{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/2z12n50x8m/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Frances Hynes Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 1: \u003c/strong\u003eFrances Hynes describes a photograph of her great-uncle, Charles Benz, with his horse, Babe, in Astoria.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Frances Hynes' great-uncle, Charles Benz, with his horse, Babe, in Astoria, circa 1916. Courtesy of Frances Hynes.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Frances Hynes describes two photographs of her great-grandfather, Lorenz Benz, in Astoria.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Frances Hynes' great-grandfather, Lorenz Benz, early 1900s. Courtesy of Frances Hynes.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Frances Hynes explains why many of her paintings feature star imagery.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Painting created by Frances Hynes in 2022 titled Star Fall, Splendid Night. Courtesy of Frances Hynes.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eFrances Hynes is an artist and a St. John's University alumna who grew up in Bayside during the 1950s. Hynes, who was born in Astoria during the mid-1940s, shows photographs to interviewer Ben Turner documenting her mother's side of the family working as farmers in Astoria before and after World War I. Hynes recalls her childhood memories of living in tract housing on 202nd Street in Bayside; the landscape included dirt roads, vacant land, wildlife, wetlands, and two nearby golf courses. Hynes also recalls witnessing significant land development in Bayside during her childhood, including construction of the Clearview Expressway and the Throgs Neck Bridge.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eHynes attended Catholic schools from elemetary school through high school (St. Luke located in Whitestone and St. Helena located in the Bronx); she began taking formal art classes at St. John's University during the 1960s. Hynes describes her experiences as one of the first students at the university's newly-created art department, including her small class sizes, her exposure to New York City galleries and museums, and the restrictions she faced as a female student. Hynes also discusses her postgraduate education and her career in painting and teaching. In addition to being an adjunct professor at LaGuardia Community College for many years, Hynes has lived and worked outside of New York as a visiting artist in Ireland, Finland, Illinois, Michigan, Tennessee, and Georgia.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Portrait photograph of Frances Hynes, circa 2019. Photo by Belenna Lauto, Professor of Photography in the Department of Art and Design at St. John's University.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/43211"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2024-02-01 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Frances Hynes (Interviewee)","Ben Turner (Interviewer)","Belenna Lauto (Photographer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1900s-2024 (temporal)","Bayside, Astoria, and St. John's University, Queens, NY; Manhattan, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 1: \u003c/strong\u003eFrances Hynes describes a photograph of her great-uncle, Charles Benz, with his horse, Babe, in Astoria.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Frances Hynes' great-uncle, Charles Benz, with his horse, Babe, in Astoria, circa 1916. Courtesy of Frances Hynes.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Frances Hynes describes two photographs of her great-grandfather, Lorenz Benz, in Astoria.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Frances Hynes' great-grandfather, Lorenz Benz, early 1900s. Courtesy of Frances Hynes.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Frances Hynes explains why many of her paintings feature star imagery.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Painting created by Frances Hynes in 2022 titled Star Fall, Splendid Night. Courtesy of Frances Hynes.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eFrances Hynes is an artist and a St. John's University alumna who grew up in Bayside during the 1950s. Hynes, who was born in Astoria during the mid-1940s, shows photographs to interviewer Ben Turner documenting her mother's side of the family working as farmers in Astoria before and after World War I. Hynes recalls her childhood memories of living in tract housing on 202nd Street in Bayside; the landscape included dirt roads, vacant land, wildlife, wetlands, and two nearby golf courses. Hynes also recalls witnessing significant land development in Bayside during her childhood, including construction of the Clearview Expressway and the Throgs Neck Bridge.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eHynes attended Catholic schools from elemetary school through high school (St. Luke located in Whitestone and St. Helena located in the Bronx); she began taking formal art classes at St. John's University during the 1960s. Hynes describes her experiences as one of the first students at the university's newly-created art department, including her small class sizes, her exposure to New York City galleries and museums, and the restrictions she faced as a female student. Hynes also discusses her postgraduate education and her career in painting and teaching. In addition to being an adjunct professor at LaGuardia Community College for many years, Hynes has lived and worked outside of New York as a visiting artist in Ireland, Finland, Illinois, Michigan, Tennessee, and Georgia.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePhoto: Portrait photograph of Frances Hynes, circa 2019. Photo by Belenna Lauto, Professor of Photography in the Department of Art and Design at St. John's University.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/242/818/small/hynes_frances_image3_aviary.jpg?1718742863","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242818","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 4 - 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The date is February 1st, 2024, and we are at the library on St. John's University's Queens campus. So thank you for coming in today, Frances.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=0.0,17.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: My pleasure. I'm happy to be here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=17.0,20.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Great. Frances is a local artist and a former student at St. John's. Tell me about your childhood. When and where were you born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=20.0,32.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I was born in Astoria in Queens, and at the time my Dad was missing in action as a result of the Battle of the Bulge, which was happening at that time during World War II, and I think that's a part of history that's gotten, being forgotten, but I certainly am still very much aware of it. So—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=32.0,61.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Did you grow up in Astoria?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=61.0,63.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I did not, no. We moved, fortunately my dad came home alive and we moved to Bayside Queens in approximately 1949, 50. So those are my first memories and where I grew up. And we lived in tract housing and we were surrounded by fields and farms, flower farms and truck farms that brought vegetables into the city, and they were kind of going at that time, the land was being broken up into lots and they were still vacant, and that was my playground as a child. We played in lots and as the area built up, we were a lot of times playing on construction sites and we played unsupervised. Very different from the way children today are so programmed, and I'm happy for that childhood. We made our own games and our own fun, and we climbed trees and rode bicycles and played board games when it was hot in the summer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=63.0,143.