{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/bg2h70903w/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Hwesu Samuel Murray Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eHwesu Samuel Murray is an attorney and author with a distinguished academic career and a history of involvement in student activism at Queens College in New York City.  In the interview, Murray discusses his experiences growing up in Gravesend Bay near the Coney Island neighborhood of Brooklyn as well as the social and cultural environment of the St. Albans neighborhood of Queens where he lived with his parents after they purchased a home there in his youth.  Murray delves into the educational and professional background of his parents and their influence upon his academic pursuits and success.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAn exceptional student and athlete, he further talks about his educational foundation at Andrew Jackson High School as well as his time as a member of his school’s extremely talented track team.  Murray later relates his experiences as a student attempting to balance his coursework, athletics, and activism while attempting to maintain a vibrant social life.  As an activist at Queens College, Murray was heavily involved in the group Black Concern with like-minded students and faculty who advocated for the inclusion of Black and African studies into the curriculum of various disciplines at CUNY and pushed for the hiring of Black faculty.  While an undergraduate student, Murray worked as a tutor for multiple students in the SEEK program (Search for Education, Elevation, and Knowledge Program) which was begun in 1965 to help socially and economically disadvantaged students to be able to pursue a college degree from the CUNY school system.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eHis experience as a tutor and student activist in the late 1960s at Queens College gives Murray unique insight into the social and cultural dialogue surrounding Black scholarship, student movements and unrest, and Black representation and experience in academia and the arts.   He provides a first-hand account of various notable events of student unrest on the Queens College campus including the occupation of a campus building by members of Students for a Democratic Society and Ad Hoc Committee to End Political Suppression as well as demonstrations led by SEEK students at the time.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/40429"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2021-06-21 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Tags"]},"value":{"en":["Queens College Alumni"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Hwesu Samuel Murray (Interviewee)","Obden Mondesir (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College SEEK History Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1950s-1970s (temporal)","Harlem, Greenwich Village, Coney Island, NY and St. Albans, Cambria Heights and Queens College, Flushing, Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eHwesu Samuel Murray is an attorney and author with a distinguished academic career and a history of involvement in student activism at Queens College in New York City. \u0026nbsp;In the interview, Murray discusses his experiences growing up in Gravesend Bay near the Coney Island neighborhood of Brooklyn as well as the social and cultural environment of the St. Albans neighborhood of Queens where he lived with his parents after they purchased a home there in his youth. \u0026nbsp;Murray delves into the educational and professional background of his parents and their influence upon his academic pursuits and success.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eAn exceptional student and athlete, he further talks about his educational foundation at Andrew Jackson High School as well as his time as a member of his school\u0026rsquo;s extremely talented track team. \u0026nbsp;Murray later relates his experiences as a student attempting to balance his coursework, athletics, and activism while attempting to maintain a vibrant social life. \u0026nbsp;As an activist at Queens College, Murray was heavily involved in the group Black Concern with like-minded students and faculty who advocated for the inclusion of Black and African studies into the curriculum of various disciplines at CUNY and pushed for the hiring of Black faculty. \u0026nbsp;While an undergraduate student, Murray worked as a tutor for multiple students in the SEEK program (Search for Education, Elevation, and Knowledge Program) which was begun in 1965 to help socially and economically disadvantaged students to be able to pursue a college degree from the CUNY school system.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eHis experience as a tutor and student activist in the late 1960s at Queens College gives Murray unique insight into the social and cultural dialogue surrounding Black scholarship, student movements and unrest, and Black representation and experience in academia and the arts. \u0026nbsp; He provides a first-hand account of various notable events of student unrest on the Queens College campus including the occupation of a campus building by members of Students for a Democratic Society and Ad Hoc Committee to End Political Suppression as well as demonstrations led by SEEK students at the time.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public 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Murray_Hwesu_Samuel_by_Mondesir_Obden.mp4"]},"duration":4317.888,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/163/582/small/Screenshot_2022-07-28_155101.png?1659037946","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/163/582/original/Murray_Hwesu_Samuel_by_Mondesir_Obden.mp4?1659037304","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":4317.888,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: To the cloud, I'm going to, so today's date is June 21st, 2021. My name is Obden Mondesir. I am collecting this oral history for the Queens College Special Collections and Archives. As well as Queens Memory around Black activism or just the student experiences that have been ex– that have happened at Queens College and I am with Hwesu Samuel Murray. And, Mr. Murray, could you spell your first and last name?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=0.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: H W E S U [pauses] M U R R A Y [spells out the letters].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=45.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. And then could you tell me the year that you were born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=51.0,57.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: 1949. I'm a 49er.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=57.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: [laughs] Okay. And then, as I mentioned before, could you could you tell me about your parents?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=60.0,71.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yes, my, my mom passed 2012. Her name was Eugenie Hilda Lewis Murray. My father's name is Samuel Moses Murray, Dr. Samuel Moses Murray. He lives in St. Albans, Queens. My mother was born in New Orleans in 1927. My dad was born in Yemassee, South Carolina in 1928. They came from very humble beginnings and both lost their parents when they were very young. My father came to New York when he was 16. My mom came to New York when she was 10. And they met in Harlem in 1947, and, you know, ironically, one of the things they used to to do when they were dating was go to the Renaissance, which was located in Harlem and right around the corner from Abyssinian Baptist Church. And ironically that facility was, was closed for many years; and then it reopened and it became the New Lafayette Theater. So I wound up going there later, when I was, when I was in, you know, when I came out of college and dating. So I wound up going to the same facility that my parents dated in when they were young.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=71.0,156.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: My mom worked for the city of New York. She was a senior stenographer for Department of Social Services. My dad was a firefighter and he rose through the ranks to become Captain. He started off as a New York City Transit, in the subways, then became a bus driver, then went to the to the Fire Department. And he was a very determined person when he was younger and continues to this day. He's –God's blessed me, I saw him yesterday, Father's Day– he's 92 years old and still vigorous. He's probably one of the few people from Yemassee, South Carolina, who went on to get his doctorate. He got his doctorate at Fordham University. He got his professional degree and his Master's at Fordham, but he got his undergrad degree at good old Queens College. And my mom had a year of college at Tuskegee Institute before she met my dad and they learn– they had similar subjects of interest when they were studying involving printing and typesetting. So while they were dating, they were– they would talk about the kinds of things they had learned. My mother did not return to Tuskegee and they were married in 1948 and I was born in 1949.