/86286/file/174566#t=3835.0,3837.824"}]}]}]}