{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/4x54f1n53d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Dr Jessica Harris Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eObden Mondesir interviews Dr. Jessica Harris, a professor in the Queens College SEEK program. Dr. Harris (b. 1948) was born and raised in Queens. She recalls her childhood in the St. Albans neighborhood and evolving demographic of Jamaica, Queens during the 1950s. As a self-proclaimed “Queens College brat,” Dr. Harris recounts her early relationship with the Queens College campus and faculty, as her mother worked in administration in the music department at Queens College for most of her life. Dr. Harris talks about her schooling from elementary school through her graduate degree, including attendance at the United Nations International School, the High School of Performing Arts, Bryn Mawr College for her undergraduate degree in French, and her graduate studies overseas in France. At the age of 21, Dr. Harris joined the SEEK Program as a French professor. After seven years, she was laid off due to budget cuts and returned as an English teacher, where she remained for 43 years. She speaks of the evolution of the student population in the Queens College SEEK program, how its demographic changed over the years and how the curriculum adapted to and in some cases remained the same to serve those changing populations. \u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.queenslibrary.org/book/My-soul-looks-back-:-a-memoir/2094135\"\u003eClick here\u003c/a\u003e to check out Dr. Harris' book from your Queens Public Library.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["Interview conducted as part of the Queens College SEEK History Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1950s-1980s (temporal)","Paris, France and St. Albans, and Jamaica, Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2021-03-16 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Dr.Jessica Harris (Interviewee)","Obden Mondesir (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Tags"]},"value":{"en":["Queens College Alumni"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/45905"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eObden Mondesir interviews Dr. Jessica Harris, a professor in the Queens College SEEK program. Dr. Harris (b. 1948) was born and raised in Queens. She recalls her childhood in the St. Albans neighborhood and evolving demographic of Jamaica, Queens during the 1950s. As a self-proclaimed \u0026ldquo;Queens College brat,\u0026rdquo; Dr. Harris recounts her early relationship with the Queens College campus and faculty, as her mother worked in administration in the music department at Queens College for most of her life. Dr. Harris talks about her schooling from elementary school through her graduate degree, including attendance at the United Nations International School, the High School of Performing Arts, Bryn Mawr College for her undergraduate degree in French, and her graduate studies overseas in France. At the age of 21, Dr. Harris joined the SEEK Program as a French professor. After seven years, she was laid off due to budget cuts and returned as an English teacher, where she remained for 43 years. She speaks of the evolution of the student population in the Queens College SEEK program, how its demographic changed over the years and how the curriculum adapted to and in some cases remained the same to serve those changing populations.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.queenslibrary.org/book/My-soul-looks-back-:-a-memoir/2094135\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"\u003eClick here\u003c/a\u003e to check out Dr. Harris' book from your Queens Public Library.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/433/small/Harris-Jessica-aviary.png?1626167965","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - GMT20210316-182514_Jessica-Ha_640x360(1).mp4"]},"duration":3005.28,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/119/433/small/Harris-Jessica-aviary.png?1626167965","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/119/433/original/GMT20210316-182514_Jessica-Ha_640x360%281%29.mp4?1626167808","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3005.28,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Full Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Went back to screen sharing, I guess my video stopped or what, how did that happen? Oh, there we go.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=0.0,7.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. Okay, cool. So I will give the slate and then we'll get into it. So today's date is March 16th, 2021. My name is Obden Mondesir and I am with—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=7.0,26.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: It could be—I was a professor in the Queens College SEEK program for 50 years.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=26.0,36.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yes, and we are collecting this oral history for the SEEK history and the SEEK oral history project on the behalf of Queens Memory and the Queens College Special Collections and Archives. I guess the first question I wanted to ask is could you state the year you were born and where?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=36.0,63.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: I was born at 2:00 AM on the 18th of March, 1948 in Queens general hospital.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=63.0,74.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Happy birthday in advance. Could you tell me about the first home that you grew up in?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=74.0,86.