{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/8w3804z50f/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Leslie Francis (Skip) Griffin, Jr. Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eLeslie Francis Griffin, Jr., colloquially known as “Skip,” is the son of Reverend L. Francis Griffin, who coordinated with Dr. Rachel Weddington to have Queens College students tutor children in Prince Edward County during the summer of 1963 as part of the Student Help Project. The public schools of Prince Edward County were closed for five years starting in 1959 in massive resistance to integration, denying many of the local young black students access to education, including Skip Griffin and his siblings. In this interview, Skip Griffin recalls his father’s prominent position as the reverend of Farmville’s First Baptist Church, president of the Prince Edward County Christian Association, and the county coordinator of the NAACP. Although his father was a renowned advocate for civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s, Griffin remarks on the influence his father’s activism had on their family, as well as the community as a whole. Skip Griffin himself was not a student of the Student Help Project during the pivotal summer of 1963, but he explains his own involvement in civil rights activism as a teenager that subsequently led him to continue his work while attending Harvard University.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/40445"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2021-02-17 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Leslie Francis (Skip) Griffin, Jr. (Interviewee)","Victoria Fernandez (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College “Student Help: Lived Experience” Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1959-1965 (temporal)","Virginia; Prince Edward County (Va.) (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eLeslie Francis Griffin, Jr., colloquially known as \u0026ldquo;Skip,\u0026rdquo; is the son of Reverend L. Francis Griffin, who coordinated with Dr. Rachel Weddington to have Queens College students tutor children in Prince Edward County during the summer of 1963 as part of the Student Help Project. The public schools of Prince Edward County were closed for five years starting in 1959 in massive resistance to integration, denying many of the local young black students access to education, including Skip Griffin and his siblings. In this interview, Skip Griffin recalls his father\u0026rsquo;s prominent position as the reverend of Farmville\u0026rsquo;s First Baptist Church, president of the Prince Edward County Christian Association, and the county coordinator of the NAACP. Although his father was a renowned advocate for civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s, Griffin remarks on the influence his father\u0026rsquo;s activism had on their family, as well as the community as a whole. Skip Griffin himself was not a student of the Student Help Project during the pivotal summer of 1963, but he explains his own involvement in civil rights activism as a teenager that subsequently led him to continue his work while attending Harvard University.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA\u0026nbsp;Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/115/200/small/SHPInterview_SGriffin_VFernandez_02172021_IMAGE.png?1621959740","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - SHPInterview_SGriffin_VFernandez_02172021.mp4"]},"duration":3436.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/115/200/small/SHPInterview_SGriffin_VFernandez_02172021_IMAGE.png?1621959740","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/115/200/original/SHPInterview_SGriffin_VFernandez_02172021.mp4?1621959684","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3436.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay, so we're recording, but we'll start by introducing ourselves. So I'm Victoria Fernandez, the Freda S. and J. Chester Johnson Civil Rights and Social Justice Fellow at Queens College Library for this year. And today is February 17th, 2021. We're recording this interview using Zoom video conferencing and it's being recorded for the Queens College Special Collections and Archives, along with the que— Queens Memory Project. So Skip, I'll let you go.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=0.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Yes. Well, I'm known generally as Skip Griffin. I'm really L. Francis Griffin, Jr., the oldest son of the Reverend L. Francis Griffin of Prince Edward County. My sisters and I were plaintiffs in the suit that, the second Prince Edward suit, that resulting it in reopening of schools. The case was heard in March of 1964. It worked its way through the federal courts and resolved later that summer.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=30.0,65.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Great. Thank you. So just to, to give a little more preface, we're going to be talking sort of around the Student Help Project that Queens College students were a part of. But it's great to have you here, Skip, because you lived in Virginia, you were part of the community in Prince Edward County, so we won't be asking the usual questions. What I wanted to start with is, what was it like growing up in Prince Edward County at the time and how old were you by the summer of 1963?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=65.0,98.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: So it was different for me. So, so first of all, it was a small Southern town in a closely-knit community. The town was the county seat of Prince Edward, but it was the hub of a six county region that provided the local warehouse and auctioning for tobacco growers. And the time I was growing up, tobacco was the primary cash crop and just about all farmers had some of their land dedicated to growing tobacco. It was a close-knit community, segregated, you know. And it was, you know, the white and only colored signs were prevalent during most of my growing up years. But, so two things. My father was very much involved in civil rights, not just in Prince Edward County, but in the state of Virginia and throughout the South. So I lived as a, as a kid whose father was the, had a significant sized church for that kind of region. And we, you know, and I had friends. And it was really other than the, you know, it's a paradox. It was a great life growing up, but we were very much aware of segregation and, and I was very much aware of my father's efforts to dismantle segregation. So it was a great childhood with respect to swimming and fishing and doing all the things that rural children do.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=98.0,205.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And can you talk a little bit more about your father's position, position in the community? He was reverend. A lot of the alumni that I've interviewed recall him having such a high presence in, in Farmville. Basically anybody at his beck and call because he was so, so valuable to the community.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=205.0,226.