{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/2z12n4zx10/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Dr. Frank Warren Oral History"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 1:  \u003c/strong\u003eDr. Warren talks about his decision to become a professor at Queens College.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 2:  \u003c/strong\u003eDr. Warren discusses changes in the student body over his years at Queens College.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 3: \u003c/strong\u003e Dr. Warren talks about working with Jon Peterson in the History department. \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eDr. Frank Warren was a Professor in Queens College’s History department for 50 years, beginning in 1962. Upon his retirement in 2012, he had served as chair of the department for 18 years. In this interview, he recalls some of the historic moments of his time at the college, including the anti-war and civil rights protests that led to the student takeovers of several campus buildings in 1969. He also discusses the changes he’s seen in the student body over the decades, issues of diversity among the faculty, and some of the colleagues he’s worked with, including Dr. Jon Peterson. \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eVideo: \u003c/strong\u003e Photo montage created for Dr. Warren's retirement from full-time teaching in 2012.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["This interview is a later addition to those collected as part of the Queens College Spring 2013 History 392W Oral History Seminar taught by Prof. Bobby Wintermute, for the college's 75th Anniversary Oral History Project."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["1962-2016 (bulk) (temporal)","Queens College, Flushing, Queens, NY (spatial)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2016-05-09 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. Frank Warren (Interviewee)","Santiago Lozada (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio","Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["http://digitalarchives.queenslibrary.org/search/browse/41016"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 1:\u0026nbsp; \u003c/strong\u003eDr. Warren talks about his decision to become a professor at Queens College.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 2:\u0026nbsp; \u003c/strong\u003eDr. Warren discusses changes in the student body over his years at Queens College.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eClip 3:\u0026nbsp;\u003c/strong\u003e Dr. Warren talks about working with Jon Peterson in the History department.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eSummary of Full Interview\u003c/strong\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eDr. Frank Warren was a Professor in Queens College\u0026rsquo;s History department for 50 years, beginning in 1962. Upon his retirement in 2012, he had served as chair of the department for 18 years. In this interview, he recalls some of the historic moments of his time at the college, including the anti-war and civil rights protests that led to the student takeovers of several campus buildings in 1969. He also discusses the changes he\u0026rsquo;s seen in the student body over the decades, issues of diversity among the faculty, and some of the colleagues he\u0026rsquo;s worked with, including Dr. Jon Peterson.\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eVideo:\u0026nbsp;\u003c/strong\u003e Photo montage created for Dr. Warren's retirement from full-time teaching in 2012.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCC BY-NC-SA\u0026nbsp;Contact digitalarchives@queenslibrary.org for research and reproduction requests.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Queens Public Library"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/010/original/Aviary_QPLlogo_192x192.png?1578574261","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/096/279/small/FRANK.jpg?1597831473","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96279","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 5 - 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I'm here with Frank Warren, former professor and chairperson of the history department here at Queens College. Frank, can you introduce yourself, please, and tell us a bit about your history here at Queens College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3.81,23.19"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm Frank Warren. I came to Queens College in 1962 as an assistant professor and you know worked my way up the ladder to full professor, and then later [was] elected chair and remained chair for six [three-year] terms until I retired in 2012. And I don't know if you want to go into what other activities?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=23.93,51.649"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e You said, you're still an adjunct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=54.33,55.679"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=55.98,56.442"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, what do you, how many days a week and what are you teaching?.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=56.443,58.77"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I teach every other semester. I basically, I teach History 265, which is the 1920s and 1930s in the United States. I have taught, I did teach one semester a small seminar on the 1950s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=59.0,76.18"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e What type of seminar was...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=76.57,78.108"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Within the 1950s, and the kind of cultural and social intellectual history of the 1950s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=78.131,86.729"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm aware that in the 1950s, McCarthyism was very strong. Did you? Did you have any type of class with that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=87.36,94.65"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, we did. We started off actually with the movie Point of Order, which is a movie about McCarthy and the Senate hearings that McCarthy had. And we read well we read various writers of the 1950s, some conservative, some liberal, some radical. And we saw some movies of the 1950s. And so you know we start, actually started off with Point of Order.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=94.71,122.639"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e I know there is a movie right now called the, what is it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=123.33,125.398"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Hail Caesar?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=127.39,128.39"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e No Bridge of Spies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=128.61,130.079"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Bridge of Spies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=130.229,131.229"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Have you seen that movie?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=131.23,132.154"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I haven't seen the movie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=132.155,133.1"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e With Tom Hanks. And he goes to Soviet Russia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=133.101,136.58"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Switching spies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=137.159,138.159"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Are there any movies you like, like that in the 50s? What kind of movies did you show as far as.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=138.93,143.619"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, there were, no, let's see, we showed Rebel Without a Cause, which is about youthful disaffection and alienation in the 50s, we saw The Caine Mutiny, which was a kind of popular movie in the 50s. But as elements of politics in the sense of, you know, authority and what, what authority should we accept, we saw The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit, which was a term in the 50s which was associated with suburbia and people working in the organizations, big organizations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=143.68,187.939"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=188.14,188.665"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And, let me think, I'm not sure, we may have seen one other one, I can't...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=188.666,193.602"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e And as far as literature goes, I believe I don't know, in the 50s, if you could correct me if I'm wrong. I think like the beatnik era","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=194.95,202.338"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e You're right. We read, we read Jack Kerouac On the Road and the Allan Ginsberg's poem Howl. We read The Catcher in the Rye, which a lot of students had already read in high school, it came out in the 1950s  And, uh, I think those were the pieces of literature we read, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=202.63,226.05"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And then we read selections, not the whole thing, selections from William Buckley, God and Man at Yale, who is [was a] conservative writer. We read Irving Howe article about the conformity of the 50s, which is more on the left. We read C. Wright Mills, selections of the Power Elite, which is a term that came of. One of the things we're trying to see is how much of the of the 50s are known as a kind of age of conformity and kind of conservatism. But there was this literature of dissent and then we wanted to see how much of it played into the 60s in terms of the image of American society that the young radicals adopted in the 60s. But a lot of it was formed in the 1950s with The Power Elite and The Organization Man, and that, you know, of conformity and accepting authority and, we read Paul Goodman's Growing Up Absurd, which is about lack of meaningful work, people turning out products that are useless and built-in obsolescence and how can you take any pride in that? So a lot of that feeds into the images of the 60s where they're protesting against the system, it's kind of one of the themes of the course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=226.93,316.369"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. Interesting. That's really interesting because I know you can tell Professor Wintemute. He told me that one of your highlights here at Queens College was during the Vietnam War and how you had, he had told me, that you you sided with the students here in protest, I believe in Kiely Hall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=317.33,335.37"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Eventually, they started right here in Powdermaker.