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=156.0,247.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Very importantly in 1963, we moved from Brooklyn, from the Coney Island section of Brooklyn to St. Albans. They were very shrewd people. They– my dad is still shrewd– they bought a house in St. Albans and it was a wonderful experience being a young Black man, boy at the time, and watched your house get built, you know, out of the dirt, which was a very unique experience. And St. Albans as you know is a fairly historical place. I was born in Harlem. We moved– we lived in Harlem until I was about four and a half then we moved to Brooklyn. And then they bought the house in Queens when I turned thirteen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=247.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And then in regards to this move to Queens, from Brooklyn to Queens, some of what I've heard with folks of your generation, New Yorkers of your generation, that this was part of like this Black migration towards like home ownership where it wasn't something that could really happen in Brooklyn, but like there was much more opportunity in Queens. Is that something that you would agree to?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=300.0,324.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: This– I don't know the figures, and I don't know the numbers because there was significant home ownership in Harlem, in terms of brownstones before people migrated to Queens. That may be true. It sounds plausible. Certainly there was a lot more space and certainly in terms of domicile. I mean, you know, there's a big difference between having a full, you know, colonial house or Tudor or whatever it is, as opposed to a brownstone on a city block. So that sounds plausible. And I would include not just Queens, but also people who lived out, moved out to places like Babylon and Wyandanch, Roosevelt, or Hempstead. A lot of people, you know, left Harlem and Brooklyn in the mid sixties after the Harlem Rebellion of 1964. I guess it was a lot of disturbance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=324.0,385.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And a lot of people who had been living in those areas felt it was time to move and they moved out to Queens. So a lot of the people I knew in Queens had relocated from Harlem. I don't know how many of those people had home ownership, but certainly there was a great opportunity that a lot of people didn't know about. A lot of people still to this day don't really understand the importance of Southeast Queens and how that migration took place from places like Harlem, places like Brooklyn into St. Albans, and then eventually Cambria Heights, Laurelton, certainly Springfield Gardens, and, you know, throughout Jamaica and South Jamaica.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=385.0,442.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I guess getting back to this home that you got to watch built, could you describe the first home that you grew up in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=442.0,451.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah, I guess it's called a colonial. It's an attached house. And I was there yesterday. We had a wonderful time for Father's Day, with my wife and my son and my oldest daughter, and my brother. It was a blessing to go through that. We moved from, we were in the Gravesend Houses in Coney Island, which is at the time it was like garden apartments. I mean, it was right on the bay, you know, they had a beautiful brand new facility. You know, the houses in those days that the public housing in those days at that time was, like I said, like garden apartments. You couldn't even, you weren't even allowed to walk on the grass. You know, the cops would chase you off the grass.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=451.0,502.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: That's how new was. And we were right on the bay, Gravesend Bay. We had a sea breeze. We also had, you know, really tough winters with the atmospheric snowfall. And of course the, ocean was right, you know, it was like four blocks from where we live. So what we called \"the amusement area\" \n[Ed. note: or \"the rides\"], everyone else calls \"Coney Island\". And, yeah, it was a dramatic shift because things started to change. We were, we lived there during the fifties and the mid-fifties to late fifties and to like I said, '63.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=502.0,542.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: So, yeah, things in Brooklyn were starting to get kind of edgy. There were legendary gangs that were going throughout the borough, like the Marcy Chaplains and, and the Bishops and the Roman Lords and the Mighty Young Vikings and all these guys. And, you know, I was coming of age. So I was, I was beginning to have some minor interaction with some of these guys. So we left Brooklyn at that particular time. And, you know, some of my dear, dearest friends of my life remained there, and many had productive lives. Others, you know, perished in Vietnam, but, you know, it was like part of the slice of life that many people, many Black people experienced throughout communities in America. But yeah, that house [in St. Albans] was really special. I had my own room to study, which was really important. I walked to Andrew Jackson High School, which was like about, I don't know, I guess a little about, not even half a mile, it was a little bit more than a quarter of a mile. You know, it was really a wonderful experience. And, I had some cousins. My father's brother had a house in Springfield Garden. So when I first got to Queens, I stayed with them because our house wasn't ready. So I lived with them [Ed. note: nine cousins in total] and my cousin, my dear cousin, Jesse, was at Andrew Jackson. So when I got there, she showed me the ropes and I met a lot of young people, and yeah, then we moved into our house, and it was, it was just a wonderful experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=542.0,651.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And then, I guess, could you describe the neighborhood in St. Albans? Like, what was it like growing up there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=651.0,663.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Well, St. Albans, is a very unique place because, there's a portion of St. Albans called Addisleigh Park, which has very large homes, very opulent homes. Famous people lived there. The biggest house that I can recall has these beautiful Greek pillars, it's just off Linden Boulevard. And I found out later in life that it was owned by Babe Ruth. But when we were, when I was living there, Count Basie [William James \"Count\" Basie] had a home there, Brook Benton, James Brown. James Brown had a house on Linden Boulevard. It was a big Tudor house and he decided to paint the house black. So he painted his whole house black. And then in '69 there was this big snowfall and James Brown's house had a large awning in front. And the snowfall was so heavy that it made the awning collapse, but the house was intact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=663.0,724.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And, you know, other famous people like Floyd Patterson, Illinois Jacquet \n[Jean-Baptiste \"Illinois\" Jacquet], quite a few other famous people who lived there. Some, and of course, some like Billie Holiday lived there before we got there. But yeah, it was really nice. So our house was like about a mile away from that area, but it was quiet. And it was the big difference between living in Brooklyn and living in Queens– that I at that time found amazing– because it was, because of the noise level and the population in Brooklyn. You know, it's [Brooklyn] just kind of dense and you can always hear someone outside communicating [laughs] we'll say with their neighbors, from the sidewalk to the window, communicating from one side of the street to the other, or from one block to the other. And that communication sometimes was a bit boisterous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=724.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And, you know, we had scooters in those days [in Coney Island]. I mean, we had in our community, we had a playground, so we would make scooters out of milk crates, two-by-fours. And you take an old roller skate, and you hammer the front to the front of the two-by-four, hammer the back to the back of the two-by-four, nail the milk crate to the two-by-four, put some wooden handles on, you've got transportation. And the sound of 25 little boys roaring through the houses, the area on their scooters. It was amazing. And Kaiser Park was right across the street. So we had a beautiful park with quarter mile track, which was the first track I ever ran on, not knowing that later on that I'd be, you know, a track man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=780.0,837.