{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/bk16m3420p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Desiree Cumberbatch Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eDesiree Cumberbatch discusses growing up and attending public schools in the Bronx and Brooklyn in the 1950s-1960s, and then attending Queensborough Community College and Queens College in the 1960s. She discusses the formation of the student group Black Concern at Queens College, which “came out of the need for classes and coursework that reflected Black people.” She describes meeting her future husband, Lawrence Cumberbatch, who served as chairman of the group, as well as a sit-in that the group staged in the spring of 1968.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/43480"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2023-04-03 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Tags"]},"value":{"en":["Queens College Alumni"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Desiree Cumberbatch (Interviewee)","Hwesu Samuel Murray (Interviewer)","Annie Tummino (Contributor)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1950s-1960s (temporal)","Hunts Point, Bronx, NY; Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, NY; Jamaica, Queensborough Community College, and Queens College, Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eDesiree Cumberbatch discusses growing up and attending public schools in the Bronx and Brooklyn in the 1950s-1960s, and then attending Queensborough Community College and Queens College in the 1960s. She discusses the formation of the student group Black Concern at Queens College, which \u0026ldquo;came out of the need for classes and coursework that reflected Black people.\u0026rdquo; She describes meeting her future husband, Lawrence Cumberbatch, who served as chairman of the group, as well as a sit-in that the group staged in the spring of 1968.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA\u0026nbsp;Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/243/566/small/cumberbatch_desiree_20230403_portrait_resized.jpg?1719585224","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - cumberbatch_desiree_20230403_full.mp4"]},"duration":4146.6,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/243/566/small/cumberbatch_desiree_20230403_portrait_resized.jpg?1719585224","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/243/566/original/cumberbatch_desiree_20230403_full.mp4?1719584889","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":4146.6,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Okay. This is Annie Tummino. I'm Head of Special Collections and Archives at Queens College, and today is April 3rd, 2023. This interview is taking place over Zoom, and the interview is being collected for Queens College Special Collections and Archives, as well as the Queens Memory Project. Today Hwesu Samuel Murray is going to serve as the interviewer. Hwesu, could you please say hello?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3.0,28.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Hello, everybody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=28.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: Great. And you'll be interviewing Desiree Cumberbatch. Desiree, can you please say hello?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=30.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Hello, everyone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=36.0,38.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Annie Tummino: All right, wonderful. I'll now be exiting the interview to let Hwesu take over and carry on. I want to thank you both so much for participating in this oral history program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=38.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Hi, Desiree. It's, it's good to see you. It's nice to be together again. I'm proud to be able to participate in this. We were schoolmates back in the day in the late sixties at Queens College and [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=51.0,69.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=69.0,69.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: We had some stuff that we went through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=69.0,74.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=74.0,74.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Well let me begin with the formalities of this. Please state your full name and spell your name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=74.0,82.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: The first name is Desiree, d e s i r e. And the last name is Cumberbatch, c u m b e r b a t c h.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=82.0,96.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And when and where were you born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=96.0,99.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I was born in the Caribbean, in a country at that time it was called British Guiana. It is now Guyana, G u y a n a, has been for a while. Just making a distinction in terms of when I was born and present times. I was born in Georgetown, which is the Capitol. [cross talk]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=99.0,133.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: What year?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=133.0,135.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I was born in 1946. I'm a baby boomer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=135.0,140.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: [laughs]. Where were your parents From?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=140.0,146.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: My biological father and mother were from Guyana. They lived there. I came to the United States when I was five. My mother and biological father were here. They subsequently divorced and my mother remarried some years later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=146.0,179.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Where did you live when you came to the United States?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=179.0,184.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I traveled to Seattle, Washington. That was where the plane was to land. However, there was a big snow storm. I actually landed in Toronto, Canada. But basically I lived in Seattle for I would imagine maybe a year or two, because I started school there, before we moved to this side of the world, [laughs] to new to New York. My mother came to her great-aunt, and we lived in the Bronx for a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=184.0,229.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay. So you came with your mother in what year?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=229.0,241.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, I came to the United States December, Christmas Eve, December, 1951. So that would probably have been about 1953 ish.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=241.0,253.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay. All right. Where did you go to school? Elementary school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=253.0,262.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I went to a number of elementary schools, because even back then, and at that time, it was not a common thing to have a single parent. That was back in the day when the Stepford Wives were [laughs] in existence. So I went to school in the Bronx and Brooklyn. I actually graduated sixth grade from P.S .44 in Bedstuy [Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn]. I went on to Junior High School 178, and I graduated from there. High school was Franklin K. Lane. I'm basically a city educated person. I went to Queensborough Community College and graduated and transferred to Queens College, and graduated and went on for my master's at NYU.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=262.0,323.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Excellent. Did you enjoy your elementary school years?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=323.0,330.