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=336.29,338.719"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e In Powdermaker?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=339.08,339.838"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, the first, the first demonstrations, the first was taking over the first floor of Powdermaker. The Dean of Students office was there at that time and the students really didn't take over the whole building, but they took over that, that first floor. I mean it was different, Powdermaker. It didn't look quite the same. There was -- but essentially the first floor, which is classrooms now, that was all the Dean of Students office was down there and they took over that and the Dome, they kind of took over the Dome, where they held their meetings. And then, then following that,  came the student arrests where the police ordered them out of the building. And those who didn't come out of the building were arrested, and then, but that only escalated the protest. And then it eventually went into taking over Kiely. Ah, but, you want me to go into the protests a little?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=339.839,383.596"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=394.694,395.694"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it started really with, uh, with GE recruiting on campus, and GE was associated, General Electric, was associated with the war, turning out war products. And so some of the SDS students kind of escorted the GE, people who had come to campus to speak with [recruit for] GE, they kind of escorted them off campus. And the students were then put on trial, you know, student disciplinary trial.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=396.305,432.846"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Can you, I'm sorry to cut you off, can you elaborate what SDS is?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=434.16,436.245"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e SDS was  the Students for Democratic Society. It was started, well, it originally was the student organization of the Socialist Party, but it split off, I can't remember the exact date. It was, I think, the beginning of the 60s, split off and went in its own direction, so it's kind of independent. And that was kind of the, they had started, a lot of the people who had founded it had been associated with the civil rights movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=436.629,466.55"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=466.82,467.551"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Uh, they had a lot of projects in the north in the, in the ghettos of the north and Newark in various places, they had projects where they [were] trying to work with the community. And then as the Vietnam War escalates, they become more and more so involved in the war. Originally, they were more domestic and focusing on civil rights, on the black communities in the north. Then as the war escalates, they come involved. And so it was kind of a center of student protest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=467.552,500.99"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e I see that. As far as that, you're talking about the civil rights movement. Was that like a big deal here on campus, as far as like the diversity of the students or how.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=501.32,510.879"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well in terms of the student population, in the early 60s, when I came, the minority population was minuscule. Sure, I mean, I had I taught four classes and I think I had one black student in the class. And I don't, I don't recall any Hispanic students, there may have been one. But then, I can't remember the exact year. But in the mid 60s, they -- the college -- began the SEEK program, which was focused on minority students who hadn't been given the opportunity. And so you had the SEEK program and then you had the, you know, the rise of the civil rights movement and then the rise of black nationalism. And so there was a, there was [were] the SEEK protests was [which were] going on at the same time as the anti-war protests in '69. But they were on kind of separate tracks because that stage of the black protest movement was dominated by the black nationalists who didn't who didn't favor a lot of interaction with the, with the white students. They wanted to do their own thing, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=510.91,581.6"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e The Black Panther Party.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=582.039,582.942"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And yeah, the Panthers. And, but while the civil rights movement was starting, a number of students from Queens went south. You probably know of Andrew Goodman, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=582.943,595.76"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Not really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=597.7,598.419"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, Andrew Goodman was involved. They were involved in the voter registration projects of SNCC, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, which [was] one of the active direct action black organizations in the South. And Andrew Goodman was a Queens student, and he was, along with Michael Schwerner and James Chaney, Schwerner was another northerner, and James Chaney was a black Mississippian. They were murdered in the south. And that's, you know, the, the tower that at the library is named after Andrew Goodman, the Goodman Tower. [Goodman-Chaney-Schwerner Tower] So Queens students went and he wasn't the only one, but at least one was actually murdered in the south. And, and so there were a lot of, a lot of kind of  one day demonstrations. And then when Martin Luther King was assassinated, there was a kind of spontaneous kind of coming out of class and not. But it didn't last, which was just kind of a day of protest. So there was protests going on earlier. There was, students had protested at the World's Fair in 1963, I guess, in Queens, in Flushing for the lack of, I guess, opportunity for blacks to be hired and things of that kind of thing. So there was activity on campus going on in the, throughout the '60s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=598.42,659.425"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And then again, when the Vietnam War escalates, that does kind of take over but a number of the SDS students had been involved in the civil rights movement, some had gone south. So in any case, the GE people, were escorted off campus, the students were put on disciplinary trial, found guilty, but a number of students, not [only] SDS, but a number of people felt they didn't get a fair trial and they began protests. And so they take over this building, demanding that the charges be dropped against these students,.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=704.23,744.082"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Faculty doing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=744.083,744.797"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e No, these are students, and students, and there were a couple of faculty involved originally, but not, I was on sabbatical when it first started, I would explain, and the second [demand], there was a radical professor in the English department that had been not rehired and they demanded the rehiring of, by the name of Sheila Delaney.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=744.974,770.26"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And there was one other [demand], there was a report that, called the Max Kahn Report, which made it secret why people were denied being rehired or denied tenure and they wanted, Max Kahn report, wanted those reasons to become public, not just, uh, and there was one other one, I can't, I think it was four original demands. So I was on sabbatical and we were [I was] going in the public library every day, and one weekend, my best friend at that time, a professor in the history department named Mike Wreszin, called me up at home and said, look, there's an activity coming, doing, and he was one of the people involved in staying over with the students, because the students were sleeping in the corridors and staying [unclear] cause...And he was one of the one or two faculty members actually staying over with them. He called me up and said, you know, I might want to come down. Well, my parents were visiting, I said, when my parents leave, I'll come down. So Sunday afternoon, I came down and listened to the students, you know, just listened to the, you know, didn't do any...And then that night was when the police came. I went home after listening that night, when the police came and they ordered the students and faculty who were there out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=772.08,855.535"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=856.68,857.205"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And 30 some students and one faculty member, a member of the English department stayed in and they were the ones who were arrested. And then, the faculty element becomes focused a lot on, demanding the charges, that the college go and drop, because they are the ones that had made the charges, that they drop these, now they're arrest charges. And so that's really where I was, a lot of involvement with this faculty group, like, trying to think of the name of it, but which really was supporting the students, but the main focus at that time was getting these charges dropped.