{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/6h4cn70681/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["William Modeste Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn part 1, William Modeste discusses traveling to West Africa in the mid-1970s; growing up in Harlem in the 1940s-1950s; going to college at Shaw University (the first historically black university in the Southern United States) in Raleigh, NC; getting drafted into military service in the early 1960s; the rebellious political atmosphere of the 1960s in Harlem; working as a vocational counselor for Harlem Youth Unlimited (HARYU) in the mid-1960s; and his position as a counselor with the Queens College SEEK program starting in February 1968.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn part 2, Modeste describes the early years of the SEEK program, including a SEEK residence hall in upper Manhattan; the creation of the Radical Action Program at Queens College to help students with drug addiction; and the impact of CUNY’s Open Admissions policy in the 1970s.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn part 3, Modeste discusses the timeline of SEEK leadership in the late 1960s; the makeup of the SEEK Faculty Student Counselor Coalition; and the status of faculty affiliated with the program.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn part 4, Modeste describes several historical documents related to the history of the SEEK program, including a November 1968 program for the SEEK Theater; correspondence relating to the death of Lloyd T. Delany in 1969; and a 1995 letter regarding CUNY’s decision to make SEEK a program rather than a department. Modeste also discusses the shifting demographics of the SEEK program at Queens College starting in the 1980s, and struggles for funding in the 1990s.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College SEEK History Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1940s-2019 (temporal)","West Africa; Shaw University, Raleigh, NC; Harlem, Manhattan, NY; Queens College, Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2019-06-24 (created)","2019-07-15 (created)","2019-07-22 (created)","2019-07-29 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["William Modeste (Interviewee)","Obden Mondesir (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/40690"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn part 1, William Modeste discusses traveling to West Africa in the mid-1970s; growing up in Harlem in the 1940s-1950s; going to college at Shaw University (the first historically black university in the Southern United States) in Raleigh, NC; getting drafted into military service in the early 1960s; the rebellious political atmosphere of the 1960s in Harlem; working as a vocational counselor for Harlem Youth Unlimited (HARYU) in the mid-1960s; and his position as a counselor with the Queens College SEEK program starting in February 1968.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn part 2, Modeste describes the early years of the SEEK program, including a SEEK residence hall in upper Manhattan; the creation of the Radical Action Program at Queens College to help students with drug addiction; and the impact of CUNY\u0026rsquo;s Open Admissions policy in the 1970s.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn part 3, Modeste discusses the timeline of SEEK leadership in the late 1960s; the makeup of the SEEK Faculty Student Counselor Coalition; and the status of faculty affiliated with the program.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eIn part 4, Modeste describes several historical documents related to the history of the SEEK program, including a November 1968 program for the SEEK Theater; correspondence relating to the death of Lloyd T. Delany in 1969; and a 1995 letter regarding CUNY\u0026rsquo;s decision to make SEEK a program rather than a department. Modeste also discusses the shifting demographics of the SEEK program at Queens College starting in the 1980s, and struggles for funding in the 1990s.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/207/750/small/Modeste_William_photo_1__aviary.jpg?1694109748","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 4 - Modeste_William_by_Mondesir_Obden_06242019_PT1.mp3"]},"duration":6090.05213,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/207/750/small/Modeste_William_photo_1__aviary.jpg?1694109748","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/207/750/original/Modeste_William_by_Mondesir_Obden_06242019_PT1.mp3?1694109411","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":6090.05213,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript - June 24, 2019 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e From the guess, but it was, Dakar was a very interesting experience for us, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=0.0,10.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. And was that your first time in [Africa]?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=10.0,12.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I had been, I'd been to Ghana. And in '73 and '74. Traveling to the continent was kind of encouraged at that particular time. And airfare was so reasonable, you know, and accommodations were reasonable. We stayed at the University at Legon, which is in Ghana. And we traveled, we were there for 30 days with CORE - Congress of Racial Equality. And we just interacted. We went from Ghana all the way up North to - it was Upper Volta; now it's called Burkina Faso. Just interacting with people and meeting people who knew other people, who knew other people. It was a tremendous experience. We went to Togo. Right. Went from Ghana to Togo, to Dahomey. Couldn't get into Nigeria at the time, because the Naira had just became the currency.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=12.0,99.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e In 1977.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=99.0,101.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, this was, yeah. And this was like, when we went to Ghana. This was 74 or 73 or 74. And Nigeria was not very open to us getting in, didn't have visas, and they didn't want us to get a visa at the time. They thought you might be bringing drugs in, yada, yada, yada. And so didn't get to get to Nigeria, but I wanted to go to Nigeria, you know, my grandfather, from what I was informed was from Nigeria and was Igbo. So I really was anxious to get to Nigeria. Didn't make it. I have to; that's on my to-do list. Not a bucket list, but on my to-do list going forward. I long to get back to West Africa. I really enjoyed it. Especially where I could speak and understand the language. When I went to the French speaking West Africa, it was a little challenging for me, you know? It wasn't as interactive, you know, because of language barriers, had to find someone, and very few people spoke English. Everybody was speaking other languages except English. And you found someone who spoke English. It was like, oh, yeah, I need someone who speaks English. You know, that kind of thing. But that's my African story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=101.0,190.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, so you said it was through CORE, I guess, what inspired you to join CORE?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=190.0,195.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, didn't join. They were just sponsoring the trip. They were sponsoring the trip, but I would've, you know, but that was a time I had come out of college in [19]61, and I was involved in the student sit-ins in 1960, and was getting quite politicized in reference to social justice and [the] Black Arts Movement was coming and it's Nation time. Amiri Baraka, Leroi Jones. You know, the whole climate of repairing your community and doing for yourself and you know, self-determination. That was almost the flavor of the day, you know, Malcolm, Martin, street speakers. It was happening, you know? It was an atmosphere of rebellion and liberation, you know, that was happening. And like, \"what are you gonna do with your life? What are you gonna do with your life, you know?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=195.0,285.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e We're gonna try and right the wrongs in my community, you know? I think it's Adam Clayton Powell that said, \"What's in your hands?\" You know, start with where you are. That was the motivation and the drive at the time. Unfortunately hanging over your head was when you became 18, you had to worry about being drafted into the military. You know, if you went to college, you could get a deferment, you know, or college, I think what it was, school deferment. But as soon as I got out [of college], the draft board was like, knocking at your door, you know? I didn't see myself going to fight, in a foreign country or wherever, when I realized there was so much injustice right here. So those organizations, like you said, CORE, and the NAACP, the Urban League, all the organizations that were in place to liberate and to fight against the injustice and fight for social justice were things that the new wave of students or graduates were committed to. We weren't committed to working for corporate America or working for Boeing or being an Army officer. Some people were, but the conscious folks didn't seem to be that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=285.0,404.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess one of the things I've read and disagree with me, do you think part of this awakening, in your generation was because of what was experienced, like, what was witnessed with World War II?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=404.0,422.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Say that, say it again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=422.0,423.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, World War, like World War II comes and goes, and you do have this large atrocity that people come to discover. And do you think part of that is what led to a lot of the activism that occurs during your time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=423.0,441.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I think it was the tipping point. You know, like the soldiers came home from World War II \u003caffirmative\u003e and they couldn't get jobs. The whole prisoners of war were being transported from Germany to the South. \u003caffirmative\u003e. They were able to eat in restaurants where the American soldiers who were Black, who were taking them, could not even go into those restaurants. All the contradictions started to get exacerbated and amplified. I think that it wasn't just a trivial rhetoric. It was stuff that was being backed up by the happenings, the order of the day, you know? So people were like, whoa, \"which way do I go? Do I become participants in my own oppression, or do I resist?\" I think that was the climate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=441.0,514.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, 125th Street, they used to have, what's this guy's name? Carlos Cook. Member of the [UNIA - Universal Negro Improvement Association]. He was a Garveyite African Nationalist Pioneer Movement. They would be there telling you about your history and the oppression, the injustice in the country. It was like, wow. You know, it was so enlightening and informative. Recently, his brother, his name is Kwame Brathwaite, just published a book called, Black Is Beautiful. He's a photographer. And most of his pictures happened in the sixties, early sixties. He and his brother, they had a group called the Grandassa Models. These individuals, they glorified the African standard of beauty, you know, natural hair, African garb. They attracted a number of entertainers like Abby Lincoln, Max Roach. They would always put on an annual event called Naturally, whatever year it was, Naturally '67, Naturally '68.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=514.0,611.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It was a lot of these community things, conscious raising community things that were happening in the Black community at the time \u003caffirmative\u003e that sparked my interests of identity and getting involved, you know? And having a purpose. The Last Poets, they came out with their rhymes over music and they would say something about one of their big albums was Niggers Are Afraid of Revolution, you know? And went on with a whole poetic things. And one of their members is fellow Felipe Luciano. Yeah. Felipe. He is still on WBAI Radio. He was a student here when I got here. \u003caffirmative\u003e. That was like counterpart to the hip hop community at the time, you know, that was the community, you know, and the Young Lords, he was the president of the Young Lords, the Panthers were, you know, consciousness from the West Coast to East Coast was just starting like a quiet storm, just kind of like festering, you know? And then, what was happening internationally. African countries were getting their liberation in '64 Ghana, and this one and that one. The Sleeping Giant was waking up. And it was starting to have a global impact. A lot of the foreign countries got inspiration by what was happening here, you know, what's happening in the Harlems and the Bed-Stuys and Watts in California and in the Black communities in the U.S.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=611.0,755.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So let's start with Harlem as that was your birthplace.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=755.0,760.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=760.0,762.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So, today's date is June 24th, 2019. My name is Obden Mondesir. I'm collecting this oral history for Queens College Special Collections and Archives and this is a project on the history of SEEK, and I am with:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=762.0,783.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e William Modeste.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=783.0,785.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e The first question I'm going to ask; well, before I ask the year you were born, I'm going to ask, are you okay if once this interview's completed, if we'll be able to put parts of it online?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=785.0,799.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. I'm perfectly okay with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=799.0,802.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. Now I'm going to ask you, could you tell me the year you were born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=802.0,808.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I was born July 10th, 1938, and I'm looking forward with great anticipation to my 81st birthday next month. Born in Harlem. I thought I was born in Harlem Hospital, but I saw a document that apparently I was born at home, 130 some street, but I've always claimed that I was born in Harlem Hospital because my earliest memories are of growing up in Harlem on 134 Street between Lenox and Fifth Avenues. I went to elementary school, which was Public School 89, located on Lenox Avenue between 134th and 135th Street, a block away from where the Schomburg Center is. I remember as a little kid going to the Schomburg Library, where the librarian would read stories to us. Interestingly, my old neighborhood was torn down for Urban Renewal to build the Lenox Terrace, which is like a middle class housing development in that area.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=808.0,905.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e My elementary school was torn down to build the Adam Clayton Powell Houses, which is an apartment building that exists today. So all my footprints have been kind of eroded in a sense. You know, I feel a little sad about that at times. From elementary school I went to a junior high school that was out of my district. I was supposed to go to Frederick Douglass Junior High School, which is 141st Street; it's a senior Citizen Center now, 141st, 142nd Street in Lenox. That was the feeder junior high school from my elementary school. But my sister and brother; I had an older sister and brother. My brother was 13 years older than me and my sister, she must have been around 12 years older than me. They wanted me to go to a different junior high school. They selected the junior high school. It was Junior High School 43, Manhattanville Junior High School. It still exists. 129th Street on Amsterdam Avenue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=905.0,1005.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I had to do some creative address arrangement. I had to indicate that I lived in a place where my music teacher—I took piano lessons. Yeah. My older brother was a fantastic pianist. His music teacher is still alive. My mom wanted me to take piano lessons. I was not that interested in piano, but the music teacher lived on 129th Street, and I was taking music lessons from maybe the fifth and sixth grade in elementary school. So when I wanted to go to junior high school, my family arranged for me to use my music teacher's address, which was 129th Street, to be eligible to go to the junior high school. And it was a great experience in that junior high school. Very, very different, but very ethnically diverse. One of my best little buddies was an Italian fella, Korean, German.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1005.0,1093.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It was multiracial, multiethnic environment. I felt a little out of sorts because I didn't live over there, and I felt that someone's gonna find out and I'll be in trouble, you know? But the experience was really, really great. I later found out that Harry Belafonte went to that school. I had a dynamic French teacher. He was a brother of African descent named George Manley and it was a great experience. The drawback was friends from my neighborhood went to Frederick Douglas, and I was the only one from the neighborhood who went to Junior High School 43. That was a big disconnect. I'd come home, we didn't have mutual things to share. So we decided that when we got a chance to go to high school, we would select a high school that I would go to and they could go to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1093.0,1174.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So we kind of like reconnected for the high school experience, went to the High School of Commerce, which was located where Lincoln Center is, 65th Street, Amsterdam, which got torn down to build Lincoln Center. So like all the footprints of my \u003claugh\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1174.0,1196.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Adolescence","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1196.0,1199.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e -adolescence seem to be only temporary, you know. But it was an interesting experience at High School of Commerce. As a commuter you take the train there and from there, you'd come home. I wasn't interested in going to the prom or interacting with that particular high school population at all. I was very interested in sports at the time, and baseball, and then basketball. And as I began to finish up high school, friends of mine went away to college in the South, in Raleigh, North Carolina, Shaw University. I had a chance to see them in the summer and share with them what this experience was like in the South. Now, mind you, I understood that in the south segregation was legal, and there were problems. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand how the government would let injustices like this continue: lynching people, and making you go to this place and not allowing you to go to that place, you know, talking about the discrimination in public accommodations. I didn't understand that, you know? But I used to sell the Amsterdam News and the Jet Magazine, and that used to give you a lot of information of what's happening in the city, in the country, in the world, but definitely in the city [South].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1199.0,1311.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you mean, you would sell them door to door?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1311.0,1314.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was a newsboy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1314.0,1316.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1316.0,1317.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e You would go and pick up the newspaper and Jet magazines. I would sell them basically at the train station, \"Amsterdam News here, Amsterdam,\" and I had a few clients. One of the fifth grade school teachers, she would always say, I need a paper, and I would take it to her apartment. And she lived in the Riverton Houses, which was a middle class housing development. It's still there now too, off Fifth Avenue, between Fifth and Madison Avenue, 135th maybe, 138th Street. So I had a regular customer, but the other ones, I would try to sell to passerby. That kind of thing, you know, the real newsboys that you see back in the day, particularly at the train station. If people would come out, you know, you'd have your paper, just sell it. I say all that to say that I got a lot of information, especially from Jet Magazine. You would see what was happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1317.0,1390.