{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/9g5gb1zj9m/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Nathaniel Smith Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eNathaniel Smith is Director of NYC Men Teach at Queens College, CUNY. In part one of the oral history, Smith talks about his early childhood, family, and education throughout his life. He also briefly talks about Hurricane Katrina, and COVID-19 and how they affected his family. He goes on to discuss the start and organization of the BLFSA (the Black \u0026amp; Latinx Faculty \u0026amp; Staff Association) at Queens College.\u003cbr\u003e \u003cbr\u003ePart two of the oral history focuses on the formation of the BLFSA and its goals. Mr. Smith talks about his ideas for the association along with that of NYC Men Teach. Furthermore, he speaks about the lockdown at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic and how it affected his work, life, and the lives of others. \u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College Faculty and Staff Oral History Project"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1980s, 1990s, 2019-2020 (temporal)","Twin Park, Bronx,  Manhattan and Queens College, Flushing, Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2020-11-10 (created)","2020-12-08 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Nathaniel Smith (Interviewee)","Obden Mondesir (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eNathaniel Smith is Director of NYC Men Teach at Queens College, CUNY. In part one of the oral history, Smith talks about his early childhood, family, and education throughout his life. He also briefly talks about Hurricane Katrina, and COVID-19 and how they affected his family. He goes on to discuss the start and organization of the BLFSA (the Black \u0026amp; Latinx Faculty \u0026amp; Staff Association) at Queens College.\u003cbr /\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003cbr /\u003ePart two of the oral history focuses on the formation of the BLFSA and its goals. Mr. Smith talks about his ideas for the association along with that of NYC Men Teach. Furthermore, he speaks about the lockdown at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic and how it affected his work, life, and the lives of others.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/165/308/small/Screenshot_%28145%29.png?1660938296","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - Smith-Nathaniel-11102020_radio_edit.mp3"]},"duration":4789.272,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/165/308/small/Screenshot_%28145%29.png?1660938296","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/165/308/original/Smith-Nathaniel-11102020_radio_edit.mp3?1660938115","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":4789.272,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: So, today's date is November 10th, 2020. My name is Obden Mondesir. I am collecting this oral history forQueens Memory as well as the Queens College Special Collections and Archives. These interviews are being collected around the pandemic that has hit globally, as late or early as March, and as well as the protests against police brutality since the death of George Floyd. I am with Nathaniel Smith. Nathaniel, could you spell your first and last name?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=3.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Nathaniel Smith. N as in Nancy—A—teach—A [laughs] N—A—T—H—A—N—I—E—L—S—M—I—T—H.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=46.0,61.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Alright, and what year were you born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=61.0,64.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: 1978","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=64.0,68.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: We spoke earlier before we started the recording, and, could you just tell me about the first neighborhood that you grew up in the Bronx? We initially started talking about the neighborhood of Twin Parks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=68.0,87.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yes. So I grew up in the Twin Parks section of the Bronx, and at one point it was dubbed the most dangerous square mile in America by Time magazine in the article that they wrote a couple of years ago. From what I remember growing up, it was a neighborhood that was heavily impoverished. I don't really remember—kind of like—this fantasy world that a lot of other folks around America remember about the Bronx, \"The Bronx is burning. The Bronx is burning.\" I'm sure that that might've been true of certain neighborhoods, but it wasn't of mine. Just a lot of, a lot of poverty, a lot of families that I remember that were struggling to get by, a lot of children. My own household, my parents had six boys, so of course, we added to all the neigborhood children in the area. It was a lot of fun growing up in my neighborhood in the Bronx. Everybody knew each other, all the families knew each other. We can just run back and forth to each other's household, knock on each other's doors, spend the night, blah, blah, blah. So there was a real sense of community despite the real presence of poverty in my neighborhood. But that's the Bronx that I remember. And sure it was tough, my parents, are raising six boys. It was very, very tough in the Bronx, because even as I sit here today doing this interview, in my mind I'm remembering literally all the guys that I grew up with, from my block, from my building. And as the cliche goes, either they're dead, serving time behind bars, or strung out on drugs. And a good number of the guys that I grew up with fit one of those three categories, a good number of them sold drugs. Thankfully that was not my testimony, that was not my portion growing up. My parents, did their best to shield my brothers and I from that activity. And although we still played and really, ya know connected with a lot of the guys that we grew up with, my friends as such, but, that kind of activity we, we did not get into. I did see a lot growing up in my neighborhood. In a lot of ways I could understand how time would dub it the most dangerous square mile in America. I mean, it is-- I think part of that narrative comes from the police precinct that governs the area. Lots of police shootings, lots of kind of like \"guerrilla warfare\" between the guys on the block and the cops. Many nights we had to duck and hide within our apartment from just bullets flying, and the building being raided by cops. I grew up --you know, as a seventies child, late seventies child, grew up in the eighties-- at the height of the crack epidemic. And my neighborhood was very fond of crack, very very fond of cocaine. I remember in the playground just outside of our building where I grew up, there was a open kind of courtyard, or neighborhood playground that was open access to the entire community, families, kids, children could just come right in just rip and run for hours. And it was never closed. It was like open all the time, but part of it was open to others in the community as well, who chose to engage in certain activities. So I would see literally crack bottles littered all over the playground. And of course you don't really know what it is until an adult kind of explains to you \"well that's not candy, that's not a toy, don't touch that.\" So we would have to at a certain point, we would have to stay away from certain areas in the playground, where we would see a lot of these crack bottles. A lot of these are used needles just lying around. And of course, I mean, if I were to ask my parents, I'm pretty sure that they were hurt to see that. If I were to ask a lot of the grownups in the area that-- they were just really ashamed that our playground was like that. But that was-- that was part of the reality of growing up in my neighborhood.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=87.0,458.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: You mentioned that there were parts of the playground that you couldn't go towards anymore. Can you recall: One the arrangement of the playground and then, what do you remember like of the space that like, \"hey we couldn't go to that part of the playground.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=458.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. So my part of the twin parks project was constructed in a way where it was almost like a bi-level construction. So part of the building was built on Marion and 184th, and like the backside hung over to 184th and Webster Avenue. So it took up like this huge mass and kind of like in the middle was this huge playground that hadmultiple access points. So one of the access points was literally like, right from my building. I can just literally walk right downstairs, these long narrow staircase that once you get to the bottom it just kinda, fans out and on one side was like the monkey bars and the slides; to the right were these benches that were kind of like spaced out, but grouped together where people can kind of sit, played dominoes or chess, checkers, or what have you. In the back towards the community center, the community room was kind of like some more play areas. And then it kind of-- there was another set of stairs that drew down leading to the kindergarten and the elementary school on the other side of the building. And it was just a huge area. There were-- it was draped by these big columns that will obviously holding up the building. But we would just rip and run all day; playing tag, hide-and-go-seek, hot piece of butter. Just all the kids games that we played in the eighties. I don't know if these kids-- I mean well my kids, they don't know anything about that, [laughs] except for games online. But, growing up, we made the most of like every space. So the areas that we stayed away from were the ones that were kind of like hidden, like towards the back, because you can see these groupings of crack bottles on the floor. And it was easy to stay away from those areas. But those are the areas that were really good areas to play hide-and-go-seek, but to have those areas taken away from us was a bit of a downer, but you just learn to deal with it. And again, we utilize every square inch of the space.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=480.0,666.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay.And I guess, could you tell me like what else was it like, , living in that neighborhood, you know, moving forward in time. So we're talking about your childhood. What was school like going-- what was it like going to school in that area?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=666.0,689.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Going to school in my area was easy in the sense that my-- the kindergarten was literally attached to the building. So my parents didn't have to go far, we didn't have to go far. The elementary school was literally right around the block, literally right around the block. It was interesting because when I was in elementary school, I actually helped campaign. I don't know if that's the right word, but I helped, along with some other students-- and of course, the entire school community rallied around this new construction of the school yard. And it was a-- kind of like this huge community undertaking, where t`he news got involved, we saw media come during the groundbreaking. And so over the course of the next few days and weeks everybody just pitched in; breaking ground, laying cement, moving the construction cones, passing out water. And as a kid, that was fun. It made you, I mean-- it made me feel good that I was part of something that was giving back to not only the school, but also the community. Because even though the elementary school --again, it was right around the corner from my building-- but the back of the school where the school yard was and where the mini school was, literally fed into part of the playground that was part of my building. So, as you can see, you know, this whole twin parks project was really kind of like this design, that again, welcomed the entire community into a space where there were no roadblocks, there were no-- it was open access. And so going to school in the area was fun. I was close to home, all my friends, they were close to their home. We can just shoot to each other's houses. I was part of the gifted and talented program growing up as an elementary school student. At the time I didn't know, all I knew was that all of my classes started with a 'G' and I just, I just never understood that. Oh, you know, you're a part of G-1 as a first grader, you're a part of G-2 as a second grader, G-3 so on and so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=689.0,875.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: What was the name of the elementary school that you attended?