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=857.206,908.98"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=909.05,909.575"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And we, you know, signed petitions. We went to meetings of the president's council and, but they wouldn't drop the charges, the president wouldn't drop the charges. He got into this thing, you know, 'I know, know the students are standing up for what they believe in, but I wouldn't feel, it would be unmanly of me to drop the charges.' It can be almost psychological. But they wouldn't. And eventually that summer, they, they went to trial. They and the, they were found guilty. The students and the faculty member was [were] charged, went to Rikers Island for, I  forget, about three weeks of [unclear]. But the women, they didn't send them to prison, they, but they fined them several thousand dollars. So that summer, I and a few other faculty, we were trying to raise money to pay for these student [unclear]. But in the meantime, after the arrest, the next day, swarms of students came into Powdermaker and then, but nothing seemed to be happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=909.576,956.617"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e The charges weren't dropped. They wouldn't, nobody would negotiate. And so the students decided to escalate and they went into Powdermaker [Kiely]. And took over the floor, Powdermaker [Kiely] and several of the offices. And there were some some faculty who were defending the files. They didn't want the students to get at the personnel files. They were defending them up on the 12th and 13th floor [of Kiely]. So they had to have pulleys of food go up to the faculty defending them. And we, you know, we tried, still tried to get the charges dropped. And at one stage they decided they would negotiate. But there was a public negotiations in which sits there, it's the faculty where, not, the faculty cafeteria on the right where the president's conference room is. I don't know if you've been on that, [unclear].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=986.84,1027.51"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e No I haven't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1051.619,1052.291"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, down there where there's a student caf here and then there's, right now, there's some presidential conference room here. But right, it was kind of open space there. And they were negotiating about, you know, getting in the, the Dean of Students, the acting Dean of Students. So I guess, you know, I guess it was [an administration] a faculty group negotiated on one side. And then there was the other group, my friend. Mike Wreszin was one of the negotiators on the other side.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1052.292,1084.22"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Did it, did the protest ever turn violent or was it always just --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1084.36,1087.874"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the SEEK part of it. There were some. Well, not physically violent and beating up people or anything like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1088.14,1094.348"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e With the cops, I mean, I know their emotions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1094.45,1097.486"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e No, when the SEEK people would overturn some of the files in the cat, in the library at that time, it wasn't our library, it was over where the English department, Klapper Hall was the college library, and they kind of demonstrated in there. Now where the college, when finally the college called the police again against both the SEEK protesters as it was happening in a different part of the campus and that [unclear], no, they came out all peacefully at that time. And then what, what happened, one of the big things was, because nothing had been won. We wanted to do something that had some, something, so the faculty, not all the students, can't go into all the differences within SDS. There were different factions in SDS, there was a kind of, kind of well, a kind of original SDS people, but then there was some Maoist who came in, and then there was a group called the Labor Committee, which was very kind of theoretically Marxist, with a lot of internal things were going on,  but when they when they disbanded from Kiely, it was very close to the end of the semester, and so several of the faculty, with cooperation from some of the SDS people, but not really the Maoists, they thought this was just kind of liberal, we organized a counter commencement in which we would get an anti-war speaker, but we would also walk out of the major commencement. And so we organized, and got, I don't know, it's 30, 40 faculty members, most of them young faculty members. And we all came to the commencement and at a certain stage, my role was to stand up, and at that stage, they knew we were going to, we walked out and people were shouting out, go back to Russia! We walked out and we went to, over, do you know where Rathaus is?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1098.039,1183.544"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1183.545,1184.028"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Behind that, there was there was a kind of open amphitheater. They've done something to it now, but I don't know, I haven't been over there to see it, but it was kind of open amphitheater. And we had gotten Dr. Spock, who was a big anti-war activist to be our anti-war speaker.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1228.05,1245.6"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e He came?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1248.07,1248.637"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e He came. I had a new baby that I had, so I know. So I introduced her to that, she didn't know, she was only a few months old.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1248.638,1259.974"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh wow. That's very cool.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1260.09,1261.09"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e When we went to lunch with him afterwards, and he gave an anti-war speech and some of the students spoke and Mike Wreszin and some of the faculty members spoke and got a lot of publicity. And, and then the next year, that was 69, the next year, they were afraid that we would walk out again, so they moved the commencement for that year to Madison Square Garden. But we went and we said, we demanded an anti-war speaker. So they agreed that, not to substitute an anti-war for their speaker they had chosen, but they could [would] add an anti-war speaker, so we got Howard Zinn. I don't know if you know, Howard Zinn is a historian who is very active, was a very activist historian. A lot of people use his textbook. It's a very controversial textbook because it's about history from below and it's about, you know, not looking at, from the.politicians or from the slave owners, but trying to look at it from the point of view of the slaves, of the workers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1261.17,1308.406"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1323.865,1324.865"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And things of that kind. So we got Howard Zinn. And he gave an anti-war speaker, speaker at the [commencement] convention. But I mean, I was, I was, you know, I was one of the main faculty people, but I wasn't, I mean, Mike Wreszin was there with his students and a couple of other faculty with the students. But, in organizing the faculty, I was, you know, I, there were four, kind of four, Mike Wreszin was kind of a charismatic speaker and, and then there was a professor in economics that's retired now, named Professor [Ray] Franklin. He was kind of the strategist for the, for the faculty, for, you know, what the faculty should be doing next. And then there was a professor in Political Science named Sol Resnick, he was a kind of organizer. He was a, he was the guy who told you, you know, we have to do this, we have to, once that strategy was decided. And then he would offer to tell me, you're the guy that got to do that. So we wanted faculty to sign up to participate in the counter commencement. So I had to sit in front of the cafeteria gathering signatures. You know, as faculty came in, you know, 'would you like to sign up?' And so I, I was, I was the guy to do the shit work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1324.87,1415.661"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e But there's always that aspect. But he was a, he was a great, he had this, organizer, one time  there was a group of faculty, not all, mostly sympathetic, but not al,  going to meet at an apartment in the city. And Sol Resnick said to me, you got to come in and, being, participate in this. I, I, you know [said], I'm here all day, I have to drive into the city, to drive out to the Island. I know, you know, other voices. 'No, you gotta come in, you gotta come in'. I came in, I said one sentence the whole evening and and when he got up, I said one sentence all evening, and I said to Sol afterwards,  you made me come in for this?. \"But that was the most important sentence.' It wasn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1419.03,1466.463"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you know what he [you] said?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1467.46,1468.384"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know what I said, but that was that was, he, he was. He could get people somehow. He could get people to organize the students too. He had a great impact on a lot of students","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1468.385,1475.729"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you, did you ever live in the city or have you always been out [on the Island]?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1481.04,1483.99"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I. Well, I lived in the city when I was a 3 years old, 4 years old. I lived in Queens when I first came. I lived a, very walking distance [from the campus], I lived off Jewel Avenue, and you drive from the campus over to Forest Hills. There is [are] a number of apartment complexes. I lived there for four years from '62 to '66 and then we moved to the Island.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1484.76,1508.88"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e So I'm going to backtrack here from all of us to get bearings on you in general. But what were you doing or what, before coming to Queens College? What was your, where did you go to...