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember very vividly, the killing of Emmett Till. I think in '54, the picture was on the cover of Jet Magazine, and the brutality that he experienced for a quote, whistling at a young white girl, supposedly. And then that evening, people came and dragged him out his house and brutally killed him. I might have been a few years younger than he was, and it was like, wow. It was just an overwhelming injustice. Like, how could people do this? How could I prepare myself to not let these things happen to people that I know or me, my family members in my community, you know? \u003caffirmative\u003e. So I'm getting back to my friends who went away to college, and I asked them, what was it like in the South? They said it was so horrible, horrible, horrible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1390.0,1461.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Obden, the worse the stories that they shared with me, the more intriguing they became, you know, \u003claugh\u003e \u003claugh\u003e. And it was strange, you know, \"the food is bad.\" But it was just kind of intriguing, you know? So I asked them, \"do you think I'm good enough to try out for the team? \"Yeah, yeah.\" They encouraged me. So myself and two other fellas, we went down in August, tried out for the team, the basketball team, and I was, you know, a short guy. I was about five [feet] eight [inches], maybe five seven and a half, you know. But I thought that I had some skills, and so went down, tried out for the team. Shaw University was a Baptist school. I didn't immediately- I got there before classes started, and I didn't immediately feel the discrimination and the segregation and the racism. I didn't really feel it, you know? I was just with my own group, and people told me, just stay on campus. Just stay on campus. Don't go wandering around. But I thought I was gonna be in the South where I see farms and cows and chickens. Raleigh is the capital of North Carolina, and everything was paved, and I was a little disappointed. I was like, you know, where is the tobacco road that I was looking for? You know, it wasn't there. But it was an interesting adjustment. When we tried to go to the theater that was on Fayetteville Street in the middle of the town, and you would go to the box office, and I couldn't understand what the lady was saying that \"you're over there\" and pointing upstairs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1461.0,1591.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, it's like, what is she saying? She was saying that Negroes were not admitted there. You have to go to the colored entrance. I didn't take very kindly to that particular direction. So I didn't go to the theater down there at all. But it was an interesting experience. It was an interesting experience. I had in the university itself, I had a couple of white teachers. It was a history teacher, an English teacher, and on campus, you know, and that wasn't new to me. It was almost my expectation from being educated in the North. But it kind of contradicted what I was told to expect. I thought it was going to be this real definite line of demarcations: Black people up here, white people over there, you know? And I didn't see that on campus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1591.0,1662.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e But when I went off campus, passed the post office, I saw engraved in the postal area: colored people, white people. And I was like, whoa. And the water fountains, it was like, whoa. This is serious down here, you know? As I tried to get more familiar with the terrain by talking to my North Carolina friends, \"what's going on, and this, that, and the other?\" it was a kind of enlightening that they accepted that lifestyle. It was okay and doesn't bother. It was okay, you know? And I was a little confused about that, but that was getting acclimated to a new culture, a new way of living and doing things. Having a degree of rebelliousness, I wasn't inclined to follow the segregated rules. My colleagues were telling me that, listen, Bill, you can go home, but we have to live down here. So I was sensitized to their situation from a different perspective at times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1662.0,1764.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you give me any examples of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1764.0,1770.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, when we would go to, let's say, a restaurant, it would be one restaurant with the counter divided in half. The kitchen would be behind the counter. It'd be making food for everybody. But for Black people, you had to get on one side of the counter. \u003caffirmative\u003e White people went on the other side. Often their line went fast, and your line went slow. When I said, \"I'm not waiting on this, I'm going over there,\" people, my friends would say, no, no, no. Often sometimes was able to get through, like, there's nobody here. Why wait, \"there's nobody here, serve me.\" You know? Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e That kind of thing, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1770.0,1830.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e That also happened when we bought our bus tickets to go back to New York, Trailway or Greyhound. You would have to go one line for Black people one for white people buying the same bus ticket, you know? But you would have to get in your place, so to speak. Often I wasn't complying with that. \u003caffirmative\u003e. Some of my colleagues from the South were also, yeah, this stuff is not right. We shouldn't be doing such and such, and they had a rebellious spirit, because I think we were like students now, and students usually sort of like push the lever, so to speak. We're not ready to say, well been down so long, the down doesn't bother me. You know, usually students, it's kind of like exploratory, energetic, change makers, that kind of thing. So those were like two experiences that happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1830.0,1904.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e One of my colleagues, he was working in one of the Woolworth stores, making signs. He was an artist, and he was also selling behind the counter in Woolworths, you know? They didn't mind selling to either group [Black or white] as long as you had money, but there was something about servicing and sitting at the counter, and you wouldn't get served. No, you can't serve. We won't serve you here. You know? So that became an issue. And I had some very rebellious young colleagues who were from Connecticut and other places, and they were ready to sort of like, let's correct some of the wrongs in the South. You know, we're the next generation and we're gonna correct some of the wrongs in the South, so we're gonna do this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1904.0,1965.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e We might even try to integrate the Baptist church that's right next to our dormitory one day. We going to all go there. You know, those kinds of things. So there was, that quiet aggression, and sometimes not so quiet aggression, but, effective pushback to the laws and the rulings that regulated where you're supposed to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=1965.0,2000.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What did your parents think about you going to school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2000.0,2007.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, my Mom. So my Mom and Dad. In fact, I left the part out when I went and tried out [for basketball], they like my skills, and they offered me a scholarship. Shortly after that, I remember the gentleman's name, Dr. Key, said, \"Bill, can your parents afford to send you to school for the first semester?\" I said, \"I don't know.\" He said, \"It seems as if there was some budgetary problems, and what we offered you, we can't do that right now, but if you could manage, your parents can manage the first semester, we'll make sure that we'll be able to grant you a scholarship the second semester.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2007.0,2062.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So I'd already told my Mom, \"I got it [the scholarship].\" She was rejoicing, and then I had to call her back. She said, \"Will you stay? I'll send the money.\" So that kind of sealed the deal for me right there, you know, she was very happy about it. She was very happy, very, very happy about it. My sister, she had gone to nursing school, and before I finished high school, I went to her graduation on Ward's Island. And she became a nurse. I guess my Dad, he was an old fashioned dad, you know, he just provides for his kids and family. He was talking one time suggesting that I could go and join the Army. I was like, ah, Dad, no, I'm not ready. No, I'm not interested in the Army. I had an older brother who joined the service.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2062.0,2138.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e My thinking was not towards joining the service, not at all. Not volunteering. I did not see that as a future or career that I wanted to pursue. Not at all. And my brother was... I had a brother on my mother's side, a brother on my father's side. The brother on my mother's side was always anti-army, anti, you know, joining service or becoming a soldier and going over to kill other people. I kind of heard that same kind of message from the street speakers. The Garveyites and Malcolm and Carlos Cook from the African Nationalist Pioneer Movement, talking about, you know, not being an arm of the, what do they call it? The military industrial complex.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2138.0,2233.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e That was the phrase, yeah. A part of the military industrial complex. Subsequent to that, I used to see how they used to have commercials that you could be Black and Navy too, you know, and, see the world and all these kind of, slogans and sayings that seduced you into becoming a soldier. I was not so inclined. Not so inclined. But I did get drafted. I got drafted after I got outta school, got outta school in '61, and got drafted in '61, and got a deferment that they came back and got me in June '62. And it was a dual experience. Only one of my crew who got drafted. And how they draft you; 39 Whitehall Street, they would send you one token. That means you come down, but that's not one to come back. If it's, you're gonna come back, need a token to go down, take the subway down, and you have to come back. Whitehall Street is down by City Hall or beyond City Hall. Not to be eligible for the Army, you had to be 4a, and I didn't want to be physically ineligible. I wanted to be 1A, which was fit, but being fit meant that you would go. So it was a dual consciousness that I had. I wanted to be, I wanted them to find me 1A that had consequences that you're going to go. Beause friends of mine limped down, or they had all kind of things that they would do, put a penny under your tongue, and then your temperature would be all up, all kind of folk tales to avoid the draft.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2233.0,2376.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I was the only one who got drafted , went right to Fort Dix [New Jersey] for the basic training. And Fort Dix, they sent me to Fort Sam, Houston, Texas, which was the Army Medical Training. They call it a military occupation, military occupational specialty. Your MOS. That's what the school that you're gonna go to, to deliver the type of career that you are going to give to the military. So I went down to become a medic at Fort Sam Houston, and it was from 16 weeks of training there. We learned how to take temperatures and give shots and medications and handle wounds and everything. Then I found out the life expectancy of a medic was something like 26 seconds in combat, because the enemy plucks off the medics, because they're the ones who are reviving the wounded, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2376.0,2462.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e And I would say, oh my God. I'm in an occupation that has a 26 second life expectancy. Oh my goodness. Oh, I hope I don't go off to go to combat or anything like that. Well, I got stationed in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, in the dispensary in Pittsburgh. I didn't have to go overseas. And that was a godsend, you know, as far as I was concerned, because, Vietnam was happening then, but was police action. I understood that we were in Vietnam, but we couldn't, we'd been fired upon, but we were not supposed to fire back. You know, I did meet a medic who came back from Vietnam, and he shared with me this, and he was in Vietnam. I said, Vietnam, where's that? He explained it to me. Cause I said, wow. He said, yeah, you know, it's a police action. We're being fired upon, but you can't fire back. So I said, oh my goodness, I'm glad I didn't have to do that. If I can just do it two years, it's 24 months of active duty, two years. And then I think it is inactive duty that you have to do. But I was able to get in and out without any military [combat] service, you know? It was interesting because even the basic training, they used to, we used to have a bayonet drill. \"What's the spirit of the bayonet?\" It was to kill. To kill. And I was like, oh, gosh. I'm getting brainwashing. And that was why they had two draft categories, people who were U.S., people who were drafted, and people who were young people who just volunteered for the army. So you had a lot of 17 and 18 year olds, you know, that were gung ho.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2462.0,2571.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e A lot of the people who were draftees were 22, 21, and a little bit more matured in their future. When we had to go through these particular basic training drills, I could see how the conditioning was basically to strip you down from nothing and then mold you into the design that the army wants you to be. They used to have a saying, \"Yours is not to reason why, yours is just to do or die.\" You know, the soldier is not to reason why, just to do or die. You are supposed to be military personnel, belong to the army. So it was strange - I left one segregated situation in a sense, and went into another segregated situation. You knew if you went on leave, you didn't get back in time, you would be considered AWOL and Article 15, you could go to the brig. You know, like, oh my goodness. Ah, even when they paid us, it was like, I feel like I'm in prison. What are you talking about? Pay me. You know? It was a strange existence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2571.0,2660.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e This was in, not Pittsburgh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2660.0,2663.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e This was in, this was in Fort Dix [New Jersey]. This was in basic training.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2663.0,2666.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. Yeah. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2666.0,2668.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e When I got to Pittsburgh and had a job, I worked in the dispensary. We had sick call, a civilian doctor. I would help the civilian doctor out, it was like a job, nine to five. But, when you were off, I was off, you know, I couldn't leave the base. I couldn't leave the base, but had to be back for a roll call the next morning. You know, it was like a job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2668.0,2693.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e That was a job. But the basic training is when I was talking about, had these strict, but even the non-basic training had strict regulations, but at least you had certain number of leave days that you could take, those kinds of things. You could travel, but you had to be back, you know. One of the benefits of being stationed in Ohio: I had buddies from the neighborhood who went to Central State University, which was near Columbus, Ohio. When they would have their big week, May weekend, like a homecoming, I would go down and visit them. You know? So I was able to sort of make a positive situation out of a negative circumstance at times. I saw some of my homeboys. Just off the record, I noticed this in Queens now, I was shocked. We have ROTC here now, and we fought as a union against ROTC coming into CUNY. But I guess that was a losing battle because if you can become a part of the Army at CUNY now, at one time, that was not the case, you know? So I guess when they stopped the draft, they had to find other avenues to try and recruit individuals to get into service. So this became one of the sources.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2693.0,2797.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So you described that you went from one segregated situation to another. Could you describe how Fort Dix was segregated?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2797.0,2805.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Not segregated in reference to color. Segregated in reference to control, it had control over my life that I didn't have individual control over my life. I couldn't leave, you know, the fact that by law, I was drafted, had to be there, you weren't there, there are consequences. You could go to military jail, you know? I didn't want to be there, you know, but it was like your citizen obligation, I guess. I mean, I'm trying to \u003claugh\u003e, I'm trying to see the other side of the argument, but it wasn't segregated in reference to race or ethnicity like that. Every day, Obden, bus loads of people were coming in, I said, \"are they going to ever run out of folks?\" Every day? New group coming in every day, every day. I was like, damn, it's just raining people, you know, like every day. But it wasn't segregated in reference to racial or race. No, no. Everybody was in it together. I remember my first sergeant, he was the drill sergeant. He was a brother and tough guys, you know, and white guys and tough guys, and \u003claugh\u003e. We were all there together catching hell together at that point, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2805.0,2919.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e The military didn't present—but, you know, the dog whistle segregationists exist, and I can see it in the military. I got transferred to Pittsburgh. And on sick calls, when I first got there, the military handled a lot of dependence, like children, wives, and family members of the soldiers. Every time we had sick call, my first sergeants wanted me to take water samples. That means I would go to the city and collect water and then report it back to find out if the water was polluted. I didn't understand why he didn't want me to deal with the patients. One day he was shorthanded. His two assistants didn't come in, and we had sick call people, lined up female civilians and lined up. And I said, Sarge, should I go? Should I go get water samples? No, no, no. I need you here. I need you here today. And I was wondering why the change in procedure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=2919.0,3022.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e See, previously, it just seemed as if he didn't feel comfortable with me dealing with dependants of white soldiers and would always assign me to go someplace else. And that made me think of a situation that happened in Cleveland where we would get - soldiers would get - a day off if they gave blood. I got a phone call from a parent of a patient saying \"Are there any soldiers who would be willing to give blood today?\" I answered the phone. \"Any soldiers would be willing to give blood today? I greatly appreciate it. My son is having surgery, and could you make sure that none of the soldiers who volunteered to give blood are Jewish or Black?\" So I gave the phone to my first sergeant. I said, \"Sarge, someone wants to speak to you.\" But, again, it was ever present, you know, the racism that exists, you know? And I said, wow, here's a person trying to save someone's life, and you are differentiating who the person to assist you in the saving of the life should be. Not of Jewish descent or not Black. Don't want blood from those people. And I said, oh. So those were a couple of the incidences that I ran into in the service, you know? I guess, the service does not sanitize those particular negative circumstances that exist in society.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3022.0,3163.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So what happens after your service?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3163.0,3169.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e After the service? Yeah. Well, after the service, I come out. Bang. I got to find a job. So I take all kinds of civil service tests. Boom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3169.0,3177.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What year is it, you think?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3177.0,3182.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e '62 to '64. '64, right. Okay. '64. Right. And this is just when civil rights is starting to percolate. Now things are starting in the community starting to come together, you know, bang bang. I think it was, Johnson's War on Poverty, poverty program starting to, yeah, War on Poverty, trying to reverse poverty in our lifetime, and this and that and the other. They had a big program, one of the largest called HARYU - Harlem Youth Unlimited. They were headquartered at the Hotel Teresa. That's where Fidel Castro stayed when he came to New York at that time. He didn't want to stay downtown; he stayed at the Hotel Teresa. It was a means of resurrecting the Harlem community. Yeah. And eradicating poverty, you know, dropouts and everything. They had the Neighborhood Youth Corps jobs for youngsters working in city agencies. I understood that they were looking for vocational counselors, and they were connected with the Urban League. Because I applied for a job, working with the Urban League Youth Employment Center, which was connected with HARYU. I applied for a teaching position, I was taking these tests. I had the teaching position working as a teacher REC and a substitute teacher. But this vocational counseling position would hire you, was one that I jumped on right away in, '64.