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So that's my childhood in Bayside. I lived between 23rd and 26th Avenues on 202nd Street, and as I said, it was tract housing. All the houses were the same. I think there were 18 houses in each block. They were all painted white. They all had, I think, some kind of dark roof. And I had friends. There were a lot of children in the area. It was really a great place to grow up. We didn't make play dates, we just went out and played. Everybody was out all the time. But I used to stand at the corner and count the houses to find my friend, Gloria Miozzi was in the sixth house from the corner, and that's how I would find her house. They were all so much the same during those first years. And there were fields across the street, there were box turtles, there were owls at night, pheasants, rabbits, and I really still feel bad that that whole environment was destroyed and all that wildlife is gone between 23rd and 26th Avenue. And 26th Avenue is now a very busy street with lights and lots of traffic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=143.0,229.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: When I was a child, which doesn't seem that long ago, 1950s, it was a dirt road. [26th Avenue] at the end of 202 Street where I lived, it was a dirt road almost to Bell Boulevard. And getting down toward Bell Boulevard, there were some older homes, but it was a wagon road with grass growing up. There was another golf course then. So I was living between two golf courses, the Clearview [Golf Course], which is still there, and there was a Bayside Golf Course [that started] at the other end at 26th Avenue [and continued] all the way to 32nd. That was a huge plot of land that was golf course, and we used to cut across the golf course. It was a shortcut. Instead of walking around the whole thing, say, to get to Bayside High School, we'd go straight through the golf course. And down where Bay Terrace is now, it was all wetlands and fields, and there was a flower farm down there. Bell Boulevard, say from 26th Avenue to Fort Totten [was mostly opened land].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=229.0,301.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I guess it was a little rough road [Bell Boulevard]. There had been trolley tracks there. I'm told a trolley car that went from Northern [Boulevard] to Fort Totten, and it was no longer running when I was a child, but evidence of the tracks were still there. And then along Bell Boulevard, there was pretty much nothing from 26th Avenue to Fort Totten. There was an old hotel called the Bayside Lodge, and I actually have a fork with me that says Bayside Lodge on the back of it. And that was being torn down when I was a child. My parents were great walkers and we'd walk over all this area. So those are some of my memories. I do remember Fort Totten, which is still there, but when I was a child, there was still army there. It was an army base. And until recently it was. And [with] my dad, who had been an army officer, we'd sit on the stoop at night and he'd love to hear \"Taps.\" You'd hear \"Taps,\" I think it was at 10 o'clock because there was no construction, no buildings between us and Fort Totten. There was the Clearview Golf Course, and then the wetlands and the old farms. Later years we didn't hear it, once they started building, destroying that land and building homes. And I realize people need a place to live, but I just think of all the wildlife that was displaced.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=301.0,404.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: What can you tell me about your family? You mentioned that your dad came back from the war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=404.0,412.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: [My Dad, Captain William J. Hynes served in the 106 Engineers during WW II. He was captured by the German Army around St. Vith, Belgium during the first few days (December 16 – 19, 1944) of the Battle of the Bulge. He was held prisoner in various locations and prisoner of war camps until the end of the war (in Europe) in the Spring of 1945. I was born in February of 1945; at that time, my Dad was listed initially as ‘killed in action’, later as ‘missing in action’. Clarified by interviewee]. My mom's family lived in Astoria, so that's how I happened to be born in Astoria at Astoria Sanatorium, which was a maternity hospital. And my mother's mother came from Switzerland. The whole family came over. So my great grandparents came over from Switzerland and brought my grandmother. I don't think she was born here, maybe she was, yeah, I think maybe my grandmother was born here. I don't even remember. I don't even know that, I should know that. [My grandmother was born in Switzerland, corrected by interviewee]. I know that they lost a couple of children [two children, clarified by interviewee] and they blamed it on the voyage coming over. And they were buried in Potter's Field in St. Michael's [Cemetery]. My family had no money for graves, and even when I was a child, my grandmother would take me to St. Michael's Cemetery and ask me to look in Potter's Field. She said that graves were marked with crosses that had rotted away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=412.0,479.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: And she said, you have good eyesight. She'd say to me, see if you can find the graves, they would've been her siblings, but I never could. What else? All right, so my great grandparents eventually farmed in Astoria, and I have a photograph, I'll show it to you. We can't do much with it, but this was, he would be my great uncle [Charles Benz] with his horse [Babe]. And he died soon after this photo was taken of a ruptured appendix, which in those days was fatal, pretty much fatal. But that was his horse, Babe. He loved the horse. You see, there's a bow in the tail. He'd dress it up and was very proud of it. And they used it to bring vegetables into the market, first by ferry, my grandmother—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=479.0,535.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: I can see they look like in the photo, it looks like vegetable crates—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=535.0,538.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Crates for vegetables. And my grandmother said the Queensboro Bridge wasn't built until after, I don't know when it was built, but before it was built, they'd take vegetables on the ferry to either Wallabout Market or Harlem Market, I think Wallabout, maybe that was in Brooklyn. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right. And then there was a market in Harlem, and I think they put the whole wagon on this ferry barge with the horse and everything and bring it over across the river. And then in later years, they'd go across the Queensboro Bridge and the horse was frightened by a trolley car and hit, but he survived. He was never worked again, but they kept him. And by this time, Charlie was dead. That was my great uncle. But they had kept the horse, and it lived to be 32, my grandmother always said.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=538.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: So they lived on a farm in Astoria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=600.0,605.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: They had a farm. I think it was rented land. First he came over, my Great Grandfather [Lorenz Benz came over from Switzerland and] worked for Steinway as a gardener. And I don't know, maybe they were indentured. Did Steinway bring them over and then they had to work off the passage? I don't know. Those are things I don't know, but that's what I suspect. [My mother always said they worked for Steinways. Steinways brought them over and my Great Grandfather, Lorenz Benz, worked for Steinways as a gardener. Clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=605.0,629.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: That's a wonderful photo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=629.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Thank you. There are others I can show you. This was, I have one of my great grandfather. His name was Lorenz Benz. Lorenz, Lawrence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=630.0,644.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: And this is—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=644.0,646.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: It says on the bottom, Lorenz Benz on the farm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=646.0,650.