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=875.0,878.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Public school 85, P.S. 85 in the Bronx.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=878.0,883.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=883.0,884.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: And, so again, I didn't quite get the concept as a kid, but I knew that something was-- I knew something was different about me, which is why I was in the gifted and talented but-- And even thinking back now, I still connect with a good number of my elementary friends to this day. And everybody's just off doing great things, and that's exciting. I remember my-- There was a portion of my elementary school years where the principal was a black woman, and her name was Ms. Washington. She wore big hair like Claire Huxtable, and she was very engaged, [a] very hands-on kind of principle. She didn't stay in her office, she was always out greeting the students, greeting families. I remember the janitor, Mr. Lee, tall, dark-skined black man, who was I'd say probably the friendliest person in the entire building. Who was always on top of me, always on top of me and my friends to stay out of trouble, making sure we go to class. And he kind of like gave us that education that was outside of the classroom. [A] very, very respectful gentleman. My art teacher in kindergarten was Mr. Kane, K-A-N-E, who was also a dark-skined, salt-and-pepper hair, black gentleman. Very very smart, very very, invested in me. I think I owe him and my eldest brother a lot of credit for my artistic ability. And of course there were others that were inspirational. Mr. De Jesus was a bald headed, Puerto Rican assistant principal. He kinda looked like Teddy Savalas growing up; and we used to always tease him But Mr. De Jesus was a really cool guy duing my elementary school days. And yeah, that's-- I'd say that that's pretty much all I can say about elementary school. Do you want me to kind of talk about junior high or...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=884.0,1076.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. And very quickly, could you explain your reference to Teddy Savalas, I have no idea who that is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1076.0,1084.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: So Teddy Savalas, , was an actor. He's an old school actor like in the seventies and eighties. And it's escaping me which kind of like film or TV series that he was in, but he's basically-- the character that he played: he was bald headed and kind of like a no-nonsense guy. But, Mr. De Jesus looked at that time, to us, he looked like Teddy Savalas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1084.0,1117.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. cool. And then, yeah, if you could move forward and talk about what junior high school and high school was like, that'd be great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1117.0,1132.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. Finished elementary school, moved on to junior high school. The junior high school that I attended was in Riverdale. The Riverdale section of the Bronx, which is the largest Jewish population or Jewish neighborhood in the Bronx. So, I went to junior high school, 141 and that was kind of like my first introduction to being around a lot of white people in junior high school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1132.0,1176.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And how, did this contrast to your neighborhood? Could you describe the demographics that your neighborhood constituted of?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1176.0,1188.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: So my neighborhood was primarily made up of blacks and Browns, Latinos. There was a large influx of West Africans that came into my neighborhood during the eighties, primarily from Ghana and Nigeria. And the-- my wife is Jamaican. I kinda joke with my wife that growing up the West Indians in my neighborhood were they were the drug dealers. And so it's kind of like an inside joke when my wife and I; I tell her that the only Jamacians I [Electronic Chime] knew growing up were the ones that sold drugs and had the flashy jewelry and they always drove-- I don't know what it is about those old school Nissan Maximas, but that was like the car of choice for drug dealers back then. And they would just outfit it and just make it real nice. But yeah, my neighborhood was primarily blacks and Browns. The Riverdale experience was primarily white [Electronic Chime]. And of course I went to school with a good number of Jews. I did not-- at that time I couldn't place racism, or really articulate it, as I can now. And I'm trying to remember any harsh experiences, but I can't recall at this time. But overall my experience there was, it was good. I had a Jewish teacher --I'm trying to remember his name-- Because it was in Riverdale-- Now I took Spanish in elementary school, in junior high schoolI took Hebrew as a second language. And of course my first name Nathaniel has Hebrew origin. And this Jewish teacher really, , he really took a liking to me because of my name. And he really wanted to like help me learn the language, and, I was, I was trying to get it; it's not an easy language --it wasn't for me anyway-- an easy language to learn. It was fun, but it was difficult and tough. But, he really tried to go out of his way to help me. I joined the, volleyball team as I did in elementary school, so in junior high school, I was part of the volleyball team. Of course I was really good in English. I do remember there was a snow storm, it was a huge blizzard back then where I-- you know, of course everything was shut down and I had to walk all the way from the Riverdale section of the Bronx to my home. And, but, you know, as a kid it was fun. I walked with all of my friends, as we walked, some of our friends, you know, got dropped off in Kingsbridge, others in Fordham or what have you. So that was fun. I will never forget that experience. I got home and I was frozen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1188.0,1441.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Do you remember what year that was?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1441.0,1443.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: I went to junior high school, like 1990 to 1992.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1443.0,1452.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. , the, the two year junior high school thing in New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1452.0,1460.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: [Laughs] Yeah right. So there's junior high school, middle school, intermediate school. I think one of these days that the Board of Ed is going to figure out how to do things that makes sense to people. But in any case that was, that was junior high school. I mean, overall my experience was very positive. That was the first time that I ever learned the word procrastination was in junior high school, and I've never forgotten it. It's just certain things that you've learned that it just carries over. And I was so excited that I learned this big word, and of course, whenever I got into an argent with my friends, I would throw it around. And you do things as young people and it makes you feel like on top of the world, but looking back, [laughs] Oh, those were the days. That was my introduction to bacon egg and cheese in junior high school. I would waste my parents money on a $2 bacon egg and cheese and and an apple juice. Transitioning from there to high school, I first enrolled at the High School of Art and Design in Midtown 57th adn 2nd, because of my artistic ability. And really enjoyed it, but I changed my mind and I said, \"I don't want to be an artist anymore. I wanted to be a pediatrician actually.\" And I transferred to Manhattan Center for Science and Math in East Harlem Spanish, Harlem. Yeah. That's where my twin brother went. Of course my year and a half at High School of Art and Design was powerful. I had a teacher, Mr. Graves, who was ambidextrous, he can draw with his right and his left [hand]. Older, brown skin, black man who reminded me very much of Don King. The way he wore his hair, the glasses, how he dressed everything. But the man was a creative genius. So that was my time at High School of Art and Design, taking the train, navigating the city, learning all those things by myself, , was an adventure. And then when I made the transfer to Spanish Harlem and Manhattan Center for Science and Math, , which was also an equally big school, right off of FDR drive and 116. It was an actual campus. I mean, the official name is, , Manhattan Center for Science and Math at the Benjamin Franklin campus. That's the official name. It's actually where they shot \"Carlito's Way\" the movie; which by the way I was there, not in the movie, but I was there, I went to school during that time. I graduated high school in '96. And of course \"Carlito's Way\" was made in the nineties. So again, a love of English, the English, language, English literature. I joined a dance group, or had dance class instead of PE, which was a new experience for me. And that transitioned into me being part of, kind of like an amateur dance theater group, where we traveled around and we danced modern, jazz, hip hop,we did pretty much everything except for ballet. I just could not get my feet to do the ballet thing, but everything else I can do. When I was at Art and Design, I did gymnastics; when I went to Manhattan Center, they did not have boys gymnastics. So I would practice with the girls, they had a girls team, so I would get in some practice with the girls. I joined soccer and I played forward. So I was beginning to open myself up to a lot more activity and experiences, , making a lot more friends, a good number Who I still keep in contact with this day-- to this day. Math and science: kryptonite. That's really [laughs] the best way I can describe my dealings with math and science. It was difficult for me, I don't come from a family that is very strong in those backgrounds, so it was, it was hard for me to find help at home growing up, in completing those subjects.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1460.0,1825.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. And I think this is a good time, , to kind of loop back and like, one question I would like to ask is: could you tell me more about your parents? Before we started, you mentioned that your mother was from North Carolina and that your father was from New Orleans. So I guess my question is like \"what brought them both to New York?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1825.0,1853.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah, so my mom, she's a small town girl from Maysville, North Carolina. Not too far from Newburn. So she came-- she migrated north after high school. She was actually being recruited by I believe the air force and by some aerial colleges. But, she came from a very traditional southern home where her grandmother, she-- her mother was alive at the time, but she was raised by her grandmother. And her grandmother did not believe that a woman ought to be college educated, [electronic chime] but that they 'ought to be at home and make their place at home. But, my mom had a lot of potential and she figured that the only way for her to spread her wings and really realize her potential was to move out. Not just out of her grandmother's house, or her home, but completely just away from her family. So she migrated north, came to New York City, and found that--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1853.0,1959.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: #NAME?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1959.0,1960.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Came to New York City in the... let's say she was born in 1946-47. So she came to New York City in the early sixties, I want to say. [clears throat] And started working for the New York Times. Yeah, she found a job at the New York Times. My dad came from New Orleans, Louisiana. So he was a city boy, he was used to Mardi Gras, used to that southern city life. He found his way to New York also after high school. But after high school, he first enlisted for Vietnam. Did his two years, or what have you. And then landed in New York; where he eventually met my mom through a friend and also started working at the New York Times. So they both were working at the New York Times, in Times Square. My mom as a-- her job title was \"tape librarian\". So she would catalog a lot of the files from the company. Much like working in the computer room, it was very cold, so she would have to wear a jacket, the files and everything, it needed to stay cool so that way it wouldn't overheat or destroy any of the information. My dad was a-- started off working as like a janitor, then moved up to the security guard and then finished off as a mailer. His job title was a mailer. And what that was, was basically working in the factory. He got transferred to the factory on College Point, Queens. Where he would basically just watch the newspapers just come off the roll and then, just distribute them. And, they're both retired now from the New York Times, but yeah, that's, that's how they made their way to New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=1960.0,2135.