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3182.0,3321.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3321.0,3324.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It kind of like, reflected me being a change maker in the community. It seemed as if I can make a difference, you know? College grad, helping dropouts. I have gotten a lot of exposure to good coaches, and people who suggested, \"Hey, go to college and through athletics, go to college. You know, use athletics as a mean to get education.\" So that kind of like - you asked why- it's almost like it kind of replicated the experiences that were offered to me, you know? This guy, Holcomb Rucker, he was a coach and became a teacher and used education through sports, and it just seemed as if that was something that I could do, you know? I could pass that on. I felt like, \"You know this. Hey.\" So when you said \"why?\" you know, it kind made me kind of reflect on, yeah. That was like the ideal job. I was working on 116th Street. Right in the community, you know? I didn't have to go outta my neighborhood to 34th Street, or where once, when I was a kid, we worked in the garment center, you know, as a high schooler, you know, lied about our age, so we didn't have to get working papers. That was outside the community. But this was right in the community. It was ideal. Was ideal, you know? And so that became like a very worthwhile position for me, you know? I enjoyed that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3324.0,3459.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. And what was it like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3459.0,3464.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It was working with very bright kids who were trying to get their lives together. Some dropouts from high school, some were high school graduates. In fact, in working there, I found out about the SEEK program because we were sending some students who were high school graduates to a program that was started at City College called the Pre-Baccalaureate Program, which was the forerunner to the SEEK program. And one person, a job developer on my staff, they were going to the different sites, City College, where they were sending our clients, high school graduates to City College, and talking to them about, what are your needs for personnel? Said, you know, we have counselors, we have teachers, we have this, that, and the other. So this person, job developer, suggested that I apply for a counseling job in the SEEK program at Queens College. I said, Queens, I gotta take the Triborough. I gotta drive over there. I had a little Volkswagen, said, tolls.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3464.0,3569.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Anti-poverty programs again. When we [QC SEEK] would do good work, we'd find out that it would be defunded. When our statistics were real impressive and looking good, the program didn't exist anymore. You know? So it, it seems as if it had like unintended consequences. Seems as if, was it really designed to change things? Or that was just a front. When we were becoming very successful, we find out that there'll be no funds for the program. I see that being a pattern. At one time, the Mayor - Pataki - took the SEEK program out of the state budget in a state legislative program in '95. Took it out of the budget. We had to go to Albany to see legislators and councilmen to try and get it back in the budget.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3569.0,3644.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So it just seems as if, I don't know if administration really, are they really serious about writing wrongs or just a matter of verbal exercises, you know? And it seems that's been the pattern of so many things that happen in the community that have been funded successfully. And then all of a sudden the funds disappear. You know, I think one of the brothers, Rap Brown said, it's like a tug of war. Like a tug of war, and you are pulling, and I'm pulling. And the people in control, the only time they let one hand up is to get a better grip, you know, \u003claugh\u003e. So you think that, okay, they gonna stop, pull, it's, they relax to get a better grip. So it just seems as if that became like the order of the day, you know. Like you push, push, push and force people in power to do something, but it's not a willful decision to do. It's based on the pushback and when the pushback goes away, back to business as usual.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3644.0,3733.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Ok so you're nominated to work. So do you do an interview to get into SEEK as a counselor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3733.0,3743.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. The gentleman, Burt Backner, City College, he comes here from City [College] to Queens, at the same time I'm coming here. Great guy. He seems to like what I have experienced. I've been working with dropouts and people who might have tremendous ability, but no skills. Now you ask me to work with college trained individuals or people who are on the track to go to college, motivated to go to college. This is a slam dunk. I mean, it's like asking me to clean the room with a short broom, and now you've giving me a vacuum cleaner.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3743.0,3797.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e He wanted me to set up a jobs program for summer jobs, for these youngsters. Students got jobs, guys got jobs from Pan Am, United. One guy, he did so well the fellow bought a Porsche and didn't wanna go back to school. I said, \"hold up man,\" \u003claugh\u003e, you know, it was a time where, industrial America was feeling, oh yeah, we need to do something. They were kind of amenable to college students doing this, that and the other; had people working for Chase, all over, you know...they were customer service reps, like I said, at Pan Am and United, people working at Chase, manufactured Hanover, all over in the corporations, they would get jobs going, all the students that summer got jobs very, very easily. And it was like, wow. I prepared them for an interview, tell 'em how to dress, what to say, call and arrange an appointment for them. It was really, really good. It was like, wow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3797.0,3876.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I felt that I wasn't being even challenged. That was the first summer here, the summer of '68. And then I had some other assignments of finding housing for students and finding transfer to students. At that point, Dr. Backner hadn't given me a caseload to work with students academically right here. And I had a long discussion with him about my displeasure with not being intricately involved in the whole counseling services. He said, well, I'll tell you what I'm going do. He gave me a caseload of 25 students, of which Paula LaLande [later a SEEK Administrator] was one of those students, that was in '68. And then the rest became, I guess I was ordained or anointed into the counseling ranks of all the other folk, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But at that time, we had, it seems as if the early days of the program, a lot of the counselors came from psychology background and the thinking, the model was that you're dealing with these kids who are not successful academically because they have, some psychological reasons or, setbacks and they can't do things psychologically, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3876.0,3978.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I guess I want to take a, a little step back. So, you talk about, you get hired to be a counselor at SEEK. Could you describe - I guess I'm gonna ask two questions, but I'm not supposed to. One, describe what do you remember about CUNY at the time, especially being a New Yorker and hearing about the CUNY system? And then secondly, what did you remember about Queens College?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=3978.0,4010.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. I remembered a lot about CUNY, specifically City College. Because my junior high school was up in that area on the hill. From where I lived, in fact, when I went to junior high school, friends of mine told me I lived in the Valley. I never looked at it like that because where I lived was in Fifth Avenue in Harlem. That was the valley. It was the Hill, St. Nicholas Terrace. And then Amsterdam Avenue is on the other side of that, you know, but on the hill, City College is right up there also. So I remember seeing City College quite a bit, and just saw it as a very, it looks like a real Ivy League school, you know, very pretty black and you know, the colorful gothic looking buildings, you know, cathedral looking.I didn't know anything about CUNY as much as [I did about] that entrance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4010.0,4082.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Knew some people who went to night school there. Yeah. Knew people who went to night school there. I did know one guy. Oh, right. From [Junior High School] 43. He said he went to City College. Yes, I did know him. And heard reputation wise, reputation wise, heard of City College, they had a championship basketball team in the fifties. The only school [college] that won the NCAA and the NIT tournaments, and the only schools that would ever do that, because those tournaments are played at the same time now. But they won them both, you know, and they had some heroes in the community. This guy Floyd Lane, Ed Warner, these were older guys in the community that went to City College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4082.0,4145.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, on the downside of that, Obden, there was a big scandal in the fifties. They accused certain players of point shaving and a big scandal hit the press and this, that, and the other. So again, they give it and they take it away. You know, like Lauren Hill says, \"first they hail you, then they nail you,\" you know? So, it seems as if there's always that pendulum swinging this way and that way, you know, in this land of ours. I knew that about City College. I knew that in high school, if you didn't have an academic diploma, that you are not college material, you couldn't go to college. That's what I was told. But then my friends who went South to college kind of like disproved that particular myth and axiom, and it was like, wow, nobody never told me that there were other options, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4145.0,4222.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So again, I'm dealing with a lot of contradictions all the time, especially coming from the ruling or the accepted class, the information class, you know, made me quite suspicious of information that I was getting... almost like all this like fake news now, you know? I didn't know that much about City having access, but I did know when I started at the SEEK program that, the beef was that, people, public institutions, taxpayers' money, the kids could not go to these particular schools that are public schools cause they're not being prepared, but the tax, their parents' monies are financing the schools, but they can't get access to them. Something is wrong with that picture. And the legislative, not the legislators. It's like [Charles] Rangel, David Dinkins and the other one, I can't remember his name, but the three of them were very, very instrumental [in creating SEEK]. Shirley Chisholm also in crafting a program that would get inner city people an opportunity to go to school. To the colleges, you know? When it [the SEEK program] was crafted, it said basically you had to come from a quote, \"designated poverty, federally listed poverty area,\" like South Jamaica, Harlem, Lower East Side, Bed-Stuy. You had to live in those areas. One of the criteria for being accepted. And you had to have a financial, certain—you had the income, the words were, educationally disadvantaged and financially disadvantaged, and come from a designated poverty area and be a certain age, you know, to be eligible for the educational opportunity programs that were legislated by the group. Dinkins, Charlie Rengal and, I'm blocking the other guy's name, but it'll probably come to me sooner or later [Percy Sutton and Basil Patterson]. So, those were the parameters, which gave the program its existence and it being deserving like an opportunity, educational opportunity for the people who've been locked out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4222.0,4423.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Because the school system did not really prepare them adequately. So you are kind of like, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy where people will not be able to ever get in and you'll never be able to change the system. So it'll be just sprinklings, you know, it will not be a flood of folks coming in. Yeah. Because what I knew about Queens after getting here, after the SEEK, prior to the SEEK program, the percentage of students of African descent was a fraction of 1% - fraction of 1%. Not even 1%, a fraction of 1%. I don't know if they had any Puerto Rican students here, but the program was, its mission was to get people of African descent and Puerto Ricans into the City University, and to give them an educational opportunity, second chance, a matter of getting them in and getting them the supportive services to be successful, to get out. Interestingly enough, and I'm gonna bring this back to you, the three first SEEK graduates, a woman by the name of Nelly McKay, she's deceased now. When I got here, they were talking about Nelly McKay, she was so bright. She graduated from Queens and got accepted to Harvard. I noticed, Obden, that in the video that talks about successful graduates, she is featured in one of those things on the website. I said, look at here, but no mention that she was in the SEEK program. And another woman, she's a PhD and she's down at a museum in DC. I have to get you her name. Leslie Hammond King, or Leslie King Hammond. And I was trying to get her up on out. Next time I'll have that information for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4423.0,4554.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e But those were two of the first graduates. There was a second gentleman, and I forgot his name, I had it written down in the office somewhere. So I say all that to say that even though supposedly the profile of the potential SEEK student was supposed to be this unprepared individual, the early members were people who excelled. They had the wherewithal, but they might not have had the skills. But to get in and get the skills was something that was not being afforded. They didn't have the opportunity to get access before. And now with the access, I think started when, I think it was 145 students. I think the first class in 1966, I'm going to check my facts on that, but it started small. And like I said, prior to that, the Pre-Baccalaureate program at City predated the '66 programs that started at Brooklyn, Queens and City. Those are the three colleges that really started [with SEEK]. Then later on, Hunter came in, and then all of them had a senior program there. But it was City, Brooklyn, Queens. Those were the three-legged stool.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4554.0,4662.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And so you're at SEEK in Queens College, and you're working with these students and doing counseling. I guess could you describe, what do you remember of the initial staff that was there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4662.0,4679.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e The initial staff was this brother I told you about, Waldo Jeff, Hubert Vincent, Doctor Beverly Elkin. So very, very... the initial staff were almost like a very dedicated, interracial, energetic staff. Almost like a Peace Corps thing. It was like, we are here for a mission of remedy. And we were up against the establishment. The college, [imitating the voice of an administrator] \"No, you gotta do this. Math department is over here.\" And we're kind of isolated beause we were all on 61st road, which is nothing but parking, Reeves Avenue, nothing but parking lots there now. We were all in private houses over there. You know, we weren't on the college proper. Our headquarters was on campus in a building that was called Temporary Building number three. It's now the Honors Office. But we were in building temporary three for maybe 20 some odd years, you know, before we got into permanent building. So you had a flavor of Yes and No. The same thing I was telling you about before. Yes. You are included, but your place is over there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4679.0,4816.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e The Queens College experience, when you would go into the cafeteria and people were playing the guitar, you just felt like you were in a different world in a sense. You know? Black students who were there all were grouped in the little corner, you know, by themselves. You felt the tension and segregation, you know? It was strange. It wasn't the ideal place that I wanted to be in, but I was here and being in the SEEK program where I had Black and Puerto Rican, I had an Asian student, and there was one Indian student in the program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4816.0,4863.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I thought I was gonna bring, did I bring it? I wanted to share with you what, in '68, I have it, what the statistics, ethnic statistics were like in '68. I think it was 79% Black students,14% white students, this is in the SEEK program that is. I forget- I was trying to remember to bring it over to you, and I ran out of the office without it. Next time I have to share that with you, and you take a look at it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4863.0,4917.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess, describe the atmosphere leading up to Lloyd Delany [named Interim Director in spring 1969].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4917.0,4925.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. That was tough, man. Oh, yeah. You know, like in '69, the Student Faculty Coalition got together and the students for the most part pushed and said, \"We want more teachers that looked like us. We want a curriculum that reflects our experience.\" Started putting all these demands on the college, you know, and wanted SEEK, and the SEEK program itself, because the students in the program were opposed to the program just going along with business as usual. They wanted it to be relevant to their experience, you know? So they started pushing for demands, and the college was pushing back. It seemed as if we were not coming and couldn't get the attention of the college administrators. President McMurray and whoever the other presidents and administrators were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=4925.0,5006.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So a lot of the students were very familiar with political tactics. They had just come from Columbia. A number of the instructors had just come from Columbia University. Hamilton Hall was a big takeover by Black students in Hamilton Hall, had deemed that Columbia University was not really serving the needs of Black students. And brought that fervor, that information, those tactics right here. Couldn't get a meeting with the administrators, couldn't get their attention. Had disruptions in the library, turned over books and turned over card catalogs and stuff. Got their attention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5006.0,5067.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What was it like hearing about that? Like, would people tell you? Would you read about it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5067.0,5071.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yeah, we would hear about it, you know, \u003claugh\u003e, we would hear about it, you would hear about it, right while it was happening, while the history was happening. You would hear about it, or a day later, you know, or somebody would report back because the groups, they would come together and strategize: we want a meeting with so and so, and how can we get their attention, you know? They would do things and they would come back and discuss strategy. Wanted to have a press conference. I think one of the pictures we had of a press conference we had with media saying, displaying the demands of the student group, you know, the press reporter would write it up, I guess the way he saw it, and probably listened to some of the people who were spokesman. We had people who would be designated as spokespersons with the press. Didn't have like somebody who knew what the hell was going on, being the person who was gonna speak to the press, people who would be able to articulate the demands and position. And also learning from the Panthers, when they would ask you, \"Well, what are you gonna do next?\" And put the mic in front of you, \u003claugh\u003e. You wouldn't say, \"well, then tomorrow we are going to go over to Jefferson Hall.