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, it, you know, so my father served in World War II and like I tell people probably one of the great unknown sort of catalyst for the Civil Rights Movement was that Black men who served in World War II— some put the numbers as high as five hundred, maybe six hundred thousand. And they, they ex— you know, when they returned from the effort, they, they felt like they had given their lives to defending democracy and, and freedom, you know, if a European peoples and they, they were returning, you know, to a situation where they didn't enjoy the privileges of democracy themselves. So my father was searching around. He sort of became active, well most people remember him becoming active shortly after the war. He was affiliated with the NAACP, but his leadership got a kickstart when Barbara Johns led a walkout of the 450 students at the local high school protesting inadequate facilities.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=226.0,297.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And later that was converted to a desegregation case. And the students walked out in April of '51, they had nowhere to go. They turned to my father who had a reputation for being progressive and for being a protégé of Reverend Vernon Johns, who is from Prince Edward County, who had proceeded Martin Luther King at Dexter Avenue \n[Baptist Church] and Johns was well-known in theological circles. And he was a brilliant man and sort of the carrier of the earliest Civil Rights Movement. And so when the kids walked out, my father, you know, agreed to meet with them, and then they converted to a desegregation case. And, and there was a massive reaction by the state of Virginia resulting in closed schools in '59. And he was also affiliated with the NAACP. Although probably energetically, he would have been a better fit in SCLC, King's organization. He always felt that the NAACP had a wider organizational reach. And they certainly, at that time, had the NAACP Legal Defense Fund, which was, you know, Thurgood Marshall was still there and not in the federal court system. So yeah. I mean, so, so dad was, he was both a pastor of a significant church and, you know, performed weddings and funerals and baptisms and intervene on behalf of people with government agencies. And he was also a civil rights activist.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=297.0,402.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. That's great. And so was most of his activism centered around education? Is that just something that fell into place for the work that he did sort of in massive resistance to the schools closing? Or was he always centered on, on educational initiatives?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=402.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, he, so to the Queens College people and to a lot of the outside world, they would probably say that they, they, they remember his leadership as focused primarily on school and education issues. But to, you know, others throughout the state, he was, he was in for the whole thing. The educational thing was just his sort of portal into the Civil Rights Movement. But he, you know, as a child, you know, people came through and he was involved in voter registration efforts. He was involved in efforts to desegregate libraries in Petersburg and to desegregate facilities and stores and stuff in Richmond. I mean, he, he went, he did a lot of work in Prince Edward, but I would say he, he, he was in Richmond and— well, he traveled throughout the state. I can recall in 1958, '59, he purchased a new car. And by the end of the year, he had 90,000 miles on the car.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=420.0,495.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: So he, he and Mr. Lester Banks, who was the executive secretary or whatever, field secretary for the NAACP. Banks had the equivalent position of med gab is in Virginia. And the two of them were buddies. And along with Oliver Hill and Sam talk on a young Henry Marsh, they canvas the state. So, I mean, I, I tell people who are activists today. They don't quite understand what it was like in that era, men and women who were involved in activism that day. It was 24, seven, 365 days a year and I say that, you know. So other than a few days that he took off for hunting, he was an avid hunter, you know, mostly, every day was dedicated to spreading the gospel or doing something for civil rights.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=495.0,549.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And that leads into my next question. Did that ever come as a burden to you and your family, the work that he was doing? Or was it sort of more of a positive impact? How did you perceive that as a child?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=549.0,565.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Oh, no. Is it— so there are six of us. We're sort of split there. There are the three older ones, sort of in-between girl and the two younger boys. And during the period of us three older children, it was a significant burden to the family. You know, at that— you know, you know, Virginia had an interesting approach to how they dealt with people who were involved in civil rights. They, they didn't particularly like the Klan's approach of lynching and bombing, although there were one or two attempts to bomb our house that the guy didn't connect it up correctly. But the way that Virginia dealt with it was, you know, at a, at a high-class level, so to speak. They put tremendous economic pressure on anybody who was involved. They punished their friends for being affiliated with them.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=565.0,626.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And, and, you know, there were the harassing phone calls and, and, and, you know, it— life was, for the first years, I would say from, you know, when he first became engaged in '51, I mean, we were really young, but from '51 through about 1961, it was extraordinarily difficult for the family, you know. And I think that people, you know— so we were aware of the, you know, Medgar Evers, and King, and some people who followed Malcolm X. But I tell people, you have no idea the cost that the— people will say, \"Well, I would have been a hero, I would have been involved.\" And I said, no, you wouldn't. They have no idea what the burden was on the families. And it was, some in the deeper South, it was the direct violence. And in places like Virginia and North Carolina was, you know, economic and social pressure.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=626.0,691.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And my father was subpoenaed, you know. The rumor was and so for several years, and as many times anybody in the state of Virginia in an attempt to make him give up the membership list of the NAACP. I mean, for the most of the fifties, the NAACP was more feared than, than the SCLC and SNCC. I mean, later on in the sixties, as the large scale demonstrations took place, you know, it shifted to SNCC. But you know, they, they continuously harassed him and, and subpoenaed him and dragged him into court, he and Mr. Banks, trying to make them give up the membership list of the NAACP.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=691.0,738.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Thank you. And you said that that seemed to lighten up after '61 and some, for some of your younger siblings. What was sort of the catalyst there?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=738.0,748.