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And it was just, it was just wonderful, you know, people call 'em projects, but we just call 'em home and it was nothing like what people associate with, you know, that term today. It was safe. It was relatively quiet. There was, there were no drugs, there were no gangs. It was, you know, a great place to be a kid. And, you know, you're living in Coney Island. So you're not far from, you know, some of the most amazing sights in the world. From my parents' bedroom window, we could see the parachute jump. And, you know, in the distance you could see the Wonder Wheel. And, you know, living in that area was amazing. [Ed. note: Murray and family could see fireworks from that window on summer nights]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=837.0,880.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Queens was different, because it's just absolutely quiet. I mean, you don't have the kind of communication we had [in Brooklyn], you know, from a hundred yards away with people talking to each other. You didn't have multi-level buildings, you had single family homes; and in fact, when we first moved there, the street hadn't even been paved. It was a dirt street for, I can't remember, it was some period of time, I guess, probably as long as maybe a year and a half, two years before they actually paved that street. So we were,– the house is right on 120th Avenue and the Q4A bus would turn up 201st Place, make a, an end around to go down to Springfield Boulevard, then turn back up Springfield Boulevard before it would continue over 120th Avenue. After they paved the street in front of our house [120th Avenue]. [Previously] the whole area where our house was, was cherry orchard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=880.0,942.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: So my friends would tell me about, you know, cherry orchard, where they used to pick cherries. When they finally paved the street, the bus would be able to come through and this goes straight down 120th Avenue and up the hill into Cambria Heights. And there was very little traffic, certainly not like they have, like what's there now. It's very little traffic, very quiet. I, you know, I was a kid mowing grass, raking leaves, you know, watering the grass in the summer. So the entire feeling was different. The, the nearest playground was up in Cambria Heights. So unlike, you know, having the scooters and the bicycles riding through the area, we, there was like a central location where all the kids went to play. And I saw some great basketball players, up in Cambria Heights.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=942.0,1001.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And we had some great times out there. We'd play handball. There was a big baseball field. There's still, it's still a lovely park in Cambria Heights. But like I said, it's a big difference between the collectivity, the connectivity of all the kids being in one, in a central location. And then when you're in private homes, you're scattered and everybody is separated. But it was, you know, it was just absolutely quiet [in St. Albans]. You could hear the birds chirping [laughs]. And, it was a big change and obviously a pleasant change. Because it was, you know, I guess you'd call that the, the \"American Dream\", a Black family gets a house in Queens and lives a quiet life. And my dad, you know, was a firefighter risking his life every day. My mom –bless her soul– was going to work. And you know, one of the interesting things was – it's well documented– when we first got there Springfield Boulevard was like two blocks away. And that was sort of like an unofficial Mason-Dixon line because on our side of Springfield Boulevard, I guess that's east of, that's west [correcting himself] of Springfield Boulevard was predominantly Black and east of Springfield Boulevard was Cambria Heights and it was all white. And over time, you know, that those demographics changed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1001.0,1099.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: What do you think was the time span of that, those demographics? Well, you mentioned that it was documented, so over time it changed and like–.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1099.0,1109.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah, it was primarily in the seventies, primarily, you know, in the early to mid seventies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1109.0,1116.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: All right. Yeah. And then, I guess, I would love to start talking about your experience with education. Could you first tell me about the elementary school that you attended?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1116.0,1132.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah, it was PS 188. It was on Neptune Avenue. It's still there. It's been renamed after the brother of one of my classmates. The school's now called the Michael Berdy School and it was named after Michael Berdy, who was a West Point graduate and was the brother of one of my classmates [Andrew Berdy]. And, Michael perished in Vietnam. It was, at the time, it was a well integrated school. And I got a good solid education at that school. [Murray recently learned that, when he was 10 years of age and in the 5th grade at P.S. 188, he qualified for MENSA, which he joined this summer].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1132.0,1169.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And then from there, did you attend Andrew Jackson or another High School?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1169.0,1175.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah, I went to Mark Twain Junior High School [now Mark Twain Intermediate School for the Gifted and Talented], which was I guess like about, you know, half a mile up Neptune Avenue from PS 188. And it was, it was a fine school. Now it's a magnet school it's I.S. 239. And it was a fine school. We got a great education. I skipped the eighth grade in what they call the SP program and went from seventh grade to ninth grade. When I was in the seventh grade, I had what they, you know, you take these tests and, I had a 12th grade reading level in the seventh grade. And, that was, you know, I felt good about that. I felt good about that. I was the Vice President, I was the Vice President of the General Organization in the ninth grade. And we had, you know, I had a great time. I learned French in junior high school. And then we moved at the end of my – that's, that was a middle school– so it was seventh, eighth and ninth grade. So when we moved to Queens, after I finished the ninth grade, I started Andrew Jackson in the 10th grade.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1175.0,1259.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: You started Andrew Jackson at 10th grade. And I know that you were at Andrew Jackson for fairly a shorter amount of time than most people considering that like in my time there was a ninth grade; and also you graduated at 16, but, I guess, describe what it was like being at Andrew Jackson. Like, what are some of the things that you remember the most?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1259.0,1285.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Well, it was a wonderful school. It was a well integrated school. My recollection was, there was about 60% white, about 40% Black and had very high academic standards. It had the greatest high school track team, I think of all time [Ed. note: the team was P.S.A.L. Outdoor City Champs in 1965]. And I was fortunate to be a member of that team. I wasn't a star on the team cause I was very young [Ed. note: 14 years old as a junior], But I was there. I made, you know, I made my contribution. We had some famous people. I don't know if I can name, use the names now, but I can say that one, one fam– there's a group called the Shangri-Las. Shangri-Las, were a female singing group who had a couple of big hits, one of which was called, \"Leader of the Pack.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1285.0,1337.