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: The home that I came to from the hospital was 147-05 111th Avenue in Queens. So I was born and raised in Queens. I remember a little bit about that house. It was the second house from the corner. It was, I guess, what people might've called a mixed neighborhood. Now our neighbors, as you face the house to the right were the Syriani and Italian folks, and to the left, it was a Fushë and Otto West. And that's, you know, that was it. It was a fairly wide street. I think it was a two way street. I don't remember whether or not it was a bus street, but you know, that's kind of, that was my little world until I turned well, until I was five and then I had my sixth birthday, a few days after we moved to the house that I really grew up in. The house my parents both lived in until they died, which was 179-75 Anderson Road. And that was over in what was then called St. Alban's. But what happened with Queens was as more Black people moved into a neighborhood, it all became Jamaica.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=86.0,173.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And I guess, could you tell me more of what St. Alban's was like growing up in the mid 1950s?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=173.0,182.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Well, I guess St. Alban's was—we must've moved in 1954 and I don't think we intended to be per se, but we were blockbusters. What that meant was we were the first Black family on the block and it came with its own, I guess, price, which was that everybody rapidly moved off the block. Our neighbors were the \n[unclear]. Goodness. I haven't thought about any of that in eons. And they were an old German family. I think it had been a German neighborhood. It, I don't really know, at that point in time though, I do know that on Linden Boulevard, there were, there was a wonderful bakery that, you know, big sort of German sugar cookies. And, you know, there were lots of little mom and pop shops of that kind of ilk. But hadn't really thought about that eons, but we moved in and very shortly thereafter the neighborhood was mainly Black, not entirely Black, but, but majority Black and I believe has remained so, although I think now it has become West Indian Black as opposed to up from the South American Blacks.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=182.0,277.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Yeah. I guess—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=277.0,284.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: —No, I got it. I don't, you don't worry about it. I'll just, I'll, I'll keep an eye on it and don't worry.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=284.0,289.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. So we're talking about St. Albans and how it's changed and what I found interesting was could you talk about your experience with schools in Queens?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=289.0,307.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: I basically didn't go to schools in Queens. I went o a nursery school and on the border between Queens and Brooklyn, like over in Richmond Hill, which was called DNB \n[phonetic] Nursery. And I went there, I guess, while I was living on a 111th Avenue. By the time we had moved to Anderson Road or shortly thereafter, I'm not sure exactly of the timeframes, but I went to the United Nations International School and I was the first non-UN connected person to go to the United Nations International School. At that point in time, the United Nations International School was in Parkway Village and Parkway Village is a community right off of the Grand Central Parkway between Casino Boulevard. And I've forgotten what the other thing is, but it was a very close tight-knit community of people who lived in—what for some were like co-op apartments, but which others were like apartments, more like houses they had upstairs, downstairs, you know, they had—so that was where a lot of people who were the, not necessarily ambassadors, but the middle managers for the UN lived. My mother actually worked at Queens College. I'm a Queens College brat. When I used to walk into Kiely Hall at one point, there were pictures of all of the presidents of Queens College. And I think what's the possible exception of the first one. And I'm not even sure that that's true. I knew them all or had had some kind of dealing with them all. There was a John J. Theobald and I remember my mother joking and saying, you used to call him Mr. Theobald. And I knew him and then most of the folks that came thereafter. So as a Queens College brat, I, you know, I kind of went to Queens College for pretty much all of my life.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=307.0,446.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: So how did I get to the UN school? Because Parkway was between my house and the UN school, it was a childcare issue. So my mother found my parents—my mother and father found this grade school they could send me to that was on her way to work. And so she would drop me off in the morning and she made arrangements with one of the, you know, the other parents for me to go after school and play with the child. And then she would pick me up at the end of the day. And that was how I got to the UN school. And it was an extraordinary gift because it enabled me to do all sorts of things like speak fluent French and I had an experience that was global before we were talking about things as being global.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=446.0,503.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Could you briefly describe the position that your mother had at Queens College?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=503.0,508.