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well by then, you know, he had sort of, you know, so, so if you, if you can stay the course and you can survive, and live and, and, and with, and not be overwhelmed by the efforts of the state apparatus and powerful business people to break you, you obtain iconic status. So somewhere, by, by the summer of '63, you know, things with respect to our living conditions had started to shift. And you know, and, and, and, you know, my father had obtain, obtained a certain status, which, which shifted the way even the white community engaged with him. Certainly by '63, you know, he was respected. I would say a bit feared but, and the economic hardships on our family had begun to ease.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=748.0,805.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And, and shifting a little bit, how, how does the, the, the school closures in '59 in result of massive resistance, how does that change your own childhood?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=805.0,817.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, probably— it's an interesting question. I think there's some pluses and minuses. But you have to sort of, the thing is being, you know, being my fath— you know, we, we were aware, I was aware, based on the conversations that were taking place in our household or at the church when I would hang around with my father when the lawyers came around or when the, all the activists or journalists came around. I was aware that there was high probability or likelihood that schools would be closed. I think it came as a shock to many people. But, you know, base— you know, I was old enough and somewhat precocious, and my father had a, you know, and Vernon Johns and others—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=817.0,869.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: \n[Phone ringing] Oh, hold on just a second.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=869.0,874.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: I'm sorry. So I was aware that schools would close and you know, in many ways, you know, we had my sister— two sisters that were closer to me in age, we had access to, to meeting all, you know, like significant figures in the movement, you know, access to journalists. And, you know, it was a kind of education that one wouldn't ordinarily get. I mean, and so while we didn't attend formal schools, you know, we, we met significant people. My father always allowed us to participate in conversations if people visited our homes— our home. And I sort of tagged along with him from an early age when possible.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=874.0,955.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And, you know, my father, they called him Dr. Griffin, and most of his friends that stood with him— there were, there were people who stood and who were the backbone of the movement. They used to call me \"Little Doc.\" So. And so, you know, I got to meet people and they, they opened me to a world that I, as a normal rural, Southern boy, I probably wouldn't have been aware of. Yeah. And the first— you know, we were out of school like every, like the majority of kids, and our mother had been trained as a teacher and she ran activities in our house. And my father had books everywhere. And, you know, we were all avid readers from an early age and we read stuff that was way beyond our age level. And yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=955.0,1013.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Did your mother include other, other community members, other young kids?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1013.0,1018.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Sometimes, sometimes. This was before they had the network of learning centers. But no, it was mostly her children and one or two neighbors, but yeah. I mean, she would use everything— cooking. She would use cooking to teach us how to measure, and she could convert stuff from ounces to metric. And so, you know, she was very creative and later, years later, returned to teaching then. People— she was a very creative teacher.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1018.0,1048.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: That, that's so interesting to hear. I know some of the, some of the other interviewees, they remarked that students who could— Black students who could afford it at that time were sent to live with other family members in outside towns to attend school. And I thought that was the case, so, so thank you for mentioning it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1048.0,1065.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, we were out of school from '59 to '60. The problem is the state, and there's a college there, it was Longwood College. It was a teacher's college for women only. It's now become a university and it's, you know, co-ed. But the state wanted to expand the college, so they use eminent domain to take our houses. Meant there was a significant middle-class house— I mean, middle-class neighborhood right adjacent to the school. They use eminent domain. That was one of my first big words I learned. Or terms, rather. And they took our house and so we were having— there weren't a lot of homes available to Blacks. And so we had to go one year to New Jersey where my mother's from, my grandfather owned the farm there, a significant farm. And he was a successful farmer and had business contracts that supplied tomatoes and green peppers and asparagus to the canning facility that supplied A\u0026P and Del Monte. And we lived there from '59 to '60, and then we returned after that. We were able to build another home.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1065.0,1147.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And, and your father didn't— did he travel with you to New Jersey for that?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1147.0,1150.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: No, no. He stayed doing his activities and lived in, in a wing of someone's house. And then the fall of '61, he took me out of school and brought me back and I lived with him. And because I was the first plaintiff in Griffin v. Board \n[County School Board of Prince Edward County] that was making its way through the Virginia Supreme Court system. So I was out of school '59, 60. I was in school '59, '60, and I was out of school '61, '62.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1150.0,1182.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And how old were you in '59?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1182.0,1185.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: I was turning twelve.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1185.0,1188.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh, wow. Okay. I thought you were much younger though.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1188.0,1190.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: No.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1190.0,1190.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay, great.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1190.0,1192.