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: And this was your mom's dad or your mom's—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=650.0,653.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Grandfather. That was my mom's Grandfather.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=653.0,654.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Grandfather. Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=654.0,657.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: And this was him as a younger man. Well, there's a better photograph. I think I have one of him as an older man. That, that's also the same man, it looks like about the same time. But here he is in his work clothes, and here he is dressed for the photo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=657.0,674.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: And I noticed that it says Astor Studio and it's 30 dot 20 Steinway Avenue Astoria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=674.0,683.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: They did— I do have a nice collection of photographs. I guess from time to time they went to the photographers and had portraits taken.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=683.0,692.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: It's interesting that it says Steinway Avenue because that's a, I know it's now a street, right? That must have been before— I wonder if that was before amalgamation or something, or before they changed. Really interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=692.0,707.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: That's Charles. Charlie, again, they always called him Charlie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=707.0,710.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: And Charlie was your great uncle?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=710.0,712.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: My great uncle. My mom's uncle. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=712.0,718.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: And there he is with the horse. The same horse, I guess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=718.0,721.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Yeah, that's the same horse. And this is a different horse, but that's him. I can tell. And it says on the back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=721.0,730.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: And these were taken in Astoria?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=730.0,733.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=733.0,734.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Wow. You'd never know it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=734.0,737.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: No, you'd never know it. Here's another one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=737.0,740.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: It looks rural.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=740.0,742.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Yeah, it was rural, but it's building up. I mean, you can see— where is that one [photo] with the horse rearing? You can see there are houses in the background that looked the same as some of the houses on the side streets in Astoria [still look].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=742.0,759.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=759.0,762.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So this was my grandfather and my mother, and that's in Astoria. And I think those are cranes in the background. I have other photographs with cranes and I don't know what could have been built. I don't know when Hell Gate Bridge was built.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=762.0,783.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Right. Well, I guess a lot of things were under construction, I guess then, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=783.0,786.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Well, my grandmother and grandfather talked about North Beach, which was the location where LaGuardia Airport is now, and it was an amusement park and there was an airstrip, and they courted there, so they went on dates. That's where my grandmother and grandfather kind of got to know each other and dated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=786.0,815.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Probably a romantic location then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=815.0,817.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Well, I guess it was by the water. It was an amusement park. I know my grandmother would've loved that. Even when I was a child, she loved to take me to, I don't know, along Northern Boulevard actually [toward Douglaston], there was a Kiddy City with rides, and I was never that interested as a child.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=817.0,835.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Was that the one that's now near Alley Pond Park? [Alley Pond Environmental Center is across Northern Boulevard from where Kiddy City used to be. Clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=835.0,839.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Yes, right there. Kiddy City.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=839.0,842.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Yeah, I heard about that from other people as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=842.0,847.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I was trying to read that, what was there, but I couldn't read it. But this looks like America, maybe that was the airstrip? That's Charles, and I guess those are his friends. I know he was engaged to be married, and then he died of this ruptured appendix. And I have a picture of his girlfriend, and there's a note that says she finally married someone else, which it's for the best, I suppose.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=847.0,883.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I'd like to know what's going on here too. Something's being constructed. And this, again, this is Charles, and I have a feeling that's the girlfriend next to him. So that's the Astoria family. And then my grandfather, they moved to Great Neck in approximately, right before the Depression, I guess in the late twenties. He was in construction. He actually went to Cooper Union and took courses so that he could do architecture [and read plans, blueprints. Clarified by interviewee]. And he wanted to know every phase of the building industry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=883.0,932.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: This was your grandfather?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=932.0,934.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: That was my mother's mother. So that was my grandfather. He was Nolan, Charles [DeMilt] Nolan. And then my grandmother was the Benz, and they were courting in Astoria. And my mother was born there, I know, and some of the children, my mother was born in 1911, and they didn't move to Great Neck until the twenties, so she really grew up in Astoria.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=934.0,959.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So that's, he bought a lot in Great Neck. And then the story I heard, and you wonder how much of these stories, you know, how family stories get repeated, but it was Depression era, and he had a small construction company and everybody went broke and bankrupt, and people were paying him off with loads of bricks and toilet fixtures. [I think he bought a lot in Great Neck. And during or right before the Depression Era he built a house at 48-09 Concord Avenue. Clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=959.0,987.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Very practical.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=987.0,989.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So he started building this house, which still exists, and my aunt owned it until 2017 when she died. And it's been sold, and I know the family appreciates it, and they really did a very nice job of bringing it up to date.