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Well, she had a variety of positions. She started out, I guess, as a secretary, she was not instructional staff. She was administrative and she ended up as the administrative assistant in the music department. She actually was the person who was the kind of the go-to person in the music department when they opened \n[unclear] Hall. So she was there when Marvin Hamlisch was a student, she was there when they had a variety of sort of world renowned professors like—oh God, I'm going to forget all of them—Boris Schwarz who wrote a book called the \"Enjoyment of Music\" that for many, many years was the required texts in all music history classes. She was there with Castellini \n[phonetic] who was one of the people who started the choral society that for eons did Handel's Messiah, they still do it, I know, at Queens College. Joel Mandelbaum, who was for many years in the academic senate is someone she actually got his job. He was a grad student. He was my piano teacher as I was growing up. So I really, you know, I am a Queens College brat. I am probably the institutional memory of Queens College in the way a lot of people neither know nor understand.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=508.0,604.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I guess as someone that's a bit around Queens College for a long time, one of the things that I think about is basically the diversity that existed before and after the SEEK program. So could you describe, what do you remember about the people that were at Queens College at the time, like demographically speaking?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=604.0,634.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Oh yeah. Demographically speaking Queens College was probably basically white and Jewish as was much of the university system. I mean, it was a school—the system was pretty much in many ways to my understanding designed to provide access to education for what was the immigrant population then, which was probably Eastern European and German Jewish people and Italians and whoever else might've washed up. But I imagine that would have—Irish people, but all of them today would be called white period. End of conversation. There were very few Black people on campus on any of the city college, on any of the college campuses of the then City University. And at that point in time, when I sort of started to go, there were four, it was Brooklyn, Queens, Hunter and City \n[unclear] that was CUNY. And then it has grown and spread.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=634.0,730.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And I guess, could you tell me after the UN school how else did your education continue?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=730.0,740.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Okay, well, I mean, I went to the UN school from pre-kindergarten through what would be junior high school. So pre-kindergarten through the eighth grade, I skipped the ninth grade and I went to the High School of Performing Arts. One had to at that point, it was special school, New York City, you had to audition. So I auditioned and I was accepted in theater. I actually auditioned in all three departments 'cause I was hell bent on going there. And so I auditioned in drama and was accepted. I auditioned in music and got a call back from music. I auditioned in dance and that was a disaster I don't really want to think about. I had also you know, auditioned for music and arts and that was just music. And I got into music and art, but it was a much longer commute and I was way more interested in theater. So I went to performing arts, which at that point in time, was at 120 West 46th street, right in the middle of the theater district. And so I went there, graduated and then I went to Bryn Mawr College, which was very unusual because Bryn Mawr was one of—is one of the seven sister colleges. So it is probably about as an elite a girl school is one can get in this country, in the sense of—certainly it's educational history, but the people, the women at Bryn Mawr were noted for being probably more intellectual and blue stocking kind of kind of women so that there was all of that as a part of it as well. So I went to Bryn Mawr. I majored in French. I did a junior year in France with Sarah Lawrence College, which was actually a school that I was probably better suited to temperamentally. I realize that I have pretty much always had an artist's soul. Both of my parents were, I can't say thwarted, but artists who never got to fully express themselves. And I guess some of that they passed on to me in the sense of their artistry. So, you know, I wanted to go into theater, but my parents being good \n[unclear] from the \n[unclear] said you need to have a job, you know, it's all very well and good, but you think you want to be an actress, but what do you like to do to earn a living?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=740.0,907.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: So, I went to college and I majored in French. And as I came out after the junior year in Paris with Sarah Lawrence, my mother was still at Queens College and she heard about this new program that was getting started. And there was a gentleman who was the, I guess director of faculty had been named the director of faculty for the new program and his name was Samuel Floyd. And I don't remember if I met him or didn't meet him, but you know, she dogged his path. The summer I left college, the summer I graduated, I taught in the summer school program at Queens College. So I taught freshmen French or something, you know, first year French. And that was kind of my immersion into that. I then went to France. I have a graduate degree from \n[name of school-unclear] so I went to France and got what basically was then a teaching license in France. And the interesting thing that had happened in France was I was in France between what the French refer to as the événements just before and just after the événements being all of the upheaval in France that occurred in 1968, which was a big year around the world. I graduated from college in 1968. It was an enormous year. So my junior year would have put me in France from '66 to '67. And my graduate year put me in '68 to '69. So all of those things together meant that I, I skipped the deep part of the événements, but I was there just before and just after. And so also was telling, so anyhow, I ended up as I get out of France my second time, I am now working on my masters. A