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah, I would say I did. There were a total of, I think three elementary schools that I went to. One in the Bronx, P.S. 44, I'm sorry, P.S. 48. I actually went to P.S 44 in Brooklyn twice, because we lived on Madison Street, and I was in the third grade there. We moved back to the Bronx, and I lived in Hunts Point, and I went to P.S. 48. And then we moved back to Brooklyn Bedstuy, and I went back to P.S. 44. So there was a couple of times; it was really basically two schools, two very different schools. P.S. 44 is in Bedstuy, which is predominantly Afro-American at that time. P.S. 48, was mostly Caucasian of various ethnic groups. I was one of three Blacks in the school. I had some not so pleasant experiences there, but for the most part, my elementary and junior high school and high school years, were enjoyable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=330.0,431.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Do you have any particular, significant, important happy memories of your junior high school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=431.0,442.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Happy memories of Junior High? Well, yeah. One of the things that they did, I was telling a friend the other day, we had what they call assembly programs. And that was when, remember? You had to wear your white shirt and red tie. Yeah. And your black skirt, or black slacks, whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=442.0,469.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=469.0,471.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: They brought in entertainment and/or speakers. It was sometimes various schoolmates, might have had a little program of their own. I remember they brought in John Hope Franklin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=471.0,494.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=494.0,494.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Now, at that time, we didn't know who he was. He was a historian, but he was a Black man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=494.0,501.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=501.0,502.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: We were just in awe because they said historian, and they gave his background and they said he was from Oklahoma. I said, Oklahoma, I didn't know they were from Black people, [laughs] in Oklahoma, [laughs]. An aside to that, in much later years, as a matter of fact, just a few years ago, I found out that he was the son of an attorney in Oklahoma and that attorney was involved with that whole terrible massacre. The attorney was trying to get reparations or some sort of payment to people whose ancestors were, were killed in that slaughter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=502.0,553.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Tulsa,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=553.0,554.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Tulsa, Oklahoma, yes. The Tulsa riots. Anyway, the assembly programs, those were the enjoyable years. I remember they had Theodore Bikel. At that time he was just a folk singer (I say \"just\" because in later years he did some acting and some other stuff). But at that time, I guess he was fairly new or starting out. They had some African dancers. We looked forward to assembly programs. And the thing about it is that the way things worked, if you were not in your white and black or whatever, you couldn't go-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=554.0,604.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: [laughs]. That's right. That's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=604.0,605.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: You couldn't go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=605.0,606.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: P.S. 180 in Coney Island, the same thing, [laughs], you missed it. [laughs]. In my school, there was a very similar situation where we enjoyed our assembly programs as well. There was a teacher there named Kadish Millet, and he was a teacher who was a songwriter. A lot of the songs that we sang were songs that Kadish Millet wrote and became popular throughout the public school system, like the \"Wheels on the Bus go Round and Round\" [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=606.0,646.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Uh huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=646.0,647.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: The policeman, the fireman, all these different little civic minded things he used to do. \u003caffirmative\u003e. So we enjoyed it too. You went to Franklin K. Lane High School?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=647.0,657.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=657.0,658.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Tell me about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=658.0,661.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, that was an interesting experience. My cousin who was a year ahead of me had gone there. When we were in junior high school Thomas Jefferson and Franklin K. Lane were our choices. The choices for the people - we were zoned at that time, you couldn't just pick where you wanted to go. There was a lot of intrepidation about going to Franklin K. Lane, because it was surrounded by a cemetery. So I asked my cousin, I said, \"they keep telling me it's by a cemetery.\" She said, \"Oh we don't even pay any attention to that. You don't see any funerals or stuff like that. You have to go specifically to a certain part of the hall and so forth.\" So the thing about Franklin K. Lane was, and even I haven't passed in recently, but it was built in the thirties [1930s]. Magnificent looking school. You know, back in the day, they didn't just do these box things like they do now. It looked like a college campus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=661.0,742.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: This is in Brooklyn?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=742.0,743.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah, it's right on Jamaica Avenue and Dexter Court.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=743.0,747.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=747.0,749.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: At that time they had a field in front. I haven't passed it recently, so I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=749.0,761.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I started there when we lived in Brooklyn. There are a lot of little streets between Atlantic Avenue and Herkimer Place, Herkimer Street. We lived on a street called Louis Place. By then my parents and my... would be my 10th year, they moved to Queens. I still wanted to go to Franklin K. Lane because they I a friend and went to Adams, which was a zoned school for where I was going to live. She says, \"Oh, no, don't come over here\" [laughs]. She told me a couple instances of outright racism and whatnot. So I talked to my parents and they said, \"Well, why don't you go to the Dean?\" So I did. That was an experience, because they had a lady Dean who now, this is the 1960s, she dressed like the '40s [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=761.0,833.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Oh, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=833.0,833.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Everybody feared her; everybody, \"oh, you're going to see Ms. Manning?!\" So I bolsted myself up. I went to her and I said, \"my parents moved and I really would like to keep coming to this school. I could get the bus to the train real easy,\" blah, blah, blah. She said, \"Okay, have your parents write a letter.\" I was like, \"what?\" [laughs]? I expected to be strung up. I don't know what I expected, but she was just so nice. So I continued there. I graduated from there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=833.0,873.