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=989.0,1008.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: You did ask me about my family, and my mother's family did live in Astoria and I know we're doing a project for Queens, but I would just like to mention my father's family. His par— And my [Maternal] Grandmother was born in Switzerland. I was a little ambivalent about that, but it's interesting doing this because it prompts my memory. And after we talk, I think of things that we didn't cover. So for sure, my grandmother was born in Appenzell, Switzerland, which is a tiny town that I did visit, and her whole family immigrated here. And I know there were siblings who passed away soon after they arrived in America.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1008.0,1059.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: And then my father's parents both were born in Ireland, and they met here. They were from pretty far distance away from each other in Ireland. And I have visited both their farms and my grandfather, he told many stories about Ireland and about his early times here in New York. I will [not] go into all of those. He did mention the “No Irish Need Apply” issue, and he said when he came as a young man, he would walk the length of Manhattan day after day. And he said, wherever I went, it said, \"No Irish Need Apply.\" And finally, I won't go into it, but he did get some work and did very well for himself. Sent his two children [sons, clarified by interviewee] to college, to Fordham University. [His daughter, my Aunt Mary and my Godmother, did not go to college. She worked for N.Y.C. Social Services. Clarified by interviewee]. They [all] worked very hard and they did achieve. And my Maternal Grandmother was born in Appenzell, and all I know is my mother always talked about Steinway bringing them over here. So I did make reference to that. I assume that the Steinway family paid their passage and my great grandfather was a gardener for them for some time. I don't know how long, maybe paying off that passage. Those are things I'm not clear about. My mother would just say Steinways brought them over.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1059.0,1154.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: You mentioned also, and you showed me a picture of the Clearview Expressway construction, which is now just a few blocks from your home. What can you tell me about that, about the construction of the Clearview Expressway and the Throgs Neck Bridge, and how did it affect the neighborhood?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1154.0,1177.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Well, I think I was still in grammar school at the time, elementary school. I finished elementary school in 1958, and I think the Clearview was begun maybe 1957, 1956. I mean, we could look that up. I'm not sure of the dates. I know I was a child, and prior to that, there was open land between where I live and Fort Totten and down to the bay. The Throgs Neck Bridge wasn't built yet. The Cross Island was there. And, let me think. There were wetlands and flower farms where the expressway is now and where Bay Terrace shopping center is, and all of those high-rise buildings, they weren't there. The other side of Bell, that would be the east side of Bell, there was nothing. That was wetlands. I remember a little pond there, and we would walk down there. My parents were great walkers, and I just remember observing nature and always regret that that's gone. [There was a Sylvania Electric Building down there and the “Summer City Hall”, clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1177.0,1246.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So yeah, so they started the Clearview Expressway in the late fifties and the Throgs Neck Bridge. So little by little, all of that was bulldozed and, oh, I remember then I used to walk my neighbor's dogs when I was maybe 12, 13. And of course, all of a sudden you're walking in this cleared land instead of land that was trees and fields and wetlands. All of a sudden it was just mud when I walked down there with these dogs. And what else do I remember? I think there was a plan to actually demolish my housing development at some point, and then it was changed. So the expressway cut off part of the Clearview Golf Course, as I recall, I hope my memory is correct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1246.0,1305.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Alright, then that open land that I just talked about, and then there was a Bayside Golf Course, which was a private course between 26th Avenue and maybe 32nd Avenue. So they used part of that land, and then there were houses moved or demolished. I think people had the option of either having their house moved onto what was the Bayside Golf Course, or you could take an amount of money and they demolished your home and you went somewhere else. And I do remember as a child, the houses being moved and it would be a big event to actually watch a house [being moved]. They jacked it up, they put some kind of support under it, they put it on a flatbed truck. It was very interesting and exciting for us. We'd always spend at least a little time watching that. And then even now, I'll walk through what was the Bayside Golf Course, and I'll remember which houses were moved when I was a child.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1305.0,1371.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Oh, interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1371.0,1372.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Yeah. And then the bridge, yes, was built, and I do remember them driving piles into the wetlands and probably into the bay so that the supports for the bridge could be—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1372.0,1388.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: You're talking about the Throgs Neck Bridge?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1388.0,1389.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Yeah, the Throgs Neck Bridge. And probably, I don't know if it applied to the Clearview Expressway as well. That was wetlands. So a lot of it was, would you call it unstable ground? My grandfather was a contractor and there [were] areas around here that he said, “They'll never build there because it was wetlands.” And of course he was wrong. They somehow cleared it. They drove piles into the ground and they made it strong enough to support buildings. And yeah, I do remember that noise, which started, I think at eight in the morning, maybe seven. And they stopped around 10 [PM]. And it was this pound, pound, pound. They had some kind of machinery driving these big giant telephone poles into the ground. So that's a memory that I have.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1389.0,1447.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: When you say 10, do you mean 10 o'clock at night or 10 the morning?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1447.0,1451.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: At night. So you got to sleep between 10 and seven, or maybe it was 10 and eight. And these are my memories. I assume I'm correct. Memory can be faulty, and I don't remember how long that went on. And the construction was interesting to me, but also sad. I hated seeing the land go. And we used to have pheasants and rabbits and muskrats and all kinds of little animals, voles. I remember my father would talk about voles and moles that were in the lawn that were kind of interesting. We didn't mind them being there. So yes, it was just a lot of change that I guess happened over years. But it seems like yesterday to me that we had little farms and stands to sell vegetables. Different, different. I wish there were farms closer to us so that food wasn't trucked such a long way. I think it's nice to have open land and farmland closer to where you live.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1451.0,1532.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Where did you go to school, Frances?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1532.0,1535.