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1510.2,1523.151"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I was a graduate student, an undergraduate at Rutgers. I was a graduate student at Brown. I was in American Studies. In American Studies, you kind of either go into literature or history, depending on what you write your dissertation on.. And so I did a more historical dissertation, so I moved into history. But I had I taught one year at Hobart College up in upstate New York before I finished my thesis and somebody was on sabbatical up there, so it was a one year appointment. They wanted me to stay on again to take the place of another person who is [was] on sabbatical. But I realized I'd never get my thesis done if I didn't just just concentrate on that alone. So I came back to Providence in '61-'62 and finished my thesis and then went on the job market that year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1523.61,1578.469"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e So when you got to Queens, was that like a choice you made or was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1578.84,1582.069"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it really wasn't, I was, there were a couple jobs. I knew somebody at Queens who who had been at Brown who kind of helped me get a foot in, an interview. After it was over, after I had accepted the Queens job, I had a call from Ohio State offering me a job. But I preferred Queens. In Ohio State job -- I mean, Queens, I was teaching four courses then. Now, your standard load is three, and Ohio State was seeking five courses, all the same course, so anyway, Queens was the better job. So it's really, I mean, except for that one at Hobart, it was my very first job, and I just came from getting a Ph.D.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1582.22,1624.7"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e I see. It's, I understand that during the beginning here in Queens, as far as the student body goes, it was primarily Jewish students. When from the time you started here, to the time you retired, what, what changes have you seen over the years as far as faculty and students?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1625.98,1640.435"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e OK. The students at the time when I came, I would say like, 85 percent Jewish, 85 to 90 percent, maybe 10 to 15 percent Irish or Italian Catholic. And then there's very, a few Protestants. But, and then very, very few minorities. And then there was an effort to get more minorities. I was on some committee that was trying to get it. This guy Sol Resnick was very important in the way, when the SEEK program came, to find minority students. He would go to the playgrounds and and hang, and, you know, tell them about the possibilities now. But even when you had that SEEK program in the beginning, it still was kind of a separate program. It wasn't as if you were getting a lot of black students or Latino students in your classes at first. And it really wasn't until the Open Admissions started --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1644.014,1713.07"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e When was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1713.071,1713.764"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e That year, '70, about, early '70s, I think it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1714.352,1723.579"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e And was admissions free?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1723.85,1724.96"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Admissions were still free. It changed when the New York City budget crisis of 1976.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1725.92,1730.08"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e OK.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1731.46,1731.922"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e That's when they instituted tuition. And, and so the student body did begin to change. The first impact was not to get more minorities, but to actually get more Italian and Irish Catholic students in and.then you begin to get more [minorities]. But it's still, even today, if you take the proportion of African-American students in Queens compared to average in the county, compared to African-American students at Queens, it's less than in the county. But then you have other groups beginning, I don't know, 80s and 90s. I mean, it just increases more, the Asian students coming in. The Greek students, since open admissions, they were they, they were always a solid minority, but they grow. And so you have this, you know, and then, I guess, since 2000 or late, late '90s and 2000s, beginning, beginning to get more Muslim students. And so you have the tremendous, I mean, Queens County is what, the most diverse, or second most diverse county in the country. And the college, I think, is the first or second most diverse college, campus college campus, four year college, I don't know about community colleges.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1731.923,1787.241"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1817.825,1818.825"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e In the, in the country, so you have this tremendous, that's, that's one tremendous change in the student body and the other of course is that when I started, students didn't work, in 69, most of those students weren't working. They say, why don't you have more, my friend Mike Wreszin, especially when he retired, he was always really,  said, why aren't the other students protesting more? And I said, Mike, it's a different student body. These students are working 35, 40 hours a day [a week]. You know, your number of married students, you know, it's a, it's not, it's not a student body that, that's middle class. And, and, and a lot of them have tremendous responsibilities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1819.24,1863.029"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e You have mothers and fathers that go here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1863.359,1864.874"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah,  and they may feel the same way as you do, but it's very much more difficult for them to, so, so the student working, and that changes also, in your courses. I mean, you still want to have high standards. You still want your students introduced into a variety of reading, but you can't assign the same reading list that you did when I came. I mean, I could assign the same kind of reading list that the students at Brown were getting in the undergraduate core courses and, and expect that most, not to say all, but most of them would read most of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1865.27,1908.17"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1908.43,1908.934"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e But you can't do that with any realistic because students are working so much. I mean, so you, and people complain that the standards have gone down. Well, the reading lists have gone down but, and I don't know if the standards have gone down dramatically, maybe, maybe we made some adjustments. But, but so, what do you expect?  You know, it's because of the time constraints is different. This student body has changed, I think, because more students [work]. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1908.935,1947.83"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e OK.  In terms of the quality of the student body. I think you, the top of the student body today is just as good as it was in the beginning. But what you have is students who are very often very  bright, just as bright as the ones who are on top. But they have more needs. They need, especially I think with the writing. They, uh, some of them are, you know, first generation, some of them, English is a second language. But some of them is just that they don't get as much writing as as maybe they used to in high school. I mean, I have students who sometimes you find they have never taken an essay exam in high school, where before I think it was standard that they had taken essay exams. So they come with greater needs. It's not that they're not every bit as bright, but they just have greater needs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=1948.45,2007.839"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e And from what I understand that as far as social studies and English goes [go], it's the, the, I guess the need or the quality has diminished. I think, I think other things as far as math, sciences, they look more, they [are] looked at more and there's a demand for them more, as if people graduate from college. And also going back as far as you know, like people, us, the younger body being active politically and socially, do you think that there's a dramatic change because of perhaps technology? You know, you have everything you have is in the palm of your hand. And you have had movements like, for example, in Egypt, you had the protest. And it's, there's been, there's been, they were they were able to get together because of things like Twitter, the social networks. So do you think that the youth, do you see the difference?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2007.86,2062.199"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I think, I think, you know, more organizing is done outside of, you know, in terms of, of technology than used to [be done]. I mean, like Occupy Wall Street. They did a lot, bringing people there, through technology. The question is, I guess, suppose, is why don't you, why don't you have more like Occupy and, and, you know, you have various organizations, Move On, and all these that do a lot of fund raising and in getting members to, over the, over the net. I don't know if that explains the student body. I do think the obligations really affect students because you know you're coming. If you're coming from a poorer background, you may feel the same way about the system, but you also want, you also want to get some security and, and what, what I think has happened also in terms of the humanities and social sciences, is students are going into more practical things. Back in the 60s, there were two professors of accounting at one time, it was part of the economics department. Then it became a separate department to start out with, two full time faculties, a few adjuncts. Now it's one of the bigger majors. Computer science is one of the bigger majors. The business track in economics is big.