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: All right. Now, my recollection was that after you graduated from high school, you started off at Queensborough. Is that correct?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=873.0,885.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes. Queensborough Community. Okay. Yep.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=885.0,889.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And then did you at some point did you go directly to Queens College from Queensborough?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=889.0,896.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=896.0,897.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay, good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=897.0,898.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes. All right. I was a day student at Queensborough community. If you remember, in those days you had to have a certain average to get into the city, four [year] City Universities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=898.0,914.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: That's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=914.0,915.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: The four year city university schools. But you could go to a community college in the day if you did not have quite that average. And so I fell in that, into that category. And [laughs], you know, you ask one question you think is a simple answer, but Queensborough was a trek, even though I lived in Queens, I lived in what would be considered Jamaica. Queensborough was in Bayside. I had to take two buses and walk a long distance on Jamaica Avenue to get to it. It was a lesson in perseverance. But I saw students coming from Brooklyn-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=915.0,972.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Oh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=972.0,973.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: -who had a longer time. I said, \"oh my goodness.\" At that time the Jamaica L ran to 168th Street, and I would be walking down Jamaica Avenue as they were coming down [the train stairs]. Last stop was 168th Street, and we would wait together for the bus on the side of Mays. They had a store called Mays.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=973.0,1000.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I remember Mays very well. I bought a lot of records there [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1000.0,1003.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes. Yes. And that bus would take it seemed like forever. It ran down Horace Harding Boulevard all the way to Springfield Boulevard, which is where we got off. And we walked down a long hill. At that time, Queensborough was fairly recently established. They had one real modern building, of course, that was for the science people. They had something called the Clubhouse. It was formally a golf course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1003.0,1041.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1041.0,1042.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah. What they did was they rented out space in several Jewish Centers in, I'd say, a good circumference of the main buildings. It was up to you to get yourself over to those buildings after one class in time for another class. They did have some buses that they provided, but if you wanted to talk to your professor or whatever afterwards, you missed that bus. Then at one point [laughs] they had chartered buses in the parking lot. I think something happened with either the contract or the building itself. Temporarily, in order to have the classes continue, they brought in chartered buses. So we were actually having classes in chartered buses lined up in the parking lot. Just, you know, another perseverance type thing. You know, you don't give up and say, ah, the heck; you just keep going. Keep going.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1042.0,1125.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Just to be clear, in what part of Queens did you live for that long trip?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1125.0,1129.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, we lived on the on the border of Richmond Hill and Jamaica, which is Van Wick Expressway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1129.0,1137.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Oh, yeah. That's","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1137.0,1139.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: A long way. Yeah. So I would take either the Q nine or the Red Line bus to Jamaica Avenue, or as they call it, Archer Avenue. There was a little bus terminal there, but you had to walk from that terminal to 169th Street. I don't know how many blocks that is. It's maybe about five or six blocks, but those are long blocks. So time wise, you know, sometimes, you think, \"I'm just in Queens. How long could that take?\" But the waiting for the buses. And then the walk.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1139.0,1188.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah. Sometimes the weather would be bad, so","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1188.0,1191.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Oh, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1191.0,1193.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Tell me a little bit more about your mother and your stepfather. What would you like to share about who they were and what they did?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1193.0,1206.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, very interesting couple when you think of it. My mother was Caribbean, and my stepfather was from Arkansas. So I always like to tell people [laughs] I'm a product of both cultures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1206.0,1232.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: His family was a very quiet family. They didn't even socialize too much with each other, but my mother was more outgoing.They had a circle of friends, which was mostly to my mother's doing. At that time, people went to dances and different bus rides and, and things like that. So they were, you know, they were doing that. Their style, I guess you'd say, of childrearing. I think about it now and as a parent, I used to think they were very strict, but then there were some times when they let me, go somewhere or do something, and I was like, wow. But they seem to have a good handle on just how to release the reins, so to speak, with a young person. So I really sort of admire them because as I got, you know, to be a parent, I think I tended to be a little more overbearing. But, yeah, it was a good life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1232.0,1332.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Did you have any siblings?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1332.0,1334.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1334.0,1336.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: All right. And when did you realize that you were interested in going to college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1336.0,1347.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I realized that, I guess maybe even in junior high school, because I saw some people in different occupations. I realized that you needed a good amount of education to do that. My mother's cousin was a teacher. I would spend summers with him and his family, because he was off during the summer. I thought, \"oh that's great.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1347.0,1387.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1387.0,1389.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I kind of probably wanted something in that vein fairly early. But then I started taking an interest in psychology, and I think that came in in high school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1389.0,1406.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1406.0,1407.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1407.0,1408.