\" You know, so it was, it was that kind of like atmosphere of rebellion and push and pull and strategy. It was an interesting time to be alive. Because you felt that things were happening, something was happening, you know, positive things were happening. Like Frederick Douglass says, \"Power conceives nothing without a demand. It never has and never will.\" And he says, you have to agitate, agitate, agitate. So they were agitating. A lot of political science individuals were involved. They were agitating, agitating. Lloyd Delany, he sought us out. He came over and said, \"How can I be of assistance to you guys? What's going on?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5071.0,5229.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e You know? And, he recognized the injustices. He had written about injustices in society and was so good because he was like a good ambassador. He was a full professor and one of those, one of their colleagues, but also committed to what grassroots [people] were concerned about. He was able to broker an understanding from administration to what the rebels were seeking. I remember once he told in the speech, he said he told to his colleagues, he said, these students, they don't want anything different from what you would want for your children or your student. Well, free and equitable educational opportunity. That's all they want. And it seemed to have made sense to the resisting clan. The administration that were like, \"This is our college. You're gonna, you're trying to lower our standards and what are you talking?\" And, and then students, some of the students were talking about \"get off our campus\" and you know, so he kind of like neutralized the resistance in the opposition and allowed people to listen objectively to what was being requested. A matter of identifying the injustices as being legitimate. So he was, I guess the great peacemaker, I think an arbiter in reference to bringing the two groups to a communication standpoint where exchange of ideas where happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5229.0,5380.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And before we continue with Lloyd, tell me more about his predecessor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5380.0,5390.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, Lloyd's predecessor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5390.0,5391.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5391.0,5392.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, okay, that was the Director of the SEEK program?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5392.0,5398.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5398.0,5399.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Nice guy, Joseph Mulholland. They said he was a parole or probation officer. Did a lot of good things. You know, his intentions were really good, you know, but it seems as if he got caught up in being in the wrong time, the wrong place at the wrong time. It just seemed as if he would've been wise enough to say, let me replace myself with a Black director.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5399.0,5446.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e But at that point, the whole SEEK administration was all white. It was almost like a metaphor for Johannesburg, you know what I mean? Where the whole service population was of one group being administered to by another group, by a minority group. They had a lot of older students in the program at that point. Students had been in the community and they were not hearing that. I mean, if you were 18 or, or 17 right outta high school or whatever, it's almost like I go from elementary school to junior high school to high school, and never do I complain. Just, \"what's next?\" You know? But you had a number of people who, he had gotten some people, Mr. Mulholland had gotten some people who were previously incarcerated, people from the community, people who saw struggle and opportunity very differently. In other words, opportunity was not something you just give me, it is something that I, when I earn it, you know, then it's really mine, you know, as opposed to just giving it to me. They wanted to be able to shape their own destiny as opposed to you telling them, someone else telling them what's good for them. You know, that was like a common theme that the administration wasn't listening to. They seemed to have had their own idea as to what you need without asking. And nobody from the group, the needy group, was in the decision making position. It was just only receiving and often receiving of the particular decisions that were not in the group's best interests.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5446.0,5585.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e. I guess it, it wasn't Mulholland who hired you, was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5585.0,5593.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, he was, he was the Director of the [QC SEEK] Program. He hired the Director of Counseling who did the hiring. So when the Director of Counseling, Dr. Burt Backner hired me, Mulholland agreed with that. So Mulholland really not directly, but indirectly, because he was like Director. I guess he had to sign off on my hiring by the Director of Counseling. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5593.0,5626.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5626.0,5626.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. So in a sense, he did hire me, but he didn't interview me and hire me. He kind of like approved what his Director sanctioned, so to speak. Yeah. But we had a fairly decent relationship. He's the one who shared with me what he would like me to do: develop the summer job program, develop the transfer program, develop a housing program for students, you know, and he was a very outgoing and positive individual. But I don't think, I don't, you know how some cases, some liberals are not aware of \u003claugh\u003e, the micro, the-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5626.0,5687.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e microaggressions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5687.0,5689.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5689.0,5691.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Especially back then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5691.0,5694.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Well, with liberals, you know, like \"some of my best friends are Black, you know what I mean?\" \u003caffirmative\u003e They're not, they weren't really in touch with what that really means. \"I couldn't be, how could I be prejudiced? Some of my best friends are Black,\" you know what I mean? That was an impossibility at the time. You know, some liberals - they couldn't see beyond their version of not being prejudiced. Because they had a Black friend. We call it, someone phrased something \"benign racism\" or something like that. It's softy, but I'm really not overt, \u003caffirmative\u003ebut I'm not conscious of it either. I don't know if Mulholland was ready to entertain the aggressive, and at that point there were very, some very aggressive, individuals that were like, like in some cases you had to be super Black, you know, dashiki and have a spear and, you know, you had to be \"Wakanda forever\" \u003claugh\u003e. But I don't think he was ready for the onslaught, and he was not ready to engage the people \u003caffirmative\u003e in a constructive way to see their point of view. You know? He was like, \"I didn't do anything wrong. Well, what did I do? I gave people opportunities.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5694.0,5825.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e They [student activists] were saying, no, your administrative staff, there's nobody of color there. Nobody's making any decisions, but what are you talking about? You know, and resistance to see those things, almost like, rather than listening, defending yourself, you know? I think that kind of position made it very difficult for him. \u003caffirmative\u003e. Made it very difficult for him to even survive the very militant and demanding group. Like there was just no communication. There was just, yeah. You know, just bouncing off each other, you know? And that makes it very—he had to concede to resign, and then the administration wanted to try back him, and they saw hell being raised and the college was getting out of control. I think they decided like, well, you're gonna have to take the spear, buddy, get outta here, because it's starting to become viral.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5825.0,5903.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, like, we can't have this, if we can stop the bleeding \u003caffirmative\u003e, we can stop the bleeding, then maybe we can get back to a sense of normalcy. \u003caffirmative\u003e. So they had to, I'm sure that they [inaudible] were not prepared to stand behind him at that point, you know? \u003caffirmative\u003e. But he did some good things. He did some good things, he did some good things. But because he kind of initiated a skinning here to have this particular opportunity, I think that he might have been shortsighted about not having inclusion. \u003caffirmative\u003e He initiated the whole thing happening and brought people in here who became, I guess his nemesis, but he brought them in. \u003caffirmative\u003e He gave them an opportunity, but all the things did not fall into place to make it a desirable existence at the time, you know? So that's why I said he was in at the wrong time, you know, the wrong time. He wasn't ready to change rapidly enough to be able to survive it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5903.0,5982.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So I'm gonna pause briefly just to see how much time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5982.0,5988.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Wow. We've been talking now. I've been talking \u003claugh\u003e.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5988.0,5997.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e That's the goal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5997.0,5999.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, you gotta keep me on track cause I can kinda like state, I forget what her, state position was at that time, Shirley Chisholm, but I understood she had quite a bit of favorable input. Did I mention Percy Sutton? Oh, I left him out. Who Percy was also. Yeah, he was, he was the Borough President of Manhattan one time, and Percy was also in there [fighting to create SEEK] too. But all of the Black legislators, I think, from what I understood, it was a matter of they needed a bill passed. They needed their votes. And they said, the guy said, well, what are we gonna get out of it? You know? They said, well, what do you want? We want educational opportunity for people in our community. \u003caffirmative\u003e. And that was a quid pro quo. That was the deal. Something with something. Yeah. That's how I think that, how, that's one of the stories. It's a very good documentary called, Second Chances; SEEK Program Second Chances, that kind of like really historically talks about the very beginning of the program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=5999.0,6084.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750/transcript/49576/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207750#t=6084.0,6090.05213"}]}]},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 4 - Modeste_William_by_Mondesir_Obden_07152019_PT2.mp3"]},"duration":2498.85619,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/207/749/small/Modeste_William_photo_1__aviary.jpg?1694109784","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/207/749/original/Modeste_William_by_Mondesir_Obden_07152019_PT2.mp3?1694109409","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2498.85619,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript - July 15, 2019 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Poor people get pneumonia. Everything gets squared multiple times when it happens to us, you know? So SEEK has been under a lot of pressure, from a budgetary standpoint, then it gets pressure from a performance standpoint, anything to sort of like stop the flow of people getting access to opportunities that allow them to be part of the middle class or being more productive in society, you know? And when you think of it, if you look at a children of, let's say that first generation of SEEK students, their children don't do that. Paula LaLande is one example of it. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e Her daughter, she's accepted to Harvard and now is a member of a prestigious law firm. And if you go through the second generation of SEEK graduates, you are going to find some outstanding success stories. Case in point, one of my students, when did she graduate?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=0.0,84.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh gosh. She must have graduated in 2000. She was out and came back. Her daughter just got a scholarship. Her daughter just graduated from high school. Scholarship to NYU, and she took the scholarship to St. John's. So the point I'm making that once one generation gets a sense of success educationally, economically, they catapult their siblings or offspring right into the mainstream, and it kind of turns the whole thing around. Just like LeBron's kids, Steph Curry's kids, Kevin Durant's kids, Shaq's kids, Magic Johnson's kids. They're gonna be the makers and shakers of things. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e, You know, because they've had that takeoff ramp that allows them to slide right into an area, escape the poverty and all the trappings, the societal trappings that people who don't have the financial wherewithal get bottled down in. That's not gonna happen to that generation. And the same analogy or comparison, that when one generation gets academically, educationally and professionally successful, they replicate another generation that's able to fend for themselves. Now, the thinking on this economy with the debt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=84.0,206.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Student loan debt,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=206.0,207.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Student loan debt tends to like, they might not be able to do as well as their parents in reference to finding houses and whatever, because student loan debt becomes almost a hidden thing that trapped them off, you know, an unexpected thing. But in reference to being able to have a skillset to even create their own entrepreneurial aspects, they can navigate society a lot differently than if they had not had that head start from a parental, educated and professional parental group that have the chance to sort of like throw them out, prepare them to even survive in a very new societal way. I've seen that. So I'm seeing that so prevalent with students, even the ones who came and didn't graduate. It seems as if their lessons that they're learning, that experience gets passed off to their offspring in a way in which the offsprings become relatively successful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=207.0,288.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Ok, can you think of any students that fit that example?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=288.0,293.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e One, Paula LaLande, like I said, she was my student. She was working here as a teacher. She was director of, what did we call it? - student services. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e. And she was Director at York for a while. And, she did her doctorate, I think, on the SEEK program. Yeah. She did a chronological thing. This happened. Which was very good. I did get a chance to see it because she used my thesis and my buddy Nick Townsend's thesis. Yeah. I brought these phone numbers in for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=293.0,340.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Great. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=340.0,341.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah. This guy Waldo Jeff. He was like one of the first directors of counseling and one of the first counselors in the program when I got here. He came in for dedication of the building. He knew Lloyd [Delany] very well. He and Lloyd were pretty good friends. Lloyd","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=341.0,365.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Delany. Yeah. And this is Waldo","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=365.0,367.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Jeff. Yeah. Waldo Jeff, right. He's in Cincinnati. He was with Proctor and Gamble for a number of years, left here and went with Proctor and Gamble. I forgot where I put it now, I was saving it for you also. We did a little seven day, seven day workshop, which he kind of coordinated. Everybody wrote a little paper. I know I have it here somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=367.0,403.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e A paper related to Delany or,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=403.0,407.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Related to the SEEK program and related to educating our population, Black and Puerto Rican and poor white people in this area. I don't know where the hell I put it. \u003claugh\u003e. I got it here somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=407.0,447.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, so they also disapproved of Hartle. Did you know him at all? Say it again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=447.0,453.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Say it again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=453.0,453.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Say it again. Did you know anything about Hartle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=453.0,456.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Hartle. Only that he was, Interim, He was the Interim Director after Mohalland left. \u003caffirmative\u003e. So you never","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=456.0,466.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003caffirmative\u003e. So you never","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=466.0,466.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e \u003caffirmative\u003e. So you never Met him? No. Well, I met him when you came in. Never had a conversation with him, but, you know, administratively, you know, he was in the towers [Kiely Hall]. We were down here, you know? Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=466.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. So I guess some things I want to understand, and like, you can't through through reading is how would you like, describe your, not your day-to-day, but what would it be like as a counselor; like you would just work with the students and that would be it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=480.0,502.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e The counselor's position was basically to, I guess, make students feel confident, competent, and comfortable here. In some cases there was a kind of alienation from college. We [were] on 61st Road [outside of the main campus]\u003claugh\u003e, and our headquarters was in Temp III. You know, we felt like a second class. We felt very second class. People used to instead of saying that they were in SEEK, they would say, \"I'm on SEEK,\" you know, like, I'm on welfare\u003claugh\u003e. They would get a stipend and they would have to line up in Jefferson Hall, the business office to get their stipend checks. And usually the secretaries who were giving them the stipend checks would say, \"I saw those shoes at Bergdorf.\" It was always this kind of like discomfort or disease in reference to- I'll give you a perfect example. I'm dressed, shirt and tie, sport jacket, everything. I had to get some forms to get glasses. So I go over human resources and I ask the secretary for the forms for human resources. So her response—I said, \"Can I get the forms for optics or glasses?\" And she said, \"What department are you with?\" I thought human resources, in my head, was just for employees coming over to give stuff. \u003claugh\u003e I just hesitated and was like, \"Hmm, why do I have to announce my department?\" So I hesitated. So she filled in the blanks and said, \"Buildings and Grounds?\" I said, \"No, I'm with the SEEK department.\" I left there, and she didn't mean any harm, but it was like a microaggression. She didn't say, \"Chemistry? Biology? Is it the Physics department?\" She saw me and put me in where I belong in her head: Buildings and Grounds. Because all she saw was this [points hand on skin].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=502.0,676.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So students were- well, I did bring something I wanted to show you. I wanted to show you the statistics prior. This is on my first director, Bert Backner, he did the ethnic breakdown of the program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=676.0,717.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And then when they say living in a dorm?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=717.0,721.