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2063.09,2154.73"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2155.1,2156.1"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e So people, students, you know, are looking for practical things and, and, and practical things sometimes are not as compatible with looking at the society as critically as when we had the protests.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2156.18,2173.969"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, and myself, I'm a history major and I aspire to be a college professor at some point. So. So, yeah, I was I just wanted a take on, you know, how do you feel? The subject matter. And people wanted to pursue a career in history. You know, if it's even worth it now just because of what you say, the practicality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2174.82,2193.86"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it's not a good job market. There are people in the profession who feel that students shouldn't be encouraged to go to graduate school because it's, the job market is so bad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2193.9,2208.38"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2208.53,2209.069"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e But my feeling is this. You should go realistically, you should understand the situation, but if you want to be a history professor. It's better to try, and if that doesn't work out, then you go into something secondary, library science or something. It's better to do that than go into accounting and wake up at 40 and feel you've spent 20 years of your life being miserable. And then it's too...Then there's, you know, one of the things in graduate students that works against you is age.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2209.07,2247.26"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2247.66,2248.66"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e They don't like to say there's ageism, but there is ageism. Graduate students [programs] like to get you early and train [you]. You, you know, and, and so, my feeling is, if that's your real ambition, you should try it. And then, you know, if you can't, if you can't, if there's no jobs and well you, then you may try something more practical. It's easier, let's say, to move from a history Ph.D. program into, let's say, a library or a masters in fine art, or you know, in public, public administration or something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2248.76,2293.399"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2293.47,2293.995"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e At 40, than it is to move from accounting into a history of Ph.D. program at 40.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2293.996,2300.842"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Let's go back to the faculty. I'm sure in this day and age, you see there's a variety of diversity as far as gender.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2301.91,2315.719"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2315.79,2316.529"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e People of different nationalities. Was that always the case in the beginning for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2316.53,2321.09"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e There was a sense, at Queens, when I came, there were no minorities. There was one hired as a lecturer. There are not many lecturers, it was a position then. He was a lecturer for a few years. Uh, there was [were] two women in the history department and then one retired, so there was one woman until the early 1970s. And then there was a big, trying to push. I was on a department committee then that helped, that did the hiring, and we had several positions open and we were considering some women. And the chairman said [unclear], he said, 'oh, they'll just get married and have babies and drop out.' I said to him, I said, 'you can't say that!'","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2321.303,2384.777"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2385.39,2385.929"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And he backed down, and we hired three women that year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2385.93,2389.189"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e For the history department.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2389.2,2390.77"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e For the history department, But in 1976, when the New York City budget crisis came, basically, there was a retrenchment, which meant a lot of faculty were fired and basically the last hired... And so these three women lost their jobs in '76. I was about to go on sabbatical in '76-'77, seven years since '69, every seven years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2391.869,2418.01"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I went to the president that time and I said, I said, we just hired these three women. I said, you know, we'll go back to the same. He made provisions out of a special fund of his own, not out of the regular budget. He made provisions to keep them on one more year, but they did lose their jobs next year. And then, then with the budget crisis, nobody was being hired.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2419.37,2448.56"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2448.92,2449.424"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And nobody was hired until the mid 1980s, in, when the Greek students demanded somebody in Greek history. And they went to the Provost and everything. And then, so they were given a line in Greek history. And that's when we hired Professor Elena Frangakis-Syrett, if you've had her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2449.425,2471.713"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e  I have had her, I've had her for a year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2473.26,2475.363"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e That is when she was hired, because the Greek students kind of protested, said, they. I mean, they didn't, weren't demonstrating, but they were bringing a lot of pressure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2475.438,2484.601"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e She's the chairperson now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2484.9,2485.845"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, acting chairperson while Professor Allen's on leave. So they demanded that, and that's when we hired, so we had added a woman, and then we added a woman, later, in German history, our German historian had retired. This was the late 1980s. And then there was a kind of a hiatus in hiring and then the hiring picked up in 19, late 1990s. Now, at that time, because they wanted to hire more minorities, the president had established a set aside program that, that aligns [assigned] faculty lines reserved for minorities. Some departments didn't want to participate because they felt that was favoritism, because the faculty, you know, you weren't going through the competing against other faculty with it in the normal way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2485.846,2553.0"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2553.19,2554.19"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I felt, you know, but we have this need for it. And so I and the majority of the faculty on the committee, voted to participate. A couple of faculty members resigned from the committee because they didn't believe in it. But I used that [those] lines and we were able to hire a woman originally in South Asian history, an Indian, an Indian woman, South Asian history, and also hired a minority in, well, I guess it was African-American history.  And, and then, then there was a period of a lot of lines.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2554.23,2579.22"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e We were getting nice lines each year. And I was chair now. And, and we hired women, but the regular way, you know, competing. Now, Professor Allen was one of the early hires, in Ancient. I don't think a woman [??unclear] in ancient history. But then, the woman in German history had moved on to NYU. We had lines in German history and lines in various things in the normal way. We didn't, we didn't necessarily go out of our way to hire women, only giving them a fair chance. But a lot of women are now coming into the profession, going to graduate, many more are going to graduate school. I think something like now half the people in history,graduate program [are] women, I'm not sure of the exact statistic. So now they were coming out and, as a result, we hired Professor Sneeringer, Professor Chazkel, and then later on, Professor Celello. Oh, Professor Richardson, you know. So the department now, we lost a lot of members in the budget crisis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2598.11,2671.489"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2671.73,2672.359"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Before the budget crisis, we had about 40 members. Now we have about twenty, or mid-twenties, I think it is. About half of them are women. Minorities, we haven't done as well that the college hasn't done as well. But we haven't done it. We have, but we have, you know, Professor Sen and Professor Cooper-Owens now, Professor Richardson. So we have more than we had, and the college, you know, hasn't done as well as they had liked. But, but it's a much more diverse. And, of course, you know that Italians are considered a minority by the city in terms of hiring. That goes back, before I came there was a charge that Queens was discriminating against Italian professors. I think as one of the kind of settlement to all of this, they classified Italians, Italian-Americans as a minority in terms of hiring at the City University. And of course, we have done very well there, with Professor Vellon and Professor Giardina and Professor Celello, you know. So we are a much more diverse department, especially with women, and that's one of the big changes. The other big change, I forget if I mentioned that, the thing was, when I came, we were just beginning the emphasis on publishing. And now it's a big emphasis on publishing as a way to get tenure and promotion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2672.36,2778.8"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2778.86,2779.669"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Teaching still is very important, but publishing is much more important than when I came.