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: All right. When you were looking at colleges in high school, what did you have in mind in terms of where you might want to study? Like maybe go down to an HBCU or go out west, or stay in New York? What were your thoughts in high school, if you can recall?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1408.0,1431.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, yes, I do. It's funny you should ask because I often think of that some of the friends that I had, they apparently had other relatives of friends that knew about the, the HBCU schools. I didn't. But a couple of my, as they would say, \"crew\" wanted to go to Hampton. So I thought, \"well, I'd like to go to Hampton too.\" So I sent for the brochures and whatever, and I talked to my parents at that time. I think we had recently moved to Queens, so they weren't too keen on it, number one for me going away. I could tell that financially that wasn't such a hot thing. So I turned my sights basically to staying in the city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1431.0,1498.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay. And just to look back at your childhood a bit, did you have like a group of friends with whom you were close or any particular persons, who were, you know, people that you had fun with or played with or partied with when you were in high school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1498.0,1520.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes and no. Since I had moved to Queens, I developed a few friends when my parents were friendly with a couple that lived in South Ozone Park, which was a stones throw from where we lived. Through them and through their children, I met some folks in the neighborhood. Then I went down to a church about a block away from the house. I met some other people who you would say would be my Queens friends, but I also had Brooklyn friends.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1520.0,1567.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1567.0,1568.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I never had, what would you say, a best friend, so to speak. I had lunch in the lunchroom, you know, there are certain people you would gravitate towards and stuff like that. So in Brooklyn, I had friends like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1568.0,1592.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Mm-hmm. When you got to Queensborough, did you participate in any extracurricular activities?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1592.0,1601.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes. In Queensborough, I joined the girls basketball team.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1601.0,1609.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Oh, really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1609.0,1610.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah. I wasn't too good. [laughs] But it was an activity that I liked. As a matter of fact, I have a friend [on the team] from all those years back that doesn't live too far from here. Every now and again, I say, remember when we were [laughs] on the thing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1610.0,1630.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: [laughs]. That's great. That's great. Yeah. So tell me about the transition from Queensborough to Queens College. Was that something you remember?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1630.0,1640.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, yeah. It was a fairly easy transition. It was a shorter trip, [laughs] number one. A couple of the professors that we had at Queensborough, because there was this little kind of a stigma thing, oh, you didn't get into Queens, but you're at Queensborough. So they said to us, you know what? We're gonna give you tougher work, so when you get to Queens College, you're not gonna have any problem. So the transition was very easy. One of the things, and you'll probably remember this, the 800 room. I think that's what they called it, the smaller cafeteria. Where a lot of the Afro-American students would gather as opposed to the, the huge cafeteria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1640.0,1709.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah, on a good day, we'd have two tables, you know, [laughs], maybe like a dozen people, tops. I mean, I came from Andrew Jackson High School, which was a large school, so it was quite an adjustment. But when you got to Queens College, was there anyone there you had already known?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1709.0,1736.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: No, but there were two or three of us who had transferred over from Queensborough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1736.0,1748.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1748.0,1749.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I've lost track of those, those girls. So, you know, I knew them and we would, again, if our classes allowed, we'd meet in the, 800 room. And then, you know, I started meeting other people. Since there were so few of us, we were all our own ambassadors to introduce our friends to each other. So little by little, that's how I met Richard Mangum and, oh, I can't think of some other names right now. Actually that's how I met Lawrence, my husband.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1749.0,1801.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Let's talk about Lawrence. Tell me about Lawrence. Larry Cumberbatch. When and where did you meet him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1801.0,1812.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I met Lawrence in the 800 room.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1812.0,1814.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay. That's where we all were [laughs]. Because when I got there, that was like the only place you would meet somebody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1814.0,1821.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah. Yeah. We were at the same table eating lunch one day, and I remembered","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1821.0,1827.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Well yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1827.0,1828.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1828.0,1829.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Your freshman year, I'm sorry, your junior year or your senior year?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1829.0,1833.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Oh, let's see. Now that would've been my junior year. It turned out that he was a transfer student as well. He had gone to Ohio University,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1833.0,1847.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Where he was with a fraternity brother of mine. But that's another story, [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1847.0,1852.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: He knew someone that you knew?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1852.0,1854.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah. James Moore, who lives in St. Albans, had gone out to Ohio University. So he knew Larry very well. So when I got to Queens College, I met Ricky, and I joined Kappa Alpha, that's where I met Jimmy Moore. Jimmy Moore had already known Larry Cumberbatch. So it was like a small world of people between New York and Ohio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1854.0,1887.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1887.0,1887.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: [laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1887.0,1887.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah. Well, the interesting thing is, when I saw Lawrence, and they said his last name was Cumberbatch. I looked at him closely. I used to live across the street from a music teacher on Madison. Matter of fact, for a little while, I took piano lessons from her. She had a son that was just about my age, but he didn't quite look like Lawrence. But then again, you know, I figured, well, so many years. So I said, \"is your mother a music teacher?