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: No, no. I was— the people confuse— I was sort of, and I was a precocious, I was tall for my age and not as heavy as I am now. And I was, you know, you know, people always said that I grew up, I was grown— I was born grown. I didn't become a kid 'till I was thirty, you know. But so yeah, no, I was, I was already moving about, and I had been, I had spent time with Vernon Johns, who was absolutely brilliant. He already had me reading, you know, Paul Tillich and Reinhold Niebuhr and Howard Thurman, you know. I didn't— every fourth or fifth word I'd have to look up, but, you know, that, that was my immersion into, into the sort of philosophical underpinning of the movement.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1192.0,1250.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And, and moving towards, towards the summer of '63 when, you know, these to put it very, very, brashly these, these groups of white students who weren't much older than you, probably by a handful of years, what was that like to see them come down and, and be part of that instruction?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1250.0,1274.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, we had, I had become used to people coming in. They had never come in in those numbers, but we'd had some, actually student, a white student from Richmond who were local Virginians who had come to help out. And there had been a smattering of other students. You know, it wasn't— you know, we were conditioned, a handful of us to, to expect that this was gonna happen and be possible. So we welcomed them. We saw them as being helpful, and it was really important for some of the kids to have this experience of, you know, solid integration and meet these kids. But they were all, you know, special kind of people, you know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1274.0,1328.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Did you have any, did you grow any particular connections with any of the Queens College students? I'm curious how, how you and Lenny are so close now.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1328.0,1337.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, yeah, Lenny and Bonnie you know, we had lots of con— my father— you know, one of the interesting things people don't realize is that many of the ministers who formed the backbone of the Civil Rights Movement, either by virtue of going to seminary or by virtue of, many of them also sort of blended a kind of brand of they were auto-didactics. They read, they, they tutored and, and helped each other to grow. So my father could read and speak Hebrew. And so Lenny was kind of shocked and they engaged with this. And so I knew him. Stan I remember, but Mike Wiener?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1337.0,1386.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Wenger, yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1386.0,1386.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Yeah. He was, you know, we stayed connected over the years. And a couple of them, Sheila Hartman, I think her name was, stayed on and taught in the free schools. I'm trying to— Jean somebody. I don't— she later became Jean Stein, I think. You know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1386.0,1407.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Jean Konzal was her name, yeah. I've spoken with her.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1407.0,1410.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And then there was somebody else I don't remember, who actually the model for the Mississippi Free Schools was based on the model of the community learning centers in Prince Edward. Ivanhoe Donaldson from SNCC recruited a couple of people out of the Queens \n[College] group and they went to Mississippi and shared with people how and help set up the Freedom Schools. But, yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1410.0,1434.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: No one has mentioned that. So I have to go back and kind of pull that out and see who that was.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1434.0,1438.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Yeah. There were, there were a couple of people out of the Queens group that Ivanhoe Donaldson asked to help him. Think— and I think one or two of them actually went to Mississippi to help put together the Mississippi Freedom School that summer. Now ironically, I listened to some of the other interviews, either you or Lenny sent them to me. Now, I don't, I don't, you know, know how Rachel Weddington got in touch with my father or how he got in touch with her. But my mother's, my mother's father, they owned a farm in Swedesboro, New Jersey, which is down \n[Route] 322 from Atlantic City. But in the winters when she was young, the farm had belonged to my grandmother's parents, but he— her father didn't want her, her brothers to have it because he felt they would sell it all. So he sold it to my grandfather, who was her husband. But they, for a while, when, in our formative years, they, they lived in Atlantic City and she attended Atlantic City High School early on and was one of the few Blacks in the late thirties.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1438.0,1518.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And somewhere along the line, either after she enrolled in Shaw, which is a historically Black college in Raleigh where she and my father met, she knew Rachel Weddington. As a matter of fact, she always remarked that once she met Dr. Weddington, then she knew that she was going to be a teacher because she wanted to be like her. She admired the way she carried herself and the way she dressed. And some encounter early on either at the beginning of college or in high school, she, she, she— and when they met, when she came there to visit, she realized she knew my mother. I don't think my mother put them together, but they knew each other prior to the people becoming involved.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1518.0,1566.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh, what a small world. Okay and—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1566.0,1566.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And I was listening to the interviews and they apparently were unaware of that, but there was a connection between my mother and Dr. Weddington, although I don't think that that was instrumental in putting them together with my father. But I don't know, you know?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1566.0,1584.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Yeah. I do, I do know that a lot of them attribute the reason why they went down to Virginia is because of Rachel Weddington had that connection with your father.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1584.0,1592.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Yeah. But I mean, she had a connection that she discovered. I know that I, they engaged a couple of times when she came down and she had a connection with my mother, and she was quite aware of it and they had a connection prior to that. My mother had a connection with her first.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1592.0,1612.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. That's, that's definitely very interesting. Wow. Okay. Thank you. And so did, did you feel as a young student, or maybe your siblings, that the initiative in 1963 in the summer prepared you to, to go back to school in the fall?