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Before that interjection you were talking about your experience in high school and how you had been involved with a lot of groups and also that math wasn't your best subject. So I guess towards the end of high school, which if-- you said you graduated in '96. Could you talk about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2135.0,2165.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah, I graduated high school in '96. That was during the time-- you know, hip hop was just real boomin' of course. A great year for hip hop was 1988. But also during the nineties there was a lot of the East Coast, West Coast kind of rap battles going on. So, people were really either hardcore West Coast or hardcore East Coast rap. And of course, I was hardcore East Coast rap growing up. And going to college really wasn't-- it wasn't an option for me growing up. My parents made it mandatory. My mom had the opportunity to go; her grandmother she felt kind of stopped her. So she's like, \"I'm not going to do that to my children.\" My dad felt like his options were very limited at that point. It was like either be drafted for Vietnam, and enlist or go to jail. So college really wasn't like in his view. So they made college a priority for me and all my brothers. So I graduated in '96 high school andwent away to college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2165.0,2251.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: So could you clarify that with your father, your father he understood the importance of college, or he wanted you to enlist?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2251.0,2261.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: So he understood the importance of college, but college wasn't on the table for him at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2261.0,2272.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: For him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2272.0,2272.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: For him, yeah, it was either go to war or `go to jail, and those are the only two options for, for him. And, which I'm sure was very tough because he grew up from a large household as well. His parents had six children. He was one of two sons, had four sisters. And actually my paternal grandparents, my dad's parents, both of them, died because of COVID-19, at the start of COVID-19. And they were well into their nineties. They literally, if they were alive today, if they were alive right now, they would have celebrated 76 years of marriage this past Sunday.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2272.0,2333.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Wow. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2333.0,2335.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. So they were-- and to show you how close they were: my paternal grandfather died [electronic chime] first and about a week later, his wife, my paternal grandmother had passed. So that goes to show that how close they were in life and now in death.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2335.0,2376.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. And do you, I mean, we-- I would love to continue talking about college and do you want to talk-- what was that experience of like going through that early on in the pandemic?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2376.0,2395.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: So of course I'm here up North, they're down South, so I wasn't able to be with them. And of course they limited the number of people that can actually go to the funeral, et cetera, et cetera. It-- I mean, was it devastating news? Of course. But at the same time, they both will pushing 100. They lived their life, they lived their life man, and just experienced so much together that, , I can't be mad about them, you know, passing. They loved each other till the end. And, I'm grateful to God that I got to meet them, I got to know them, I got to see them, I got to hear their voice, I got to learn about them. They were like-- the way that I can describe how close they were, they were almost like brother and sister; just always laughing, always cracking jokes on each other, you know, just ripping on each other. But they loved each other. And, just tons of public displays of affection, even in their old age. They survived hurricane Katrina. All of my father's side of the family survived hurricane Katrina. Their house was damaged. You can see the waterline that Katrina had left. All of my father's family was temporarily displaced when hurricane Katrina had hit. Some went to Texas, some went to Iowa where his brother is. But, over time, everybody kind of made their way back and just begin to rebuild. My dad and, and his brother, my uncle are still the only two family members that don't live in New Orleans. Yeah. They've just gone their way out of Louisiana and just kinda, made their families and life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2395.0,2541.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. And going back to '96, I guess. You were describing one that like hip hop was in the heyday of the East coast, West coast beef with, you know, B.I.G. and Tupac. Which you didn't mention, but I remember growing up in that era as well. And, tell me what your college experience was like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2541.0,2566.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. I had a good time at college. Because my parents didn't go, that makes me a first generation college student. And I knew the mandate that was placed on my shoulders by my parents, \"don't mess up, the family's watching\" kind of deal. And so that became-- that, and of course my church family. I grew up in a very religious household. My family-- my parents were religious, they made sure that we went to church like on a weekly basis, if not on a daily basis. So of course, when I went to college, I took my family and God with me to college and just made the most of my experience. I did everything that I wanted to do, with the exception of playing sports, I didn't play any sports. I did dance, but I did not play any sports. [If] I had to go back I would continue playing soccer. But I guess, looking back, I guess I didn't do it because I felt intimidated. I played soccer, but it really wasn't all that good at it. I just enjoyed playing it, but I felt like I wasn't as competitive as the other guys, so... And I could have been a walk on, but I didn't do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2566.0,2675.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And, I think before the interview started you named the school that you attended.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2675.0,2682.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Hobart. Hobart college in Geneva, New York. It's actually part of a coordinate system. So there is Hobart and William Smith college. There is two colleges that share the same kind of grounds, the same space, but they have individual charters. So, all the men graduated from Hobart college, all the women graduated from William Smith college. Think of it almost kind of like a Morehouse and Spelman kind of deal. But the, there's like a whole history behind that, but-- actually Elizabeth Blackwell graduated from what was Geneva college [electronic chime] before it was called Hobart college. You know of course, she was the first woman in America to graduate from medical school. And of course the whole cynical women's rights convention was in the area. The Harriet Tubman house is an Auburn New York, which is about 40 miles or so, or 40 minutes or 40 miles away from Hobart college. So there's a lot of history, a lot of abolitionists history upwhere I went to school. So it was good to being in that area. I studied abroad during my junior year in Scotland. Spent six months in Scotland; in Edinburgh, Scotland. Traveled around to England, Ireland, Northern Ireland. At that time, I was the only black student part of that study abroad experience. And I remember meeting with the coordinating professor before we went. We were still on the state side and I said, \"Well, what is this trip? What do you think this trip means for an African-American student, going to a predominantly white country.\" And so we discussed all kind of like the implications of it. And, I guess what I was trying to get at was if something happens to me over there, like, will you have my back. But I guess I didn't like outline that in those words. And of course once we got over there, we traveled to Northern Ireland, We were staying in a BNB, a bed and breakfast. Me and all these students we went out one night to try to go clubbing. And I tell you literally every club that we wentn to, they refused us entrance into the club. And I just like, it didn't click until like, after we were refused like a couple of times. And I said to myself, I said \"I think it's ecause of me, that like, we're not being allowed into these spaces. And I said, you know what, like I don't really-- I think I ruined the night for everybody. I don't want to ruin it any further. You guys go have fun, I'll headback to the BNB. And that's what I did. And sure enough, everybody came back at like two o'clock in the morning or whatever, drunk, happy, excited that they were clubbing. But I wasn't happy because I missed out on that experience. And I knew because of who I was and my skin color that I was basically not allowed to participate in this part of society. And none of the other students that came in on the trip, like they didn't get it, they didn't have my back, they didn't get it. None of them offered to stay back with me. None of them stood up for me, like, \"Hey wait Nathaniel you know what, like, if you're not being allowed in like we are not going.\" So that experience stuck with me, yeah. I remember we traveled around to certain neighborhoods, and in-- I don't know how true it is today, but in the old Northern Ireland the conflicts between the Catholics and the Protestants, you can tell which neighborhood you're in by the color of the sidewalk. And we were just traveling around, I forget what kind of neighborhood we were in, I guess it really doesn't matter. But a bus full of guys had drove by us and they opened up their window and like threw cigarettes at me, and just were laughing. And it wasn't like this was done in the corner, this was done like out in the open, me with the entire student group tour group. And again, another oppurtunity for people to stand up for me. Did they? No, they did not. And I was left there with cigarette burns on my clothes and just having to deal with it, racism in another country. So it was good that I had the international experience, because primarily I was over there to study kind of like the sociological applications of religion in old Britain. But at the same time, it was like, man if had to do it all over again, I have probably went to Dakar Senegal or something like that but for my study abroad experience. And so I had many lonely nights because nobody really understood what I was going through. And yeah, so that was my study abroad experience my junior year. But I had some high points in college. I became the first black student to be elected as a student trustee, which was a major accomplishment for me. It gave me the same voting rights and power as all the actual board members of the institution. So I was actually a board member of the institution as a student during my senior year. It was a fascinating time, got to sit in on a lot of decisions, had a good amount of decision-making power. Yeah, that was-- I remember the campaign when I was campaigning for it. And, I mean nothing like what we just experienced with the presidential election, but there was a small smear campaign that was trying to rise against me; certain students, right. Because here I was, I was an independent and in a lot of ways. I wasn't part of any of the fraternities, all fraternities on campus were white. So I didn't align myself with any fraternity. I didn't align myself with any particular group. So I was seen as like this independent, but of course I had the love, admiration and support of the black and brown students on campus. A lot of other white students on campus who are allies and advocates as well. I was in good with the administration, had a lot of their support as well. So this smear campaign didn't work. I brought my knowledge and information about the student body and the issues and the problems to the forefront at the debate. I didn't ride high on the fact that I was a fraternity member, and I'm just here because I got certain brothers on the SGA who can like vouch for me. No. So I made history and I'm very proud of that. So that was a great time to be in college for me. I was also a part of the other Black and Brown groups, Latin American organizations, at that time when I was in college, they just got started. Caribbean student association, they just got started. The black student union, they just got started. So like the nineties, the nineties was where it was at. So I went to college duing a great time of just like awareness and consciousness, right. Nowadays we call it wokeness, \"are you woke?