\" And he says, \"no.\" So, [laughs], that was like, I guess what we just say now is the line that you used to make a conversation. But anyway, yeah. So that's where we met.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1887.0,1943.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay. And what was your major?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1943.0,1947.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, I started out majoring in psychology. But as you all know, with many of the classes in courses and areas of study you have to be careful to be in sync with certain prerequisites and blah, blah, blah. So somehow I got out of sync with one of the classes, a very important class called Experimental Psych. There were some other reasons. I was fearful of it because I'd heard of what how they marked. And, you know, most of it was really good information, but it was kind of scary. So I kind of delayed taking that class. So when I was ready, I was out of sync, but I had all my sociology, which was to be my minor. I had all my ducks in the row for that. So I switched, pretty much at the last minute, to sociology. So my major was sociology, and my minor was psychology, which in the beginning, that was switched around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=1947.0,2031.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: What year did you start at Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2031.0,2036.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I started in September of 1966, because I graduated from Queensborough in June of 1966.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2036.0,2046.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And you met Larry shortly after you got to campus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2046.0,2052.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah, I think so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2052.0,2053.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Mm-hmm. That makes sense. Because [laughs], there weren't a lot of people, a lot of Black folks there, and we tended to gravitate towards one another. So it was probably pretty easy to see a tall, good looking guy like Larry [laughs] walking into the cafeteria. I remembered him well, and he was, I gotta tell you, just to be honest with you, I don't mind telling this to anybody. I was very young and I admired Larry. He was a role model to me at a very young age. At some point, I imagine he told you about the March on Washington and his participation. Tell us about what he shared with you regarding the March on Washington.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2053.0,2109.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes. He must have, I don't know when he mentioned that, but I would think that it would've been before the summer of 1967, because, and the reason I say that is because even to this day, my son and I, whenever, August comes around and, they start showing the various clips of the March on Washington, we get very close to the tv to see if we could see him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2109.0,2150.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: [laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2150.0,2150.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Because he told us he was standing behind Martin Luther King.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2150.0,2156.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2156.0,2158.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: There was a whole bunch of them. And the reason he and several of his contemporaries were there, they had walked to Washington from New York City. Since that was a quite an unusual thing— and then there were some people who roller skated, I think, from Chicago. Or some other unusual thing. They allowed those people to be up on the podium behind speakers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2158.0,2192.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: \u003caffirmative\u003e. My recollection is that he was with Brooklyn CORE and was a very young member of Brooklyn CORE.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2192.0,2198.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes, yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2198.0,2199.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Congress of Racial Equality. Did he tell you about when and why he joined CORE?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2199.0,2207.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah. We also had gone, I don't know, much later in life to one of their gatherings. I wouldn't say it was a meeting, but they were honoring— at that time we had a representative, who had been a big part of CORE, I'll think of his name in a minute, Major Owens. So Lawrence spoke and he said that he got involved because CORE was protesting that there were no blacks on certain jobs, and they were protesting at Downstate. And other places he became involved when they were protesting outside of Downstate, they were building it. He mentioned that he would go to the meetings and he was very impressed with the CORE group. He said they were very organized. They were people who had other jobs, other things that they were doing. This was not the only thing. And he just admired them. He was the youngest at that time to be in that group. I think he was 15 or 16. He took away a lot of insight into people and just insight into life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2207.0,2338.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: When you were at Queens College and we were watching things happening during that time in terms of civil rights demonstrations across the country— there were the Watts riots, there were the Harlem riots. There were a lot of things happening during that time that affected all of us one way or another. Some people had a commitment to do something and other people, you know, had their own point of view. My recollection was that we had some fairly good times, but we also had some very passionate discussions about things that were happening in those days. Tell me what you recall about the founding of Black Concern.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2338.0,2399.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, Black Concern came out of the need for classes and coursework that reflected Black people that talked about Africa or the Black Renaissance or something. At that time when you applied for a college, you could get I guess you just call it a brochure, but it told about the college and it had a listing of the classes [ course bulletins]. You could flip through that and not see anything that related to Afro-Americans or even when you hit the part of the book that would talk about the sociology classes. Now, they talked a little bit about, \"the ghetto\" and the stuff like that, but we wanted to see some other stuff. So, I don't even remember how we first decided to approach the dean and the president.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2399.0,2480.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: If I may— forgive me— just a back first step. Tell me what you recall about the founding, like how it got started and who started it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2480.0,2492.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Was it already in existence, by the time you got to Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2492.0,2495.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: No, we started it. We started it. As I was saying it, I think we formalized it after the sit-in in the president's office. Or either around that time, maybe it was simultaneous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2495.0,2517.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: When you say we, whom do you mean?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2517.0,2521.