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1612.0,1633.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: I think it prepared a lot of students, you know. So there were a handful of us, you know, like when you look at the Little Rock Nine, or if you look through many of the cities with desegregation occurred, there were a handful of us who had already being groomed to integrate the schools, if that had transpired. So I would say that there was about thirty or forty of us. No, it didn't help. But for the majority of students, it did help. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1633.0,1664.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh, okay. Alright.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1664.0,1665.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: So I would be in the group that probably would not— and I wasn't engaged with them as much because we were busy trying to quietly organize and get ready for demonstrations. I would say that there had been thirty or forty of us who, who would being groomed too— This is a story that's not being told. You know, that when, in any of these communities where the effort was about to desegregate, they always hand-picked a group of kids and started grooming them for, you know, preparing them academically, but also prep— preparing them emotionally and psychologically to be able to do it and, and survive in these situations.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1665.0,1714.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: So personally, you know, I was just glad to see them and it was fun to engage. But I would say for the majority of students, it was very helpful. Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1714.0,1725.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And you said they would pick thirty to forty students to prepare them—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1725.0,1730.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: I'm saying in most towns, it may not be that number, but they would pick a number of students and, you know, like the Little Rock Nine were all groomed, they weren't accidental, you know. And, you know, they would, you know, they would, and they would make sure that their parent— they had parental and community support and they would walk you through what to expect and how to conduct yourself and that kind of thing.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1730.0,1755.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. That's fairly interesting. Yeah. Obviously I've never heard of that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1755.0,1760.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, there are a lot of things like that. Like there were a group of people up in Lynchburg and who would— and different places. You know, they didn't just throw the students willy-nilly into— in the beginning phases. Later on when the, you know, large numbers of kids— Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1760.0,1786.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And so you said you were preparing for demonstrations. Can you just talk a little bit more about that? I know that simultaneously, there were some SNCC or NAACP demonstrations, I'm not particularly sure which were, I think it was more SNCC, that were happening over the summer.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1786.0,1803.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, I listened to the interviews. My father, the, the im— the, the push for that actually came from a group of us, local kids. We want to and we'd been pushing. I mean, I was young. I was, you know, just shy of my sixteenth birthday. I was sort of in the middle of the pack. People don't realize that the young people sort of— how much, how much the movement depended on young people. And so, you know, they said SNCC demonstrations, but my father had requested from SNCC that they send two people in to help train us, but we were, we had been pushing on him for years, you know, you know, since, you know, as early as when I was thirteen to do direct demonstrations. He didn't want to do that cause the NAACP wanted to pursue legal, legal approach. And then he, you know, became elected President of the NAACP State Conference. And, you know, he had always been on the more militant wing of the NAACP and, you know, he persuaded the national office to allow them to, and allow the youth chapters to do demonstrations. But he felt that they needed, the NAACP didn't really know how to prepare people for the demonstrations. So he actually invited the SNCC people to the counter.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1803.0,1900.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And preparing in the same way that you said, sort of like mentally—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1900.0,1904.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, they taught us how to do nonviolence. We had workshops before we actually started the demonstrations. You know, how to protect yourselves if they started beating on you, what to do when you were arrested and how to, how to adhere to nonviolence. But there was, there was a cadre, you know myself, Carlton Terry, Catherine Scott, maybe Ernestine Lan and, and Betty Jean Ward, and a few others that had been pushing on my father. And so they developed, along with Reverend Douglas who— and Sammy Williams and Reverend Douglas would have made major liaisons from the adult community. Both were pretty young. Sammy grew up there. Douglas was a new from, you know, was at the AME Church. A lot of the Queens people became associated with him. And yeah. They, they, they, they included us as sort of the youth leaders who recruited other kids.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1904.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And was that— recruited other kids, were they friends of yours? Were they just students in the community that sort of had the same gusto?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1980.0,1989.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Both. Both, both. I mean, part of what SNCC did was the teach— You know, we were already, most of us, really enthusiastic about the movement and we wanted to be active. And it was really, you know, my father's effort to keep us in check. You know, most of us from a very early age, I would say, you know, a couple of the leaders were a little older, but most of us from the time we were thirteen and fourteen, we wanted to do this. And we were reading and studying. And they really had to keep us in check, you know? And so yeah, SNCC guys taught us, they taught us how to recruit and stuff like that as well. So we would have these workshops and, and then we, you know, in the morning, and then we'd spend the afternoon going out, you know, engaging with people, mostly through networks of friends. And yeah, I mean, you, you, you learn to pick the kids who were popular, so to speak. And the language nowadays of networking and what you do to identify and pick the kids who were \n[unclear], you know. But all of that, we learned how to do it early age, you know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=1989.0,2065.