\" Back then we were like \"are you conscious?\" And, just political activism on campus. I remember when Amadou Diallo was shot by the cops, right. The cops shot at him like over 40 times. And so, I wrote a piece for the campus newspaper. Firestorm across campus because obviously Hobart is a predominantly white institution, so PWI. So it was a good number of folks that agreed with the piece; and then there was a good number of folks that, let's say, weren't happy with the piece that I wrote. But as a native New Yorker, as a fellow black men, I felt it was needful for me to get my voice out around that issue and certain injustices that were happening to me and my people. From that article, we launched a campus wide forum, and a campus visual --candle, light vigil-- which brought people together, we were able to air out certain concerns and issues that were needful. But, my college days were very alive. I mean, I guess, you know, some people say, \"Well, you know, do you wish you went to an HBCU?\" I can't say that I wish that I went to an HBCU; I'm just thankful for the experience that I had, which I believe has helped just strengthen my identity, strengthen who I am, my resolve; which I maintain to this day. So yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=2682.0,3432.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And, I mean, so that brings us towards-- you finished college in 2000 and what happens after that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=3432.0,3456.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Finished college in 2000--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=3456.0,3463.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: #NAME?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=3463.0,3496.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Oh, of course. Yeah, like there was no need for Amadou Diallo to go out like that. There was no need for George Floyd to go out like that. Like where do we draw the line between police brutality and police humanity or police servility towards citizens that look like them. Likewe're all citizens, we're all Americans, we're human beings. So like seeing that at that time, right-- And of course, growing up in New York City police brutality it's-- I mean, it was like everywhere, right. I remember, you know, the Anthony Baez incident, where he was choked out by-- much in the same way as Eric Garner. I remember a lot of things growing up, but Amadou Diallo, Patrick Doorsman, the list goes on and on. And where I draw the parallel again is, the heightened aggression towards black communities from law enforcement, angers me, it frustrates me because there's always this mountain of justification's as to why law enforcement needs to do this. Andthe same thing with George Floyd. And so, seeing Amadou Diallo, seeing George Floyd, it just unearths a ton of feelings that I can't even name; all I can do is try to express that, through tears, through deep, heavy sighing, through anger. And of course those feelings are internalized; there's even more growing distrust, discontent, just, , kind of like an inward hostility, , towards that type of law enforcement. Now I have law enforcement offices in my family. I'm not anti law enforcement; I'm anti police brutality, I'm anti white supremacy; which is the backbone of law enforcement in this country. And I think that folks need to understand that. And there's certain conversations that I can't even have with people who I know were in law enforcement, because they subscribe to a certain way of thinking that is anti-black, without even knowing it's anti-black. \"Oh well, they shouldn't have been standing on the corner.\" \"Oh well, they should have been in school at that time.\" \"Oh well, they shouldn't have been doing this and that.\" Well, the cops should not be doing X, Y, and Z. The Popo should not be doing X, Y, and Z. Like, why do they have to exert this kind of force? Why do they have to kill us? Like, I'm like, I'm sick and tired of it. Like, why do we have to die every single day over nothing? And so I expressed that as a college student. I express that now with my work with the Black Latin X Faculty Staff Association. And, it was really just, an anger that I had, that I had to like get out and. And of course putting out the Clarion Call and just really reaching out to my brothers and sisters across Queens. I needed to know, who else out there is feeling the same way that the I am? Because I don't want to believe that I am the only one that's feeling this way. Like I refuse to believe that, so I need to connect with people who are feeling this way and how are we going to comfort one another number one. And then how are we going to galvanize behind this anger, what can we do in our spaces to make this make sense? And I'm proud of the work that the Black, Latin X Factory Staff Association has done. I'm proud to be a part of it. I'm proud to be a part of this unapologetic movement that has been, I should say re-established. It is my hope, like I know that we are doing the work, but it's my hope that those that don't look like me, that those that don't look like us, that they take up the bulk of the work. Because why is it that-- why is it always, it seems that those that are oppressed are the ones to have to deal with coming up with the solutions, are the ones tasked with coming up with the answers, are the ones, you know, burden with, you know, digging themselves out of a hole that they didn't put themselves in. Like it should not rest squarely on our shoulders.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=3496.0,3957.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And I guess I really want to dive more into this; where-- could you give me the timeline of, the coming together of the BLFSA and also the statement that they come out with? And I guess my first question was like, this was in reaction to the death of George Floyd or like-- just if we could walk through that timeline as detailed and slowly as you can provide.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=3957.0,3993.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Sure. So the death of Mr. George Floyd really was the catalyst. And it was plain as day. And I think that for a lot of people like this was like deja vu, happening all over again. And, , so I, as a black man, as a black member of the Queens College community, I remember when we had the gathering in the fall of 2019. There was-- as a new employee of Queens college, I was really excited to see a lot of Black and Brown faces on campus. Black faculty, black staff, black administration, and it was a great for me to learn about who's who and connect with who's who and network, with who'swho around this common purpose of putting our vision, out front, our mission out front. How can we support each other? How can we support the students? And it was great, but then there was this kind of I'm not going to say silence, but this kind of like lull that happened. And--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=3993.0,4088.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: --And just for clarification. So like that first meeting with the black faculty at Queens college, that happened in fall of 2019, that was initiated by Dr. Brian Cooper Owens?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4088.0,4102.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: From what I remember, it was. I received an email from him, and so that meeting was convened by him from what I remember. And then there was nothing after that. And so when George Floyd was tragically killed, I said to myself: where are the voices of those that I met in the fall? Where are the cries of those that I met in the fall? And I know that they were out there, but at the time like, I wasn't hearing it. And as I said, I was angry. So I made the first move and sent out an email to the distribution list that I had saved from Dr. Cooper Owensand just, really just wanted to convene a zoom call, a space, a time for us to just speak our peice about this; and just provide a space for healing. Not really--I wasn't even thinking big picture. I was just like, yo, like somebody is going to hear my mouth right now. And the amount of responses that I got back, it was just really encouraging. So a couple of us had just banded together, created a zoom call and a good amount of people had showed up. And so from that zoom call to the drafting of demands, how they are voted to administration, and to where we are today, literally took a matter of-- I mean, everything happened like, within a matter of like, I'd say like weeks. I mean we all were just so fired up. And we were, not only were we fired up, but we were holding each other accountable, drafting a statement like, \"Yo, did you read this? Let's get some feedback. Can you pass this around? Who else is not on this distribution list? Can we get them on it? Did we miss anybody? Email that. No, let's wait till we get everybody's feedback before we finalize this.\" So we work together as a team, and really just strategize around certain points that we felt would be heard. And it was a lot of work, a lot of emails going back and forth, calls, text messages. Really is the testament to folks who just know what's at stake and just have like the, the spirit of the ancestors just flowing through them, like never before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4102.0,4352.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And who were some of the people that you were in collaboration with, and in solidarity with at the beginning of this? When you were like putting the zoom meeting together, like, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4352.0,4371.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Asia Gray, [unclear] Soba Hanao, Zabbi Gun, Norika Blackman-Richards, Jennifer Jarvis. Forgive me, I know I'm missing a lot of key people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4371.0,4400.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Alison Regis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4400.0,4400.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Patricia Yearwood-- Simone Yearwood, I'm sorry, Simone Yearwood. I believe Alicia Alvero, yeah, she was very instrental in helping us edit some of the points, And a host of other people as well. Yo you have to forgive me? I'm--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4400.0,4462.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: No that's fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4462.0,4466.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: [Inaudable] faces, but their names are not coming to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4466.0,4468.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah, no no. I mean, I think in the second part, I probably will be able to like, \"Hey, do you remember these people as well?\" And we can continue to talking about them. And, I will say with about five minutes left, and I think it's very important that we have a second session continuing this discussion, with the same length. What was it like doing this work, putting this all together with the pandemic as the backdrop?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4468.0,4511.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Well it-- obviously we saw it as a double pandemic, to put it in the words of Reverend Dr. Jamal Bryant, he serves as the senior pastor of New Birth Missionary Baptist church in Atlanta, Georgia, originally from Baltimore. He says that, \"we're in a double pandemic, black people not only fighting COVID-19, but COVID 1619.