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e We had a resident facility. Check this out. It was on 72nd Street on Broadway. It was in a hotel quality Alamac Hotel. This was '68. '67. '68. I'm sure, I know it was here in '68. Cause when I got hired, one of my responsibilities was to send or to monitor the students who wanted to live in the residence facility. It housed students from all of the SEEK programs, who would live in this residence facility, the Alamac Hotel. So Hunter, Queens, Brooklyn, whatever, any the SEEK programs. If you had difficulty living at home and you needed a place to stay, like a dormitory, that was the Alamac Hotel, the SEEK residence hall. We had it before the Summit, before we had the Summit [Queens College's dorm] over here. Obden, it was on 72nd Street at Amsterdam and Broadway. That area was called Needle Park. That was a big heroin area of the city. So we had something good, but it was situated in a place that was not healthy and conducive for goodness. It was not a good fit, but it was better than having no place. Why am I telling you this story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=721.0,846.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I was asking about the dorm, like,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=846.0,848.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. Beause again, you got some statistics about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=848.0,852.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. So you said they were at the Alamac Hotel? Which was near Needle Park.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=852.0,858.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It was 72nd Street, Broadway, Amsterdam. They call that area Needle park. Okay. Yeah. Cause heroin, heroin was big during that sixties, seventies, you know, eighties crack came and crack cocaine came in. It was in the era where, in the sixties, with Timothy Leary and acid and, what do you call 'em? Flower people, you know, Woodstock and free love, and take your bra off. And, you know, it was, it was Jimmy Hendrix. I mean, everybody was, not everybody, but it was like space cadets and, and the war in Vietnam and dissendents pushing back against the establishment. You know, it was just trying time for a young person. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e If you didn't have grounding and a good social structure and stuff like that, you can get trapped off very easily. Heroin was a drug, like, even Oxycontin and all that stuff is happening now on the suburbs. I hear about it, you know, I haven't witnessed it, but I hear about it. But there was epidemic proportion during those times. Early sixties, late sixties, and over to the seventies, heroin, boom, boom. We had a program on campus called Radical Action Program to deal with drug addiction on campus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=858.0,977.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e This is just on Queens College or through SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=977.0,979.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Through SEEK. Yeah. You know, we would try and deal with addiction because we are getting people from the community, some cases who were previously addicts or trying, they had the forthought to see that they wanted to do something with their lives. But after they left here, they went back to the community and indulged and whatever. So they were torn between two things. We were trying to have sessions and situations to assist that population. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e. That was a very trying time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=979.0,1029.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What year about?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1029.0,1030.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I would say '69, '70, '71, '72. In fact, one of my documents in here talks about, one of the SEEK bulletins talks about Radical Action Program and what it did [paper shuffling]. Oh, well, this one talked about, it talks about the SEEK Residence Hall and where it was since 71st.The Alamac Hotel, or Hotel Alamac. They have the address in there. Wow. I didn't realize this. I never looked at this... Oh, here it is: Radical Action Program. Yeah. I'm talking about attacking the social and political atmosphere that tolerated the abuse of these drugs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1030.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And I guess, did you work within the Radical Action Program?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1140.0,1145.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yep. I gotta get you in touch with this sister who was very involved in it. She lives in Hampton, Virginia now. Her name is Pat McCoy. Yeah. Yeah. She's a good person too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1145.0,1164.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you describe, aside from what we see here, could you describe the project and your experience with it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1164.0,1172.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, \u003claugh\u003e it was kind of trying, they used to do these encounter routes, you know, like... I don't know if I'm that familiar with it, like triple AAA, Alcoholics Anonymous. You go into groups, you tell what's bothering you, you get help from the other people in the group. You have a facilitator that tried to keep things in hand and not let it get outta hand, not let it get personal, individuals to individual. We would try to get people to deal with their issues, you know, their fears and their shortcomings. It seems as if, when you're able to accept and explain them to a group, it was a means of vindicating yourself or giving you the power, retaining your power to manage it. There was a one gentleman, he's in California now, he was really trained in that area, and he was sort of bringing us along. But it was creating a forum for students to at least share their particular innermost concerns, expose themselves to what they considered shortcomings, realizing that other people had similar circumstances and they were not alone. They were not different. It's just a matter of managing life's situations, and giving people tools to do that. Putting them in limited situations. Not excuses as excuses, but, okay, let's develop a plan. What are you gonna do tomorrow? How are we going to attack this? You know, creating some structure for them. You know, those kinds of things were very important. And they would identify people who were having trouble managing and bring them in for consultation and for strength building, so to speak. You know? That was outside the classroom, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1172.0,1344.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1344.0,1350.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e That was a portion of our concerns. It was viral in a sense because it was a portion that was parasitic in a sense. It kind of like grew. It was infectious and had some brothers were coming on selling drugs on campus, you know, taking advantage of this opportunity to commercialize on it. Those were some of the negative aspects that seemed to infiltrate positive aspects, you know? So we had to push up against them, push back against them, and try to advise and encourage students not to give their power and their influence to the negative side. If you are here to do something positive, it's not compatible. Getting people to see that, you know? There were quite a few successes and often there was some failures too, because some people just just said they were gonna drink the Kool-Aid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1350.0,1447.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a chemical reaction. We gotta understand that it has to be treated in a very particular way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1447.0,1454.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1454.0,1457.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Cool. I guess, so I see these... was there anything else in particular?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1457.0,1468.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e What else...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1468.0,1470.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess one thing I wanted to ask about was in 1973, I know that there was another protest on the behalf of SEEK. \u003caffirmative\u003e. Cause when I was looking at Second Chance, the documentary [Second Chances: The CUNY SEEK and College Discovery Story, produced by CUNY TV]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1470.0,1486.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, you did see it? Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1486.0,1487.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1487.0,1487.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Okay, good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1487.0,1488.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So in 1973, there was a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1488.0,1492.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, there was always, I mean, it was always push backs against us, you know? Yeah, it just seemed as if it took us a while to really get an acceptance on campus. People saying \"They still have that program? It's still around?\" Not realizing it's 52 years old. July 5th, 1966, was the date that legislated the program. But then, you know, what happened too Obden?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1492.0,1537.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1537.0,1538.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Open admissions. And we were very cautious of this as some more political minded people than myself came with open admissions, which meant that any student who graduated from a high school could go to the City University. But it was like a revolving door. They could come in and learn, and they went right back out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1538.0,1562.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e We saw this as a replacement for SEEK's success. And then evaluating the failure of open admission with the whole SEEK experience in attempt to throw the baby out with the bathwater, throw everything out. Throw open admissions out and SEEK also. Because then it takes them so long to graduate. Why is a college teaching remedial courses? Then came in with an edict that SEEK should not teach remedial courses and you have to pass these three tests to get into the SEEK program. Tests in reading, writing, and math. If you don't pass them, you would not be eligible unless you went to a summer program. So, that was added later on. But all of these particular walls, for a better term, started to be built to keep the immigrants out of CUNY. All these walls started pop up. Even the Board of Directors of higher ed, Puerto Rican brother... Oh man. He was very, very, very against [open] admissions. His name will probably come to me shortly, but again, he was thought to be an advocate because he was a Puerto Rican member of the Board of Higher Ed. I think he was the first president of Coastal's Community College too. Herman Badillo. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1562.0,1698.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1698.0,1698.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Oh, wow. Thanks. I was able to get it to you. Because as soon as you leave, as soon as you left here, then it would come to me, you know? But I was right on top of it\u003claugh\u003e. Herman Badillo. He kind of reminds me of this person in the article. You who said that, \"Moholland wasn't so bad\"... You know that group who said that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1698.0,1725.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Those that came in came to his defense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1725.0,1728.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. They came to his defense. Yeah. And Badillo was coming to the defense of the people who were building the walls to keep students, keep people from the community, from getting in, getting access to the City University. And you thought that he would be one who would understand the systematic racism and the systematic aspects to keep people out for centuries and centuries.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1728.0,1760.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e First before that, they decided to impose tuition. And people said, \"wow, tuition, it's been tuition-free for 150 years!\" But the political affairs said that when the university started to become more black and brown and poor white, now we're gonna talk about tuition. Now, the people in the state said, well, yes, we need tuition, but it's not gonna hurt that group of people financially, disadvantaged group of people, because we are gonna set up something called the Tuition Assistance Program. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e. And they could get funded from that, so it won't hurt them. Okay. So your guys stop Dinkins. Don't be alarmed. But again, it was a Trojan horse started, cause it was supposed-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1760.0,1821.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Hi. Hey.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1821.0,1823.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBackground Colleague:\u003c/strong\u003e Didn't recognize you there. How you doing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1823.0,1825.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Good. Right","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1825.0,1827.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBackground Colleague:\u003c/strong\u003e I've never seen you in casual clothes before. Hmm?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1827.0,1829.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Hmm?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1829.0,1829.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBackground Colleague:\u003c/strong\u003e Hmm? I've never seen you in casual clothes before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1829.0,1832.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm casually","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1832.0,1833.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBackground Colleague:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I'm a casual all the time too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1833.0,1836.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1836.0,1837.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBackground Colleague:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you have something for me?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1837.0,1838.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. I didn't see any hours in from me yet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1838.0,1842.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBackground Colleague:\u003c/strong\u003e You just did your form. That takes a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1842.0,1845.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It takes a while. That long?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1845.0,1853.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, Badillo. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1853.0,1854.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1854.0,1854.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I was making a, a comparison where he kind of like went with the opposition as opposed to his constituencies and the people who supported him and put him in office. When he kind of turned and said, well, I don't know, I think that we are admitting a number of unprepared students and its not good at when he was speaking against it, as opposed to how can we make the system service these students? It was one in which tuition came in. This testing came in. Now they want to have SAT scores. We were almost going right back to, you were almost making 180 degree turn. Going right back to the times where people were locked out because of all these particular barriers and requirements, like it was before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1854.0,1928.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1928.0,1930.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I lost the thought.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1930.0,1941.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e We were talking about open admissions being a trojan horse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1941.0,1948.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, becoming like an excuse. And open admissions was not a good; it started out seemingly with good intention for access, but it didn't have any real supportive services for the students that they were bringing in. They just came in and threw them right into the pool with the general population. In some cases, they didn't have the skills or the discipline or the preparation to even survive. They were in one year out the next year. There was a suspicion politically that the open admissions was being devised to replace the SEEK program. SEEK luckily was state legislated. And it had certain things, counseling, teaching and certain things that were supposed to be a part of it now. And it was supposed to be granted to students who lived in federally designated poverty areas. Shortly after that, they came out with a ruling that did away with that. You had to live a designated poverty area- that was no longer a criteria. So that opened it up to everybody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=1948.0,2039.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBackground Colleague:\u003c/strong\u003e Here, this new chair. Do you need One?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2039.0,2042.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e No. Help me Obden.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2042.0,2055.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e We were, \u003claugh\u003e, where were we? We were talking about Mr. Padilla, but then we were talking about, it being a revolving door and students, coming in one year and being kicked out the next, and that there wasn't a lot of support for these students. Oh- and that there was the intention that SEEK was going to be replaced by open admissions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2055.0,2080.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. I think that was part of the caution that a lot of the politically minded faculty members were looking at. Things started happening that gave evidence to that. Like I said, saying that SEEK shouldn't be teaching remedial courses. Questioning the graduation rate. Questioning how long it took students to graduate. All these particular negative things were being amplified in the [New York] Times and in headlines and, you know, it was like being popularized to get, I guess, public opinion against that. [The idea that] this is a waste of money. This is a waste of taxpayer money, spending too much money on these people, you know? And it wasn't a good fit, and we kind of struggled with that. I think that might have given a lot of impetus to legislators cutting the budget or deciding the program is not functional here and there, these particular things that when, when one person said, if you want to kill a dog, first you discredit it. Say he has rabies, say he's mad or something, and then everyone says, well, we'll kill it. Yeah. Wow. You know, I mean, you have to discredit it. And it just seemed as if there was those particular aspects of discrediting was what was happening. And then when you discredit it, people wouldn't even rally around it. Even people who were well thinking individuals almost like, \"I can't get down with that, well do what you gotta do.\" You know, that kind of thing. So I see in hindsight now, how the groundswell of discreditation tends to create isolation and separation. I saw a lot of that happening, a lot of that was happening with the SEEK program. At the time, it was almost a badge of shame rather than a badge of pride, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2080.0,2258.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Students were coming in and saying, \"Is that gonna be on my diploma? Do I have to take SEEK classes?\" I started getting a student who want to take advantage of the opportunity, but didn't want to identify with the people who were giving it to you. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e. It was that kind of like, internal friction, I think that was happening, to some degree.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2258.0,2293.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Internal friction in what sense?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2293.0,2294.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e In ideological friction, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2294.0,2298.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, so among the staff?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2298.0,2300.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e No. Again, students who were coming in, and this is later on too; students who were coming in and feeling as if they didn't want to identify with the group that they were coming into. They wanted the opportunity. They wouldn't want to identify.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2300.0,2323.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And this is in what time period?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2323.0,2324.