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And did your father or your mother ever try to hold you back from that in terms of danger?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2065.0,2072.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: I'm sorry, you broke up.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2072.0,2072.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Oh yeah. I said did your father or your mother ever try to hold you back from being a part of them?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2072.0,2077.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, not my father, I mean. But my mother was nervous, especially with the girls, about how young we were. She was really nervous about that and she wouldn't let, she, she only let— she didn't want them involved in the demonstrations. They could do back-up work. And she was nervous about me, but it was way too late. I was already— she, she couldn't, neither one of them could control me. There was, there was— but my father, no, he didn't want to hold me back. I mean, he, he thought I was ready. They had, my mother and father had some disagreements about that, but it wasn't nothing she could do to stop me, you know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2077.0,2122.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And your own participation in demonstrations, where they, where they locally in in Prince Edward County, or did you also travel elsewhere?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2122.0,2130.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, I went a few days down to Danville and you know, I went throughout other parts of Virginia on voter registration campaigns, you know. So you had— in order to have demonstrations, you have to have sort of a town of some decent size, but a lot of the voter registration work, you know, you had to be able to go throughout the rural areas. I mean, people, people, you know, I would say, you know, up to the middle sixties, the majority of Blacks still lived in the South and they still lived in rural areas. And this is what made the SNCC kids so brave.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2130.0,2168.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: You know, the demonstrations you had to have a town of some size, so you, there would be a shopping area and so you could visibly you know, focus on the businesses and stuff. But voter registration, you had to go down these dry, you know, dirt roads and, you know, walk through the woods to people's houses and stuff like that. I did a lot of that. You know, that, that was more dangerous than, than a demonstration because demonstrations you at least had media there and you know, they had eyes. Even when they put dogs and stuff on you, it's kind of hard, you know, that's not a thing that you want to do and experience. But the real danger was going down, those country roads and, and mo— and being isolated, you know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2168.0,2219.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah, definitely. Okay.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2219.0,2219.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Even in the state of Virginia, you know, doing voter— the hazardous work was doing voter registration.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2219.0,2233.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. And so how, where does your life sort of go— I know it sounds silly to say where have you been since 1963, but clearly your activism doesn't stop that summer. What were you sort of participating in afterwards, in the middle of your life?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2233.0,2253.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well so in the, in the fall, so I— in the summer of '63, and I don't know why the man came. Somewhere in that period— no it'd be prior to that, prior to that. So there was a man who had an affiliation with Dartmouth College. No, he had graduated, he wasn't an employee. Let me be clear. When I say affiliation, he was alumni at Dartmouth. And he had come through and somehow he had become engaged with my father to fundraise for Prince Edward, to fund those centers where they brought in books and they hired multiple teachers and women.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2253.0,2297.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And, and he's said to my father, \"I know that you want to sacrifice your children as the leader. You want your children,\" he said, \"but it would be a real shame if this boy wasn't put in school, I mean, he's had the capability really do well.\" And he went about trying to get me into an elite eastern private, private school. And you know, my father said— it was the only time my father ever asked me not to do something. And he said that the optics of that just would be— he used that word, I had to go look it up. And the optics of that would just be really poor. You know, I'm here fighting for integrated education, asking the people to sacrifice and you going to be off. And so he wouldn't let me do that. But the American Friends Service Committee, the Quaker arm, the act— you know, social arm of the Quakers, they found families in the northeast. And, and so he said, \"Okay, you can do that. You can go live with a family.\" And I went to Newton, Mass \n[Massachusetts], and they had to figure out what in 62, '63. And, and, and then I returned and in the summer, you know, '63, you know, I would come back and we were already meeting and pushing on my father to have demonstrations. And after that, you know, I started seeing this man showing up, William Vanden Heuvel.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2297.0,2390.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: \n[Phone ringing] Hold on. I got this client.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2390.0,2399.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And I started seeing this man, Vanden Heuvel, who worked with Kennedy showing up. And I started getting to, you know, hearing about the possibility of some kind of school opening in the fall. And Robert Green, a psychologist from, a clinical psychologist from Michigan State was there, some other people. And, you know, I went with my father to D.C. a couple of times, and Dorothy Height and those kinds of people. So I knew something was in the making. And so when they opened the free school, Dr. Moss who was a white man from Longwood College who was one of the few whites who was very supportive. You know, my father said, \"I think Dickie's going to go to this school. Do you think that you might not want to go back to Newton and you stay here and go to school?\" And I said, \"Oh yeah,\" because, you know, we had developed all this action in the area.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2399.0,2461.