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2779.67,2783.217"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, so Professor Warren, if I could ask you about Jon Peterson and you working with him as being a chair.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2790.63,2797.34"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Jon Peterson was a historian of immigration, of American business and of urban planning and his big book was a history of America, of planning in the United States. It won a number of .prizes. He ran for chair against me in 1989, something like that, I can't remember. And the ballots went 20 ballots tied. We weren't really antagonistic toward each other, we were actually personal friends, social friends. But his supporters were, a number of his supporters felt that I'd be too radical dating back to the debates over Vietnam. And a number of my supporters felt that, not him so much, but a lot of his supporters were too conservative. And so the solution was after 20 ballots, because if you're, if you can't reach a conclusion and the president can appoint a chair, nobody wants the president to appoint the chair, so we decided that we would split the three term as chair, the job was three years. We would split it. I would take it for a year and a half, he would take it for a year and a half. And then after that, he remained chair, ran again for chair, took it for three years. And then I became chair and being chair. But during those year and half, those years we split, a lot of the old antagonisms disappeared. They realized that I wasn't going to overturn all department. And and I guess my supporters realized that it wasn't going to be just the same old conservative things and go back to the '60s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2798.789,2912.165"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e So a lot of the departments, that we were in many ways a much more unified department emerging out of there. And Jon continued you know, after I became chair, continued to serve on the Personnel and Budget Committee and [I] worked with him, often ask for advice on things until he retired. He retired, I think in the early 2000s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2912.94,2943.51"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Is he still alive?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2945.56,2947.4"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e He's still alive, he, he hasn't come the last, usually comes into the Honors party, sometimes if we have a departmental function, he'll come in. He does a lot of traveling. He and his wife are  garden enthusiasts, and they visit gardens in Japan and France and everything. He also does some amateur painting along with his wife.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2947.739,2972.939"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Interesting. All right. How about the name Frank Calandra? Does that ring a bell?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2973.575,2981.692"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Calandra Institute?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2982.42,2983.42"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e No. Frank Calandra. Does that ring a bell?  Does that ring a bell? Once again, Professor [Wintermute] asked me to ask about him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2984.81,2996.429"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Frank Calandra...I know the Calandra Institute, which is, it was at Queens College at one time, but now it's down in the city. It's the Italian American Institute, you'll go to Italian American studies, I don't, I'm not sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=2997.306,3013.704"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e All right, we can skip that, that's fine. Also, another thing Professor [Wintermute] wanted me to ask you is about famous ancestors that you might be related to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3014.65,3025.198"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e You had mentioned it maybe before, with Peterson, something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3027.11,3030.36"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e I just have here, how was working with him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3032.13,3034.41"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, but after that I thought you mentioned something about.  Well, maybe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3034.65,3043.179"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e I think those. I don't know. I just asked about Calandra. But yeah, he answers it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3043.75,3049.039"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I guess he's talking about supposedly I'm -- General Gouverneur Warren, who's a hero of Gettysburg, is related. And I believe he is related somehow but, but he's, he's not, not my grandfather. I don't think he's my, he's not a great uncle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3049.05,3072.57"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e I saw a picture. There is a similarity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3074.73,3076.069"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e There's a lot of similar, genetic similarity. And, and my, my grandfather's father, which was what the generation of Gouverneur Warren, was born, my grandfather was born in the same area that that, that Gouverneur Warren lived and all these Warrens lived in in Putnam, I think it's Putnam County around Cold Spring, New York, Garrison, New York. So there's Warrens all over. And I'm, I assume that it's some kind of cousin or something. But my daughter has tried to, you know, go on Ancestry.com, and she's found, one time we didn't know who my grandfather's father was. Now we seem to have found him, he was a person who lived in Cold Spring and apparently owned, I don't know, ran an inn, but basically he ran the ferry that took people across the Hudson River to West Point. So he wasn't historically important but I think there is a relationship. And because of the genetic, people, there's a statue of Gouverneur Warren, at, oh what's the big park in Brooklyn, Grand Central, the Grand Army Plaza, right near the big park in Brooklyn.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3076.59,3159.829"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3161.69,3162.362"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Anyway, there's a statue of him and some people have noticed it. And the other story is that when my son was about 2 or 3, we were at Gettysburg, and before we was, before we'd seen anything, they showed a movie and they showed him, he was sitting on my wife's lap, and General Warren comes across on a horse, and my kid's 3 years old and blurts out \"Daddy!\" 'cause he saw apparently some resemblance. So I think there is a connection, but it's not the direct one that I thought it might. My father mentioned something about Gouverneur Warren toward the end, but my father never was really interested in family history, and my aunts never told me about him, so I don't know what exactly it is, but that's what Bobby's referring to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3162.363,3215.499"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I know, because I did see once again, I saw he he pulled out the picture and I said, wow, it's uncanny. You guys have.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3215.92,3221.539"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e The high cheekbones.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3221.54,3222.77"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e And even the hair. Yeah, that's interesting. Moving on to the next question, can you tell me about loyalty oaths, during your time here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3222.8,3232.113"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, very little. When I first came, all faculty members had to take, I think it was called the Feinstein's [Feinberg] oath.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3234.97,3243.73"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3244.01,3244.535"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Where you said you didn't belong to any subversive organizations. so everybody had to take it in, you know, I didn't like the oath, but I took it. You needed a job. And anyway. Yeah,there was. But I don't know the year that that disappeared, but it vanished after not too long afterwards.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3244.536,3268.296"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e That didn't affect you at all in regards to your political views?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3268.61,3271.137"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it was gone by the time of Vietnam and there was, nobody seemed to pay attention to it. There had been earlier at Queens, before I got here, in the 50s, there had been, McCarthy, several professors were fired. And actually, I organized, co-organized a conference on McCarthyism at Queens College, at about, oh, 2004, 2005. One of the professors, a very elderly woman back then, and a number of  people talked about that, at Queens and also in the country. And so there had been, there had been episodes after that, where the head of the Communist Party was not allowed, in the student body. So a student organization had brought him to speak, but the president refused to allow him to speak and I think a short strike, this was, I think in the late 50s, well, it could have been, I think probably the late 50s. So there had been issues over communism and McCarthyism earlier. But when I came, it was pro forma, really. I had taught, the year I had taught, I mentioned, at Hobart, I had to take the same oath, and we kind of took it with crossing our fingers behind the back. Nobody paid attention to it. But so it really, really, I think ceased to be a significant issue. I mean, there were certainly conservative professors on campus who may not have approved of radicalism, but the oath itself didn't play a role.