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: They were in at Jackson when that song came out. There's a guy named Joe [Morton] who became a famous actor [Ed. note: in motion pictures and on television]. There's a young lady [Susaye Greene] who later became one of the members of the Supremes. There's a famous lady [the late Lani Guinier] who worked in federal government and is a Harvard professor. There's a guy who ran for President of the United States [Ed. note: Al Keyes], who was one of my buddies on the track team. He was, he's a very conservative brother. And you know, we had some really sharp people, athletes, academic stars. One of the things that that happened for me was in my senior year, my last semester of my senior year, they offered, they offered to me and to other, a small other group of people a full year of Russian in one semester. So I figure, okay, you know, I'll try Russian, see what it's like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1337.0,1405.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And it was, you know, I guess I imagined that it was because of, you know, the ending with the remnants of the Cold War. They wanted a lot more people to learn Russian quickly. So I got a year Russian in, a year of Russian in one semester. Famous people like Bob Cousy [Ed. note: famous basketball star] And others had graduated from Andrew Jackson. It has, had a sterling reputation. In recent years, the school was divided and is now known as \"Campus Magnet.\" And it was just a very large facility that had social problems and academic problems. And the city decided– and then Andrew Jackson's name became notorious– so the city decided to rename the school, divide it into four parts, and Campus Magnet is now the new name. And, the track, the athletic teams are comprised of, actually, students from four schools under one roof.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1405.0,1472.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And Andrew Jackson, when I was there [shakes his head, smiling], there were some guys who set, there was a guy named Julio Meade – rest his soul– who was one of the greatest athletes of all time in high school. And he was unique because he was a record holder at, at the hundred yard dash. A record holder on the, that is a half mile in the national record, two mile relay. He won the Golden West competition in the 440 and tied the national record at 440. And he also ran cross-country and did extremely well in cross-country. So it's very rare where you can have someone who's that talented at distances that go from sprint to cross-country [Ed. note: At Kansas University, he was on an N.C.A.A. Championship Mile Relay on the N.C.A.A. Championship team].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1472.0,1475.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Vince Matthews is the pride of Andrew Jackson High School. He won an Olympic gold medal in 1968 as a member of the metric mile relay with Larry James, Ron Freeman, and Lee Evans. In 1972, Vince won a gold medal in the 400 meters. And we all remain proud of him. [Ed. note: Matthews also set or was apart of two world records]. The relay team [1966 Andrew Jackson team], the two mile relay team of Julio Meade, Bill Jacobs, Sam Thomas, and Mark Ferrell broke the two mile relay record. And it stood for like 25 years after they broke it. My recollection is the record they set was 7:35.6, which is a phenomenal time. We had an arch-rivalry with Boys High, Brooklyn Boys High [now Boys and Girls High School]. We had arch-rivalry with White Plains High [School]. So in my, while I was there, we had these arch-rivalries with two of the prominent programs of all time. In June of 1966, Andrew Jackson, Boys High, White Plains, Archbishop Molloy [High School], I think Wingate [George W. Wingate High School], maybe Jamaica [High School], and a couple of other teams went for all the relay records, all the high school relay records and broke, my recollection is that, they broke four of the five records that they went for. That was never done before, and it's never been done since.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1475.0,1640.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Larry James –rest his soul– running for White Plains [High School] was the fastest quarter mile of that day [Ed. note: 47.4] when White Plains broke the mile relay record. And Boys High, you know, like I said, they were tied with Andrew Jackson for the two mile relay. So that record is in both the name of both teams, Andrew Jackson and Boys High. Vince Matthews, Larry James, John Carlos, Ron Freeman, Bob Beaman, who –all guys who I would see at track meets at the Armory and at Randall's Island– who all wound up being on the victory stand in Mexico City and the Olympics [1968 Summer Olympics]. So when you see something like that, you know, it's something that's very unique and very inspiring. And you feel very proud, you know, that guys who were the best in the world at something. So yeah, that's, those are some of, some of my memories of Andrew Jackson High School.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1640.0,1701.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. I could imagine. I mean –1968 is like, one between– obviously the sixties was a very intense period with everything that happened, I don't know, between '60 to '71. And then the Olympics in 19– in Mexico city in 1968, like at least for me was iconic. I still had like that huge poster of John Carlos and the other two, like standing [Ed. note: Tommie Smith and the late Peter Norman]. And then there was a lot of things that were happening in Mexico City itself. I guess to move forward a little bit, is that like, you know, you graduate from Andrew Jackson in 1965 at 16–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1701.0,1749.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: '66. [Ed. note: received an academic diploma, took a bunch of New York State Regents exams and did well, and took a bunch of honors classes].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1749.0,1749.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: –Okay. Yes. And then could you one, describe the importance of education in your family, and then, sorry to make this a double-barreled question, but like, then tell me what you remembered about CUNY's reputation at the time when you were getting ready to apply to colleges.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1749.0,1771.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Well, college education was, was just a given for me. I, you know, I don't even remember having discussions about it. It was just an assumption as I was going through school. As I mentioned, my mom –rest her soul– had gone to Tuskegee [Institute] and she, you know, helped me with my homework while my dad was risking his life fighting fires. And she, I imagine that she saw me coming home from the library with these stacks of books under my arm – when I was a kid in elementary school we were given library cards. And to me it was like the coolest thing in the world because they took us to the library, they gave us a tour –Coney Island had a really nice library– and they said, \"Here's your card. You can just take out books, read 'em, then bring 'em back.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1771.0,1829.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And I thought, I said, \"Wow,\" you know, \"free? You can read all the books you want for free. You don't have to buy them?\" So that was, that to me was, was worth its weight in gold. I guess, you know, I mean, some people get a driver's license and think that's going to change their life. I got a library card, and I said, you know, \"This is, this is the best thing on earth.\" So I was that, that Black kid walking down Mermaid Avenue, carrying a stack of books during the summer under my arm. And I would read those books. I think it was really important was when I got into SP [gifted student program called New York City's Special Progress (SP)], and there was just this, it was just an assumed that everybody in this class is going to college. We didn't even talk about it. It was just a given.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1829.0,1874.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And, you know, there was a very subtle thing that I remember that was, was commercial. It wasn't really something that was intentional for the parents. There was a company that used to sell book covers. And in those days, probably still today, when you got a textbook, you had to put a cover on it. Some people just would just get a paper, brown paper bag and tape it up and cover the book. But we were fortunate that they had these book covers with Ivy League names on them. Maybe you, you would have the name, the school, and the school crest on the cover, you know. And we would use those to cover our books. So I guess there was the subliminal message that, you know, this, this, these are your some of your choices when you get out of high school, these are some of the things you can do. [Ed. note: Murray covered his textbook with a Columbia University cover and eventually ended up attending the institution.] So, yeah. Education was very important in my family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1874.0,1935.