graduate student graduate level student with a degree in French from France. And I am given asked to take a job by the SEEK program. So I do, and I started out teaching French at a time when the SEEK program was a fairly extraordinary place. I don't know that anything like it has existed since within the realm of Queens College. Certainly not within the realm of Queens College, but within the realm of the City University or in other cities in any case, because at that point in time, the SEEK program, although it was not necessarily called such, but pretty much functioned as a college within a college. It offered, you know, not only the English—it offered English, French, Spanish, Swahili, Yoruba, it offered a variety of social sciences, I don't remember which ones. And that was very interesting because in many cases back then the people who were teaching social sciences were radicals in all of the sense of that word. It was a time of very much, you know, name calling and who are you? And what are you? I was teaching French. So I was that bougie girl teaching French. Everybody else was revolutionary. I couldn't be that because, although I knew that French was a language that had a global, you know, sort of importance, most folks didn't, it was like, oh, that's just, that's just the white folks' languages, no Black people speak it too. But back then, you know, it was very much you're either this or that. There wasn't any room for any kind of gray space in there. But the program itself was an extraordinary program. What happened though, was it was so extraordinary that, you know, something like that couldn't survive. I mean, couldn't be allowed to survive is probably closer to the point. And so it became very much a threat. It was very much hacked away at, you know, sort of diminished in, you know, in varying gulps. And of course then there was the New York City crisis—financial crisis. And at some point with the financial crisis budgets got cut, things happened and people were retrenched. I was retrenched the first and only time in my life that I ever was on unemployment.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=907.0,1240.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I understand what retrenched means, but could you define \n[crosstalk]—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1240.0,1247.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: In a word retrenched means I not sure of the exact definition, but essentially it was, you were let go, you had no job. That's why I was collecting unemployment, because I was fired and it was kind of—the SEEK program stopped teaching French. And I'm not sure if they stopped teaching French or if it was the fact that I was the newest hired and therefore the first fired, I don't remember what the deal was, but there were a variety of people who were let go and some of them may have come back. Some of them may not have come back. I really, you know, I'm kind of hazy on that as much as I remember the addresses of places that I've lived in, things that I've done, I don't remember much of that respect because it was stressful. I had just moved and I had no idea what was going on. It was bad times in the city in general, and there I was without a job. What ended up happening was because I had sort of already begun to have a parallel career, if you will, as a journalist, I, at that point in time had been writing about Black theater, had been writing about varying aspects of the Black arts movement that I had been sort of tangentially involved with. People sort of said, well, you know, you can write English, you speak English, \n[unclear] why don't you come and teach English. And so I moved from teaching French to teaching English in the SEEK program. So I taught French, I guess, for my first seven years or six years or something. I ended up with a certificate of continuous employment, which is something that was given to people who were not on professorial rank. And it was sort of the equivalent of tenure. So I had one of those. I don't remember if I got it through teaching French, or if I got it after I taught French, I really don't remember the particularities of that. But I ended up with that. I moved into teaching English with the—at the request of the SEEK English faculty, which at that point was Sam Floyd, Corrine Jennings, Chubb Fontanelle \n[phonetic], Ruth Siegel, and a couple of other people whose names I'm blanking on right now. And generally speaking, they said, look, come join us. We need English teachers. We know how you teach. We know how you react with our students. We think you can do it. We'd like you to do it. The English department took a look at my credentials and said, yeah, this probably will work, no problem. And so I switched from teaching French to teaching English was for decades unique in the program in that many, many—at some point along in there, the faculties were moved into the faculties of their varying departments. If you taught at each English at SEEK you were in the English department, so on and so forth. And I was the only faculty member along faculty member who was housed in the SEEK program. So that was a pretty sort of unique appointment for awhile. And then eventually, and I don't know how long that eventually took. I ended up being on English faculty, but all of that. Yeah?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1247.0,1490.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: No continue.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1490.0,1494.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: But I mean, all of that didn't really affect one way or the other, what I was teaching, I was teaching English, you know, that was just the sort of administrative smoke and mirrors that was going on. But what it meant was as the only faculty member in the SEEK area, because the counselors were housed in SEEK and the financial people were housed in SEEK the teaching faculty at the \n[unclear] was no longer housed in SEEK. They were housed in their individual departments. And I was the only faculty who was housed in SEEK, which meant that I sat on SEEK \n[unclear] in damn near perpetuity for at least, you know, a decade or longer, and you know, and sort of interacted with people that way, another kind of way. As I said, I have blanked on all of that. Some of it was pleasant, some of it was deeply unpleasant and you know, and I don't think about it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1494.0,1562.