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And so I stayed there in, in the free school, but I had already been successful as a student in Newton and I was reading and I realized I, I had an ambition, continuing to talk to this gentleman, to go to Dartmouth. And I realized I couldn't get to Dartmouth from Prince Edward County schools. It just wasn't going to happen. And so I went back to Newton after the public schools reopened. And I was gonna— I had the intention to go to Dartmouth because of the way this man had treated me. And I said, oh, that's an Ivy League school. And I went up there in the middle of the winter and I'm like, oh Lord, it's, it's too cold. Boston was bad enough. But you know, Hanover was, you know— and, and then one day— it's a long story. So I ended up going to Harvard and I was an activist in the sixties, you know, the Black Student Movement and Anti-War stuff. I got kind of far in there, maybe a little bit too much activism and quite, you know. But yeah. So the activism went from Southern-based to being deeply, deeply involved in the student movements of the sixties.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2461.0,2540.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: And at any point in your university career, did your father's name sort of travel into that? Did people look to you for guidance because of, of where you'd come from?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2540.0,2549.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, they weren't aware of where I came from. They just looked at me because of the leadership capability that I had developed then later on. But, but part of the thing was, I mean, you know, like— it's an interesting question. Part of the thing I wanted to do, I often had questions in my mind in Virginia whether people listened to me because I was my father's son, or whether they listened to me because I was me. And so, so it's, you know, I really admired and looked up to my father, but then you reach a stage in your life where you want to differentiate. And so part of what it is, I wanted to make it in, in the environment of the student movement on my own, just to see who I was independent of him and relative to him.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2549.0,2601.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: So, you know, I met one— so Dr. Chester Pierce, one of the first Black psychiatrists, if not the, and one of the certainly most preeminent and a man who was generally credited with giving us this whole microaggression thing. But interestingly enough, he gave us that theory, but there's nothing about his life that said he suffered from microaggressions. He was courageous. And he and I used to have lots of talks. He took me under his wing and, you know, and he introduced this concept to me and, you know, I was ti— and he would question me and, you know, he was a great mentor and friend. And so part of what I've come to realize is that I was trying to differentiate myself from my father. I always had these questions in Virginia, whether or not people were following me or whether that, whether I was an extension of him.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2601.0,2657.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: It was quite all right but it still was a lingering kind of question. I mean, I don't suffer any deep psychological damage. It's just a question, you know. So, where were we? Oh, so yeah, so they didn't really, this was something I needed to do on my own, although I did introduce him around. And him being the leader, when things kind of started to get out of hand, his national network of connections were helpful in, in bringing me back into some more balanced stance, especially vis-a-vis Harvard and that kind of thing cause some of us were on the verge of getting thrown out, you know. So it was really more that his network of friends, whom I respected, were able to kind of bring me back to some sanity and balance and realism.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2657.0,2716.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. I just— I'm keeping an eye on the time.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2716.0,2719.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: I am too, yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2719.0,2721.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: So this'll be my final question and I, and I it's, it's definitely going to be loaded. But in terms of the time that has passed since '59, through '63, through the work that you've done in your university, in your university activism to today, what to you is the same? What can us— still use changing? I w— I want to say like just a word of advice, but I think with what has happened in 2020 and, and movements that are still trying to, to, to keep in the public eye, especially being from New York, what, what can you necessarily offer?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2721.0,2765.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: So let me say one more thing. And one of the ironies of history, when the busing crisis broke out in Boston in 1976, I was also one of the, part of the federal receivership team in South Boston. So, you know, the group of us charged with running the school on the federal receivership and, and reducing the violence and trying to, you know, create an atmosphere for integration and the bringing together of the South Boston. So I come full circle from being shut out of schools to actually helping kids. I was an administrator helping kids to make that situation work. I thought that was sort of an irony of history. But yeah, you know, I agree. I subscribed to the Martin Luther King thing, whether it was actually his quote or he borrowed, it doesn't matter. He, he gave it life - \"The arc of the universe is long and it tends towards justice.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2765.0,2826.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: I think that, so that and the notion of towards a more perfect union. The notion that the Civil Rights Movement and ended— what the Civil Rights Movement did was dismantled legal segregation in the, in the, in the southern states. And may— paved the way for, we say desegregation or integration, it eliminated state sponsored and sanctioned racism and segrega— legal segregation. But so, it left a lot to be done. And I think that— you know. So I believe that the laws of physics apply to social movements. For every movement, there's an equal and opposite reaction, you know. And so the movement goes like the tide, you know, it, it rolls in and it rolls out. And so, you know, look, there are people who hold opposing views or different views about what America should be. And we engage in a dialectic. We engaged in— so we used to call it conversation, although nowadays a bit more than conversation.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2826.0,2906.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: I mean, we engaged in, in a little bit of a tussle. And you know, you know, you, you're trying to win the hearts and minds of America and trying to define what America should be. I don't, I still think this is a great experiment. You know, in, in historical terms, this is still a very young country and, you know, and people— you know, and it's still a country— you know. When you think about it, people, people think that the United States of America as we know it now has always been. That we think about it as fifty states. I mean, there are some who are old enough to remember when it was only forty-eight. So you think about it as fifty states, but what people don't realize is some of it, even if you take out Hawaii and Alaska, there were, many of the western territories that didn't become states until as late as 1920. 