\" And by that he meant the reference to 1619 Jamestown, Virginia where the first slaves were forcibly brought here to this country. Black people in general, historically don't have a pretty narrative of immigration. It's slavery. We were brought here against our will and made to do all sorts of things. So 1619 referring to racism. And then of course, COVID-19 having to deal with this pandemic, which disproportionately affects Black and Brown communities. So how was that like bringing this altogether during this time? It was no doubt tough, but I can't say enough about just the resilience of my comrades. People just having to work through, just the mental anguish of knowing such and such a person in my neighborhood. I just saw them a week ago, a month ago, and now they're no longer here. And [snapping] people just dropping off like butter-- like flies, but still having to press through knowing that we have a mandate. Knowing that this is not just for us, but this is for our community. This is for presperity. This is-- we are writing our own narrative, our own-- this is our record. And this is things that we want to see happen. Dr. Juan Battle, the CUNY Graduate Center Presidential Professor said, and I'm going to loosely paraphrase here but: \"There's a difference between the past and history. The past is what happened, but history is what you want people to know.\" And by that he meant history is, what gets written down, history is what gets recorded. It's the things that you make a record of and you teach and you learn from it. And so, this whole coming together with the Black, Latin X Facculty Staff Association, like this is our history, this is what we want Queens college to know, this is the stuff that we want written down. We want this, we want the work that we're doing to be just as important as the mission statement of Queens college, because in our eyes, you cannot divorce the two. Queens college exists to serve its students, exists to serve all those that are part of the community, and our mission is the same. We exist to serve and to fight for our students, to fight for each other, to fight for the things that we want to see made equitable. So this is our history-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4511.0,4782.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308/transcript/39383/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I'm on mute. I think that is a good stopping point for now. I'm going.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165308#t=4782.0,4789.272"}]}]},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - Smith-Nathaniel-12082020.mp3"]},"duration":4853.47263,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/165/309/small/Screenshot_%28145%29.png?1660938306","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/165/309/original/Smith-Nathaniel-12082020.mp3?1660938182","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":4853.47263,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: All right. And I'll give the date, today is December 8th, 2020. My name is Obden Mondesir. I am collecting this oral history for the Queens College Special Collections and Archives, as well as Queens Memory around both the Black Latin X Staff and Faculty Association at Queens College and SEEK around the pandemic that we have been experiencing since March of 2020. And I am with Nathaniel Smith and we are continuing our interview from early November of 2020. And the last thing that we discussed was the formation of the BLFSA and the statement that you folks came out with, and I guess just starting from there before we go and talk about the pandemic from the beginning, since the statement, could you, could you talk more of the things that have occurred and going into this fall semester, which is-- going into this fall semester?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1.0,77.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Sure. So I mean, I am happy to report that since the formation we have made inroads [clears throat] excuse me, we have made inroads with the president and the provost, by way of our leader Soribel, who has been meeting since the summer with the president and the provost just to reiterate our demands, to make sure that our vision is clear and that there is no ambiguity coming from our side. And certainly, it's an extension of partnership to see the president and the provost looking to work with us. And so that's-- when I think about our progress so far that really stands out at the top; that we have been able to make inroads with senior leadership. And so that's from our side, we have-- Queens College has made certain steps to include within the new strategic plan --because right now they are planning for the new strategic plan-- by making it diversity that is-- by making diversity an intentional part of of the plan and of the process. So I know that since the killing of George Floyd: a lot of colleges, a lot of universities around the nation, even the former president William Tramontano was cited inside Higher Ed, an article that came out listing several college presidents who have put out statements, diversity statements, we stand against racism, etc. And a lot of colleges, universities that's all they left it at, was just a statement, but no real action. I am very hopeful that the statement that president Tramontano made which has now been picked up by president Wu is now been translated into action by making diversity an intentional part of the strategic plan. And so again, we have certain individuals, certain leadership members in BLFSA who are holding the president and the provost accountable were very, very happy about that. And so you'll see president Wu send out some emails just updating the community on where we're at regarding the diversity timeline, diversity hires. The college is now looking for a chief diversity officer. The college is also looking to hire a director of the Africana studies department. So there are certain things that are being put into place because we are in a position to apply pressure. And I believe that the existence of BLFSA, our presence will continue to drive home these points to make sure that our collective voice is heard and it's not lost. And I think unfortunately, a lot of colleges and universities around the nation, those impact statements at this point had lost impact; and we are here to make sure that our impact remains.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=77.0,354.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Wait, could you repeat-- you said that in other universities, the impact has been lost.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=354.0,362.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: So I personally believe that those impact statements are ineffective at this point, because there's no action. There's not a lot of followup that's been taking place. So it's a lot of empty talk, empty rhetoric. But who sits on the senior leadership? Who's influencing decisions? Who are the power players of the college or university on campus? Do students have advocates that they can trust and go to? Are diversity programs fully funded, or they left to fend for themselves kind of , a child in a corner on discipline. So I'm not convinced that the majority of these institutions have really followed up. It could be a number of reasons, but I think that I think that now is the time; and again BLFSA is here to make sure that that our vision of a more inclusive, diverse and equitable Queens college is manifested...You're on mute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=362.0,453.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Thanks. [Laughs] And we're in December now and George Floyd passed in May, and there seems to have been this fever pitch moment where there was a lot of protests that was happening now, and now we're in December. So now reflecting on this moment and I know that you want to continue it. What else have you seen that makes this actual police brutality similar to ones in the past or different as well?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=453.0,505.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: So you're asking how our active protest is similar to those in the past? I'm sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=505.0,514.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah, no It's a hard question to formulate, but I guess what I'm thinking about is: for me, when I experienced the shooting and that experience, but , watch this on YouTube or wherever I did. And then there was a lot of protests that occurred and a lot that I attended and I guess for me that experience, it felt different where this was much more watershed. And-- but my concern, even as it began was just that I didn't want it to be like other shootings, were other experiences with police brutality, where we all protest for a little bit and it dies down. So, I guess what I'm asking, in regards to people's attention to this, within your community and other folks, has there been anything that you've noticed between May and December?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=514.0,579.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that question. I think of your thinking as bright. We don't want to view these things as only watershed moments, but Cornell West. I think about Cornell West and something he said, something I heard him say years ago when when he was involved in the Occupy Wall Street movement, and one of the things he said was; one of the issues with the young Black community is, that they have a lot of energy but they have a difficult time coalescing that into-- or really pumping that towards one central figure. And so there is no leader of the black community is essentially what he was saying. And when I think about the issues around George Floyd and all the protests and how-- where does the protest and the passion and the anger get directed? How do we move from protest to policy? I think about the BLFSA because we consider ourselves again a collective voice for individuals on campus who who have felt voiceless. And so we consider ourselves leaders of a movement to ensure that certain things happen. That our passion isn't lost. That the fire doesn't go down.That the protest doesn't [Clears throat]-- this is our way of protest, and there are different forms of protests. There's those that walk, then there are those that talk. And so, we have our own way of protesting and the formation of this group --or the reformation, I should say-- and the resurrection of this group lends itself to that. And so we see ourselves as, that this is something for QC posterity, it's going to last, long after I'm gone; long after Soribel, Norika, Asia, Marco, Elizabeth and all the other members of the leadership, long after they're gone at the we're gone, we endeavor and we desire to see the BLFSA still in existence. Think about the NAACP. NAACP has been around for a very long time. I don't really know what the thinking was of these of these folks, W.E.B Dubois and all the others who created this and said 'well, maybe black folks could progress or things could get better in another 20 years, it'll dissolve, you won't need NAACP. I don't really know again, what the thinking was. Possibly the thinking was because this country is so racist, this organization is going to exist as long as this country exists, to make sure that Black lives matter. And so. I think about the BLMFSA in that regard too. Things, again certain of our demands are being met. We still have a long way to go, but even if all of our demands are met, that doesn't warrant the dissolution of this group, not by any means, we are here to stay, because racism runs deep; it is part of the fabric and the DNA of this country especially in education institutions and we will continue to fight and we will continue to be that face of the voiceless.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=579.0,847.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. And I guess one of the things I'd to go back to is-- what's really great about oral history interviews is, when you say things like this, with the previous interview, we understand your personal paths of how this all connects. And one thing I'd to know is; how did you get into the work that you're currently doing at Queens college? And I'm gonna, I'm gonna just start with that first part of the question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=847.0,882.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=882.0,882.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=882.0,885.