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: One thing I wanted to go back to was—you did mention that 1968 was a major year of upheaval in France, but also around the world. I was thinking in regards to Queens College, there was the 1969, '68, '69 in regards to the academic year where there is sit-ins and protests with the SDS student chapter at Queens College. And there's a bit of a rebellion at SEEK where there's like a demand for more faculty and teachers of color. Is there anything that you recall from those moments?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1562.0,1610.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Well, if you remember, I was in France, so I wasn't there.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1610.0,1615.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Was there anything like described with—was your mother—because your mother was still working there?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1615.0,1622.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: My mother was there, but she was in the music department on the other side of the campus. She would have known, you know, maybe some of it, but actually she would have been out of that loop as well. I mean, Queens College is and still is, or was when I left, which was only a couple of years ago, an extraordinarily balkanized campus. It's not a unified campus by any stretch of the imagination. So something that goes on in one department or one area even though it may have ramifications for the rest of the campus is not something that we see, you know, over there that resonates throughout it's—people tend to be very much siloed at Queens College. And it was that way. And I think it's still pretty much that way. I mean, you know, if you teach in English, you don't necessarily, unless you make a specific—and certainly if you teach in social sciences, let's take that, you have no idea what's going on in Africana studies, unless, you know, unless somebody is on top of a tower with an Uzi and then you probably know about it. But other than that, you really don't know what the workings of other departments are. It doesn't seem to work that way at Queens. And it may not work that way anywhere, but it doesn't work that way at Queens.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1622.0,1729.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: You were last discussing that you have been teaching English, sorry—you have been teaching at Queens College and after your being let go, you just moved to teaching English and that you have been teaching English for about seven years.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1729.0,1748.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: No, no, no, no. I have been teaching French for my first seven years and then I moved to English. And then I taught English for the rest of my tenure at Queens College. So I taught English for 43 years. So that was how that one worked out.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1748.0,1766.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: Okay. Could you discuss some of the—you know, initially you describe how SEEK was a college within the college and like all of the wonderful things that were really happening. Could you describe some of the events that made it less of an effective program?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1766.0,1812.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Well, I don't know that it was less of an effective program. It just changed in many ways. I mean, I think there's several things up until now you have spoken for the most part with faculty members from social science, who, as I've said, we're essentially radicals with a purpose and a mission of, you know, of radicalizing students. You've also spoken for the most part also with white faculty, which was the very earliest faculty of SEEK. Some of them stayed, some of them didn't, some of them, you know, used—as did many people—SEEK as a springboard to other parts of academic life, either on Queens College campus or beyond Queens College. I mean, a lot of people, certainly faculty members didn't stay and if they did it was they moved. I think that the counselors and you've spoken to a few of them had a different experience because at one point all of the counselors were located on 63rd row in what were called the counselors houses. And they were basically private houses. So they had their offices in private houses that were off of the campus—off-campus essentially and therefore had a whole nother kind of conviviality, another kind of experience of it all. There was also very much a dichotomy with Queens College, between the education of the counselors and that of some of the teaching faculty, in fact, much of the teaching faculty. And I say that to say, not so much dichotomy, but just different experiences. A lot of the counseling staff were graduates from historically Black universities HBCUs. And so they had another kind of experience and other kinds of way of being another kind of way of bonding. That then was enhanced if you will, by the fact that they were in off-campus housing. And pretty much could do what they wanted. Faculty members tended to be from all sorts of places, but generally speaking, not so much HBCU based. And so very much, again, a dichotomy in terms of approaches to education, in terms of ways of being with folks and ways of being with students, never forget that when I started out at Queens College, when I started teaching at the college, I was 20. When I started at college at SEEK, I was 21 being 21 meant that I was younger than some of