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Well, I went to Saint Luke's in Whitestone [St. Luke School], Catholic school in Whitestone, Queens. And then I went to St. Helena High School in the Bronx and then to St. John's. And after St. John's, I got my master's at NYU and I also studied at the Art Students League. And where else? In Florence, Italy for a year. I wanted to learn life drawing, so I went to, it was called the School of Life Drawing in Florence, Italy at Accademia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1535.0,1573.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: When you attended elementary and high school, were those co-educational schools or—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1573.0,1579.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Elementary school was. Yeah, we had huge classes. My brother had over 90 in one of his first-grade or second-grade classes. I kind of remember 40 and 50, maybe up to 60, but so different from now. And I was very— my parents would always work with me on homework and stuff. And my dad especially, I remember in elementary school, I just couldn't get long division and he sat down with me one night and he did long division and I was just so proud of myself. And then the next day in school, I volunteered to do long division on the blackboard, so things like that. I also remember Roman numerals, which I doubt they even teach [now]. I was having trouble with that. And my dad sat down with me and showed me Roman numerals. I always got help at home. And I think children still need that. I think parents need to be involved in the education of their children and do homework with them. I know my Sister-in-Law always did homework with my nephews. So that's an aside.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1579.0,1666.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: How did you get interested in art and is it something you were always interested in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1666.0,1670.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I think I was always interested, but I never had the opportunity of having art classes. I remember—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1670.0,1679.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: They didn't teach that at the Catholic schools you attended?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1679.0,1681.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: No, nothing. I remember, I guess I kind of knew what an artist was. I remember sitting on my back stoop and I was maybe, I don't know if I was 9 or 11, and I had one of those old notebooks and I decided I was going to write my autobiography. And I don't know how long that lasted because there wasn't much to write. I was only nine years old, but we all had coloring books and I used to draw as well. And I just remember, I don't know how old I was, I showed my dad a coloring book that I had filled in, and I remember him saying he liked my drawings much better that I did without a coloring book. So that was kind of early encouragement. And my mom did crafts and things [including embroidery, hooked rugs, sewing, and images on copper. I still have them. Clarified by interviewee], so I always had that experience. I feel that I learned from my dad to do light carpentry and from my mom, I learned to sew and to cook [and do some crafts. I love to do gardening, and they both did gardening. I remember my Dad making a strawberry patch for me when I was a child. Clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1681.0,1744.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: And I think everyone should learn those skills even now. Gets you through life. And what else can I say? No, I'd never had art. Once in a while in elementary school, there would be a teacher that would, I don't know, let us draw for a few minutes. I remember once, and she must've been doing clerical work and she had us, she wanted us to make borders, and I did it. And I remember she said mine was very original, very unique, and the others just looked like the same as what she had put [the same sample she had displayed, clarified by interviewee]. And I remember thinking to myself, I want to make it different. And that's a compliment I always got about my art, that it was very unique and very original, even— so, no, I never had a painting class until I went to St. John's. That was my first class, and I felt immediately comfortable with it. And the same— drawing I did not feel so comfortable with. I remember being so nervous drawing that my hand would be shaking [but I kept at it and learned to draw very well, clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1744.0,1812.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: So you mentioned painting. Has that been your primary medium as an artist?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1812.0,1816.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Yes. Yes. I would say so. Painting, and I love to draw with a brush, not so much with a pencil or charcoal, although I do like to draw with a ballpoint pen sometimes. I want to mention one other thing. My mom had friends, their name was the Millers. And I remember Veronica Miller, the oldest of the three sisters, gave me this paint set. And I don't know how old I was. I think I must've been at least 12 or 14. So that was an early experience. She did paintings and I have one of hers, and they were kind of self-taught, very charming. And so that was kind of early encouragement that I got from this Veronica Miller. And they gave me and my brother, my brother and I, I suppose it should be, very thoughtful gifts. I remember them giving me a book about the constellations. And that got me very interested in stars. And I still have a lot of star imagery in my painting. And during COVID, it was 2020, I had a show at the Hudson River Museum of my Constellation works. Unfortunately, it opened and then immediately we had COVID, and they did extend it, but even extending it for over a year it was still COVID and not a lot of people got to see it. But there is a beautiful brochure. I should have brought it for you. I can do that another day. [The Curator at the Hudson River Museum found a copy of the book the Millers gave me when I was a child, Star Stories by Gertrude Chandler Warner, and she included it in the exhibition. Clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1816.0,1916.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Sure! Your art is an interesting mix of imagery and texts. So you would have drawings, but you would also, you have reflections, which were apparently journal entries. What can you say about that? What inspired it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1916.0,1935.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: What inspired that? Well, this'll be a roundabout way [to answer your question]. I have to go back a bit. I always had very good outlets for my art. I had good, well-respected galleries in the city [to represent my work]. And I always sold my work and showed my work in Manhattan. But I still did a lot of adjunct teaching and [had] visiting artist [appointments]. And a lot of times the teaching took up so much of my time. I had very little time to do my artwork, what I call my serious painting in the studio. So I tried to just, I could carry this little sketchbook around all the time and whenever I had even a few minutes, I could write or I could make drawings. So that's how that started. Just make, I used to call it just making art in the little bits and pieces of time I might've had in my day. And that might be, I remember making an entry about just waiting for the water to boil for my tea and I could sit down and do something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=1935.0,2010.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: And literally, there were times when that's all the time I had. So that's how that came about. And also the writing, a kind of desire to just kind of remember every day, which I feel I have a pretty ordinary life, but that everybody's ordinary life deserves some kind of acknowledgement. So that's part of the reason that I did that too. Where am I today? What am I doing? And trying to remember that we do forget so much. I mean, it's hard to remember what you had for breakfast or what you did yesterday. So I feel the diaries help me to remember what I've done. And doing that show that you mentioned here at St. John's, I reviewed a lot of the diaries and I went through and edited, and I'm amazed how much you do forget, one does forget. So I think it's not a bad idea for everyone to keep some kind of a diary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2010.0,2080.