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Why did they hire me in the first place? Yeah, I was hired back in the spring of 2019 but didn't start until the first Monday in June, 2019. So I was literally hired in like February, 2019. , but didn't start until until June, 2019. And previously I was at Bronx Community College working as an ASAP academic advisor, as well as the founding director of the ASAP men's round table; which was ASAPS first and only social social development program for men on campus, particularly Black and Brown men. And we-- I had students and a team of advisors who helped execute this program. It's a very, very popular program. It took off. And we had a lot of support across campus, especially within the ASAP department, but also from a good number of senior administration. We had somewhere between 12 to 1500 men who were involved in a program and it focused on leadership development. And so I took I had plenty of opportunities to present on my work in the program at different conferences around the country. From the South to West LA and connected with other individuals, other colleges-- just really serving as a resource on how to develop a campus mens program. In a lot of research circles they say MMIS or minority male initiatives. And and and so that was very exciting for me. So I did that there at Bronx Community College, had great success and was just really looking to advance my work with men and in higher ed and saw this great opportunity at Queens college with NYC men teach. And it was just the perfect fit, I am a former DOE teacher, ELA, and also worked in a charter school system for 10 years as a director. So I do have a teaching and educational background. And and I saw this program, especially their mission, to educate, engage, and empower, and really to recruit Black, Latino, and Asian men to kind of flod the DOE system. And and when I saw that the national average for men and teachers is like 2% which is, I mean, that's disgusting how low that is. And when you look at New York City, you have a system that's 1.1 million school children, easily 80% of whom are Black and Brown children. A system where roughly 70,000 are teachers or something like that-- about 70,000 in roughly 70% of the teachers are white female. That's an issue. Because again, historically racism has its tentacles in the system of education and not charging any one particular person wrongly or foolishly, but we have tolook at the system of oppression. We have to look at the system of white supremacy, how has embedded in a systems like the New York city Department of Education. And why is it that the overwhelming majority of teachers are white and not Black and Brown in a city that is overwhelmingly Black and Brown? It's mind boggling, but that is why this program exists, to address those things. So founded in 2015 NYC Men Teach really has made a lot of headway and moving the needle. Well, again, the nationwide average is 2% . We within the first few years, moved it to 8% in New York City specifically. And now we're at plus or minus 11-12% of men in the in the pipeline, in the teacher pipeline. So for me, that's exciting. I want to be a part of that. I want to be a part of this movement to empower men, to be the next generation of leaders and teachers and mentors and influences and drivers of raising this generation, and actually studies do show that across races, children prefer a black male teacher as a role model, as that front facing person in the classroom. Why? Because it lends itself to self-esteem , modeling and excellence; and all these things Black men can provide, Brown men can provide. So NYC men teach really addresses all of those things. And I'm very proud to be a part of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=885.0,1290.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: In the last interview, you mentioned that when you attended PS 85, that Mrs. Washington was a black principal that you remembered fondly cause she was always outside. Do you think her-- do you think she was an influence in any way to the work that you're doing now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1290.0,1317.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: As I look back, I could certainly owe a lot of my influence of where I am to Ms. Washington. She was a central figure back in elementary school. There was a white principal. I want to say at the time she might've been like the AP and then like, after Ms. Washington assistant principal, and then after Ms. Washington left I think she became the principal. I want to say her name was Ms. Wigdor and then she got married and she became Ms Kippycash. But, I owe my influence to folks like Ms. Washington. And she was strong, she was beautiful, she wore her hair like Clair Huxtable. She was always dressed to the nines, very sophisticated. And she was a very involved educater. Sshe was not confined to her office. She was-- always saw her in the hallways, always saw her talking to students, and, one thing she would do, she oftentimes would make it a point of meet students at eye level. So she would bend down and talk to students from what I remember. Yeah, she made it a point to make a cpnnection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1317.0,1429.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. And so, getting back to- first how you found yourself at Qeeens College and you saw this position for NYC Men Teach and you started in June. And could you describe some of the work that you were doing leading up to the pandemic?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1429.0,1460.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah, in the fall of 2019, I had , started this conference called the Innovation and Education Conference with the NYC Men Teach director of Queensborough community college. We envisioned a conference where students would be exposed to the real nitty-gritty of education. Things that they would not ordinarily learn in their undergraduate or graduate courses. And we understood that they were matriculated getting book knowledge, but we kind of envisioned a conference where they would get kind of like street knowledge about education. And so we kicked off with the inaugural last fall, with Dr. Napoleon Wells who is a psychologist at Claflin university in HBCU, South Carolina. And he's also an authentic TEDx speaker and Dr. Yolanda Sealey Ruiz, who's a Bronx New York native and also on the faculty at teacher's college, Columbia. And we also invited a good number of DOE professionals. And again, the goal was to kind of hit the students on the head with some street knowledge. Have them do some deep introspective soul work and really reflect on their why, their purpose. Simon Sinek it's kinda the-- he's the leadership expert. And he's kinda like the expert on the why. He has this whole series with like thousands of millions of views on YouTube on his why statement. And that's really what we wanted to drive the students toward. We know that you signed up for NYC Men Teach but why? Like really, why do you want to teach in a system that-- okay it's the largest public school system in the nation-- but that is fraught with so many disparities, so many inequities and inequalities, so many issues that are just persistent, pervasive. Like why, why do you want to teach in New York city? And so that was really kind of , the, the idea behind the conference and really to also equip them with with certain skills and knowledge about teaching. We-- so that was the Fall of 2019. I also started my Men Teach Monday series, which is an opportunity for students to hear from educators and experts on different educational topics. And really also to give them an opportunity to kind of, parlay with each other as well. I also started our second Saturday sessions, which was another opportunity for students to become more engaged. So this, and a host of other things I began, hit the ground running in the fall and really just tried to reengage the students because before that the position was vacant for about six months. So, me just being the creative individual that I am, had to devise these things; look at what was done in the past, capitalize on that, and then also create some new things and really rope the students back in to NYC Men Teach. Fast foreward to the spring, yeah. And then that's when the pandemic hit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1460.0,1752.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1752.0,1752.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: #NAME?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1752.0,1756.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. And then let's, let's stay there for a little bit where-- I don't think-- I'm very sure I didn't ask you the question of: what do you remember when you're working and then you found out that there was a stay at home order in the middle of March?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1756.0,1779.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah, so our office-- I work in the Dean of Education's office and our office is pretty small, pretty tight knit. Folks are always interacting with each other, chatting it up. And so when I heard that there might be a stay at home order it was like wait, what? is Like, is this really happening? So there was a lot of uncertainty, a lot of hesitancy, a lot of nervousness around the office. I think that there was also a bit of confusion because there was no-- there wasn't any direct answers for a while, because of course, CUNY was waiting on, the city and the city was waiting on the state and the state was waiting on the Fed. Sothere was this unease that was flowing in the office. But I think that once we finally got the notice, I was like, wow, okay. And I remember because I believe my last day on campus, I believe was Friday, March 13th, I believe. Yeah, Friday, March 13th. That was my last day physically in office, on campus. And just, it was weird to be honest, having been on campus daily, experiencing lots of social interaction, seeing the students, hearing the voices, hearing the chatter... It was everything came to a screeching halt. And so it was eerie, it was weird. I felt like I was at a movie and then just having to kind of experience it in real time was very surreal; very, very, very surreal at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1779.0,1983.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. And what were the first few weeks of working from home like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1983.0,1993.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Oh yeah, so, both my wife and I are remote workers and all four of our children are remote learners. With the exception of our eldest son, who's an RA. So he has to be on campus because his institution is hybrid, and he's an RA. But, those first few weeks, yeah, my, my house was like a mad house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=1993.0,2026.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Do you mind telling me: what are the ages of your kids?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2026.0,2033.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. So our eldest son at that time in March-April he was 20; our youngest son was 19, and then our two girls were 11 and 9. But, now they've all had their birthday, so they're one age up. So yeah, it was very challenging. Multiple devices pulling on the wifi, just trying to organize, all right you two in the kitchen, you two in the living room, somebody stays in their room and we all were just vying the same space of the house. It was very chaotic, very, very chaotic.\nVery unorganized most of the time, some days organized. Those first few days, first few weeks, [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2033.0,2114.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2114.0,2120.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: I'm in the 99% of America that can testify that my home was very chaotic and just trying to figure out what I'm doing, my wife, trying to figure out what she's doing. Of course, we're trying to figure out what our children are doing, our two sons, they had professors trying to figure out what they are doing. So it was quite chaotic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2120.0,2152.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. And I guess what-- so it's chaotic working from home for the first few weeks. And what was the neighborhood like? What do you remember the outside world being like in those first few weeks too?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2152.0,2175.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Quiet","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2175.0,2176.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And this is in New Jersey, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2176.0,2179.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yes. Quiet, sheltered. Just knowing that the mere threat or thought of someone breathing on, you could land you in the hospital or worse at what was this very, very scary. , so yeah, they,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2179.0,2216.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2216.0,2219.