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I would say getting deeper into early eighties. Yeah. Early eighties. It was incremental. It started changing, you know. As the population, as the ethnic population of the program started changing. Then the attitudes of the students started changing also, you know? Because the program got established because it was basically a predominantly Black and Puerto Rican program and the administrators were all white. So we were able to see something wrong with that. That was an apartheid situation. We was able to see something very wrong with that. At one time, we had like 29 counselors and about 1500 students. This must have been mid seventies. Yeah. '75, '76. We were rolling, but after a while, the population started changing and we started to get more different ethnic groups coming in. It seems as if it went from predominantly Black and Puerto Rican to Asian, no, Latino, Asian, I gotta guess my statistics together. Latino, Asian, Black, other. I think that's how I went. But, and even now, it's spun so much that I don't think there are any Puerto Rican students. There might be a few Puerto Rican students in the program, but right now, I think the largest ethnic population, it's probably","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2324.0,2481.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749/transcript/49577/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Latino. Then it was Asian for a while, then I'm not sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207749#t=2481.0,2498.85619"}]}]},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 4 - Modeste_William_by_Mondesir_Obden_07222019_PT3_Trimmed.mp3"]},"duration":2031.084,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/207/751/small/Modeste_William_photo_1__aviary.jpg?1694109805","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/207/751/original/Modeste_William_by_Mondesir_Obden_07222019_PT3_Trimmed.mp3?1694109513","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2031.084,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript - July 22, 2019 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And that you hired someone else?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=0.0,2.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e The document that I came across was by the then president, McMurray was his last name. What was his first name? Joseph McMurray. It was a document announcing the passing of Lloyd T. Delany. It indicated that Lloyd was the professor at the university since 1958 in the Department of Education (I knew that). He was the Interim Director of SEEK when Joseph Mohalland resigned. First, when Moholland resigned, Dean Hartle became the Interim Director, and then Lloyd T. Delany replaced Dean Hartle as the Interim Director of the SEEK program. During that period, the SEEK Counseling Faculty Student Coalition hired Ralph Lee, a gentleman, I think he was from Texas. He came in and he was hired as a Drector of the SEEK program. At that point, Lloyd became the Director of Counseling. This is all in '69. It appears as if I found a letter from Ralph Lee dated November 5th, 1969, asking Dr. Delany, Lloyd T. Delany to get in touch with him regarding some concerns that he, the Director, Ralph Lee, had. The letter from Joseph McMurray, the [Queens College] President, announcing the passing of Lloyd T. Delany indicated that Lloyd passed away on November 8th, and funeral arrangements were set up for November 11th at Riverside Church.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=2.0,177.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So the sequence of Ralph Lee's letter to Lloyd on November 5th, followed by the letter from Joseph McMurray on the 11th indicating that Lloyd had passed away on the 8th put it in the timeframe. That gave me a complete understanding of where Ralph Lee was at the same time where Lloyd T. Delany was. They were both on campus at the same time. One was a Director of SEEK, he was hired by the SEEK Coalition, Faculty, Staff, and Counseling Coalition. Lloyd T. Delany was here as Director of Counseling at that particular time. That was a very good clarification of the events for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=177.0,267.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I still am a little concerned about Ralph Lee's existence. When he was hired by the Faculty Student Counseling Coalition, like the people hired him. Right after he was hired there was great dissatisfaction with him, and the Coalition felt they made a mistake and hired the wrong person, and he was asked to leave. Now, I'm not completely sure how he resigned and when he resigned, but he was not a satisfactory candidate for the program at that time. So he was asked to leave at that point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=267.0,333.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not sure who replaced him, but I'm researching to find out who replaced him at that point. I'm going to be talking to one of the senior counselors at the time, Mr. Waldo Jeff, who's now in Cincinnati, and he had done some extensive writing. He was one of the architects and one of the leading individuals regarding the [SEEK] program at that time and initiating the change from Joseph Mulholland, who we felt was not serving the best interests of the program. I'm waiting for some additional information, and hopefully with us comparing our historical notes, we can come up with a more factual account of what happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=333.0,401.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=401.0,402.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e During that month of—I guess it was November, December, January of that particular 1969. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=402.0,423.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. It would be great to clear up what happened in 1969. In our last interview we discussed a lot of things. We did mention Mr. Hartle after Mulholland, and then there was a moment where we talked about housing for SEEK students and how they were at the Alamack Hotel, that was near Needle Park. You've also mentioned the Radical Action Program that Pat McCoy was—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=423.0,465.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=465.0,466.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e —really integral to that program and that, you know, heroin was a big problem in all of New York, and that that also affected SEEK students in the SEEK program. So some of the last things we talked about last week were the internal frictions within SEEK, where funding was always a battle, and then also how the demographics of SEEK changed from Black and Puerto Rican to something that's more diverse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=466.0,503.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e In fact, I have a document I want to share with you that was issued by the college that changed the SEEK program from a department to a program. It was a letter to me indicating that my status was changed from a Lecturer in the SEEK program to the Department of Special Services, of Student Services, because the SEEK program [department] had been abolished [and changed to a program]. It was from the Acting President of Queens College. And if I can put my hands on it—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=503.0,569.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e We'll pause. So this is me asking about who Ralph Lee is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=569.0,574.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. From what I understood, he was a director of a community college in Texas, and his background was chemistry. If I remember—this is digging back into the real corners of my memory. \u003claugh\u003e. He wore a bow tie. Even Jay Hershenson and faculty were calling him Bow Tie at the time. But what really threw a damper on his desirability for the program, he responded to resumes that the coalition sent out, and he was selected as one of the best candidates. We had an initial meeting where he came in to meet the Black and Puerto Rican Faculty Student Counseling coalition, like meeting the people and being welcomed and being prepared to interact with us. We had very, very collective involvement. Students were on the P and B (that's the Personnel and Budget Committee). It was real collective effort. The group was conversating, getting to meet him, and introducing themselves and talking. He got a call from the president's office, and like a jack-in-the-box, he was ready to scamper out of our meeting to respond to the wills and wishes or the concerns of the president. The group saw this as a deal breaker, said, \"We got the wrong guy. We have the wrong person who has greater allegiance to a phone call from the president, then to the group who brought him here.\" That was the beginning of a credibility break with where the coalition wanted him to be and where he appeared to be in reference to his actions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=574.0,758.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e From that point on, the coalition made moves to tell him that he was not welcome and tried to inform the college, \"we made a mistake.\" I don't know how that was received, but there was another struggle around correcting that mistake. Didn't have a chance to involve myself with him, because it seemed at that point, he was the wrong person. He was too toxic \u003claugh\u003e. It was of no value to involve yourself with the person who didn't seem as if he came here with the people's best interests. He seemed as if he was more concerned with aligning himself with management and administration. That's as much as I can remember about him and the incident. But that was the ultimate deal breaker when he decided to leave the group. This was our first meeting with the group that recruited him as, \"now you are gonna be our leader.\" He came in and decided that although he would be ordained as a leader for the group, he was responding to messages and concerns from the administration. That seemed to be an outrageous evidential conflict of interest and conflict of intent. Our group was very politically astute \u003claugh\u003e people. They were very familiar with coup d'états and political uprisings and how governments were stretched and handled. They saw this as not a good sign.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=758.0,897.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you tell me, so you described the group as a coalition. Could you tell me who was in the coalition?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=897.0,903.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yes, I can. There were SEEK faculty, SEEK students, SEEK instructors. All the clerical staff, the entire program. But the coalition was basically a nucleus of those people. They had a communications, everything was broken down into different areas. You had a clerical committee, a curriculum committee, communications committee, research committee, radical action program, medical and health committee, legal committee, tactics and marshalls committee. This [document] is a little schematic—I think this is on the cover of the 1969, concerns 50 years later, the flyer that comes from your office. That little diagram is on the cover of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=903.0,1028.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e It sounds like there was clearly a divide between like the administration at Queens College and the SEEK program from the beginning of its inception from '66 to like even '69 when you're making this decision. Could you describe the relationship between those within the coalition in SEEK and the Queens College administration?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1028.0,1060.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, at that point, Queens, the SEEK program, prior to the existance of the SEEK program, the percentage of Black students on campus was a fraction of 1%. It seems as if the SEEK program, which started in '66 with a 100, I think 75 students or so, was the biggest influx of students of color to the university at Queens, the college at Queens that it had ever seen before. It just seemed as if we were not a welcome guest. We were in houses on 61st road. There were private houses that were retrofitted to be student houses. Right. There were a few other houses on the road that were [there]. I know Anthropology was on the road, and a few other houses that were academic departments were on the road, but SEEK was on the periphery of the college. Our main headquarters was in temporary building number three, which was on campus, but it was a temporary building. The director and administrative officers were there. It seemed as if the teachers who were hired at that point were members of the college departments. For example, the English teachers were members of the English department. The math teacher was a member of the math department. The contemporary civilization teachers were members of the contemporary civilization departments at the college.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1060.0,1217.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e If we had an art teacher, when we had an art teacher, they were a member of the art department. So there was this cold relationship from the departments on campus and the SEEK program. So the members were housed in the departments that were on campus. In some cases, that was acceptable, depending on the department. In other cases that was not acceptable with certain departments. They were questioning, well, you don't have the credentials, and time, and there was a lot of friction or dissatisfaction with that relationship. It was always a schism. At one time, the departments gave an ultimatum saying that the teachers in the SEEK program who werre affiliated with the department, they have an opportunity to choose to be with the SEEK program, or choose to be with the department. Some of the SEEK teachers decided to go with the department and leave the program. I think politically, they saw the college as being a more permanent structure. They saw the SEEK program possibly, and probably, being very temporary. At the whims of funding, economy, politics. That climate presented in the building to certain instructors. A number of them stayed with the SEEK program, like Professor Omayemi, he's with the Political Science Department, and Alan Milchman. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e Mark Rosenblum stayed with the program. There was an Allen Rosenberg who stayed for a while, but eventually went with the political science department. There was a Spanish teacher that decided to go with the department. There was a philosophy teacher who's decided to go with the department, and he's still there now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1217.0,1433.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Roughly what year was this ultimatum made?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1433.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I think it might have been early seventies, I believe might have been during that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1440.0,1458.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e You explained the reason for people leaving to join the department. What were some of the reasons that people decided to stay in the SEEK program?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1458.0,1467.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you know, there were some people who were truly invested in the mission of the SEEK program to transform the lives of inner city kids through education, and also enrich the societal experience and allow them to be fully participants in the whole American dream. It seemed as if the SEEK program had one of the dynamic impacts in allowing individuals who were not granted an opportunity to enter the halls of Ivy and education and developed themselves in such a way that they could go back to their communities and make a valuable contribution. It followed the model of the HBCUs, historically, black colleges and universities that seemed to have been constructed to do that from 1865 going forward. Even today, when you talk about engineers and doctors, you're talking about, if it weren't for historically black colleges and universities, you wouldn't see those types of people in our society today. You know? So it just seemed as if this was \u003claugh\u003e an up south version of a remedy to a social problem in society.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1467.0,1640.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e This gentleman, Chris Rosa, we had a SEEK Day on the ninth of July, and it was held here on campus. He made mention that the SEEK program has given opportunities to more inner city youth, and so-called poverty areas, or individuals, and facilitated their graduation and their movement through college more than the Ivy League schools and the other prestigious schools combined. He had some statistics from a study, I need to touch bases with him, because it was quite interesting hearing him make that particular comment. The beginning of the SEEK program, tapping into educational potential, human potential, and nurturing it in such a way that it became more viable, more productive, more influential than all of the universities combined. [It] was quite, quite interesting to hear that particular comment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1640.0,1757.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e He mentioned that once the SEEK program at City University started, the state said, \"Wow, what a fantastic thing.\" They replicated and duplicated the same program. They called it the HEOP [Higher Educational Opportunity Program] program. The private schools said, wow, they're tapping into human potential that we are missing. They created the HEOP programs with the same guidelines and a similar mission. Let's get these students who didn't meet our admission standards, but have potential. Let's get them into the mix. So it became almost a—they say copying is the highest form of flattery. So it became a means of replicating the formula that the founders of the SEEK program implemented.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1757.0,1833.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It seems as if it's producing fantastic results at Queens. Like I mentioned to you before, the first three graduates from the SEEK program were outstanding in reference to their accomplishments and achievements. Recently, May graduation, I think there were three students who graduated with highest honors. I forget the breakdown. Several graduated with second highest honors, several graduated with third highest honors. When you really factor those statistics, here are students who were not eligible for admission, and they're graduating with the highest honors. That's almost a tsunami of a turnaround. You would think that we found the antidote to success and everybody would be replicating it, or at least rewarding people who've made this recycling of human capital possible. I believe now there is some recognition. The college's past president was very well appreciative of it, and I'm hoping that that appreciation becomes highlighted, recognized, replicated, and continued.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1833.0,1958.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Going back to the divide between SEEK and Queens College, I think one of the things that would be important to capture is the feeling. Like how did it feel to be working in this program and seeing and feeling this gulf between you and the rest of the school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1958.0,1985.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e How does it feel?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1985.0,1986.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. How did it feel at the time when you were there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1986.0,1991.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It's like finding diamonds in the rough, you know? I mean, you see people who have the potential, but it seems as if other folks have not recognized the potential. You've recognize the potential and believe in them [the students], and then you see them succeed and excel. You make a way out of no way. You know? \u003claugh\u003e It's like, the ancestors are saying, \"Hey, don't let us down.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=1991.0,2030.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751/transcript/49578/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[Interview concluded here, as Modeste answered a phone call.]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207751#t=2030.0,2031.084"}]}]},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 4 of 4 - Modeste_William_by_Mondesir_Obden_07292019_PT4_amplified.mp3"]},"duration":4324.59755,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/207/752/small/Modeste_William_photo_1__aviary.jpg?1694109822","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/content/4/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/207/752/original/Modeste_William_by_Mondesir_Obden_07292019_PT4_amplified.mp3?1694109518","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":4324.59755,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript - July 29, 2019 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Freshman year initiative. That's something that was copied from the SEEK model. We had this freshman year initiative with students who would take courses in a block. Now it is part of the college's offerings- freshman year initiative, where the students, they take their English and Math and I guess a social science course together. So they are kind of like together for that first year and it gives them a certain type of continuity, stability, ability to depend on each other. It creates what they call a learning community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=7.0,56.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=56.0,58.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e We found out that was quite productive in enriching the educational experience for students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=58.0,73.