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: What other artists have influenced your work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2080.0,2084.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Oh, so many. It changes throughout the years. I think in my first years of painting at St. John's, and that was probably my first exposure, although my dad brought us to museums at least once. He brought us everywhere, at least once, the Statue of Liberty, the Metropolitan Museum of Art. So I did have some exposure. I can't say I did not. But here at St. John's, I began to really like the work of French painters, Cézanne, I guess just when there was that break from academic art to [a] more expressionist kind of approach to painting. So Van Gogh, Cézanne, Monet, I still love Monet. After Monet, I suppose Matisse, all of those artists of the late 1900s [1800s, corrected by transcript editor] into the 20th century. And then more recently, I've been really interested in the Chinese recluse painters. There's a section in the Met with Asian art and I love to go there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2084.0,2168.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: It's quiet. There's a whole room of Buddhas. I just love to sit there with the Buddhas. And they're quieter places, like the Met has gotten so very, very busy. When I went first with my dad and also my aunt [my Aunt May, my Dad’s sister and my Godmother, clarified by interviewee], one of my aunts used to take me there, it would be empty. You'd be the only person in some of the galleries. So that's changed a lot. I still like to find quiet places at the Met. So more recently I've come to really appreciate American art. So a lot of them—Winslow Homer, Ryder; and less well-known, Arthur Dove, Rockwell Kent, who painted on Monhegan. I saw a YouTube program just last week on Georgia O'Keeffe. That was excellent. I forgot the name of it, but it's in my book if anyone's curious [Georgia O’Keeffe, By Myself, film by Allen Charlton, clarified by interviewee]. So this was a YouTube that was less well known. I had seen other films about her, but this one touched on a lot of things that I was unaware of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2168.0,2239.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So her life interests me. And Joseph Cornell lived right on Utopia [Parkway, in Auburndale/Flushing]. I could have walked to his house and I wish I had introduced myself. I think I was too shy in those days to just knock on an artist’s door and say, I really like your art. I'd like to meet you. But I kind of wish I had done that. So I'm reading this book, Utopia Parkway, and it's the life of Joseph Cornell. And it's written by Deborah Solomon, and it's really great. And I wish more people knew about the work of Joseph Cornell, and I wish that his house was preserved by some nonprofit. It could be torn down. And I think that would be a shame. And other areas like Nyack, New York, and actually he [Joseph Cornell] was born in Nyack, but Nyack has the house of [American artist] Edward Hopper and they preserve it. It's a study center. They do shows there. That should be done with Joseph Cornell's house. It should be preserved [as a study center, clarified by interviewee]. You should be able to learn something about him and they could have community shows there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2239.0,2311.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Right. It sounds like St. John's really helped shape you as an artist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2311.0,2319.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Yes, I'm very happy to have been a student here. It was a beginning art department. I was one of the first classes. And in my class, I think there were only two or three students. And there may have been one student that graduated the semester before I graduated with these two or three students. And the year after me, there were about 12 [students]. So I got a lot of individual attention, which I needed—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2319.0,2351.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: A lot more than in [crosstalk]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2351.0,2356.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Elementary school. [crosstalk]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2356.0,2359.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Right. In high school we had in the forties, so a little better than elementary school. But no, St. John's was a good experience. [Students in the Art Department enjoyed classes with very small numbers, clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2359.0,2375.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: What did they teach you about? Was it mainly, did you mainly do painting, take painting classes? Is that mostly what you did?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2375.0,2382.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I had a 42-credit major, which is a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2382.0,2385.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: In Fine Arts?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2385.0,2385.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: In fine arts. And it was because I think my advisor, I was really in the School of Ed [Education], so I needed to get my certification for teaching. And I think she was nervous that we wouldn't get enough credit for this certification. And I have a feeling we took a lot more art than we needed to, closer to what a BFA [Bachelor of Fine Arts] would get. But yeah, I took painting classes, drawing classes, design, all of those are basic foundation classes for anybody studying fine arts. I did take sculpture. I think I took 3D Design. I took art history. And I had teachers that weren't real well known as artists, but they certainly exposed us to galleries in New York City and museums. I remember my painting teacher taking us in, and I think it was an evening, to the Museum of Modern Art. The Museum of Modern Art was free on Thursday nights, and it was very small then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2385.0,2462.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: It's had, I think two times where it was renovated and rebuilt, and now it's enormous. I think of it as like Bloomingdale's with these escalators and floors. But when I first knew it, it was very small, like going to someone's home. And I do remember in particular the Matisse room, which was like being in someone's living room and you were surrounded by Matisse paintings, and there was a big sofa that you could sit on and just contemplate the work, which is, I think it should be. Now it's more of a people mover, rushing people out. You can't get too close to the work. [coughs] Excuse me. But yeah, in those days, it was a great experience. And also, I remember when I got old enough to drive into the city. Again on Thursday night, I would drive into the Museum of Modern Art at 6:00 PM. You could park right in front of the museum and go in for free and spend the evening there. And then later on, a little further down 53rd, there was a municipal parking garage. I think it was 10 cents an hour. So if you miss the 6:00 PM [street parking] and it got filled up, or maybe at some point they canceled that, you could go to this municipal garage and park and walk back to the museum. And you could drive into the city [from Bayside, where I lived]. It only took about a half hour. And I think I took Northern Boulevard and the Queensboro Bridge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2462.0,2568.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So yeah, the whole city has gotten much more congested than I remember it in every way, [including the trip] from my neighborhood in Bayside to Manhattan [and] to going upstate. Everything is—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2568.0,2583.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Certainly a lot more cars nowadays.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2583.0,2585.