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And, CUNY's reputation was sterling. I mean I think that the facts will bear that most people who went to a four year CUNY school at that time, probably could have gotten into an Ivy League school. And many didn't because of money. We basically at Queens College got an Ivy League education for $35 a semester. Money was an issue. And that's how that worked. I'm not even sure if I'd gone to Columbia as an undergrad I would've had as good a time as I did at Queens College, because it [Columbia] was all male at the time. There were probably fewer Black men there than there were at Queens College after the SEEK [Search for Education, Elevation, and Knowledge] Program came. And, I think I probably did better in the collegiate track conference than I would've done in the Ivy League conference. I'll never know. I don't know for sure, but–.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=1935.0,2002.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: –Queens College and certainly– Queens College at that time was the [laughs] queen of CUNY. I mean, Queens College had the reputation of being the best school of CUNY. I'm sure my buddies from CCNY [the City College of New York] will say, \"Yeah, well, we've got, you know, Nobel prizes, you know, we've got all kinds of other awards.\" That may be true, but at that particular time, my recollection was that Queens College not only was a great academic school, but that beautiful facility, you know, over on the hill overlooking the Manhattan skyline. I mean, that's, that was just awesome. You know, you didn't have to go through, you know, the grit of New York City to get to CCNY. I didn't. My friends did. My fraternity brothers did. But I, you know, we had this, this essentially luxurious campus with, [we] had a nice all-weather track, had an indoor track at Fitzgerald Gym. I mean, it fit like a glove for me. So, academically and athletically, it was a perfect fit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2002.0,2075.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And then what do you remember about attending Queens College? Like very early on [pauses]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2075.0,2087.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: When I first got there? I guess the one thing was the bus rides, you know. Because as a youngster, I wanted to live on campus and there were no dorms, so I had to take two buses to get to school. And that was a, that was a downer. But, you know, $35 a semester, plus, you know, the buses were 15 cents each way you could get a transfer. So I think we had a– I'm not even sure, you know, I'm not sure we actually had a transfer. We may have, I don't recall. Cause it seems like they would, they may have been different lines. I don't recall, but without regard to the cost of the bus, the campus was impressive. And I, you know, I ultimately came to enjoy it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2087.0,2152.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I'm on mute. One of the first things you, you come to describe in the piece that you wrote was your participation in this group called the Black Concern. Would you like to talk about that? Or could you talk about that more, and describe how you learned about it, and what that experience was like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2152.0,2175.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah, I mean, at the time, you know, one of the things that was important for me when I wrote that piece was to put everything in context, because the context was important. It was not as though this were a, we were a group of people who spontaneously decided we wanted to, you know, pitch a boogie. That's not what was happening. We were part of an evolution that was larger than ourselves. And we were young, bright students who had an opportunity to speak. The problem that we, the main problem we faced was that there was just a small number of us, just a few Black students on that campus. At that time, it was only about a dozen of us. And, you know, the, I don't know, the measurements of the typical cafeteria table. Let's say it's maybe, I don't know, eight feet long and maybe, you know, four feet wide or something like that. On a good day, we could fill one of those tables with Black students at lunchtime and, you know, hang out and have lunch together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2175.0,2239.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: So one of our concerns, one of the main concerns was getting more Black students on that campus, cause it was pretty isolating. I had a sense, I had a very, I had minimal social life on campus after our– let's, let's put it this way– I was studying very hard and I was on the track team. So I didn't have a lot of time for social life in the first place. There were not– Queens College was not a socially active school, but there were other, there were white fraternities, white sororities, and these houses. I guess the houses were organizations of students who didn't want to pledge a fraternity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2239.0,2292.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: So they had something called, you know, \"Green House\" or whatever it was called. I didn't really have any affinity with those organizations. So if they had social life, we weren't part of that. There was a carnival that would be held I think in the Spring opposite the track in that area that was adjacent to the tennis courts. And, you know, they had rides and games and such. I, we never, I, none of the Black students I knew attended that. My social life was with a couple of buddies I had in St. Albans. And, there was a club called The Dome, which was very popular down in Greenwich Village. It was right below the Electric Circus– which was, which became famous– and a right around the corner from Fillmore East.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2292.0,2353.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: So Fillmore East was, was a huge facility. What's this guy's name, Jimi Hendrix. He was, is one of these guys who was playing in the Fillmore East. And there was this other guy named Sly Stone who was playing at Electric Circus. And we were downstairs below that at The Dome. We called it The Dome. And we had a lot of fun there, but there was not much social life. It was Queens. People went to Queens College, went there to study primarily. You were not going there to party. You were there to study and to get your degree. So, you know, I cannot fault the school for that. They provided a wonderful opportunity and it was, it was your, it was, you know, your opportunity to either accept or waste. So that's how I looked at it. [In 1967, Murray pledged for, and was initiated into, the Omicron Chapter of Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity, Inc. The Kappa Kastle is still located in Harlem at the top of Sugar Hill, one block up the hill from Hamilton Grange].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2353.0,2414.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And then I guess quickly, I don't know about, I mean– so you mentioned, like there were about like 12 other Black students. And where were these other, were these other students also from, you mentioned some being from St. Albans, but did you have a gathering of where else they were coming from to be at Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2414.0,2434.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah, most of those people who were part of Black Concern were from Southeast Queens. There was one really nice young lady who lived out in, I think I'm thinking, Babylon. And her family bought a, Mustang for her and she wore these white go-go boots. So we called her Mustang Sally, you know, which was, you know, commemorative of the Wilson Pickett song. So, but yeah, Black Concern came out as a result of people who were living in Queens, and we wanted more Black students on campus. We wanted Black Studies. We wanted Black faculty. And at the time, you know, I had little knowledge of any of this stuff because it was, it wasn't part of my curriculum. I was the first in my family to get to the second year of college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2434.0,2495.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And my mother– you know, rest her soul– studied more, had more of a trade education for Tuskegee [Institute] than an academic. I mean it was a mix of course, but the emphasis was on trade. So I did not have the opportunity to read the kinds of literature by Black writers that I had later in life. But the members of Black Concern came together in an effort to voice our opinions about the need for change at Queens College. And it was very important for me, because this was all new to me, but I felt something was wrong. Because I was– here I was, I was an English major and I was a writing major and I wasn't really aware of any other Black writers. I mean, I hadn't been introduced to any, I didn't know of any. So I'm writing under a handicap because I had no real influences.