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, the names of the people, there were several Black people, a lot of the SEEK students and the others who were not SEEK taking SEEK classes. I would say there were about 25 of us, and we had some meetings and we elected Lawrence as the chair. We came up with the name, I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2521.0,2554.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I remember Larry being the president. But was that the fall semester or the spring semester, of your junior year? Do you recall?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2554.0,2567.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: That was my—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2567.0,2570.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: My freshman year. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2570.0,2573.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: That must have been the fall of [19]67.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2573.0,2582.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: [19]67 or [19]66?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2582.0,2587.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I don't know that it was [19]66. I'm not sure of the dates, but I know that some of our activity took place in the spring of [19]68.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2587.0,2602.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2602.0,2603.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: You know, because I remember it was our graduating [year]— it was our last semester.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2603.0,2609.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2609.0,2617.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Anyway, we formalized it and we sat in in the president's office. Of course there was some little— you know, anytime you get a group of people trying to do anything, there's always some person who just brings a lot of trauma unnecessarily. And there was this guy who went and told some teachers that, Hey, you know, there's this group of black kids in there; they're talking about getting guns and shooting people and stuff like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2617.0,2657.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: What?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2657.0,2657.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah, they were talking about violence. So of course that wasn't true. There was a dean that got involved, I forgot what his name was; there's a letter that I have here someplace where Lawrence had written because they accused, and of course now at that point we were formalized, we were Black Concern, we were formalized. So Lawrence wrote a rebuttal to this guy's charges. Of course then we had to sit in and there was campus unrest all over in that year and and subsequent years for various reasons. Mainly to get a better curriculum. (Excuse me.) We were fairly successful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2657.0,2727.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: You mentioned the sit-in. Tell me what you recall about the decision to have the sit-in, the purpose of the sit-in itself and the results of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2727.0,2744.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: The purpose of the sit-in, as I recall, was to bring attention to the fact that nobody was paying attention to us in, in our request for other classes that, related to Afro-Americans. About that time, as I said, there were these allegations by this one person, a Black fella who brought a lot of strife to it. So I don't recall how we dealt with him, because it was supposed to be a big secret as to who it was that would go and tell the dean that he's been to our meetings and we are gonna get guns and stuff like that. Lawrence and I figured it out, figured out who it was, because the person wrote a letter to the dean and we said, \"Well, we'd like to see that.\" And he said, \"well, the confidentiality of the person\" and blah, blah, blah. And so the dean's staff person thought she had whited out the person's name, but there was one place that she had forgotten. But at any rate, our sit-ins and our— what you would say— confrontations, were all very well and calm and there was no trouble.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2744.0,2852.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Where was the sit-in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2852.0,2853.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: No fighting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2853.0,2854.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Where did it take place?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2854.0,2855.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: It was in the office of the president.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2855.0,2860.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: President McMurray?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2860.0,2862.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes. President of the college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2862.0,2863.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Joseph P. McMurray, if I remember correctly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2863.0,2866.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I believe that was his name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2866.0,2868.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And what, what happened? How long did it last and how many people showed up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2868.0,2876.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I think we sat in for, and then people coming and going from their different classes, we were able to get a good number, I would say at least 25, and at different points, because people were still going to their classes. The president was fairly accommodating. Once he found out that, and I guess he made his own assessment about the gun thing and realized it was false. It was not any big real confrontation. As a matter of fact [laughs] that president at graduation, because graduation was that June, these things were happening, like February and March. He quoted something that Lawrence had said in his address to the audience, to the graduates. I didn't, wasn't prepared to say what that was, but I remember sitting there and then hearing him say \"Yes and one of the students, Lawrence Cumberbatch said,\" blah, blah, blah. And we were like, [laughs], what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2876.0,2966.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: [laughs] this is graduation of [19]68?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2966.0,2969.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: 68, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2969.0,2971.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay. Were you, sit-in in his office or in the hallway in front of his office?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2971.0,2979.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I believe we were in the office. Okay. I believe it was in the office. There was a lot of space, so maybe it was, I don't know how large his office is, but it wasn't a cramped kind of a thing. We were comfortable sitting on the floor and whatnot. So it might not even have been the office, maybe a lounge. I don't know. I don't recall that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=2979.0,3005.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Sit-ins were pretty frequent all over the country, especially in New New York City in those days. How long did this one last?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3005.0,3013.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I remember that we only did it for that one time. Okay. It wasn't something that we had to keep doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3013.0,3019.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3019.0,3020.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: You Know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3020.0,3022.