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Absolutely. And a lot more people too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2585.0,2591.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Did your artwork—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2591.0,2592.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So St. John's, yeah, that's all I can say. That we went to museums, which I think is a very important education for anybody who's going to study art. And we were sent to galleries of contemporary art shows. And I think that's another thing that's very important. People, students need to know what's going on now and also what's going on in the past [students need to be aware of the art of the past, clarified by interviewee]. I always told my art students that their best teachers were the great artists of the past, and they had to look at great art. So—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2592.0,2637.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: You mentioned that you got a degree in education. Were you a teacher?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2637.0,2644.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I was a teacher. Just going back, women at St. John's at that time were not permitted in the College on this campus. So I remember wanting to go to St. John's College and study humanities, but I could only go to the School of Education. I believe if I went to Brooklyn, for some reason, they allowed women in the College because later on, I had friends studying here who started at the Brooklyn campus, and they got BA’s [Bachelors of Arts degrees] in humanities. So things were a little different then. Also just the way we dressed, you had to, you couldn't wear pants, you had to wear a skirt. We wore knee socks and loafers. That was kind of the uniform, knee socks and those penny loafers and usually skirt and blouse and a sweater. And men had to wear ties, suits and ties. So it was very formal and very different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2644.0,2709.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: And this was in the 1950s or 60's?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2709.0,2712.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: No, St. John's, I started in 1962, 1962 to 1966. And even when I graduated, there was that dress code. And I'm glad, I'm glad it's more casual now, but it was different. Everything was different. In the fifties, I mean, women wore hats and gloves. They were still wearing, if you went to the city, you wore your hat and your gloves and you didn't go— nobody, very few people wore pants. It was just becoming stylish and acceptable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2712.0,2752.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: What else do you remember about St. John's at that time? How was the campus different?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2752.0,2755.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: It was a much smaller place. This had been a golf course, I think it was called Hillcrest Golf Course. So there was St. John's Hall and the art department was there [in St. John’s Hall], and then there was this library [where we are seated at the moment], St. Augustine. There was the science building. What's that? I forget.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2755.0,2776.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: St. Albert Hall?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2776.0,2777.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: St. Albert's. And of course Alumni Hall, but I think that's been rebuilt and renovated, if I'm not mistaken. But Alumni Hall for the basketball. There was a swimming pool that was really fantastic. I'm sorry they got rid of that. And when I was here, the four years that I was here, they built Marillac and the Vincentian Hall was here. The Chapel was in one of the other buildings. I don't remember which one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2777.0,2812.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Yeah, so it was very different. There were no dorms. Everybody commuted, and any students who were out of state had to find housing nearby. So what else? That was about it, I guess. I mean, I did have a good time going to basketball games. I enjoyed that aspect of St. John's and my friends were all in the art department. Otherwise it's a huge university. You have to find some kind of a little group within such a big university. And at that time, a lot of students joined sororities or fraternities. I don't even know if, I think they still exist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2812.0,2856.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: To a degree, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2856.0,2858.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: But I had my own little group within the art department, and between two or three in my year, and then the year behind me was about 12, those were basically my friends. And I think studio classes, a lot of classes were two credits, and that was very difficult. You still got a paper [you had to write a paper for each class, clarified by interviewee] and you did just as much work as you did for a three credit course, but you had to do it [for] two credits. And yeah, that's about it. It was a good place to be. And the art department was a good place for me because it was so small and I needed that attention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2858.0,2911.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Do you remember any specific professors? Did you have any one that you remember in particular?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2911.0,2919.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I guess I remember all of them. Professor Edward Manetta, who was my painting teacher, my first painting teacher. And he was very emotional and loved painting. And we had him as a role model [he was a good role model, clarified by interviewee]. Somebody with that love of painting and dedication to art and to teaching. And what else can I say? There was a Professor Navin, who taught sculpture, and I remember him setting up appointments for us as a group [setting up appointments for our class, clarified by interviewee] to visit well-known sculptors in New York City and go to [contemporary art] galleries. And there wasn't a lot of sculpture around. Painting was always more dominant and probably still is. Although now they have installation art, which wasn't something that was done when I was in school. So there was Professor Manetta and Professor Navin, and I had an art history teacher named Diane David, I think she's still around. She may teach at Columbia. And she just instilled in us such a love of the Italian Renaissance and pre-Italian Renaissance. [I remember our textbook, Painting in Florence and Sienna After the Black Death, and it was difficult to find, and no internet to search. Clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2919.0,2999.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I couldn't wait to go to Florence and see the work firsthand. So I guess those are the three people that I would single out. Father Lonergan was a painter. He did teach some classes, but I don't remember which ones. I think he taught art history [and] Intro to Art, maybe something like that. And he was director of the libraries at that time and started the St. John's University Art Department. So that was interesting. We had a fine arts club, we called it, I think. And we would get together and go to the theater in New York City as well as museums and different things connected with art, fine arts. So that's all I can say. I guess those were the people that I remember most. There was a Dolores Cranford, and unfortunately she took sick before I graduated, but she taught, I remember jewelry design I think was her class, and ceramics [Dolores Cranford taught jewelry design and ceramics, clarified by interviewee].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=2999.0,3074.