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2495.0,2562.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: but as I said in the piece that I wrote, fortunately, the music that was very popular at that time, with Motown and Stax Records and all of those other wonderful outlets provided some literature for us. We had characters, we had storylines, we had poetry and that, that was very useful. So, I don't, I don't feel I lost much. I lost some things. I would like to have known about Langston Hughes and, and LeRoi Jones [later known as Amiri Baraka] earlier. But fortunately, you know, we helped bring to the attention of the administration the need to have a more inclusive educational process. And, you know, truth be told, it means obviously that the administration of Queens College was not in a bubble. They were reading the papers like everybody else. They were– I'm sure that, that they had conventions where college professors were talking about what the Black students, you know, on the West coast and the Midwest and the South were doing. I mean, people understood that they, that the academic programs, or most colleges had no Black History, no African History, no Black Literature, no Black Art, nothing that the typical Black student could, you know, latch onto. And that was unfortunate, but that was the reality. So I like to feel that we were able to, to help bring about that change because it was, it was sorely needed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2562.0,2659.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I mean, on top of like, not being in a bubble, you know, at the other historic, I mean, you have Columbia University with its protests, but you also have City College with its protests, with the sit-ins, and the demand for a more, for a faculty that's more reflective of the, the Black and Brown population that were attending. I guess one question is like, how many faculty or staff of color did you experience before you folks created Black Concern?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2659.0,2703.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: There were none.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2703.0,2704.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: None. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2704.0,2705.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: None. I mean I wasn't aware of it other than, other than the fact that my dear coach, Bill Delfyette – rest his soul– my track coach. I imagine he was probably a Phys-Ed teacher. He was a fine man. Coincidentally, his brother is a friend of my father socially. And I've had some recent conversations with his, Bill Delfyette's brother. And I, and then I found out later on in just recent years, that Bill Delfyette was a fraternity brother of mine. But yeah, we didn't, we didn't have any, there were no Black faculty members that I ever encountered prior to that. [Ed. note: Murray later recalled that he took a sex education course during his junior year with a Black female professor].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2705.0,2757.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And then, I guess after the creation of Black Concern, what do you recall happening afterwards?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2757.0,2770.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: My recollection is that we– bear in mind that there were a couple things that were happening. On the one hand, we were having conversations among ourselves about what was going on in the world, what was going on in Black America. And I tried to reflect those, those conversations in the subject matter. In my piece, you know, we were talking about, you know, Malcolm X and Marcus Garvey and, you know, Black history. And at the same time we held meetings. And my recollection was that there was a presentation to the administration of what we wanted. My recollection was that we were in the process of doing that. I don't, I don't recall the issue being resolved prior to my sophomore year. And I recently spoke with a woman who– hello? [technical issues]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2770.0,2841.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I'm here. I'm the– I'm gonna charge my laptop.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2841.0,2845.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay. I recently spoke with someone who reminded me that there had been a sit-in by Black Concern at the office of the Dean. I don't recall that. And I don't recall what the outcome was. It was probably, I would say in the spring of, of '67, but she would, she would know more than I. So like I said, we were in, we were probably in, in transition. And then summer came. And then the following fall was when we had this relatively large influx of additional Black matriculated students, but there was a significantly larger number of SEEK [Search for Education, Elevation, and Knowledge program] students. And that created a larger audience and a larger group of people, some of who had many, most of whom had common interests, but some of whom had interests separate from others. In other words, one of the main interests of the SEEK students later on was to become matriculated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2845.0,2922.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Which was something, you know, we, Black Concern we were already matriculated. So it wasn't something we were, you know, pushing for. They did that. And they did it successfully. But yeah, we, it was, it was a process that was still in flux. And I'm– my recollection is that it was, you know, it was a, like I said, a presentation was made to the faculty rather the administration. And I don't recall any definitive response from the administration at that point. I just, like I said, I recently was brought back to the awareness that there had been a sit-in, but I don't recall that there was a definitive response to it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2922.0,2974.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: With the new influx of, Black students and also those are a part of the SEEK program, how do you recollect some of the, the dynamics that you experienced? Um, you mentioned that some people had the same, some of the same agendas and some of them were different, but with new folks on campus, what do you remember that being like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=2974.0,3002.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Well, socially it was fantastic. I mean, you know, we were kids, you know, teenagers, so young adults and, you know, young adults like to get together and then hang out. What boy meets girl, girl meets boy, you mean that's gonna happen no matter, no matter where you are. So well, well, what was important for us was that we just got, you know, some more Black faces on this campus because it made us feel so much better about the experience. I became a SEEK tutor, which meant that I was tutoring members of SEEK, and I was tutoring them in English and in Mathematics. And I became close with, you know, some SEEK members, had some very wonderful relationships with, with people who were in SEEK. I was getting paid to tutor. It was a nice little part-time job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3002.0,3059.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: But one of the things that became clear to me, both just in chatting and, you know, around the lunch table, and also as a tutor was that there were some people in SEEK who were eager, who had not had the opportunity previously to consider college and wanted to, you know, to use their high school credentials, you know, to, to advance to a college degree. And there are other people at SEEK who frankly didn't belong in college. I mean, I had a couple of people, and I told, you know, my, the supervisor said, \"Look,\" I said, \"you're asking me to tutor, to tutor this, this young lady in Mathematics. She's not, she's not even– she's, she's like in like a middle high school, mid high school level. She's, she's not she's, this lady is not at the, this girl's not at the college level yet. I can't tutor– I can't bring her to college level within the next few months, because she's too far behind.\" And it wasn't just in terms of Mathematics, it's also in terms of English composition. I mean, I'm looking at this stuff and I'm thinking, \"You're asking me to do something that– I'll take, I'm getting paid for this. I understand that, but you're not going to get any positive results because some of these young people didn't get the full academic experience that they were supposed to get in high school.