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. It w it was that the streets were very, very quiet, very, very quiet. , and it was almost almost a parent , telling the child, you don't go to your room, , , that's how, , okay. It's the government tells us to go, , to go home. , that's, that's where we're going. , and, and, and, and we're not moving, so that's, that's kinda how I would compare that to,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2219.0,2259.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Is there anything that you remember in particular seeing in those first few weeks working from home, staying at home, , I dunno, the supermarkets or the neighborhood, or any places that you would use to congregate or , see I mean, I, for me, I can, the only thing I can really remember is making a very mad dash to the supermarket, because I knew that I was under the impression. It was , all right, well, you don't want to frequent these places a lot. And then, , I think the time that I went, it was incredibly packed and that , all the toilet paper was gone. ,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2259.0,2304.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah, I still can't understand that one, but, ,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2304.0,2311.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I don't know. , I know that I bet you there's 20 articles this point about it, but , it's something I've thought about, but never looked into. , so , we're there. , yeah. Any, any sites that, that, that you remember seeing in those stairs few weeks outside of the home?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2311.0,2330.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. Similar to what you've experienced, the supermarkets were, were virtually empty. , just peppered with, , a few people here and there. , but, but, but, but even in that , it's still chaotic. , so even though there weren't a lot of people, when, when I went shopping and it was cause, cause, , cause my wife is immunocompromised. So, , I would, , I would be making all the runs. it was, they were trying to create these , , , , these flow lanes and these trucks trying to organize the foot traffic and no, no, no, don't, don't come in through this door, , coming through this door. , and and, and yeah, if it was, it was chaotic parking lots were empty for the most part. , because not a lot of people were , when you pull up to the supermarket and, , the parking lot will be full, but I think people were just really not trying to go outside. , and that's, and that's everywhere I went. , whether it was the gogi gas, go to the supermarket go pick up something at home Depot or going to have you just yeah, it was definitely a scene out of a movie. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2330.0,2443.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And, also, well you mentioned the first week it was chaotic working from home, and then how did, I guess, how did the nature of your work change once you had to work from home?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2443.0,2459.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: That's a great question. I felt I was working overtime during those first few weeks, first few months. Up until that point, I didn't spend as much time online as I ordinarily would have. It was like my screen time, it just quadrupled. And then just this kind of pull to want to ensure that that: are my students okay? What are they going through? How are they feeling? And so, I spent a lot of time online just trying to connect with the students in my program. And, some things had surfaced, one of my students had-- her youngest son had died as a result of COVID. And having to hear that, and then, speak with her about that. And that was pretty difficult. A lot of my students were in a lost space when-- during that early time. It was the rage of COVID was just really just knocking out a lot of people. Another one of my students had lost his grandfather to COVID, another one had lost their grandmother, I can just enumerate just all the deaths that my students had experienced. And and so during those early days, the intent of my program was really just to check in with students and to see how are they adjusting? Do you have WiFi at home? Do you have a safe space in your house? And to just try to help students figure that stuff out, pointing them in the right direction, giving them resources, putting them in contact with people, sharing information. There was a-- I believe there was a tech drive that was happening at the beginning that QC had initiated, so I was sharing that with students. Those that didn't have a laptop, or computer, or an iPad, tablet , here's some information. Students that couldn't pay their bills, forwarding them that information. So, a lot of it, a lot of the first few months-- first couple of weeks wasreally triage. So that was really the, the focus of the program and my contact with Susan. I really triaged and even around how our town halls we had-- so in the Fall 2019, I did start a town hall series at QC where we invited Dr. Chris Emdin to talk about hip hop education. And it was [an] amazing turnout. We had, it was 300 folks attend from across CUNY. And we had a CUNY wide NYC men teach town hall series that we launched during the pandemic. And the focus really was to just check in with students, kind of hold space as a community and a village for students who needed to just air out some stuff, and just know that we as directors and staff and administrators, we're just here for you. And students really appreciated that. I hosted a pre-Thanksgiving check-in with students recently. And one of the students had voiced that they were just really really grateful and thankful that when I checked in with him, that he saw it as authentic and genuine. And that, of course, primarily I'm interested in how he's doing academically, but he really was just appreciative of the fact that I was checking in with him socially, emotionally especially around the issues regarding his family and all the things that they've had to endure during the pandemic. So that was really, again, the focus when everything. hits. A lot of students, they just, they could not-- a lot of them had a difficult time connecting for a lot of different reasons. I mean, all of which are understandable. And so it was rough. It was very, very rough, very rough. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2459.0,2845.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. And now that I'm thinking about the line-- you're in this line of work where you're training men and women-- adults to basically become educators and we're at this point in the pandemic where the schools reopened, but then only recently reopened because the cases went up by-- I think went above 3% on a daily rate. So in regards to that, what has been your experience paying attention to what's happening to the New York city public education system and how they're dealing with the pandemic?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2845.0,2898.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah, I try to keep a pulse on what's happening in the DOB and share that with the students. Of course the delay at the beginning of the semester with the opening, the staggard opening, and then now pre-Thanksgiving, they closed down and then now this week they reopened again. And the next week I think district 75 is going to open. And and so, it's trying to counsel students through the confusion is really challenging. But it's things that we adress with the students: this is what you have to look forward to as a teacher in the DOE. You have to roll with the punches without getting punched and just being intelligent enough to navigate the different streams of communication sometimes, which are very conflicting. I think what has been helpful is our partners at the DOE on the NYC Men Teach side, we're able to connect our students to them so that way they get on the ground information. So that way they get inside information, things-- information that's useful and helpful to them. Information such as, tutoring positions that are available. Information such as substitute positions that are available; because we have students that are undergrad, as well as grad. So really the substitute positions up for those students that are involved in our grad programs. But we consider ourselves a village. And so we stay connected with a lot of networks, with a lot of information. We're able to share that with the students so that waythey're not lost; especially when the pandemic hit going into the summer. And of course the city and the state there was a lot of almost on a daily basis information about certification, the exam schedule, their student teaching observation hours, the information was changing that almost on a daily basis. And so, we tried to keep up with that information and share with students in real time. And so the pandemic has presented a lot of challenges, but we were able to help students navigate those challenges.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=2898.0,3076.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. And, so as a parent, and the director of NYC men teach: how do you feel about how the DOA and basically education systems in general in the US have been dealing with this? How has it felt?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=3076.0,3108.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: There's always room for improvement. I'll start by saying that. A colleague of mine had mentioned that there was a school that opened up in Brooklyn that had students-- that had confined students to a particular room, but there was no teacher, the teacher was teaching virtually, but the students actually had to show up physically. It doesn't make sense, right? So we have instances where that's the case. I think that having teachers and administrators leave in droves because there is no clear cut sense of direction, I think is a travesty, because ultimately the students are negatively impacted. I think that in 2020, where even before 2020, where technology is said to advance, or as technology is said to quadruple every two or three months. For us to be in 2020 and educational systems have yet to figure out how do we embed technology into our learning systems, I think is a travesty. And that goes for Higher ED as well as P-K to 12. I think simply handing out iPads and computers or laptops is a start, but that isn't ultimately the answer. I think that a lot more needs to be done with educational systems, certainly in New York city, but also nationwide. I think that space needs to be given to really seriously how how parents how their voice lends itself to their child's education. I think that it's a shame that educational-- that their schools and systems are are still relying heavily on disciplinary measures, which disproportionately impact Black and Brown students. I just think that we need to be a little bit more creative and understanding and in fact I think schools have lost empathy. I think teachers have lost empathy. I think that leadership have lost empathy. How can you discipline a child who lives at home with four, five, six other people in the house; everybody's sharing the wifi, maybe there's one computer, and it's-- lets say one or two bedroom apartment or something that. Parents may, or, the guardians may or may not be employed. They may be food insecure, but you want to discipline them because they didn't log in to their synchronous or asynchronous class at the designated time, and they didn't hand in their assignment at the designated time. And I understand that we ought not to lose direction and instruction. We ought not to lose structure. I get that, but allowances should be made for freedom of education, freedom of expression and how students actually do and complete the work. They do so at private schools, why not at public schools? So there is this philosophical allowance that's made for students to exist in a private school space that does not-- that isn't manifested in a public school space. And, we can even talk about how school discipline is even rooted in white supremacy and how these measures historically lock out Black and Brown students from white spaces. So \"this is our space, we don't have to deal with them, so let's just expel them so that way we can continue doing what we're doing\". School disciplinary measures are fundamentally rooted in white supremacy. It's racist in practice. So we have to rethink how we discipline students in an online environment. So I think that schools need to be-- that schools need to do better. I think that they need to-- there's so much that I can say. I think that here we are, what seven, eight, nine months later or whatever. And I feel we're still not there. Even a zoom platform which is great, and of course everybody's flocking to it as one of the many platforms. But fundamentally, zoom, I think zoom as a business platform, not an educational platform. But how come schools and educational leaders haven't thought about this before COVID? And I mean, we are living in the technological age, so how come they have not thought about creating an educational technological platform that really bodes well virtually for schools and for students? These are the things that I think about. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=3108.0,3592.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Mm. And has there been any experiences with your children's education where-- I mean, this is important about your experiences, by what you see by your kids and as the director, I guess. And, we were initially talking about your work with your program in the spring, and then we also talked about, what's it been like in the fall, with providing support to people. Now we're in this very interesting period where there has been a discussion of a vaccine and this vaccine being promulgated is not the right word, just being administered. So yesterday, a 90-year old woman received the first vaccine in England. So like, I guess I don't want to jinx it, but it seems there's light at the end of the tunnel in a certain way. But, I guess, with this new development, what are your feelings, based on your experience towards this idea of there being a vaccine and that some things will be changing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=3592.0,3686.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. That's interesting you bring that up. My wife and I were actually talking about that yesterday I believe. A 90 year-old woman as opposed to, let's say a 39 year-old woman or 49 year-old woman. And the 90 year-old woman could very well be healthy and strong. But, that's just my personal opinion of why test it on somebody that age? And I'm not trying to sound ageist more realist. I think back to the interview that Dr. Fauci had with Mark Zuckerberg and was a Facebook interview he did I want to say a couple of weeks ago. And the question was, how do- what is the vaccine or the promise of a vaccine mean for black and Brown communities? And Dr. Fauci said, we-- the first thing I want to say is that the coronavirus, as we all know, has disproportionately impacted Blacks in the United States. And that in and of itself is a travesty. Lack of health care, access to medical facilities, lack of insurance. So all of those things kind of play into it As well as medical apartheid and racism. So from there, he said that when you think about the historical implications of vaccines and the black community. There are a lot of issues and he cited the Tuskegee experiment, and he says, if we just take that one experiment-- that one experiment has left a bad taste in the mouth of the black community. And I agree, I thought about that, and I agree; because, excuse me, why is it that , if there's a vaccine or promise of a vaccine that, black people are the first ones to be the Guinea Pigs or the first ones to be tested for it? Oh, well, they're the ones that die at a higher rate-- at a faster rate, maybe we should give it to them first and see how it works. No, that's, that's not how it works. , so Dr. Fauci was like, we need to look at issues like that, and you can see why the black community is hesitant about a vaccine and whether or not it will work for them specifically. And so, I kind of agree. I think about the Tuskegee experiment. I think about all of these syphilis experiments that were done on on black people. I think about how Lincoln hospital in the Bronx, in I want to say the sixties, seventies, or eighties-- that there was a study that was done on Black and Latino women who were being tested for something else, I want to say they were being tested for an STD. But what ended up happening is they were in fact, undergoing surgery for hysterectomies. So they went into the study thinking it was something else, but they were actually being Guinea Piged for something totally different. And that, and that was done at Lincoln hospital in the Bronx. And don't quote me, I want to say the sixties, seventies, or eighties, that it was some major, study that was done on minority women who were being tested for one thing, but actually ended up getting hysterectomies as a result. And of course, when you think about that and you think about this vaccine, of course it's going to help lots of people that, that is the promise anyway, that it's going to help lots of people. And of course, there's always that skepticism that looms over: wow this is kind of fast for this vaccine to have been created, knowing historically it takes at minim two years. And, you gotta go through the test period, the trial period, it has to be vetted, and then you have to have all these independent experts and scientists, and then these patents-- there's a lot that goes in and we're talking about less than one year. So , we can only hope that the vaccine will help, but I'm of the persuasion that I am personally hesitant because I don't really know what this vaccine means. I don't really know what it does. , I don't know what are the long-term effects of-- I mean, we know what the effects of COVID are and we are still learning, I don't know the long-term effects of this vaccine that has yet to, to be seen. And of course, Dr. Fauci and a lot of experts that are talking about the efficacy of this vaccine and-- but I think I'm proceeding with the healthy dosage of skepticism. And I believe I have every right to be skeptical at this particular point. I'm just not sure given the-- how black people have been used as Guinea Pigs in this country for lots of things. A lot remains to be seen. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=3686.0,4178.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yyeah, no, I agree with a lot of what you said, and, these interviews are supposed to be about experiences and we're at a particular moment where it's just-- we're not talking about something a few years ago, we're talking about the now. And, understanding of this now's history. And I guess one of the things, when I think about all of these interviews is that there seems to be this incongruity of time and logic, right, because I think in a perfect world or-- and that perfect world for me is a world without capitalism-- that we'd have this situation, right, we'd have this pandemic that we're dealing with. And I think what I find frustrating about the idea of a vaccine or the promise of a vaccine is that it sounds a quick fix. And, capitalism is all about quick fixes. Let's fix this so we can get back to our lives. So we can get back to making money and doing all that stuff. When I feel in actuality, things that should have happened, things that have been avoided is a long look at the systems that we exist within, where, something this happens, and we haven't been able to really get a handle on it. We can't even discuss, hey, maybe we should just shut everything down for seven weeks and deal with it that way. other spaces have done that. China literally told everyone, not everyone, but told a good number of people stay home and we can get over this. And, I just think , so when I think about the vaccine, I think about time and , when you say it takes two years that's my biggest concern. They're rushing towards this. And it makes-- there are people that, that will need to take it and then but it's one of those weird things to navigate where there's science behind it, but , it's not all the way seen through. And, I don't want to be a guinea pig and historically African-Americans and people of the diaspora and black and Brown folks have been experimented on for multiple things; all types of sciences and all types of practices. So yeah, I don't know. I think we're in a really, really interesting moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=4178.0,4341.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: Yeah. It makes me think about: all right, if we can come up with a vaccine for COVID-19, can we also come up with a vaccine to cure AIDS or HIV? Are there measures in place that we can haltor eradicate certain diseases? Of course there's the vaccine for malaria and smallpox. But , why isn't the same speed and aggression being put towards these things, a cure for sickle cell, cure for cancer-- and we know that at different cancers, there's breast cancer, prostate cancer, colorectal cancer, skin cancer, , cancer of the liver, cancer... So we know that there are folks out there and that there's money out there that can be given towards these projects, but, it just tells me that something else is-- something is very wrong. And granted, pandemic only comes once every hundred years or what have you. And so an argument can be made that this is a special dispensation, so there's a need for it. I mean, I get that, but I don't know, something just still seems just very wrong, and I'm hesitant. Yeah. Hopeful, but hesitant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=4341.0,4467.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah, I think that's a good space to be within. And I mean, at this point I do want to stop. I don't want to, stop this interview. I think I've reached my interviewing limit. I will add an hour and 16, so I'm going to pause the recording.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=4467.0,4495.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: So the next three months for myself, QC, BLFSA, I hope that 2021 will kind of usher in a-- even though we're still going to be quarantined, even though I'm still going to be quarantined, still going to be home because QC is-- the campus will be closed for the entire spring semester; my hope is that 2021 will be, will usher in, I should say, just the promise of hope and much needed healing. I kind of want to see us, myself, my family, my community, to see my program BLFSA, all of CUNY get over this hump. I wanna say even at this point, this still no budget, or the budget hasn't been approved or CUNY is still operating without a budget, the pandemic has wreaked havoc on CUNY.\nSo my hope is that these next three months will see a more positive turnaround. I think that a lot of renewed energy has happened around getting our students in general excited about voting or exercising their right to vote. And so, talking to them about the idea of change and seeing themselves in light of that change, my hope is that these next three months the idea of change will materialize for a lot of my students as they envision themselves as a change agent, a teacher standing in front of a classroom or zoom class or virtual classroom. BLSA as change agents for QC. Myself as a change agent for my class, for my for my program, as a parent a change agent, as a spouse a change agent. So I remain hopeful for these next three months and, do I see us coming out of this pandemic anytime soon? I don't. I personally, I think that we're going to be wear a mask for easily four or five years. , that's just my personal opinion [laughter].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=4495.0,4706.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: [Laughter] It was the prospect of work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=4706.0,4708.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nathaniel Smith: But yeah, no, I think that it's going to become a normal part of our wardrobe, our daily activity. It's going to be what we need to survive. Just having a mask in your back pocket, in your purse, at the ready because that's what we need to do to help each other survive. So I think these next three months is really just gonna-- I'm hopeful, I hope that-- One of my students, sadly told me that he's going to have to leave the program and leave QC and relocate because his family has experienced too much trauma during the pandemic here in New York. And so when you hear that, when I heard that, I was like wow, is there anything that I can do? And he's like, Mr. Smith, I mean, you've, you've done enough, you've just been a listening ear. You've been very supportive, you've been an advocate, but we just have to leave New York because it's just, it's too much death and destruction and we have to just kind of press the reset button elsewhere. And so I hope 2021 would be a much needed reset for him, my other students, for all of us, really. And again, I'm just, have to remain optimistic about how things will work out with the the change in government, the change that we hope to see at QC. And that's where I think I'll leave it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=4708.0,4849.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309/transcript/39384/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. All right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/78038/file/165309#t=4849.0,4853.47263"}]}]}]}