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Those were the people that I remember in particular. I'm trying to think. Were there any others? I know there was another teacher who came on after I was a freshman and he taught design, I don't even remember his name. But we had plenty of space. The painting studio was on the fifth floor of St. John's Hall, which first were Torch [St. John's University's student newspaper] offices and then it became the painting studio. I think it, I don't know, oh, now I think it's like a design studio or something. I was up there. I forget what classes were up there. Maybe printmaking. I don't remember. So that's probably more information than you expected.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3074.0,3121.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: No, it's all great. What words of advice would you give young artists today?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3121.0,3126.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I'll just say again, I studied fine arts and I'm a painter, and I think a lot of students coming along now are more concerned about how to earn a living [which is important, clarified by interviewee]. So they're studying, I don't know, computer graphics and [graphic] design and different things that will somehow give them a living [different things that will earn them a living, clarified by interviewee]. I wanted to study painting. So my advice [to] students, the few students out there who are studying painting or sculpture, I think, go to museums as often as you can. And if you live in the New York area, you're absolutely blessed to have the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Museum of Modern Art, the Brooklyn Museum. They all have samples of great art and great art throughout the centuries, going back eras. So look at as much art as you possibly can, and then also be aware of what's going on in contemporary art. So go to the galleries. And in New York, there are all kinds of seminars and talks where artists sit around and discuss their work. And at this point in my life, I find it boring, but I thought it was great when I was a young painter to just be around other artists and to figure out how they're thinking and why they're doing what they're doing. So I would say [do] that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3126.0,3229.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Read biographies of other artists. That always interested me. You'd always think in your twenties, I want to be an artist, but am I an artist? So if you read a biography of Joseph Cornell or Georgia O'Keeffe, or read letters of Vincent Van Gogh, one of my drawing teachers at St. John's, Tony Giordano, suggested that book to us. And I still have it and I still enjoy reading it. The actual writing of artists is very interesting and a very good education. So a lot of stuff that it's not only classroom learning and doing assignments, but do a lot of this on your own. And hopefully teachers will suggest a lot of this and make an assignment to go to the Met.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3229.0,3283.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: When I was teaching, I taught at LaGuardia Community College for a long time as an adjunct, but I was there, I don't know how long, I think more than 10 years. And one of my classes was Intro to Art, which is a lot of art history. And another teacher clued me in, she said, use the guidebook from the Met as a text, which I did. And I was fortunate that most of my students could actually meet me at the Met during their class time. So I'd do one week in the class, in the studio reviewing what we might look at at the Met the following week. So every other week I'd actually meet them at the Met. And I have to say, I got a lot of good feedback about the class from my students and from my advisors and directors at the college. And I think if possible, it's a good way to approach an art class or an art history class. So what else I can say, yeah, I taught as an adjunct and I did visiting artists [taught as a visiting artist, clarified by interviewee] in a lot of different places, and that was a great experience because I got to live in places and get to know them, not as a tourist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3283.0,3374.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: So I was a visiting artist in Illinois, in Michigan, in Finland. I taught in Ireland for one semester at an art college. I was a visiting artist in Memphis, Tennessee. I taught for a year in Savannah, Georgia. So it was a way to get to know especially different areas of the U.S. as, not as a tourist, [but] as someone living there. And I appreciate that experience. I think so many people in New York haven't seen a lot of their own country. I never did until a certain point in my life. When I finished my education, I wanted to see all these great paintings that I'd seen in books. So I wanted to go to Europe, and I went to all the major cities in Europe, and I basically went to the museums. And then later in life, I decided, well, what's in Boston? I've, I've never been to the Boston Museum of Fine Art, and it's so close to home. Or what's at the National Gallery in Washington? So I started making trips to cities around the U.S. and still going to museums.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3374.0,3453.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Great. Anything else you want to talk about that I haven't asked you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3453.0,3459.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Well, I think just big memories of big looming incidents in my life. I was here, I was a sophomore at St. John's when Kennedy was assassinated, so I remember that. And then later on there was 9/11 and the pandemic. And then I remember my parents and grandparents and their big memories of their lives were, going from forward to back, World War II, the Great Depression. And there was another pandemic around 1916 that—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3459.0,3498.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: The Spanish Flu—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3498.0,3499.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: The Spanish Flu, and they called it the Spanish flu, which now I guess is politically incorrect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3499.0,3505.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: They understand that it actually originated in Kansas or somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3505.0,3509.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: I don't know. But I guess the first cases [identified] came out of Spain. I don't know how that happens. I mean, Lyme disease was Lyme, Connecticut. But anyway, during COVID, I was curious, and I did a comparison on the computer of the span, the pandemic of 1916 compared to COVID. And I think the one in 1916 was far worse. The population of the world was so much smaller and the percentage of people killed was much greater. So, interesting, that's all. I think there's so much history we forget so quickly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3509.0,3558.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Well, thank you very much, Frances.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3558.0,3559.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: My pleasure. I don't know if there's anything else. So I think we covered all your questions, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3559.0,3570.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: I think we're good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3570.0,3571.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Good. Very good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3571.0,3573.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: Thank you for providing such rich detail about your life and your experiences.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3573.0,3578.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: Oh, thank you. It's been my pleasure. I hope someone finds it interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3578.0,3584.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ben Turner: I'm sure they will. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3584.0,3585.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835/transcript/67822/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frances Hynes: All right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/21/collection_resources/129685/file/242835#t=3585.0,3586.61225"}]}]}]}