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e What other firsts do you remember?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=73.0,76.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e My colleague, when you get her dissertation and she answers some of the questions you just asked me. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e. They had a revision. I thought I had it all, but she dates chronologically when things happen in the program. Oh here it is. When we talked about revision guidelines, they changed the eligibility requirements to be a citizen or sign of Declaration of Intention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=76.0,121.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm looking for the guidelines that were changed. And I think it was 1970 when they were changed. The '69 Board of Higher Education developed procedures to appoint instructors and counselors. When you get her, is she on your list to talk to? Paula LaLande?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=121.0,168.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, she is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=168.0,169.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. This is one of her documents. Her dissertation kind of like, gives a chronological set of events in how things happened at certain times. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e. I think they even have her, a lot of her information in the archives downstairs. Professor [Norka] Blackman[-Richards] has a lot of her stuff downstairs. [Note: Now located in the SEEK Records in Special Collections and Archives, Rosenthal Library.]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=169.0,217.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I'll make sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=217.0,218.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I'd like to see how that matches itself with the stuff I'm finding in my memory. \u003claugh\u003e.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=218.0,225.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm just gonna give the date. So today is July 29th, 2019. I'm with Bill Modeste, discussing the history of SEEK. Today we're gonna look at some documents and discuss that, and also just talk about SEEK after the seventies, going into the nineties and today. I guess one of the first things we should discuss is this first document that's in front of us that's dated for November 12th, 1968. Could you describe that for me?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=225.0,259.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e November 12th, 1968. It was a document that was issued by a student indicating that they were going to the SEEK Theater for having their first production of an original play, \"White Womb, Black Scars\" by one of the SEEK students. Very prolific and bright gentleman, English major, Arnold Kempt. He's since passed away, I think about three years ago. He was living out of New York City and State. I'm sure exactly but I was informed of his passing, about three or four years ago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=259.0,318.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e In this document, this letter encouraging all the counselors to invite their students to this first production of the SEEK Theater. And it indicated that also appearing at this event would be the exciting group The Last Poets. I understand they are known to be one of the founders of hip-hop music and spoken word music. One of their members, Felipe Luciano, was at that time a student in the SEEK program. It talked about this event happening on November 15th, 1968. Mind you, I had just started working at the college in February, 1968. So all these happenings were quite new to me. I seemed to have gotten aboard a train that was already moving. I was just trying to find a seat, so to speak. It was very exciting to see that this group of students who were not invited to the university, but got access through the SEEK program, came here with so much creativity, energy, and excitement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=318.0,438.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So this letter was one that I found, and I thought it was significant. It was written by the young lady by the name of Pat Chin. I remember her; she must been a junior or sophomore when I first came here. She was here for a number of semesters, but a very active student. The program seemed to thrive on student activity. It was student driven, student motivated, and in the best interest of student development. This was in 1968, the infancy of the program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=438.0,496.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And what do you remember about the SEEK Theater? Did they have more events? Were you any more involved in it as they went forward?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=496.0,513.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm under the impression that there were continuing events. I don't recall any others that I can identify, but the students who were interested in drama, theater, dance, and the arts were trying to formulate activities that showcased their talents, abilities, and even allow for additional training and development. I don't remember any additional events that were announced or marquee, like the one that was offered on that date, November 16th. But there were cells of students doing different things. We had a group of students who were involved in photography. They set up and created a dark room in one of the buildings that we had. We generated a basketball team called the Brothers Basketball team and League, Brothers Basketball League. And all the City Universities had teams that were participating in it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=513.0,608.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e They were not on the traditional varsity team, but we created our own SEEK basketball league. I remember Queens had a team, Brooklyn, we even had, Fordham had a team. St. John's had a team We would go around and play each other. We had cheerleaders. So students were just creating and and using their experiences to develop their talents. But to answer your question directly, I don't remember additional performances or plays at the SEEK theater. But I'm sure there were, and again, I might not have been in tune as a new person to pick up on all that was going on at the time. In addition to that, when I first started in '68, February 68, I was not assigned a group of students like my other counselors had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=608.0,693.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e They had caseloads. I was in charge of transfer students, finding jobs for students, summer jobs and part-time jobs, and also housing for students in the Alamac Hotel. We were trying to set up some housing in the Queens area. I was also in charge of students who wanted to transfer to another school. So I didn't have a caseload. I just had all these other responsibilities. I think I got those responsibilities because my experience was working with HARYU [Harlem Youth Unlimited] as a vocational counselor. We were providing services to students from 18 to 21 years of age in the area of employment, of job training and pursuing colleges or training programs. That's how I even got recommended to apply for a job with the Queens College SEEK Program. Since I had been doing that for other students, it was thought that maybe I could find a place in the university where I could fit in and use my skills. So I almost migrated in a sense, from what I was doing for other students: sending them to college. At that time City College had a program, this was 1965 and [19]66, called the Pre-Baccalaureate Program. That was the forerunner of the SEEK program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=693.0,816.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I'm not acquainted with other activities by the SEEK Theater.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=816.0,830.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e The next document we have is from November 5th, 1969. Could you describe what this document is?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=830.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. This is a document that was sent to Dr. Lloyd T. Delany, Operations SEEK, Director of Counseling. It asks Lloyd, it says, \"Dear Lloyd, this is very important. Please get the information requested in time (excuse me) in item one, two, and three from each counselor as soon as possible. I imagine you can provide item for yourself. I know it will be difficult, but I would appreciate getting this information by Friday evening, if it is at all possible. Yours Sincerely, Ralph H. Lee,\" the Director, and this is dated November 5th. I don't know what the items 1, 2, 3, or 4 are or have reference to, but I'm sure Lloyd was not able to respond to this particular request by the Director Ralph Lee, because Lloyd had an untimely demise on November 8th, 1969.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=840.0,958.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you discuss the, the impact of Lloyd Delany's passing? How did it affect the SEEK program?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=958.0,966.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. It was was devastating. It was devastating because he was our shining star. He mediated our conflict with the college [in spring of 1969]. Since he was a professor, he was able to communicate with his colleagues and sensitized them to an understanding of what SEEK was requesting and changed their perception of how they viewed us as rebels and revolutionaries and undeserving individuals and so forth and so on. He kind of brokered an understanding that allowed them to accept the demands and the existence of the program for that moment. \u003claugh\u003e That might have been the quiet before the storm, but it created a quietness that allowed both parties to communicate their concerns. He volunteered this. He wasn't recruited to do it. He just saw a need and came aboard and did it. It was important. His importance was so crucial to that period, because it was a volcano almost ready to erupt and explode.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=966.0,1073.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e He came and sort of like silenced it through communication and understanding. He was a clinical psychologist, actually. He had a private practice, so I'm sure his skills were very well applied to the situation. And it seemed to really, really work. So in him losing him, it was like falling and having to hold your breath. We didn't know what was going to happen after that. It was quite sudden, you know, he was, I think only 40 some odd years old. It wasn't expected. It was not expected. We had to recalculate, extremely recalculate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1073.0,1130.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e To answer your question, it was quite devastating to his family, definitely to the SEEK community, and I'm sure to the Queens College community. He was well liked and well appreciated by the College community. He had been here since 1958 as a professor. One of a handful, one of three [Black faculty] I remember. Dr. Wolf who was in the Education Department and Dr. Thelma Adair was also in the Education Department. These were a handful of Black faculty members. A handful. You can count 'em on one hand. On one hand. And that was three; I think there was another one that I kind of remembered, but I don't think there were more than five at the time. [Unclear] I can't think of her name. It was a tremendous shock and loss to the program, to the college community. He, Lloyd, had created a certain type of guidance and mentorship. A number of the SEEK counselors at that point, he was a good person for advice and guidance and mentorship. So it was devastating, really devastating. His importance is reflected in the dedication of the building, Lloyd T. Delany Hall. It was one of the first buildings to be dedicated to a person of African descent in the City University.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1130.0,1285.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So he passes in November and it's difficult for SEEK. What's it like working with Bill? Eventually it becomes Bill Sales. Yes. We've discussed the chronology of the people that come afterwards, but at a certain point it becomes Mr. Sales. Could you tell me, I guess, at that point, things have been settled in SEEK as far as—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1285.0,1323.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the concessions had been made. There's some concessions that had been made in reference to—we had a list of demands. You know, they had an English course that was 11 hours that had no credit. The curriculum changes—I would have to look at them, I don't remember them all now, but there was a request from the students to have more Black instructors and more Black counselors. In '68, '69, '70, we start getting a supply of Black counselors \u003claugh\u003e. Because before it was like a comment, \"Well, we don't know where to find them,\" that kind of stuff. We started getting a staff that included people of African and Puerto Rican descent, getting faculty members that reflected the student population. That started happening in '68, '69, and '70. It indicated at one point our enrollment increased each year to about 1400 students. This is in fall, 1971. So, the SEEK program at Queens College became the largest in the City University. I think only second to CCNY at that point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1323.0,1434.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e So things, as you mentioned; things had settled to a point that SEEK was getting some autonomy to sort of like, decide their own fate and follow their own concerns. They were being self-determined with having the curriculum and functioning the way the individuals in the program thought was the best way of serving this population. So things were sort of moving very nicely. A curve that in 1970, the curve that put into the whole operation when they decided—the city (and I say they) to institute open admissions. SEEK thought very suspiciously that open admissions was an attempt to replace the SEEK program. Cause open admissions just allowed students to come in with no supportive services. And it was going to almost create a revolving door.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1434.0,1528.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Students who come in, they flunk out, and then a database would be generated that, \"See? We tried this and it didn't work. This was a waste of taxpayers money.\" Those kind of scenarios seemed to be always very popular to discredit and dismiss, discredit and dismiss. So the SEEK population was very suspicious of this being like a Trojan Horse. Open Admissions got a lot of flack in the founding, not the founding fathers, the college administration and alumni was saying that open admissions were reducing the college's standards and, you know, had all these negative things to say about it. Those negative comments also filtered over into the SEEK program because it seems as if you're dealing with the same population. So, that was a stormy road that we had to try to overcome, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1528.0,1619.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So you mentioned that some people were afraid that Open Admissions was part of a plan to eliminate SEEK but you have the SEEK rebellion and a lot of the protests that were happening at Queens College, were asking for things like open admissions?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1619.0,1641.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e No. Well, they weren't asking for things like open admissions, but in a sense, the SEEK program was the open door to the university. But it seemed as if the powers that be were not really utilizing the existing opening door. They wanted to create another entrée that didn't have sustainability for success. They wanted to popularize another entrée that had an open door, then a trap door, you know \u003claugh\u003e. It just seemed as if it was a scheme. It was a scheme, you know. Let's stop talking about SEEK; you got open admissions. Any student can come; any high school, or you in the top percentage of that, or you have a high school diploma, you can come in. You have high school, you just can come in. You know, this is better, this is the best thing now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1641.0,1724.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e But it didn't have any really substantial commitment and aspects of making the newly admitted students successful. It didn't. It seemed as if it was plotted against the SEEK program that was already there and almost advertising a better thing than SEEK. Why should we fund SEEK when we got open admissions? Let's fund open admissions. SEEK, they're passé. We'll deal with open admissions. So it became a kind of bait and switch. You know, it was a bait and switch political maneuver. My politically astute colleagues saw that, you know, wait a minute. This seemed to be a trick bag as you would say on the street. This was a three car body, you know, move. The final thing is that it seemed very suspicious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1724.0,1810.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Once open admissions takes place, how does that change Queens College? What do you remember about that? Changing Queens College and SEEK?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1810.0,1823.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, two things. Open Admissions, it was kind of tricky because it gave students who had a high school diploma almost the recognition to the City University. Again, it did not increase dramatically students from Black and Brown communities, because they were not the ones who were graduating from high school in larger numbers. It almost created a greater access to non-Black and Puerto Rican students to get access to the University. So it didn't even do what it was in theory supposed to do. The SEEK program had a built in clause that you had to come from one of the five so-called anti-poverty areas, designated anti-party areas: South Jamaica, Lower East Side, Harlem, Bed-Stuy. I don't know what this Staten Island piece was, but these were supposed to be part of designated poverty areas. Now, this guy, I think his name was DeFalco, public legislator.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1823.0,1913.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Shortly after that, he got the designated poverty area requirement in SEEK removed. Because he his theory was that SEEK having the designated poverty requirement did not allow other students who were needy to have access to the program. So when the EOP- the Educational Opportunity Programs - were modeling themselves after SEEK, they did not have designated poverty area, but they had the same financial guidelines and all the other things. They did not have designated poverty areas. His view was that was not necessary. So when they removed from SEEK the designated poverty area, that allowed other students to come in. And again, you were getting students who met the financial requirements: you were supposed to be financially disadvantaged and supposedly educationally disadvantaged. And you had to have an age restriction and you had to be in New York City for more than a year. So when that happened, that allowed an additional flood of students to come in. And then you got a mixed bag of students, and you got a lot of white students who were financially disadvantaged. You got other ethnic groups: Asian, Indian, Korean, and other ethnic groups that applied. That was all well and good. Because you were dealing with a very deserving population. And the support system that we had here was designed for a deserving population.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=1913.0,2059.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e And this change happened in 1970.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2059.0,2060.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2060.0,2063.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, great. So I guess, well, we're gonna look at the next document, which is from—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2063.0,2073.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I need to do homework before I get to you buddy \u003claugh\u003e.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2073.0,2077.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e It's from '95, July 31st. We've kind of discussed this as a watershed moment for SEEK. Could you describe that document?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2077.0,2088.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. This document I got by mail to me; it was certified mail with return receipt requested \u003claugh\u003e and first class mail dated July 31st. Wow. Hmm. Almost an anniversary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2088.0,2108.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Two days.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2108.0,2110.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e 1995. \"Dear Mr. Modest,\" and he talks about, \"It is with sincere regret that I inform you of the discontinuance of your appointment in the title of Lecturer in the Department of Special Programs, which is being abolished.