\" I mean, and a couple of people I gotta tell you weren't even at the junior high school level. It was like amazing. I, they were, you know, I wouldn't say functionally illiterate, but just, just way, way behind where they should have been. And certainly not at the college level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3059.0,3175.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: So, but I, you know– it wasn't my position to question why they were there. But they were there and I gave my reports to the faculty and, you know, I did what I could. Some other Black students also were, some other Black matriculated students were also, tutors for SEEK. And we had, you know, similar experiences. Some, some of our– some of the people we tutored were really, really interested in getting their degree and they did get their degree, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3175.0,3216.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And some others, you know, I got the impression, I didn't think about it until years later, but I remember being in the cafeteria, we move from the small cafeteria to the big cafeteria. And we occupied those two tables that I guess would be on the, I guess that's the northwest corner, [corrects himself] no, the northeast corner of the cafeteria. And some kids would be playing cards for hours. I didn't play cards. I played chess occasionally, but certainly not on campus. And I'm like thinking, like, \"Where do you get the time to be playing bid whist [card game] on campus?\" I was taking a full load and, you know, the only, if I had any free to time at all between studying and the track team, I would, I would do it [Ed. note: use it efficiently]. I'd have like maybe a couple hours to watch \"The Man from U.N.C.L.E\" at home on television, or \"Star Trek\" or something like that. But these kids were, some of these kids were just playing bid whist and I realized later on, they never really intended to graduate. They never really intended to get a degree. They were just there for whatever reason, to see what college was like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3216.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: And I, truth be told, I think some of them felt overwhelmed. I think some of them felt flustered. I mean, if I were, if someone were to put me in a, in an extreme quantum physics class, when I was at the high school level of science, I guess I would be playing bid whist too, [laughs] because this is way, way beyond my capacity. And, you know, at a certain point you realize this is, this is not a fit. This doesn't make sense. So you're kind of going through the motions. But obviously SEEK did a wonderful job in bringing a lot of people to their college degrees who otherwise wouldn't have gotten it. There are a few bad eggs who wasted the opportunity, but most, my presumption was that most people didn't waste the opportunity. They took the opportunity and did well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3300.0,3367.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. Yeah. That's really interesting to hear. And then, I guess one question I do have to ask is that there was the– do you remember anything about the SEEK rebellion where you mentioned that there was like a sit-in that occurred? So you might not remember this and that's okay. But, do you remember like the students from the Black and Puerto Rican–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3367.0,3395.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: –Student- Faculty Coalition–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3395.0,3395.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: –students coming and like turning over like the library carts and like all of that stuff at one point?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3395.0,3409.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. I mean, you know, I had, I was aware that SEEK was going to make a demonstration. I learned the night before that there was going to be a demonstration the next day. My understanding from what I was told, it was something, it was not what ultimately happened. And I think one of the important things to remember about SEEK was that some of the guys who were in SEEK had what you would call a checkered past. And those guys, I, you know, were probably the most aggressive. I saw things, I saw [pause] some of what was going on. I don't remember being in the library when it happened. I remember seeing the library after the fact and seeing some things that had been overturned, this stuff. That was my library.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3409.0,3473.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I mean, that's where I studied, you know. I mean, I would be. It was Paul Klapper Library. That's where I did my studying before I went home after track practice, and during the day. And we had, you know, there were carrels up there which were, you know, these small little study facilities and that's where–you know, would come midterms and final exams– that was where I made my bones. That's where I, that's where I really, you know, did all the, the nitty gritty study. So to me, the notion of knocking over books in the library was not my idea of what I would've done. It's not what I would've done because see, like I said, I was using that facility to study.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3473.0,3521.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I don't recall all the other things that were done. My understanding is that there were some offices that were disrupted. That there were some, some furniture that was overturned. But just to recap, I remember we used to go to have these huge meetings, which were obviously substantially, but substantially larger than the Black Concern. We being the Queens College Black and Puerto Rican Student- Faculty Coalition. So you got, I don't know, maybe 150 people in this room in this large lecture hall. And, you know, Sam Anderson and Carol Anderson were the main organizers of it, leaders of it. They did a wonderful job. They were admirable. They were admirable leaders. I remember, Bobb Hamilton– who was a fine man– and people worked hard so that we understood what was going on, why we were protesting, what was all about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3521.0,3595.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: But there were some edgy guys in there who to me, appeared to be street guys on a college campus who were not college material. Which is not– which was different from most of the other SEEK people who wanted the opportunity to get a college degree. So I think that, I think that in a lot of other cases, you have that difference where you get some people who are more radical than others. It's more difficult in college– for example, at the same time of the big demonstration on May 2nd, 1968, [correcting himself] '69, the SDS [Students for a Democratic Society] kids were occupying what we call the Academic building, the tower, and they were protesting with a sit-in and they just occupied the building. I don't know, to what extent they disrupted classes or disrupted the administration of the school, but they were there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3595.0,3665.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: They'd been there for like two weeks. If I remember correctly. I didn't really go into watch to see what they were doing, because you know, you could see stuff like that on television. Almost every college campus in America was having a demonstration about something. But the point I'm making is that they weren't disruptive. They weren't, they were knocking, they weren't– you know, to my knowledge, I didn't see them tearing apart anyone's office. And then when the administration announced that the school was closing, they left, they just walked off. All of those kids in SDS were kids who studied hard to get into Queens College. They all, and even though they were protesting, in the back of their mind is \"After this is over, I've got to go home and study because I got final exams coming up soon. And you know, it's time for me to buckle down.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3665.0,3725.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Maybe (one or two of those kids) had gotten off the reservation and decided this was gonna be his raison d'etre and, you know, he didn't care anymore. But for most of those kids, they knew, you know, that pretty soon this was going to end because those final exams were approaching. So you have, Queens College had this mix, this huge mix of different people with different interests, different motivations and different expectations, different goals, different mindsets. You know, for me, the reason I was there was to walk across that stage in Madison Square Garden in June of 1970, shake hands with the president, he gives me a piece of paper and I walk off the stage. That's what the whole thing was for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3725.0,3773.