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Because like the following year, was it the following year? Yeah, [19]69. I remember the SDS [Students for a Democractic Society] people were in the Academic Building. They were there for like two weeks or some very long period of time. And at Columbia, you know, the famous thing at Columbia was much longer and much more publicized and, you know, a far different outcome. What do you recall as the result the sit-in, in terms of what the president said or did or what was done in terms of response to the sit-in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3022.0,3060.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: What I recall is that there were promises. Okay, so we, as Black students, we had the little presence of mind about what was happening. Some people were really gung ho with the Black power kind of thing. But we were, I guess the opposition would say we were very docile. There wasn't any raucous kind of a sit-in and there wasn't, you know, a whole bunch of shouting and things like that. So we were promised that they would look into seeing about getting, other classes. They understood that there were no guns involved and no threat of any kind of violent actions and stuff like that. So I think we thought we had done something. In the eyes of some of the more, as you said, radical people on other campuses, maybe we were not radical enough. But it seemed as though things would be changing now. For many of us, you know, Ricky, Lawrence, myself and maybe one or two others, we would be leaving. We would be graduating. So we were not going to see the real benefit of what we were asking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3060.0,3168.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I got involved with Black Concern late in my second semester at Queens College, which was like January, February, March of [19]67. I was on the track team. I was pretty much studying pretty hard. But I remember those [laughs], I remember those meetings, and I remember getting together at those tables. You know, it was a dynamic period of time, and I was a young man and my life was changing. All these things were happening outside of my world and inside of my world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3168.0,3211.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3211.0,3212.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I'm trying to study, and at that time I was still playing the trumpet, so I was, I was playing the trumpet with the band and still in the track team.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3212.0,3219.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3219.0,3220.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: There was a lot happening. But that little group of people, to me was very important because I recognized it as something very dynamic. I recognized it as young, brilliant Black students who had a voice and had an eagerness to talk about change and talk about where we go forward, what we do for the future. It was very important to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3220.0,3248.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: My recollection of the following year after you and Larry graduated was there was this much larger influx of Black students from SEEK, and that kind of absorbed what we had already started with Black Concern. They brought with them some well-known names, some people who had experience at Columbia. It was just a much larger group of Black students. So that changed the dynamics considerably. My recollection when I spoke with you previously was that you informed me of some work that was done similar or in subsequent to Black Concern in, in South Jamaica.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3248.0,3305.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Oh, yes. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3305.0,3306.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Tell me about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3306.0,3308.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: The summer of 68, Well, we have to add this, that Martin Luther King was killed in that spring.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3308.0,3321.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Right. In fact, tomorrow's the anniversary. Marking the anniversary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3321.0,3324.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Exactly. Yes. Just as an aside, that was a strange thing on the campus because some of us had heard about it. I remember there was a small group of us that sat— it wasn't at the 800— we sat someplace, and we just were like almost devastated, but we were like shoring each other up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3324.0,3358.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: But getting back to the summer of [19]68, yes, there were a few of us who were involved in what we call the SPADE Program— Special Program for Aid Development and Enlightenment. That was something that Black Concern sponsored. It was a summer program, we got a small grant, um, and we rented [laughs] what would be considered a storefront on South Road in South Jamaica.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3358.0,3402.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: There were, I think about four or five of the Black Concern people who actually worked. Others came by every now and again to see how things were going. What we did was, we put the word out that this organization was here. Now remember, this is [19]68. There have been numerous, organizations since then doing just about the same thing. But this was sort of innovative. We told the children to tell their parents, and we provided community information about sanitation and what agencies to contact and all that kind of stuff. Stuff that the community boards do now, we started out trying to do. The interesting thing about it— we also had a little, to some degree like a little summer program, a daycare program for the young people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3402.0,3487.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Two of the people who were actually a part of the core of the work staff were education majors. So they were helping the kids to read and hey were doing little lights, artsy craftsy things, with them. But the major thing that I remember for all these years is, we took them on trips. I didn't go on all the trips because my function was to be more or less an office person. But we took them back in those days on a bus trip to Corning, New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3487.0,3537.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3537.0,3538.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: To the glass factory. It was a well attended trip. It meant getting home late at night. We asked for parents to come. They came; a lot of people came with their children on this trip. The children in general came from the South Road, I guess you'd call them projects, but they were not the sprawling high rise projects.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3538.0,3572.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Those projects I think were about five or six stories at the most over there. But at any rate, that was quite an interesting trip. And that was just one, they went to some of the local places. I think it was maybe a trip a week. I can't remember all the different places, but the other times they were in that little storefront area, doing little artsy craftsy things and whatnot. And then [laughs] the last day of the program, when we closed it out and whatnot, we had a block party. Okay. That was the time James Brown had the song out. I'm Black and I'm proud. That was also a time when, I guess for a while, the DJs were out in the street with their music. So, that era was coming in and so it was quite a big event. I often wonder what happened to some of those young people that we met with and helped during that summer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3572.0,3670.