the students, you know, so that is another thing that was certainly part of me at SEEK. I don't think that occurred to anybody else. I was the youngest of the faculty members at that point. So, I mean, I think all of those things at play and at float talk about the varying different parts of the campus and the varying different parts of not just the campus, but parts of the program itself, you know, and there was always some degree of tension between faculty and counseling staff. And, you know, gradually the counseling staff moved off of 61st road and we were housed in, I think that was temp three back then. So at one of the temporary buildings on Queens College campus and then we began to know each other, but there was still friction you know, and a fair amount of side-eye given on both sides of the wire about, oh, well, what are they doing? What are they doing? And, you know, I mean, so it was not always one big happy family.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=1812.0,2084.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And could you tell me about the students? What was it like working with the students early on in your roles at SEEK?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2084.0,2097.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Well, I mean, I think that one of the things that happened was early on in SEEK there were, you know, SEEK was about being a program that early in its tenure was about Black and Hispanic students. And at that point, Hispanic meant essentially Puerto Rican gradually enlarge to Dominican. And that was kind of it, you know, and then I can't pinpoint a year, but then it suddenly began to change and morph and become increasingly international in its student population. And by the time I left, I think the statistics were saying that the SEEK program was like 43% Asian. So that was a very interesting move too, you know, in a very interesting change because you ended up in many cases with African American and African Caribbean teachers and a changing student population that no longer reflected the population of the faculty. And so that created other kinds of, I can't say issues, but tensions, you know, questions and, you know, points of discussion and, and such as that. So and there, you know, when, and there became all sorts of questions about how do you handle this? Do you still teach essentially a curriculum that was devised when the students were black and Hispanic, or does the curriculum morph to fit the new student population? How does that go? What are you reading in class? How do, you know, how do those things work? I mean, and those things, particularly in English classes more perhaps than in social science, we're still teaching what you're teaching essentially, or in math, or, you know, the botanical sciences, but certainly in, within English, that becomes a question and it becomes a real question. You know, how does this, or does this morph in any way to change or to relate to or to include the new folk? And those are questions that are, you know, they're still being answered and still probably being debated.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2097.0,2273.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: As we were talking about the issue of English with these changing student populations, 'cause I wanted to go back and ask more about—you mentioned Sam C. Floyd, the director of faculty of curriculum. So, could you describe his role in the department and like, I guess, his effect on the entire program?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2273.0,2306.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Well, I mean, Sam had a fairly enormous role at the beginning. I've actually written a memoir. It's called \"My Soul Looks Back\"—Sam and I had a relationship for a while. So I suspect I need to refer people to that rather than to, you know, to anything in this, because it's personal and it's not necessarily something that is a part of Queens College or the SEEK program or anything else. I think that he played an enormous role. I think he was immensely respected by the college \n[unclear] for his intellect. And I think that helped in any number of ways getting things to happen. There were points in times when we had to do general gradings of, you know, student work, it was—I don't even remember what it was, but there were certain kinds of writing tests that were mandated. And, you know, there were always questions about is the SEEK faculty grading to the same scale as everybody else. And there were all kinds of confusions, shall we say? And in fact, a lot of that was diffused in some ways. I mean he had the capacity to be extremely volatile, but he also was somebody who very much could speak with faculty at, in the program, but equally with faculty at the campus, from a point that would have been one that garnered him respect. So that he was a very good advocate for the program.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2306.0,2447.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: And I guess another person I wanted to mention is—I had the opportunity to meet, to also interview William Modeste and his personal description of being at SEEK was parallel to like, it was a college within the college, but as a counselor, as a faculty member, he felt like he was treated as a second class citizen while he was working there. And that like, you know, only while working in the department, that it felt okay to be working in that space. So I guess I would ask you—was the experience of working at SEEK at Queens College different. I understand that it was like balkanized, but I guess in general, what was it like working at SEEK in Queens College during that time?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2447.0,2511.