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Track team was wonderful. Fraternity was wonderful.  [Murray became Polemarch, (President), of Omicron Chapter of Kappa Alpha Psi. He remains active as a member of the New York Alumni Chapter.] Those were assets for that moment, you know. Protest was important to get me to that moment, but nothing, you know, in my mind was going to keep me from that moment. And God blessed me to have the ability to do that. I, you know, I, as an athlete, actually, I'm sure every single athlete, whoever laced up a pair of spikes or sneakers looks back when he gets to being an old man like me– I'm 71 years old– he says, you know, \"I could have done this. I could have done that. I could have run faster. I could have jumped higher. I could have scored more touchdowns. I could've scored more points.\" No one ever asked me in all the jobs I ever had what was my time for the hundred yard dash. It never came up. It doesn't come up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3773.0,3822.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: What, what is important? The first thing on my resume when I first got out of college, \"BA Queens College, English, June 1970.\" Okay. That's the foundation. Not being on the track team, not being in the fraternity, not being an activist, getting that degree. And a lot of my buddies and friends and some track teammates didn't get their degree on time or didn't get their degree at all, you know. So that was an opportunity that, that you had $35 a semester, come on, $35 a semester, plus lunch money, book money, and bus money. That's all. Okay. I've been accepted to NYU. I've been accepted to Howard University. If I had applied, I probably could have gotten into Columbia. Fortunately I got to Columbia later. But– and to be honest with you– I mean, I actually had– how should I say this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3822.0,3892.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: I wasn't entirely happy at Queens College while I was there, but I realized later in life how blessed I was to be there because it was like the perfect fit for me. If I'd gone to Michigan and tried out for the football team at 127 pounds, Bo Schembechler would've looked at me and said \"Mr. Murray, you need to put on some more weight before you can be wide receiver. We've got some guys here– Yeah, you you're, you're fast. You can catch the football, but you need to, you need to bulk up. And you, Mr. Murray, you're telling me you didn't play football in high school. Have you ever had a hit?\" And I could talk about my fraternity, talk about, you know, being hit, but it's not quite the same when the temperature is, you know, 12 degrees and it's snowing and you're in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and your fingers are frozen. You know, I mean, some guy who is 292 pounds hits you, you know, running at, you know, 20 miles an hour.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3892.0,3953.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: So the most important thing at the time for me was to get that BA. That's, I guess, that's what I'm trying to say. We talked about, you know, we talked about [Lewis] Michaux's Bookstore and the books that were at Michaux's Bookstore and how we needed to have those there. Well, the bookstore [Michaux's] was there, you know, and I actually after college, sometimes during college, I would go to the bookstore and buy the book, you know. But we understood the need to have that as part of our curriculum. And, you know, fortunately we were, we were able to do that. And, we had some, some loud, long arguments, debates. People were adamant in their positions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=3953.0,4004.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: People got really enthusiastic we'll say about their position. Adamant about their position. So you're sitting in this huge lecture hall and people starting to yell and things start to get out of control. And you're wondering what all this is for. It was because people needed to express themselves. People, you know, we had four years of oppression [corrects himself], 400 years of oppression, coming out of bondage. This is the generation of young Black people who now have a voice, who now have an opportunity to speak, who are now together. You now got the best and brightest of Black American academia in a room together expressing their views about how we move forward. That to me was one of the most important things about the Queens College Black and Puerto Rican Student - Faculty Coalition. And also before that, one of the most important things about Black Concern: to be able to sit there with other people who are like-minded, who would have a certain level of intelligence and education and ambition, who want to bring about fundamental change to this, for Black people in American society.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4004.0,4081.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing all of that. I really appreciate it. And, I guess, one thing I wanted to follow up, and I guess for clarification's sake, is that you graduated in 1970, and at that same time, there was the open admissions policy. So you didn't have any experience with that? Like–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4081.0,4107.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: No, my, I mean, I, my recollection was that open admissions came– well, let me tell you, maybe I have to ask you that question. What is you– I don't know I don't have the record in front of me– what is your understanding of when open admissions came about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4107.0,4124.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: My, so my understanding is– and the mistake I might be making is depending on semester but– my understanding is that the open admissions policy in CUNY was implemented in 1970. And, this was the same year that New York City decentralized its public school system.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4124.0,4145.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Okay. Well, assuming that would be the case I graduated in June of '70, probably started in September '70.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4145.0,4154.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. Yeah. So that means you, there wasn't that experience of the influx or of a further influx, just because–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4154.0,4162.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: –and bear in mind the thing about open admissions is that it was a multifaceted program. You didn't have, my understanding of it is that, you didn't have to take the SAT [Standardized Admissions Test]. Your GPA was not as important as it would've been before. And the core requirements that we had in terms of, you know, Math or Science, History, Language, Art, all those core curriculum courses were no longer required. You could just go, just get, you know, the credits and you're out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4162.0,4199.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. Give me one second. [recording skips] zoom [unclear]. So, Mr. Murray, like in, in closing, would you like to share any like final thoughts that you have about your experience at Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4199.0,4217.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hwesu Samuel Murray: Yes. I would say that it was ultimately a very rewarding experience, academically, socially, athletically, fraternally. I happened to meet one of the more recent presidents of Queens College at an alumni event about four or five years ago. And I told him, I said, you know, \"After I left Queens College, I went to the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, which was ranked at the top at the time. And, then years, a few years after that, I went to University of Michigan Law School and I got my JD there, and it was ranked at the top at the time. And I've got to tell you, I never felt uncomfortable a single day at either one of those institutions, primarily because of, one of the main reasons is because of the education I got, the foundation I got at Queens College.\" I was at Queens College. We had some smart people, some sharp people, some brilliant people in my classes. And they were the same kinds of people I saw, I encountered at Columbia, same kind of people I encountered in Michigan. I was among my peers. I felt comfortable. And that was very important for me and for my career. And it remains important to me to this day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4217.0,4310.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582/transcript/39271/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: All right, cool. Thank you so much. So I'm going to stop the recording here and,–","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/76885/file/163582#t=4310.0,4317.888"}]}]}]}