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3271.22,3391.07"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e OK, no problem. I'm going to turn to another question here. As far as Queens College itself goes as an institution, as far as CUNY goes and SUNY and then, you know, yes, state universities versus colleges, how do you see Queens College overall as an establishment of higher education, do you feel that it's adequate or has it become adequate as the years have progressed since you since you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3391.61,3424.429"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think adequate, certainly. I mean, if, if, if we got more funding, I think we could do even a better job. I think it plays a very important role. I mean, I believe in in public education. And, uh, I think Queens is one of the better institutions of public education, both within the CUNY system and I mean, Queens, Hunter, Brooklyn. I mean, they all do important work. And I think Queens, let's say public universities at most states. It's the state system. And there are all these branches, we have that too, but we also have this CUNY system. I don't know, I don't know if there is an equivalent in the country. Maybe it is San Francisco,  University of San Francisco. I think may be public. I mean. But so it's not that common to have the city system and the state system, too. But all of them, all the public play a vital role because, you know, the elite colleges. I'm not, you know, I have nothing against, a couple of my kids went to elite colleges, so I'm not, I don't say anti-private college. But I say I think that, you know, the elite colleges only serve a tiny proportion of the population. And if you're going to have a[n] educated citizenry, which was originally, let's say, the ideal of, of, of Jefferson, one of his better ideas, not slavery; one of his good ideas, an educated citizenry, you have to have a public education. So I believe in, I believe Queens does a good job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3427.3,3495.949"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe it could do a better job if it was funded better. And one of the sad things is that attacks upon public education are going on. You know, attacks about the tenure system, attacks on teachers in general, in the public school teachers, the public schools fail, it's the teacher's fault, not taking account all the various social and economic problems. Of course, we can do better jobs. But but you can't do it unless you support it. And then, what's happening now is really tragic in many ways because it's hurting. I mean, this idea of a student as a,  if a public school doesn't do well, the idea that we take money from them. Well, if it doesn't do well, it may need more money because it's tremendous [unclear]. I mean, I've talked to students who are teaching in some of the public schools. I had one, this goes back a number of years, I had a student teaching at Grover Cleveland who had, you know, students coming to class who hadn't had breakfast. And so she would bring in fruit for them. And teaching under tremendous problems. And the idea that you're going to succeed if you're, if you're, if you don't succeed, you're a bad teacher. It doesn't follow. So anyway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3541.23,3630.089"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, following up on that question then both, how do you view the future of Queens College in the next 10 to 20 years?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3631.56,3638.149"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it depends a lot on the political climate. I think. I think. I think it will continue to play a role. I think it will continue to be a good, one of the better public schools. But, if, if the trend continues to be kind of dumping on public education at the secondary and the college level, it won't really be able to fulfill its ideal, its goals, as well as it should. On the other hand, if the climate changes and, this has to do not only with colleges but just, you know, investing in public services, investing in railroads, investing in and fixing up our highways, decrepit, I mean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3638.25,3687.329"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3687.33,3687.855"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Embarrassment. I was just talking -- I'm going to physical therapy on my arm in one of the centers, and he said, if you drive on 95 [the Long Island Expressway], you can't drive any place without a pothole any time of the year. So we have... Back in the 50s, one of the books I mentioned, the class I taught, it was John Galbraith, wrote a book called The Affluent Society, and what he was talking about is private affluence versus public poverty. We have all these, not that we, he didn't recognize the amount of private poverty we had or didn't focus on that. But he was talking about, you know, the middle class, upper middle class enrichment, three cars and two televisions and all of this stuff. And meanwhile, our colleges or university, our hospitals, are underfunded.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3687.92,3737.32"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3737.321,3737.846"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e And so if we begin to really invest in all of the public services the way we should, I think Queens will benefit and be able to really do even the job it's doing much better. But if it doesn't, I don't think it'll disappear, I don't think, it will just be a constant struggle. And that does lead to demoralization. You know, for instance, right now, the faculty at Queens hasn't had a contract in, what is it, five years? Six years? And the governor is the basic stumbling block. And anyway, if you don't, you know, and so a lot of faculty get demoralized and then... It shouldn't affect teaching, and I don't think for the most part it does, I think most faculty, you know, separate that. But it's, it becomes harder. So.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3738.466,3792.64"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e And do you, as far as the political climate goes, as of right now, you have Donald Trump and Bernie Mac and Hillary, I'm sorry, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton. I think that, do you, do you think if, say, someone like Bernie Sanders won -- he talks about, you know, universal free, universal health care. But if, if, I don't know if one of his topics is making colleges free, but do you think that would be an incentive for students to look at CUNY in a higher regard if it, if there was free admission or is it just, you know...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3795.37,3836.179"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know if they're looking. I, by in other words, I believe it should be free like it was when I started. I'm not, you mean that they would they would appreciate the education more, or they would just think it was a better school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3836.42,3854.559"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Or both.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3855.18,3856.18"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not sure. I can't tell whether they regard, but I think it would be a step forward so that students who are now, who are now working so many hours, which, and not devoting as much time often as they should to studying, would be able to concentrate, maybe eliminate or reduce certainly the amount of hours they work because they are not having to pay their tuition and they would devote more to their studies and come out with a, you know, even better education.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3858.41,3899.3"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3899.47,3900.47"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the sociologists a number of years ago did a study on how many hours student work worked and how many hours they devoted to studies. Well, they they were working 20, 30, sometimes 40 hours a week. And the amount of work studying outside of class was very small.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3901.07,3921.345"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e All right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3921.92,3922.879"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I can't remember the statistics, but if you add free tuition, I'm not saying some, students might still have to work, family obligations, but they might have to work less than some students might not have to work and they could [unclear]. So that would be, in that sense, I think it would be great for the education, whether the students would think it would be a better college. Well, maybe, because they might, they might be, their assignments might be more, you know, thorough. They might be able to read an extra book or two, I mean, that always helps. So I, but I can't, I can't judge. I mean, because some students feel, if you don't pay for it, it's not worth anything, you know, because they're cynical, you know, everything costs something. So if it's free, it's not that good. But it doesn't follow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3922.88,3973.13"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Yeah. No, that's very true. That's a good point. So you as as a professor and you're still, you still teach here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3973.35,3979.194"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Every other semester, as an adjunct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3979.796,3980.888"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e So as far as your teaching methods go. Have they changed drastically or are you still using the same method as far as I know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3982.76,3990.829"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, they haven't. I don't know if they changed drastically. I. Certain things that I've tried to incorporate more discussion as I've gone on. But part of it was when I when I first started our survey courses now, we, we think we sometimes have survey courses are large because they have fifty students. Well, you were teaching survey courses back in the 60s with a hundred students. Eighty, a hundred students, and very difficult to have a discussion with eighty, a hundred students. It's hard sometimes to have it with 50 students. You know, some students don't pay attention to which student speak. But but I've tried to incorporate more in it. And that goes hand-in-hand with trying to assign more documents, original documents, and get the students to discuss the documents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=3991.01,4047.46"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e So I think I've assigned more documents in the last 10 or 15 years than I did before. Seminars always with discussions. In the seminars, when we first started with the colloquium, I think we did, not only me, but did a lot more with long research papers rather than a series of shorter papers, or middle-sized papers. I don't think we probably do as much and I probably haven't done when I've taught the colloquium, you know, not that I'm doing it now, but in my last years. I probably didn't do as much with long research papers, and there's a number of reasons for that, and some people, I didn't do it, some people gave it up because there was so much plagiarism and they didn't want to go through the rigmarole of looking everything up. I think I didn't do as much because I wanted them to do a little more reading in the class, if you do a lot more reading in class, and then a big research paper then so if you do research papers, usually the bulk of your reading is on the paper. And then what do you do in class?