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Well, I mean, I think I am, again, an anomaly. Remember I'm a Queens College brat. The director of my master's thesis was the Dean of the college. The problem that I had with SEEK was probably very different. When I was, first at SEEK, I got appointed to the committee of six, which was one of the governing bodies of the college at that point. And I was brand new, fresh out of whatever, but folks knew my mother and knew that I was, you know, had the education that I had and appointed me to the committee. Well, the radicals, whoever they were, and that includes, I don't know who \n[unclear] was involved in. Them said, oh, hell no, not her, not the bougie girl. So I resigned from the committee of six. Stupidest thing that ever happened for the program because they lost a voice. But those were the times and they were very, very divisive times. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't all together. You know, some of it was within the African-American community, you know, all of the levels and, you know, things that we do to each other and some of it was from without. So it operated on a variety of levels. As I said, there was always a little bit of side-eye between the teaching faculty and the counselors, what are they doing? You know, they had a lot more sort of leeway if you will, and a lot less oversight. There was all kinds of stuff, you know, that folks used to say, you know, it was the time when people were very much, we think we talk about conspiracy theories. Now folks would say, well, you know, so-and-so probably working for the CIA, not really all with us, you know, and it was about where are you? Are you, are you with us? Are you, you know, it was kind of that. And by my major, just simply because I was a French major and a French teacher, I was all automatically suspect, you know? And no, it wasn't always easy. I never felt that kind of second class citizenship vis-a-vis the campus at large because—what were they going to base it on? I had a better education than most of, you know, I could hold my own in English and French. So, you know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2511.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I guess, while I hear you speaking of the situation between, you know, those within SEEK, it hearkens back—because I've had the opportunity to read some of your memoir or a lot of it—you referred to it as social paranoia, like at the time when you were talking about issues with the CIA—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2700.0,2731.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: —Sorry, was that you said—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2731.0,2738.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: —In regards to social paranoia?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2738.0,2743.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: Well, I mean, I think everybody was—social paranoia, meaning, paranoia is often based on reality. Sometimes it is not made up. Sometimes it is real, you know, and the question was, and still is, you've seen the Fred Hampton film, or, you know, okay, this is the time we're talking about. You know, people were infiltrating things. People were, you know, being disruptive, people were doing all sorts of things. And sometimes the loudest voices were the ones who were most suspect, you know, a lot of people started out in the SEEK program. A lot of people, the minute that they were offered the opportunity to jump somewhere else in the college jumped, you know. And never looked back and never, once again, referenced the SEEK program, they just sort of erased that. And then these are teachers Black and white. There were language teachers who, you know, who have risen to heights, never in any mention of them is the fact that they started out at the college in the SEEK program. You know, and there's no need to mention names because it's not about demonizing anybody, but people were very happy to use the program as a stepping stone. You know, I made actually a fairly conscious decision and each exclusively in the English department, but I committed to teaching students who might not otherwise get the education. And frankly, probably because of that United Nations school background, their color while important was not the only factor. You know, I also felt that, you know, that well the SEEK program at some point it's now you can't find an African-American. And I say that, meaning not African Caribbean, not African from Africa, not African from wherever else, but up from the south indigenous to this place, African-American student in the SEEK program at Queens College, that's like looking for hen's teeth and how did that happen? And so there, you know, there are all sorts of problems, and questions, and most of them never get discussed, addressed, or even certainly articulated in any kind of way. It's a very peculiar little place. \n[pause]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2743.0,2957.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: I'm watching you process all of this.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2957.0,2959.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: I mean, It's—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2959.0,2963.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: —It's probably not the interview you were expecting, but go ahead.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2963.0,2966.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Obden Mondesir: No, this is great. It's just like, I'm thinking of the next question, but also realizing that we have like a minute left. There's a lot to move from there in regards to like the issue of like African-American students in the program and the absence thereof. I guess like, for me, like the question I would ask, but I think we will pause now is like, I don't know, like we could discuss the why, but, let me, I'm going to pause it just—\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=2966.0,3004.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433/transcript/31870/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Jessica Harris: —\n[unclear] college didn't exist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/46422/file/119433#t=3004.0,3005.28"}]}]}]}