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Well, that's remarkable. There are very few instances where you can point to a situation where a college student organization had, you know, subsequent impact in the so-called real world. It's good that you were able to remember that. This [laughs] has been a remarkable experience for me remembering this, this material in those days, um, as they were important to me. Is there anything else you would like to share in terms of what you remember about your Queens College experience?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3670.0,3713.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: No, I think it was a very enjoyable experience for the most part. You know, as a college student, well, most people, I think your focus is, boy, I wanna hurry up and get outta here. [laughs]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3713.0,3738.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: So, you know, at that time it was slightly different. As I said, we did meet in the 800 room, but there wasn't a whole lot of hanging out. Everybody was pretty much focused. We would come and eat and we didn't hang out with each other on the weekends. Only once in a while. I know Ricky Magum and you all had your parties and I went to one in Manhattan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3738.0,3778.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Kava castle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3778.0,3779.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3779.0,3780.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I still go [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3780.0,3784.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: But we, most of the young people had, you know, friends outside of the college and on the weekends, would go to the various, well, I guess you call them clubs, but they were dance places mostly. Sure, yeah. I've forgotten the names of them. Cheetah was one in Manhattan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3784.0,3809.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Dome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3809.0,3809.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah. And some others. So we didn't really hang out together. The core of Black Concern or those who hung out in the 800 room, we were together while we were on campus. Well, except for Lawrence and I; we became good friends and so on. But it was a purposeful friendship or gathering or something. There would be maybe one or two people who, you know, you'd see, you'd leave, you'd go to the 800 room, have your lunch, maybe you had a break, then you'd rush off to class, one or two classes, and then you'd come back and you'd see that person sitting and you'd say, [laughs] \"you've been here?\" [laughs]So there's always like one or two people who do that. But most of the time, everybody had a goal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3809.0,3871.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Excuse me. When and where did you and Larry get married?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3871.0,3876.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: We got married in 1969 at the little church down the block that I mentioned in Queens. We moved to, I moved to Brooklyn. It was to an apartment actually, where his parents lived, where he had lived in the same building. That's how we were able to get that, because my father-in-law, who was a very outgoing person, would chat with people and whatnot. This older Jewish couple told him that they were gonna move. So he got the details and all we went to see them and so on. That's how we got the apartment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3876.0,3926.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: What part of Brooklyn were you in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3926.0,3928.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Well, that's considered Crown Heights.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3928.0,3931.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3931.0,3931.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yeah. St. Mark's Avenue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3931.0,3933.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Oh, I know it well, [laughs], what was the cross street? Do you remember?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3933.0,3938.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Nostrand Avenue. Nostrand and New York. The thing about that block was, it was and still is a strange lot. They have a public library there. The building next to the public library was, is still an elaborate, very nice building. Both my brother-in-laws and their wives lived there, but they would always say, you know, who used to live here? Shirley Chisholm [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3938.0,3972.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Ah, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3972.0,3973.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: I think even to this day, they have a doorman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3973.0,3979.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3979.0,3980.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: And even back then, we kept saying, \"don't give that up.\" You know, because there were other issues with the landlord. That's over the years. And then we would say, you know, whatever you do, don't give that up. And then I don't think they did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3980.0,3999.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I was very sorry to hear that Larry had passed and you may recall that we saw him last at the Memorial for Ricky. Larry, as I recall, went to, did he go to NYU Law School?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=3999.0,4013.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes, he did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=4013.0,4014.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: My recollection was that he worked with W. Haywood Burns in a firm in Harlem?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=4014.0,4024.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Yes. For a little while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=4024.0,4029.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Because I met Haywood before I started law school at Michigan. I was working for Channel 13 and Haywood Burns— Haywood was a member of the National Conference of Black Lawyers. There was a man named Lennox Hines, and I was producing a show, a feature for Channel Thirteen's The 51st State. I got to interview Lennox Hines and Haywood Burns, and later became a member of the National Conference of Black Lawyers. I remember seeing an article in, maybe Ebony Magazine, a black enterprise with Larry in it, and, mention of Haywood Burns. I was very proud of that because, you know, Larry was, like I said, someone I really admired as a young person and became a prominent attorney. There are a few couples who met at Queens College who got married. A couple of them still married, you know, living in St. Albans, living in Brooklyn, different parts of the country. I remember you and Larry very well. Those were were great days. I thank you for allowing me to participate with this with you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=4029.0,4120.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Oh, this has been enjoyable. It's always nice to— you know, you can't really talk about this stuff to too many people these days because they don't know and they're not even interested. [laughs] But it's been an enjoyable experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=4120.0,4135.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah. Well, you take care. God bless. And let's keep in touch, okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=4135.0,4139.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566/transcript/68252/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Desiree Cumberbatch: Okay. And thank you very much. Okay. All right. Bye-Bye.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/69750/file/243566#t=4139.0,4146.6"}]}]}]}