\" Our Department of Special Programs is being abolished. \"Your appointment is being discontinued because the department is being abolished due to financial exigency. It is important to emphasize that this discontinuance is in no way reflected upon the quality of your service to Queens College. You may request a review of the decision to discontinue your appointment by filing a request for such review with my office within 20 days of the date of which this letter is postmarked. The appeal and review procedure is enclosed for your information.\" Then it has, \"I am however pleased to inform you that pursuant to bylaws of the Board of Trustees, the college has found a position which it believes you can effectively and capably fulfill. I am therefore recommending to the Board of Trustees that you'll be transferred and appointed as Lecturer with Certificate of Continuous Employment to the Department of Student Personnel at your current salary on or before November 1st, 1995.\" This is from Stephen N. Curtis, he was the Acting President of Queens College when this letter was written to me. So this letter documents the demolishing of the SEEK program as a department and moving the SEEK program into the Department of Student Personnel. So we don't become a SEEK department, separate and equal to other departments. We become a Program that's included in the Department of Student Personnel. The Dean of Students would be the Head. I think that one or two of us were able to be on the board as members of the Department of Student Personnel. You know, they had like an Executive Board, maybe a member of our program would be on the board, but other—financial aid was a part of this. Other units were a part; the Registrar had been part of this. Other things were a part of the Department of Student Personnel, you know. So we were then a program, but housed in Department of Student Personnel. This was really the neutering, or, yeah, I call it the neutering or the downgrading of the SEEK program in reference to its administrative authority and status as a department in the college. It was happening at the same time that [New York Governor] Pataki had discontinued the funding of the SEEK program for the coming years. He did not include include it in his budget. These things were happening simultaneously. The house was falling down, this was part of the collateral damage, as you might call it. Mm-hmm. \u003caffirmative\u003e. Yeah. So, this happened, and this letter was sent to me. I just happened to have it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2110.0,2428.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I thought it was significant because it kind of puts circumstances in a timeframe and highlights what really was happening. Fortunately for me, I was continued. I had four colleagues that were not continued. They had been working here for more than 20 years. They were let go. They were not able to be included into the budget. And one of them you're gonna be talking to is Jim Fisher. He's gonna be one of the ones who, and in some cases they found - the union tried to find - other places in the City University for them, but they were not able to continue at Queens. Jim, they found a position for him at York. He'll probably give more details. In fact, I did speak to him and he's eager to share his experiences with you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2428.0,2500.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, this is '95. So we've discussed SEEK during the seventies and the eighties. Are, are there other significant events that you could think of in the nineties that lead up to what happens in 95?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2500.0,2526.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e We started to get a, a changing SEEK student. You know, the SEEK students started to change ethnicity. Students who started to come in became different in kind. We had a larger Asian population, a larger, extremely large, Spanish speaking population. They were not from Puerto Rico, but from South America: from Columbia, Ecuador, Peru. Interesting. We started getting students from foreign countries, but they were like middle class students in their country. But they were, I guess, considered immigrants here. I say that because I remember talking to one of my students, I think he was from Peru, and he was telling me that his father was an accountant and they were professionals, you know? I was like, whoa. Not that I had anything against them, per se, but it just reflected that you were getting a different, how could I put it? Demographics, in a sense, socioeconomic group of the Spanish speaking population was different from the one the program was designed to serve. It was interesting seeing that dynamic. They didn't seem to have, in cases, they didn't seem to have the kind of commitment or involvement and appreciation for the program. It was like, \"You got me into college. Thanks. See you later.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2526.0,2686.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, maybe not even thanks. \"You got me into college. How much aid am I going to get? What else you gonna do for me?\" It didn't have a reciprocal kind of like, flavor to it. Then we started getting a large group of students from from Asia, I'd say from Bangladesh. I say that because there was a language requirement for the college and if you could speak the language fluently, you could take an exemption exam. Urdu was one of the languages, Bengali, and other languages that we were encouraging students that you can get exempt from the language requirement. You could get the language exam exempt if you could fluently pass and speak this foreign language. I started to get exposed to languages I wasn't even familiar with because I was suggesting that they get this exemption in their language, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2686.0,2767.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e We started getting a multiethnic population. I guess this puts it in—we gravitated into the early nineties, eighties and early nineties, it just kept on happening. At a point where we didn't see students of African descent hardly at all. I know the Board of Higher Ed came up with a mandate, I'm not sure exactly what year, that to go to a four year school you had to take and pass a CUNY assessment exam in reading, writing, and math. If you didn't pass them with a certain grade you were not able to go to the four year schools. You could go to the community college, then you can transfer into the four year school. So it started separating our population from this original mission of Black and Puerto Rican students. That pool was not there any longer. They were at the junior colleges, the community colleges, but they were not getting access in large numbers to the four year schools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2767.0,2865.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e The ethnicity thing was kind of like turning around. I guess it reflects itself with, if Black and Puerto Rican students are not graduating from high school, then they're not going to be candidates for college. In this kind of like, not a cycle, but it was a supply and demand situation. It wasn't a supply, so the demand could not even be filled. You know, the demand was like, we need more Black and Puerto Rican students. That's the mission of the program, but we couldn't produce them. They were not coming from the high schools. So where were they? In prison. The ones who were available didn't fit the economic guidelines. If your parent had a social service or public service job, like [unclear] sanitation, a policeman, whatever, you probably were not eligible for SEEK, especially if there was only one or two people in the family. So Queens population who might qualify, who could benefit from the SEEK program didn't qualify because of the financial situation. And if you did qualify and you were doing well, well you probably had so many other options that it didn't give us a supply to replicate or continue the mission of the progam. That's how I sort it, you know? \u003claugh\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2865.0,2976.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e No, your perspective is important. So, that's what's happening in the nineties. And then 95, SEEK is downgraded to a program as opposed to a department. What were your colleagues saying and thinking at the time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=2976.0,3004.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Our colleagues—it seems like the administrative hierarchy, for want of a better metaphor, built a wall. They built the wall in such a way that fighting back against them, pushing back against them, without student sensitivity and encouragement, was not very successful. You probably remember this, I remember it was something about metro cards that the public school kids didn't get or something. They raised a big stink with the city. The city acquiesced and wound up providing metro cards for the students. It seemed as if, to answer your question, when my colleagues were seeing our hands being tied and our abilities being forfeited or blocked, resisting against it without student support became almost non-effective. Case in point, financial aid have some criteria that we challenge, but can't do anything about it. That's the financial aid system. If someone has a conviction, they're not entitled to financial aid. We can't do anything about that. You know, and it was those kinds of bureaucratic obstacles or steel walls that it just seems as if, and I guess a lot of the faculty felt that, I'm gonna see if I can help my students graduate from this university. I'm gonna put my energies in trying to get 'em out of this university, as opposed to fighting the bureaucratic obstacles of the deal. You know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3004.0,3157.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Then our base started dwindling. At one time we only had \u003claugh\u003e maybe four counselors, a freeze on hiring, all these administrative things that prevented you from continuing the struggle. Moratorium on hiring, no hiring for a while. And you were just dealing with four counselors at one time, you know? So those were impediments that were resisting our pushback from the administrative injustices and not having the student sensitivity and involvement with what was going on. A lot of the students who came in, well, I just want to get out. I just wanna get a good job. I want to come in and out. You know? They were not concerned with the program that got them here. They were just concerned with, I got here and how do I get out? You know, we didn't have a politicized group. We started losing the politicized group of students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3157.0,3238.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e How did you feel about, the downgrade?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3238.0,3246.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e How did I feel about it during that time? I felt committed to students. I remember one student said to me, \"Mr. Modeste, you can't retire until I graduate.\" I thought that that was a very flattering comment on her part. She had a kid, she used to bring her kid to school with her too. I felt kind of committed to, if I can get maybe these group of students that I have through, then, maybe I have accomplished a personal goal. If you can get 'em out before they close the doors of opportunity, then maybe that's all you can accomplish at this point. It's like baseball. You might not win the game, but you might win the second inning or the fourth inning. You might outperform the fourth or the fifth inning, you know? If you can do that, there's a modicum of success in that particular. So at that point, I had to just summarize in that fashion, little victories. Mini-victories, so to speak. I felt that was all that could be accomplished given the staff, given student disinterest, given the political circumstances and the political climate we were in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3246.0,3393.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you describe those circumstances? Like what's happening in the nineties?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3393.0,3400.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e It seemed as if the college was creating more control of how the program functioned. There were articles being very critical of its existence and its value. From what I understood, they were replicating similar programs that made offerings for community colleges and giving students laptops and this, that, and the other. That almost eclipsed the opportunity program that SEEK was designed and functioning in for a number of years. It seemed as if the powers that be were moving away from the SEEK opportunity model into other more fashionable things. Our mayor, the billionaire—and you saw that happening even in the school system, making one school into four schools. Like Andrew Jackson campus, I think four or five schools in there. That wasn't [Mayor] de Blasio, that was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3400.0,3494.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Giuliani?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3494.0,3498.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no. The billionaire. Bloomberg.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3498.0,3500.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Bloomberg.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3500.0,3500.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Bloomberg. Bloomberg, thank you. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3500.0,3502.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Those were the early 2000s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3502.0,3504.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Well, what was happening? This was the nineties. This is after '97. Yeah. So yeah, it is kind of creeping into early 2000s. Beause he served like three terms, right? He changed the legislation where he got a third term in there. He changed the Board of Education to the Department of Education, you know, all these significant nomenclature changes, functioning changes, that move stuff around in such a way that did not support the mission of the SEEK program. People would even ask, \"They're still around? Is SEEK still around?\" Because it's not in the conversation from the administrators or the state people. It's almost like an afterthought. It's value is not—it's just celebrated its 52nd year of existence! But it just seems as if it hadn't yet the administrative and the public attention that was worthy of its accomplishments.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3504.0,3605.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know the politics, I'm not completely understanding why, because when you see what changes this program has created, in a positive sense, to the society, to the community, to the educational experience, you would think that this would be the antidote to miseducation and poverty and despair. This would be like the penicillin of miseducation. But it's not getting that kind of attention from the powers that be. I'm saying that I'm just a little troop on the front lines. I'm sure all the intellects have a better vision, perception, understanding of societal factors than I do. I don't see them really lifting this whole thing up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3605.0,3687.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I must admit, this gentleman, what's his name? Oh gosh. He''s in the wheelchair. Oh gosh. Roosevelt?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3687.0,3707.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Roosevelt?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3707.0,3707.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Roosevelt? Rose is his last name. He was out here for SEEK on July 9th. He was out here for the SEEK Day here, Freshman Day, Welcome Day. He spoke. I can't really—why am I blocking his name? Rose is his last name. He spoke, he's in the wheelchair. He's now involved in chancellor, some aspect of the City University in a high position. He was a student here too. He indicated, I wanted to quote him also, that the SEEK programs created more opportunities for quote disadvantaged, so-called disadvantaged, students from inner city areas, so called poverty areas, than Yale, Harvard, Princeton, all the Ivy League schools and the other schools combined. It was a tremendous testimony. Chris Rose, Chris Rose made mention of that [Dr. Christopher Rosa, a former CUNY interim vice chancellor for student affairs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3707.0,3823.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e He was quoting a study that indicated that low income people from so-called disadvantaged areas, the SEEK programs in the City Universities have created more opportunities for success and contribution to the community, society, business, and in every aspect of the workforce, then all of the Ivy League schools and other schools combined. I'm saying that is a tremendous testimony that seemingly truly under the radar that it's a dog whistle. Nobody hears it. Nobody sees it. Nobody recognizes it or gives it any accolades. Why? I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3823.0,3898.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, my dear. [Crosstalk with colleague in background] \u003claugh\u003e.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3898.0,3910.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Chris Rose. Rosa, Chris Rosa.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3910.0,3916.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e So I guess one question I'm gonna ask is, how, how do you see SEEK changing in five years from now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3916.0,3946.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e I would like to see it being the model for students who quote fall somewhat short, shorter of general admissions, but have desire and commitment to be successful getting the opportunity. Because it's not—how you get out. The students have to get out by taking the same courses as anyone else. But if they can get in and have the opportunity, then they have a chance. But if you deny them an opportunity of coming in, having a chance, then you are denying them before they even get a chance to even express their abilities. I see the same thing happening now with the specialized high schools. Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=3946.0,4028.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e LaGuardia?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=4028.0,4049.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e The four that you take these specialized tests to get into. Now, they're talking about, it should be more than just one test to be able to get in there. It might be a game, you're not feeling well when you take the test. The number of circumstances that this test, one test doesn't define your abilities to be in a highly competitive educational environment. It should be a complete summary of your abilities. I think they're re-examining that particular protocol. People have been, who've been successful, have been sending their kids to prep programs and all these kinds of things. So they can take and pass this one test. But it just seems as if there's some inequalities in that whole procedure. Because it seems as if in all the schools, the percentage of people of Puerto Rican or Latino and African heritage is always on the short end.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=4049.0,4136.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that indicative of them not having the ability? Or not having the opportunity? Or not having the preparation in the lower grades, elementary and junior high school? And they are evaluated singularly as opposed to collectively. Because SEEK is a perfect example of students who are told that they are not college material, they come in and outperform students who are college material. So when you see that you have outcomes like that, it will make you understand that maybe there's some faultiness in the process. I'm just hoping that the powers that be reward what we are doing so we can continue to do a greater job because we are servicing a population that's [unclear]. What's happening too, Obden, is that the children of the generation that was serviced by SEEK, their children are now elevating their own performance, elevating their performance, going ahead to doing bigger and better things all over the place because they've had a propulsion from the experience that their parents were able to give them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=4136.0,4243.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eWilliam Modeste:\u003c/strong\u003e That's what happens. I think people who have a culture of success, they don't even have to tell the kids, you gotta study this, or whatever. It's kind of like a given in their surrounding. It's a given. Your vocabulary, you're kicking it with big words. Oh, did you read this book? You are a reader, your boom. It's a given. So that's my hope - that the powers that be, the shakers and makers and the designers of things will recognize the successful elements in this opportunity program and allow it to continue to flourish and be of greater service to more people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=4243.0,4310.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752/transcript/49579/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eObden Mondesir:\u003c/strong\u003e Thanks. I think we'll just stop it there for now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/106924/file/207752#t=4310.0,4324.59755"}]}]}]}