1918, 1919, something like that— '20. So basically, you know, in terms of the United States that we know, and forget all the technological developments, this country's one hundred years old. I mean, it's not even two hundred and something years old, it's a hundred years old in the form that we know it in. You know, that ain't even a teenage country in, in, in relative terms. I mean, you know, when you look at England or France or, you know, Germany, you know, or China. I mean, China has become a unified country. It, it was, you know— anyhow.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=2906.0,3012.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: So, we're still trying to decide who the hell we are. I mean, this is the thing that— I mean, so I tell people, you can't, you know, if you thought that, that, that this was settled with the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, and then with Obama, you crazy. It's one hundred years old. You know, we still, there's, you know— some of the people who, well, many of them have died off \n[unclear] my father's vantage, but there's still some people who're around and they are finally just dying off, who formed the backbone of the, you know, you know— I laugh when people talk about the Republican Party being racist because the Republican Party is racist now— if it is racist, it's racist now because they absorbed all the Dixiecrats who left the Democrat Party on account of Johnson passing the Voting Rights Act. So, you know, in, in the form that we in, the country is one hundred years old. What the heck do people expect? You know. And, and in terms of slavery ending, even though, you know, their fits and starts, they, you know, we had, we undid what happened in the period of Reconstruction, we undid the advances. But even if you look at the ending of the Civil War, you know, you're talking about 150 years. In, in terms of a country, you know, that's, that's still infancy.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3012.0,3113.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah. I appreciate that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3113.0,3113.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Well, at the very least adolescents, you know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3113.0,3117.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right, right. And I— that is something important to keep in mind. I, not that— I've never really thought of it that way. But yeah, I think that, that, that leaves more to think when people say, you know, we have, we have much more work to do and, and why do we have more work to do, I, I think it really comes from the point that you've made.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3117.0,3138.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: And you know, most of the countries, you know, they're based on ethnicity, on one people, you know. Whether or not the Founding Fathers really intended it, somehow, most people interpret the word \"All men,\" nowadays modified to say \"people,\" which they should, \"are created equal.\" That's a very noble experiment. And so the question that's being put before us now, and I don't think we've answered it in the affirmative, even though many people think so, is does America really want to be a multi-racial, multi-cultural democracy? I mean, that, you know, that experiment is certainly not more than, what would you say? Thirty-five, 135. That experiment is like 155 years old, really. That's, that's nothing for the magnitude of what we're trying to do to bring it, to say that one citizenship is not determined by race or ethnicity. That's a, that's a, that's a hugely noble experiment and it's still an experiment. And it requires— and one of the things that I think is wrong, we don't teach civics anymore.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3138.0,3224.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: One of the things that I think is very much missing is people— is what does it mean to be a citizen? And how does one bring about social change? You know, like people associated with a form. Like the Black community, I say this and I don't mind you putting it in the tape, has become addicted to marching, but the march is a, just an outer manifestation. They're the part that you can see. People don't see all the invisible. Like the amount of time that my father spent organizing and engaging with people. People don't see all of that. I mean, it was, you know, Martin Luther King, all the guys in SCLC, all the kids in SNCC, you know, Ella Baker, Septima Clark, you know, even Rosa Park, those people for large periods of their life, they worked every single day. Not just on civil rights, on transforming America. I mean, and they traversed the country. You know, King probably traveled a million miles. If my father in one year traveled over a hundred thousand miles just in the state of Virginia, you know, back and forth, back and forth. People don't do that kind of work. And it's going to take that kind of work.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3224.0,3302.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: You're not going to change America with marches. You know, you're going to change America by— if you look at the Women's Movement, they took a page from the civil— the modern part of it. And they started these consciousness raising groups. It didn't— you know and I say to people when I enrolled in Harvard, and then I got to run, when I enrolled in Harvard, it was Harvard and Radcliffe. And so there was three to one, there were three men for every woman. Now that Harvard and Radcliffe have merged, you just get a Harvard degree. And the class, and it's now fifty, fifty-one percent women. How the hell did that happen? There were no marches about it. There was no big \n[gestures]. It just it— but it happened through consciousness raising. It happened quietly and almost invisibly. So one has to ask themself the question, how do you affect and create the kind of change that would result in a multi-racial, multi-cultural democracy? If you agree that you want that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3302.0,3374.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Yeah.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3374.0,3374.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: Yeah. So, so those are the kind of— it needs another level of sophistication and consideration.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3374.0,3388.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3388.0,3390.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nLeslie F. Griffin, Jr.: But let me just say this, the work that the Queens College kids did was significant. Their presence was significant, significant, because it gave many students the opportunity to engage with white people in other than, than a relationship of domination. And so that was helpful. And then most of them had a kind of disposition such that it really opened up new possibilities and gave kids a new— and gave kids and adults a different experience relating to white people.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3390.0,3429.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200/transcript/26682/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\nVictoria Fernandez: Right. That's great. All right. I'm going to stop recording.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/42641/file/115200#t=3429.0,3436.0"}]}]}]}