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4051.09,4140.779"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you can discuss methodology and discuss how you do research up to a point, but I like to  discuss a topic a little more and have them read about the topic. So I did usually more shorter papers but the essence and discuss them. So, always with seminars, I try to have the discussion. I think when I started out, there were more students going on to Ph.D. work in history. Now, it's not that many, if they're going on, they're going on to go into public, public schools or they're going into law school. And if you're going into Ph.D. programs, it's good often to know a little more historiography, that is how different topics have been interpreted. And so I used to do a lot of historiography, in the advanced undergraduate classes and even in some of the, in some of the survey courses and in the graduate course, I still do it because I still, I still believe that, that, students should understand that history is a matter of interpreting, it's not just recording facts. It's --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4141.77,4224.71"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4225.07,4225.679"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Putting them into some framework. So I still do that, but I don't, I don't probably run through, you know, five different historians who have interpreted the Civil War Reconstruction. I gave them a couple of interpretations of Reconstruction, but I don't go over them, all of the books that, about it.  If you're going on if you think you're going on to graduate school, it's good to read some of those books. But so I still do it, historiography, I still do interpreting. That's still important, but I don't probably do as much of names, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4225.68,4272.27"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure. So do you. Do you think your methods are, they're still a part in [unclear] the path,  the students relate to them. Can they do? Is it easy for them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4272.34,4284.486"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I usually get good response. Now, I don't do I mean, I show some movies in class, but I don't do the technology that the, that a lot of professors use, they, they've come up with it, they've trained. I mean, I learned, I learned to [use] the computer when I was writing my third book. I didn't, when computers came out, I didn't know anything about it. I did. I had my wife show me how to turn it on. And I only learned to use the computer when I was writing. This is in the 1990s. So I didn't, I didn't didn't come up with all that technology. And I'm not good at it. And I think if you're good, if you're not good at it, you shouldn't, what, cause I've seen some, you know, I observe as chair, I observe a lot of the teachers, and I've seen adjuncts and non- adjuncts and I've seen some teachers with a piece of chalk hold the class enraptured just as much as some teachers who use technology brilliantly. I mean, they, they have the photos, they use it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4284.64,4354.89"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Others, I mean, people who just do PowerPoint, and that's it. I mean, I don't see any benefit of that. You could put an outline on the board. But if you if you use it, you know, in terms of using images from the period and photos from the period and things like that, I've seen, you know, Peter Connoly Smith College, Professor Sneeringer, I've seen them use it. They're doing great. I don't, but I that's because I don't really know how to use it, and I don't think I would use it well. And so in that sense, I, probably, some people look at my teaching methods as old fuddy duddy, you know, old fashioned.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4355.34,4400.819"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Archaic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4400.85,4401.85"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Archaic. But it's still you know, I usually, you know, when I teach the 1920s and 1930s, the class can get as high as 50, but it's usually about 40. And it varies. Sometimes you have a of a class that's completely responsive and, you know, everybody's excited and talking, and I mean that when you ask me, the questioning about some remembrance of some good, picking out some good students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4402.2,4421.653"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4431.347,4432.347"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e I said in my recent classes, I mentioned three students. They all came from this one class. It was fantastic. They were involved, you know, intellectually and emotionally. They would get excited about the readings. And then you'll have a semester where it's like pulling teeth, you know, because they're not, they're taking the course, maybe not because they do, as in 20s and 30s, fitting in their time schedule or what have you. But usually I get, uh, I think of a fairly good response from the students for feedback. One of my colleagues who I went to graduate school with, one of his professors in graduate student [school], said, 'dammit, if you can turn on five students in a class, four or five students in a class of 40, you've done your job.' Doesn't mean the other students won't get something out of it. But if you really turned them on, you're not going to turn everybody on so that they're going to love history and read it and something, they'll take the course, get something out of it. I don't know. Maybe five is too few. But it's still you know, it's. I mean, when I look at it, when I look at the department as it evolved, I look at what I think about your [my] career, I think I've been a good teacher. I don't think I've been the great, one of the great teachers. I mean, I'm  I like to think I've been a good teacher, a very good teacher. I like to think that my treatment of students has been superior.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4432.8,4532.219"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4532.46,4533.239"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe sometimes superior to some of the great teachers who, who are great teachers in the classroom, but are impatient with students outside of class.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4533.24,4541.76"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e But I mean, when I look at, you know, I don't want to get into names that, you know, the students [professors], the students [professors] who are so charismatic in the classroom who, you know, you could have not five students or 15 students, but having the whole class, you know, come out of the class excited. I don't put myself in that category. But there are some teachers, but they're not, they're rare. Most of us, you know, turned a number of students on, do a good job with the majority of students. And there are still some students who will never, who are just there because they have to take it or what have you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4542.25,4592.949"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e That's usually the case. Well, thank you very much for your answer, Professor Warren. That's all the questions I have for you today. It's been enlightening and with a lot of information. So I just want to thank you once again for this opportunity. And I really appreciate it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4594.34,4613.869"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Frank Warren:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you. I mean, I'm glad to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4614.71,4617.829"},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276/transcript/18359/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003e Santiago Lozada:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you so much. Right, Professor Warren. Thank you once again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96276#t=4618.07,4622.359"}]}]},{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96301","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 5 of 5 - frank3BIG.mp4"]},"duration":259.72639,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/096/301/small/frank3BIG.mp4_1597853112.jpg?1597838714","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96301/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96301/content/5/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-queenslibrary.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/096/301/original/frank3BIG.mp4?1597838712","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":259.72639,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://queenslibrary.aviaryplatform.com/collections/150/collection_resources/28774/file/96301","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]}]}